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Dont Judge People Based On External Form


dalsingh101
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I wanted to post this because some people on another thread called something like "don't judge monas" were very honest about their family background ie them keeping kesh and their fathers drinking, smoking and stuff.

Well, I am from the reverse situation where my father is now amritdhari and I don't keep kesh. My point is this. My father is still one of the most heartless, stupid and cruel men I have met (and I have been about). So those guys who are pushing for guys to take amrit to solve all these problems we are having in the community are just plain simple. It is not a quick cure for all our problems.

I'm not saying all amritdharis are like this and I know some that are solid, non judgemental and have helped me so much in my life I could never repay them. But my point is that in at a least one case I know the amrit hasn't helped a guy in anyway and actually just makes him 100 times worse in my eyes. Plus their are loads of people like this filling almost every gurdwaara committee in the duniya. What is being done about this

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chang-aa-ee-aa buri-aa-ee-aa vaachai Dharam hadoor.

Good deeds and bad deeds-the record is read out in the Presence of the Lord of Dharma.

karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door.

According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away.

(Japji Sahib)

An experience of one bad apple does not mean all apples are sour. We are all responsible for our own shortcomings

ghat ghat kai antar ki jant bhlai burai ki pir pachant

He, Who is inner Knower of all hearts, knows the inner opinions of all, good or bad

(Kabio Bach Bainti Chaupai)

No matter how we portray ourselves, Sri Akal Purakh knows our inner intentions whether honourable or not.

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I wanted to post this because some people on another thread called something like "don't judge monas" were very honest about their family background ie them keeping kesh and their fathers drinking, smoking and stuff.

Well, I am from the reverse situation where my father is now amritdhari and I don't keep kesh. My point is this. My father is still one of the most heartless, stupid and cruel men I have met (and I have been about). So those guys who are pushing for guys to take amrit to solve all these problems we are having in the community are just plain simple. It is not a quick cure for all our problems.

I'm not saying all amritdharis are like this and I know some that are solid, non judgemental and have helped me so much in my life I could never repay them. But my point is that in at a least one case I know the amrit hasn't helped a guy in anyway and actually just makes him 100 times worse in my eyes. Plus their are loads of people like this filling almost every gurdwaara committee in the duniya. What is being done about this

life is wierd if you have parents with bad habits it can turn you off from those things for life and in the end make you better person BUT if you have parents who look like sikhs but act badly it can make you rebel or whatever...............i know its not black and white as i have just said but its still wierd.

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Guest Narinder Singh
I wanted to post this because some people on another thread called something like "don't judge monas" were very honest about their family background ie them keeping kesh and their fathers drinking, smoking and stuff.

Well, I am from the reverse situation where my father is now amritdhari and I don't keep kesh. My point is this. My father is still one of the most heartless, stupid and cruel men I have met (and I have been about). So those guys who are pushing for guys to take amrit to solve all these problems we are having in the community are just plain simple. It is not a quick cure for all our problems.

I'm not saying all amritdharis are like this and I know some that are solid, non judgemental and have helped me so much in my life I could never repay them. But my point is that in at a least one case I know the amrit hasn't helped a guy in anyway and actually just makes him 100 times worse in my eyes. Plus their are loads of people like this filling almost every gurdwaara committee in the duniya. What is being done about this

Amrit is a blessing veerji, and only a few blessed souls get the chance of tasting that Amrit. However, i think a lot of those individuals have forgotten how fortunate they are. pray.gif

Fateh.

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personally, i think alot of it has to do with how alot of people tese days treat amrit like it's some magic potion.

amrit is new blood, it's supposed to vibrate within each and every vein of your body, it's not a one-off ingest and have magical effects.

but in order for it to flow through the veins, the proper atmosphere has to have been created to promote that. You can't plant a seed in a pile of mud and expect a beautiful plant with huge, blossoming flowers to grow.

There IS effort involved, and that's the most important part. Amrit is NOT (or at least, not ALWAYS) this drink that by taking it, you turn into a saint. No one turns into a saint, not without any kamaaee or effort. WE Must be careful to not treat amrit like it's a swig from a shot glass. "jus take it man. everyone's doing it". Harsh analogy? probably.. but that's what it seems like.

