Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Khalsa04

Sikh Gurus And Their Wives [guru Ke Mehal]

Recommended Posts

Khalsa04    1

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Ive not been on this site for a long time but I have a burning question that I would like answered. why did some of our Gurus have more than one wife?

I know im not the ideal Sikh but when talking about Sikhi to my friends, I always get questioned why Guru Gobind Singh ji had two wives and also I was reading a storybook for children, it had profiles of all our great Gurus and im sure a few other gurus also had two wives

when asked about Guru Gobind Singh ji I told my mates what I had heard, that Mata Sahib Kaur ji was married to Guru Gobind Singh Ji but did engage in sexual activity, and Guru Ji declared her as the mother of Sikhi [which is definately true]

so please could someone with a bit of gyaan answer this question for me

coz im sure as Sikhs we aint permitted to have more than one wife

then as my friend puts it, why did the Gurus contradict their teachings?

Im just a moorakh in search of knowledge

bhull chuk maaf

wjkk wjkf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalsingh101    410

"coz im sure as Sikhs we aint permitted to have more than one wife

then as my friend puts it, why did the Gurus contradict their teachings?"

Firstly, I don't think the Gurus rigidly defined marriage practices. Yes, one wife is the norm but this is not inflexible i.e. say your wife is unable to bear children.

Then the other side of the coin pops up - if the man is infertile can a women take another husband.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my understanding of it:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji had ONE wife another Bibi wanted to marry him but he refused and instead made her the mother of all of Khalsa and not his own wife.

if im wrong then im sorry

bhull chuk maaf

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KKV    0
This is my understanding of it:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji had ONE wife another Bibi wanted to marry him but he refused and instead made her the mother of all of Khalsa and not his own wife.

if im wrong then im sorry

bhull chuk maaf

excl.gifexcl.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is my understanding of it:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji had ONE wife another Bibi wanted to marry him but he refused and instead made her the mother of all of Khalsa and not his own wife.

if im wrong then im sorry

bhull chuk maaf

excl.gifexcl.gif

like i said if i have got it wrong then im SORRY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Panjab radio's presenter Gurdeep Singh, who is very knowledgeabe about gurbani and gurmat had realesed an audio cd quite some back for clarifying this whole confusion about Guru Gobind Singh Ji's wives. I haven't got my hands on the cd yet but if someone wants the cd can call the radio and ask them for one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
soormah    0
This is my understanding of it:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji had ONE wife another Bibi wanted to marry him but he refused and instead made her the mother of all of Khalsa and not his own wife.

if im wrong then im sorry

bhull chuk maaf

d_oh.gif yes thats the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mutheeaa    1
This is my understanding of it:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji had ONE wife another Bibi wanted to marry him but he refused and instead made her the mother of all of Khalsa and not his own wife.

if im wrong then im sorry

bhull chuk maaf

d_oh.gif yes thats the truth

It's truth however ppl who r in love themselves.......cud understand this(doesn't include me)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below is another article on this issue:

Guru Gobind Singh Ji And His Three Wives

Why did Guru Gobind Singh have more than one wife? How many marriages did Guru Gobind Singh have? The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings regarding more than one marriage of the Guru and presented other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In the Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with a marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, engagements were held as soon as one had passed the baby stage. Even today, engagements at 8-12 years age are not uncommon in some interior parts of the country. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in-laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. Dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at the time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anandpur, according to the customs, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided in Lahore which was the capital of the Mughal rulers, who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore along with Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of inconvenience to the Sangat, young and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anandpur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place, a couple of miles to the north of Anandpur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. People going to Anandpur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marriage was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had the reason to feel like that because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Punjab to give a new affectionate name to the bride by her in-laws. Mata Jeeto Ji because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a cause to the outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above.

There is one more very important function in the life of the Guru and the Sikhs. It took place in 1699 when the Guru founded the Khalsa Panth. For preparation of Amrit, he took a Khanda and a Bata (bowl) and asked Mata Sahib Kaur to bring Patasas (puffed sugar) for adding to the water in the Bata. Thus, Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur jointly particpated in preparing Amrit. Alongwith firmness like steel, weetness is another great character of the Khalsa, gifted respectively by Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur to them. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa.

