Kaurs In Punj Piarey

[N30S1NGH]

Would you say that modern day Sant Babas should not adminster Khanda Da Amrit because they are non martial?

If this dualistic mode exists, then why not give it to everyone?

Should men who appear to be non physically fit, unable to engage in battle, and lack martial vigor be denied Khanda Da Amrit?

not really.

Again there are two ways to look at khanda da amrit - from warrior perspective that khanda amrit is meant for warriors/dals.

second way to look at it is not from historic angle but from spiritual angle which is- via khanda amrit- jaiagaso gets naam amrit.

Both are valid. Khanda amrit was given in bhai dya singh ji samparda because of their dual mode existed from seena-basina.

I even heard in the contary of namdharis claim that nirmales were the first one to give amrit to women.

If both are valid, and both can be seen from historical and spiritual angle why are you making the distintion?

If Khanda da Amrit can be given to pasifist non martial Khalsa, then why have the distintion of having just purely naam amrit and kirpan ka amrit?

Why cannot a woman or man take Khanda Da Amrit and still be non martial?

If someone takes Khanda Da Amrit and is a pacifist non martial khalsa, would you say it is acceptable for them to not adopt the kakars which are martial items?

There was no distincation, all i m saying other outer intiations like- kirpan da amrit were given to women back in time.

Yes off course woman or man take khanda da amrit and still be non martial from spiritual angle , its just that i havent found any historial account to back up this.

If someone takes Khanda Da Amrit and is a pacifist non martial khalsa, would you say it is acceptable for them to not adopt the kakars which are martial items?

Martial items like- one foot kirpan?..pacifist non martial khalsa still adapts kakars, i m sure you seen neck wali kirpan. they dont say no because its maryada given by panj pyares.

[Guest Narinder Singh]

I've heard many outrageous claims on this post without any references whatsoever, please provide them.

And where's Bilja Singh when you need him?!

Fateh.

[N30S1NGH]

I've heard many outrageous claims on this post without any references whatsoever, please provide them.

And where's Bilja Singh when you need him?!

Fateh.

All bijla singh ji will give you is claims after tat khalsa came in proving that its puratan...lol. If tat khalsa which is give or take 130 years old is puratan then god helps sikhs..lol.

But again I like to hear what he says. May be he have done khoj deeply in this topic than any of us who are seeing starling cover up discoveries.

[sikha]

Did any of the Bhagats recieve Khande di pahul? no, but they were still mukht. Bhai Gurdass mentions muslims having merged with God, did any of these recieve Amrit from the Gurus ? no.

the inition of Khande di pahul is a initiation into a warrior elite, which is also why Guru Maharaj added the sword and the sipahi to make them warriors.... the fact that most "Khalsa's" of today are men with fat bellies and have a lousi health condition, that they know nothing about chivalry and how to swing a sword or use a gun shows that the panth have completed forgotten the purpose of creating the khalsa, and have put Khande di amrit initiation down to the level of christian baptism, which is not respected at all by most christians.

some rehatnamas written many many years after 1708 seem to indicate that the Charan di pahul from panj pyare were still active during the period after 1708 which might suggest that initiation into the "Sant" aspect of religion was charan di pahul, and initiation into the warrior elite sant sipahi was the Khande di pahul which at the time was only allowed for men.

Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Khaneya, Mata Sahib Devi, Mata Sundari,.. none of them took amrit from Khande, but they have porbably taken Charan di pahul amrit from Maharaj and lived the lives of Sant...

[Guest Hardeep_S_Khalsa]

I hope no bibi listens to our dear brothers namstang, gurbar akaal or sikhi. Every man/women must take amrit, to atleast achieve salvation.

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

yes every man/woman must take amrit

but only 5 singhs should do panj pyare seva

[Guest Narinder Singh]

:wub:

(Still waits for references to all of these claims made in order to even consider them a possibility)

Fateh.

[Balait_da_Sher]

Right, lets bring the original topic on track. The topic was about whether women could be in panj pyare or not. I believe that they can as way before amrit, Guru Amardas ji had apointed 52 women to spread gurus teachings. So if women could be in authority at that time why couldnt they be 250 years later?

The only reason i can think of is that, given the status of women at that time, do you guys really think that women would get up and get on the stage in front of all men?

My question to those opposing beebiya in panj pyare is "What is WRONG with women in panj pyare".

The answer should be in that format, not in "because all panj pyare were men".

What is WRONG with women in panj pyare

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Right, lets bring the original topic on track. The topic was about whether women could be in panj pyare or not. I believe that they can as way before amrit, Guru Amardas ji had apointed 52 women to spread gurus teachings. So if women could be in authority at that time why couldnt they be 250 years later?

The only reason i can think of is that, given the status of women at that time, do you guys really think that women would get up and get on the stage in front of all men?

My question to those opposing beebiya in panj pyare is "What is WRONG with women in panj pyare".

The answer should be in that format, not in "because all panj pyare were men".

What is WRONG with women in panj pyare

Nothing, people can change what they like, its up to them. Guru Judges. :TH:

But to say its always been like this and that when clearly it hasn’t is that right?

isn’t it better to say “it may have been like that but WE want it like this now” that’s more honest. it may not be right but its more honest.

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

the physical roop of panj pyare was 5 tyaar bar tyaar singhs

which is why if a singh has a limb missing, he is unable to do seva, because he has not in the correct form

a singhni therefore, cannot do panj pyare seva

it was 5 singhs so it should remain so