The problem is that when people read this, they're gonna say "oh so now you'er saying amrit isn't important". And that is a huge issue in our current generation. so focussed on only one way being right and all others being wrong. I personally respect if you disagree with me, but i also suggest that i'm not wrong. that doesn't mean that those who think otherwise ARE wrong. Amrit is by far, extremely important. but it takes kamaee to make the most of it, and just having taken it isn't a guarantee that you're a great human being.

so whlie amrit is the most sacred, most holiest, most divine gift god has ever given us, we have to be willing to accept it and make the most of it, and if we aren't, then tough luck that it'll have the monumental effects that it has on someone who IS ready to be cultivated.

I await the bashing hehe :lol:

Vaheguru.

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personally, i think alot of it has to do with how alot of people tese days treat amrit like it's some magic potion.

amrit is new blood, it's supposed to vibrate within each and every vein of your body, it's not a one-off ingest and have magical effects.

but in order for it to flow through the veins, the proper atmosphere has to have been created to promote that. You can't plant a seed in a pile of mud and expect a beautiful plant with huge, blossoming flowers to grow.

There IS effort involved, and that's the most important part. Amrit is NOT (or at least, not ALWAYS) this drink that by taking it, you turn into a saint. No one turns into a saint, not without any kamaaee or effort. WE Must be careful to not treat amrit like it's a swig from a shot glass. "jus take it man. everyone's doing it". Harsh analogy? probably.. but that's what the attitude seems to be.

The problem is that when people read this, they're gonna say "oh so now you'er saying amrit isn't important". And that is a huge issue in our current generation. so focussed on only one way being right and all others being wrong. I personally respect if you disagree with me, but i also suggest that i'm not wrong. that doesn't mean that those who think otherwise ARE wrong. Amrit is by far, extremely important. but it takes kamaee to make the most of it, and just having taken it isn't a guarantee that you're a great human being.

so whlie amrit is the most sacred, most holiest, most divine gift god has ever given us, we have to be willing to accept it and make the most of it, and if we aren't, then tough luck that it'll have the monumental effects that it has on someone who IS ready to be cultivated.

I await the bashing hehe :lol:

Vaheguru.

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I don't know why you keep posting the same topic over and over when you have failed to answer any of my questions. In Sikhi, Amrit is the first step. If an Amritdhari person does not keep rehat at all and does not do seva, does not love others and respect others then he is not a Sikh. There is much more to do after taking Amrit. Your posts clearly show that you have no idea what Sikhi is all about. Guru Sahib has passed the judgement in Gurbani.

ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਖਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਆਪਣੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਭਾਈ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਵੈ ॥

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will. One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished.

Hence it is clear that only by accepting the hukam of the Guru one becomes a Sikh. Walking according to your own will means doing what you wish i.e. cutting hair, drinking etc.

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੈ ਕਾ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਇਸੀ ॥

Obeying the Order of His Will, he becomes acceptable, and then, he obtains the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.

Once again, Guru Sahib says that one who follows the hukam is accepted in the house of Waheguru. There are numerous other quotes but perhaps you and your dad need to look at jeevans of true Sikhs like Bhai Veer Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh, Baba Jarnail Singh, Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh and many others.

Now, what about those who are not Amritdhari or guru-wala whom Gurbani calls “Niguray”?

ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੀਣਸ੍ਹ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਸਟਣਹ ॥

That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਰਾ ॥

Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation.

ਸੋ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ ਜੋ ਮਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥

One who has no Guru, dies over and over again, only to be re-born. One who has no Guru continues coming and going in reincarnation.

Are you gonna tell Guru Sahib not to judge? He has clearly said that a person without Guru is cursed and will go to hell. One becomes a guru-wala by taking Amrit and only then the naam or Gurmantra is obtained. Is there a way for monay to become guru-walay without Amrit? No. Gurbani is clear that without Guru no one will ever achieve salvation.

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਮਝ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨ ਸਿਧਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Without the Guru, there is utter darkness; without the Guru, understanding does not come. Without the Guru, there is no intuitive awareness or success; without the Guru, there is no liberation.

ਮਤ ਕੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥

Let no one wander in doubt in the world. Without the Guru, no one can cross over.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਇਹੈ ਜਨਾਈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਭਾਈ ॥

Says Nanak, God has inspired me to know this. Without the Guru, liberation is not obtained, O Siblings of Destiny.