Again, people not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual father but not hte physical father of the khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the physical wife of the Guru Gobind Singh. Because of their ignorance of the Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Kaur had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion at Anandpur, the Guru said that he could not have another wife because he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her stay at Anandpur but without accepting her as is wife. The question arose, as every woman desires to have a child, how she could have one without being married. The Guru said, "She will be the mother of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Kaur with preparing Amrit by bringing Patasas. It is, therefore, ignorant to consider Mata Sahib Kaur as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Below is another article on this issue:

Guru Gobind Singh Ji And His Three Wives

Why did Guru Gobind Singh have more than one wife? How many marriages did Guru Gobind Singh have? The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings regarding more than one marriage of the Guru and presented other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In the Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with a marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, engagements were held as soon as one had passed the baby stage. Even today, engagements at 8-12 years age are not uncommon in some interior parts of the country. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in-laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. Dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at the time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anandpur, according to the customs, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided in Lahore which was the capital of the Mughal rulers, who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore along with Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of inconvenience to the Sangat, young and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anandpur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place, a couple of miles to the north of Anandpur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. People going to Anandpur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marriage was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had the reason to feel like that because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Punjab to give a new affectionate name to the bride by her in-laws. Mata Jeeto Ji because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a cause to the outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above.

There is one more very important function in the life of the Guru and the Sikhs. It took place in 1699 when the Guru founded the Khalsa Panth. For preparation of Amrit, he took a Khanda and a Bata (bowl) and asked Mata Sahib Kaur to bring Patasas (puffed sugar) for adding to the water in the Bata. Thus, Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur jointly particpated in preparing Amrit. Alongwith firmness like steel, weetness is another great character of the Khalsa, gifted respectively by Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur to them. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa.

Again, people not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual father but not hte physical father of the khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the physical wife of the Guru Gobind Singh. Because of their ignorance of the Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Kaur had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion at Anandpur, the Guru said that he could not have another wife because he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her stay at Anandpur but without accepting her as is wife. The question arose, as every woman desires to have a child, how she could have one without being married. The Guru said, "She will be the mother of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Kaur with preparing Amrit by bringing Patasas. It is, therefore, ignorant to consider Mata Sahib Kaur as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

d_oh.gifd_oh.gifd_oh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bundha    572

Rather than so called ‘scholars’ with letters as long as you arm after their names but with no Naam abyaas I would trust more the actual existence of a Gurdwara to commemorate the place where Mata ji was cremated or a source such as Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha where the relevant entry is as follows:

"Jeeto Mata: Lahore niwasi Harjas subhikeeye khatri di sputri, jis da viah 23 harh samat 1734 (1677) nu Guru Gobind Singh ji naal Anandpur pas Guru ke Lahore hoia. Mata ji di kukh ton Baba Jujhar Singh ji, Baba Zorawar Singh ji ate Baba Fateh Singh ji janme. Mata ji da parlokgaman 13 assu, samat 1757 (1700 AD) nu Anandpur hoia. Aap da dehra Agampur vidman hai. Mata ji da shudh naam amrit sanskar ton pichhon Ajit Kaur Nam si."

Translation:

Jeeto Mata: Daughtero Harjas Subhikhi Khatri, resident of Lahore, who was married on 23 Harh, sambat 1734 (1677 AD) to Guru Gobind Singh ji at Guru Ka Lahore near Anandpur. Mata ji gave birth to Baba Jujhar Singh, Baba Zorawar Singh ji, and Baba Fateh Singh ji. Mata ji left for heavenly abode on 13 Assu, Sambat 175 at Anandpur. Her Dehura (monument at cremation site) exists at Agampur. Mata ji's correct name was Ajito and after Amrit Sanskar it name was Ajit Kaur.

Another reference regarding Mata jeeto ji's name remaining Jeeto ji till the last moment when she passed away in 1700 AD is 'Guru Kian Sakhian' written by Sarup Singh Kaushish in 1790 and based on the Bhatt Vahis (genaological records kept by Bhatts) he inherited from his Bhatt ancestors. These Bhatt ancestors were those whose writing is included in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Also among these ancestors were Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Mati Das and many other members who laid down their lives for sixth Guru ji in battles and also remained with the subsequent Gurus and were prominent warriors in tenth Guru ji's sikhs. Sarup Singh collected details from these Vahis (genealogical books) that he had with him and even during the twentieth century some of these are now in the possession of Punjabi University Patiala known as Bhatt Vahis.

