Oldest Surviving Rehat Manuscript (1718/1719 Ad)

[Guest Narinder Singh]

Ok Narinder. We should still study our history. I'm not claiming it is the infallible word of God. Some sort of code of conduct existed with the early Khalsa, what wrong with researching that?

Nooo i totally agree with you veerji, thats not how i meant what i said. I'm just responding to what i read and its actually quite interesting regardless of whether its true or not. :wub:

Fateh.

[B4ND4]

Can anyone scan and post the real version??

May be "Freed" bai can help us here.

[Guest Akirtghan]

can u find the original language this was written in? i dont trust the translations

[dalsingh101]

I don't trust them either Akirthghan. Sadly the original is not openly available.

I think it was you I had words with before about my feelings of being let down by Sikh intellectuals who fail to provide accessible translations for stuff, leaving it to goray.

In all fairness, there are some efforts being made and I now have access to Bhai Gurdas's vars and most of the Dasam Granth. One thing I like about Desi translations is that they usually contain the original Gurmukhi next to the translation (and frequently a transliteration).

[orono]

He who blows out a lamp [instead of extinguishing it with his fingers],

Why would this be an issue?

[dalsingh101]

He who blows out a lamp [instead of extinguishing it with his fingers],

Why would this be an issue?

My mother said it might be related to notions of impurities in the breath.

[Bijla Singh]

I would like to see the original text. Rehatnama and Tankhanama written by Bhai Nand Singh Ji is still available today. Poetry and Gurbani written 300 years ago in Gurmukhi contains many words that are still used today. This is why Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji are widely read and discussed in Sikh Panth whereas Kabits are hardly mentioned because of their language.

He who blows out a lamp [instead of extinguishing it with his fingers],

Why would this be an issue?

Bhai Chaupa Singh was a contemporary of Guru Sahib and one time he saw Guru Sahib blow a lamp using a cloth. He wrote it down in his rehatnama stating that Guru's way is the best. Sometimes if a person is not too careful, brining mouth too close to the lamp to blow it out carries the risk of long beard catching fire. This is what I have read but regardless of what method was chosen it had nothing to do with rehat or kurehat. Bhai Chaupa Singh wrote the rehatnama observing what Guru Sahib did. Later it was tampered with by santanis but one can easily tell which is Gurmat and anti-Gurmat. Vaars, Kabits, Bhatt Vahis, Hukamnamas, Dasam Bani, Eye witness account of Bhai Jeevan Singh Ji and some other documents very well give a clear picture of rehat. All these sources were used to compile the rehat in 1932.

[dalsingh101]

The absence of any reference to panj kakkar is also strange.

[Bijla Singh]

The absence of any reference to panj kakkar is also strange.

They are clearly mentioned in Bhatt Vahis and account written by Bhai Jeevan Singh. Both were written before 1718. Vaar 41 of Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji also mentions rehat and kakkars.

The manuscript was discovered at Guru Nanak Dev University in Amritsar by Dr Jeevan Deol who is a Canadian born expert on Sikh Manuscripts (currently based in London). It has been dated to the 1718/1719 AD period which is virtually a decade after Dasmesh Pita's passing.

We will have to see the text in Punjabi and then evaluate it. Do you know if the text could be found in any book? who wrote it? Could you also give more detail about Jeevan Deol i.e. if he has written any books, his background, education etc?

Dohra of "Raj Karega Khalsa" can be found in Gohaj Pothi which is available at Hazoor Sahib and also includes other Dhoras written during Guru Sahib's time. Gurbilas Ph 10 by Sukha Singh also supports the idea of only Khalsa living in the world and destroying mosques and temples.

ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਗੋਰ ਦੇਵਲ ਮਸੀਤਾਂ ਗਿਰਾਯੰ । ਤੁਹੀਂ ਏਕ ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਾਯੰ ।

Graves, Hindu temples and Mosques be destroyed and that only Eternal, Hari is to be worshiped.

ਮਿਟੇਂ ਵੇਦ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਠਾਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ । ਮਿਟੇਂ ਬਾਂਗ ਸਲਵਾਤ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕੁਰਾਨਾਂ ।

That all Vedas, Shashtras and Puranas to be destroyed. Destroy prayer call, circumcision and Quran.

ਸਗਲ ਜਗਤ ਮੇਂ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਗਾਜੈ । ਜਗੈ ਧਰਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਸਗਲ ਦੁੰਦ ਭਾਜੈ ।

In the whole world will roar the Khalsa Panth. Dharma will flourish and all else ‘Dund’ (Hindu and Islam) will disappear.

ਦੁਹੂੰ ਪੰਥ ਮੇਂ ਕਪਟ ਵਿਦਯਾ ਚਲਾਨੀ । ਬਹੁਰ ਤੀਸਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਕੀਜੈ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨੀ ।

There is too much corruption in the two religions (Hindu and Islam). The third Panth (Khalsa) is made prominent.

ਕਰੋਂ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਪੰਥ ਤੀਸਰ ਪ੍ਰਵੇਸਾ । ਜਗੈਂ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੋਧੈ ਧਰੈਂ ਨੀਲ ਭੇਸਾ ।

The Khalsa Panth is established. Sikh warriors flourish in the world, blue in their wearing.

[dalsingh101]

Some background on Jeevan Deol

http://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staffinfo.cfm?contactid=1280

http://www.bl.uk/about/policies/endangeredarch/deol.html

Although this means little to some, he is fairly well educated (Cambridge Phd and MPhil) and is considered a Panjabi manuscript expert. He was the one who discovered and dated the old bir of Guru Ji in the British Library. http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/discussion....33;OpenDocument

He is quite involved in preserving manuscripts http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/node278.html#P20_1034

ਦੁਹੂੰ ਪੰਥ ਮੇਂ ਕਪਟ ਵਿਦਯਾ ਚਲਾਨੀ । ਬਹੁਰ ਤੀਸਰਾ ਪੰਥ ਕੀਜੈ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨੀ ।

There is too much corruption in the two religions (Hindu and Islam). The third Panth (Khalsa) is made prominent.

Man, we are having so many of our own issues with corruption now, this is hard to imagine. Did you see the map of religious populations posted here earlier?