Previously I have provided many references from historical records to prove that monay are not Sikhs. One may not agree with those but Gurbani is above all and one who ignores Gurbani is certainly not a Sikh. You seriously need to study Sikhi and Gurbani. You may be able to find a place to "fit in" among some people but in the house of Guru you will never find any place unless you take Amrit and follow the hukam. Bhai Dalla had to become Bhai Dall Singh to get a place in Guru's darbar. Guru Sahib bestowed his image to Khalsa as his true Sikhs. I suggest you find sangat of true gursikhs, start doing paath and slowly do ardaas to get gift of Sikhi and naam simran. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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a(n)mrith peeaa sathigur dheeaa ||

I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar, given by the True Guru.

avar n jaanaa dhooaa theeaa ||

I do not know any other second or third.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Raag Maaroo

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I don't know why you keep posting the same topic over and over when you have failed to answer any of my questions. In Sikhi, Amrit is the first step. If an Amritdhari person does not keep rehat at all and does not do seva, does not love others and respect others then he is not a Sikh. There is much more to do after taking Amrit. Your posts clearly show that you have no idea what Sikhi is all about. Guru Sahib has passed the judgement in Gurbani.

ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਖਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਆਪਣੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਭਾਈ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਵੈ ॥

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will. One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished.

Hence it is clear that only by accepting the hukam of the Guru one becomes a Sikh. Walking according to your own will means doing what you wish i.e. cutting hair, drinking etc.

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੈ ਕਾ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਇਸੀ ॥

Obeying the Order of His Will, he becomes acceptable, and then, he obtains the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.

Once again, Guru Sahib says that one who follows the hukam is accepted in the house of Waheguru. There are numerous other quotes but perhaps you and your dad need to look at jeevans of true Sikhs like Bhai Veer Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh, Baba Jarnail Singh, Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh and many others.

Now, what about those who are not Amritdhari or guru-wala whom Gurbani calls “Niguray”?

ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੀਣਸ੍ਹ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਸਟਣਹ ॥

That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਰਾ ॥

Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation.

ਸੋ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ ਜੋ ਮਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥

One who has no Guru, dies over and over again, only to be re-born. One who has no Guru continues coming and going in reincarnation.

Are you gonna tell Guru Sahib not to judge? He has clearly said that a person without Guru is cursed and will go to hell. One becomes a guru-wala by taking Amrit and only then the naam or Gurmantra is obtained. Is there a way for monay to become guru-walay without Amrit? No. Gurbani is clear that without Guru no one will ever achieve salvation.

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਮਝ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਨ ਸਿਧਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Without the Guru, there is utter darkness; without the Guru, understanding does not come. Without the Guru, there is no intuitive awareness or success; without the Guru, there is no liberation.

ਮਤ ਕੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥

Let no one wander in doubt in the world. Without the Guru, no one can cross over.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਇਹੈ ਜਨਾਈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਭਾਈ ॥

Says Nanak, God has inspired me to know this. Without the Guru, liberation is not obtained, O Siblings of Destiny.

Previously I have provided many references from historical records to prove that monay are not Sikhs. One may not agree with those but Gurbani is above all and one who ignores Gurbani is certainly not a Sikh. You seriously need to study Sikhi and Gurbani. You may be able to find a place to "fit in" among some people but in the house of Guru you will never find any place unless you take Amrit and follow the hukam. Bhai Dalla had to become Bhai Dall Singh to get a place in Guru's darbar. Guru Sahib bestowed his image to Khalsa as his true Sikhs. I suggest you find sangat of true gursikhs, start doing paath and slowly do ardaas to get gift of Sikhi and naam simran. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Who died and made you a big authority on all things Sikh Bijla?

Regarding amrit - When and if it will happen - it will. All people like yourself do is actually put people off.

I think the only thing you have provided is a very narrow interpretation of Sikhism. So do you feel especially "liberated" now? You should be careful because it just seems like your on some Talebanic like mission to show the rest of us the "right path"

Plus my main point is that you can take amrit and still be a big a s s h o l e. So I think people should straighten themselves out as much as they can BEFORE taking it. Or the Khalsa becomes full of jerks.

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    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
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