This book was recently edited and published by Piara Singh Padam in 1986. The relevant quote is from the Sakhi about tenth Guru Ji's temporary move to Nirmohgarh leaving Anandpur. From Nirmohgarh Guru ji moved to Bisali at the request of Raja Salahi Chand of Bisali who was devoted to Guru ji. After some time Guru ji came back to Anandpur. So the narrative continues:

"Guru ji ne Anandpur pahunch ke prithme sarey kilion ki murummat kraee, raja Salahi Chand ki koshish se sare aman amaan hoi gia. Anandpur nagari ke charon disha main sikh sangtan ane lag gayeean. Rajion ne Guru ji ki aan ko maan leea. Anandpur gaon ke charon disha Khalsayee raj kayam ho gia. Parja ko sukh ka saah ane laga.

Isi saal sammat satran sai satwanja (1757, 1700 AD) Pokh privishte chhe veervar ke dihun Mata Jeet Kuir ji Gurpuri piana kar gaye. Satguran ne in ka daah sanskar Agampura nagri ke najdeek jai ke kar deea. Agle divas sat poh shukarvar ke dihun Mata Jeet kuir ke namit sri Guru Granth ji ka paath rakha gia jis ki samapati satarmi te pokh mase baee Shanivar ke dihun teeje pahir hoee."

Translation:

On reaching Anandpur first thing Guru Ji did was to get all the forts repaired. As a result of Salahi Chand's efforts peace descended all around. From all around Anandpur Sikh Sangats began arriving. The Rajas accepted Guru ji's superiority. Khalsa rule got established (in villages) around Anandpur. The residents (of villages around Anandpur) breathed a sigh of relief

During this very year Sambat 1757 (1700 AD) in the month of Poh (Dec-Jan)dated 6 on Thursday Mata Jeet Kuir ji passed away. Satguru ji cremated her near the Agampur village. Next day on 7 Poh Friday the reading of Guru Granth was begun in the name of Mata Kuir ji that was completed on the 17th day, the 22 Poh, Saturday in the afternoon.

If we assume that Mata Sundari was none other than Mata Jito ji itself whose name was changed at the time of her marriage then there should be no Mata Sundari ji surviving after this date. However, we find her very much alive even 40 years later. She was in Delhi during 1730's sending Hukamnamas to Sikhs that are still available as evidence.

Mata Sundari Ji's father was Bhai Ram Saran a Kumarav Khatri of Bijwara in present Hoshiarpur district and marriage took place on 4 April 1684

Marriage with Mata Jeeto Ji July, 1677

Marriage to Mata Sundri Ji May, 1685

Birth of S. Ajit Singh Ji to Mata Sundri Ji November, 1686

Birth of S. Jujhar Singh Ji to Mata Jeeto ji March,1690

Birth of S. Zorawar Singh Ji to mata Jeeto Ji 1697

Birth of S. Fateh Singh Ji to Mata Jeeto Ji 1699

In the days of the Gurus, society was such that it was not considered as something wrong to have more than one wife, as Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji had two wives and Maharaja Ranjit Singh had many wives.

Today Society has changed the rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rather than so called ‘scholars’ with letters as long as you arm after their names but with no Naam abyaas

This is the reason why your knowedge of Sikhism is so poor!!! :umm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AK-47    21

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

From my recollection this topic has been debated many times in the past on the forum, please try searching it as this will probably just cause another bout of arguments.

However i would just like to post that akalipurkhkifauj, ur id contains the following

"Physical death I do not fear, death of conscience is a sure death. "

-Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale

sant jarnail singh ji and damdami taksal believe that guru sahib had 3 wives, and that guru hargobind sahib ji, and guru har rai sahib ji etc had more then one wife. if this is wrong, and they were 'arrogant' as per the article u posted then sant ji had already 'died' a death of the conscience. so you are killing sant ji urself ohmy.gif )

we can make up all the excuses we want nowadays to make ourselves comfortable with the gurus actions. i personally am very proud of the gurus and nothing they did emabarasses me. this includes having more then one wife. but if u feel that this is something wrong and indecent then well u need to deal with it in ur own mind i guess. but as bundha has said, the evidence is there. either ur guru as porran, complete and perfect ... or dont. and ps no we are not meant to copy everything guru sahib did. maharajh gave amrit to 5 pyareh HIMSELF, we would not copy that. guru ji cut off their heads and rejoined them, we would not do that, guur nanak sahib ji did various amazing things on his travels with bhai mardana eg, retransforming bhai mardana body, travelling to other worlds, spinning mecca, squeezinf blood and milk from food etc etc. we DO NOT do these things... ie the guru does some things which we do not. this does not make the guru a hypocrite, anyone who says this is hunkari to be able to think that they should be able to do what the guru can!! are we disciples or the teacher??!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×