Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Amandeep Kaur

Need Genuine Helpful Advice

Recommended Posts

firstly did this mahapursh tell you the sant marg as described per gurbani, and did he tell u the rasta to vaheguru as per bani: poocho santo mera thakur caasa, secondly the 'fit' as you describe it can easily be controlled, you just have to knw the jugti, and as i stated b4 u get even more anand.

Since ive been attending the sangat never has an incident occured where the sangat or bhai ajit singh ever made others feel over numbered, this isnt some dera where some 'mahapursh' sits in a seperate room and ppl touch his feet, this is sach the parachaar every1 is welcome and any1 can openly ask any question as long as its naam and gurbani related only.

you are talking of other gursikhs leaving there bodies, but what about your self? Are you drinking amrit, hearing anhad shabads, doing darshan of saach. I don't believe myself to be higher then any1 else, infact im still at early 'stages' of abhyaas hence the shaking.

I would like to know where you are getting this information from about the shaking being a stage of naam.

^ if you use your logic, we were all japping gurmanter yes? not some other manter but 'vaheguru' gurmanter yes?

then how can you disagree that the shaking didnt occur from the abhyaas done? did you see any other method to allow this shaking to occur?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kh@ls@ ji, in bani our gurus, bhagats gurmukhs all told there stages - from your start to finish - how to get there - jugtis on how to meet god, logically if guru nanak dev ji didnt tell NO BODY, or even bhagat kabir for example then no1 would ever knw this path, and those ppl who want to meet god really badly wouldnt be able to.

do u even knw where a mahapursh does his assan or do you judge by the chola, as a chola doesnt make a sant - status of the mind.

Sounds to me like they don't know how to do swas swas simran properly, probably too fast and improper breathing, and are hyperventilating very heavily which is causing the fits.

^^ there were no 'fits' this is his take on what happened, he didnt even ask what was happening. and as explained b4 this is when a jeev is passing through the tats and are trying to smaah into the 5th taat which helps the mind progress.

By the Gurdwara's name and the guest chatting about stages leading to the "Nij Ghar" and some "Anhad Sabd" i knew this was a cult like the Radha soami people. Only their Baba knows this secret LOL this is why they talk about these stages.

^^ firstly there is no 'baba' here, nij ghar is our true home as explained by bani and anhad shabad...anyone and everyone is able to obtain this through abhyaas, as explained above.

the lying down ...when u let go of ur body and goto the 10sm dwaar your body goes into sunn therefore u fall back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

munjoth jee

Sri Guru Naanak Dev Jee is Waheguru. They are free from ego. We're not. Thats why we should keep our abhiyaas and kamaee gupt. I remember reading (in Bhai Rama Singh Jee's autobiography) that they were advised by a Gursikh not to disclose how much bani they read etc. Since Bhai Sahib revealed how many Sukhmani Sahibs he did each day, he could no longer do that many with ease.

Also, Gurbani tells us we should be doing simran 'aath pehar.' How is this possible if you are having a fit, or shaking uncontrollably. How do you go about your daily life?

Also what do you understand from the following tuk:

guramukh rom rom har dhhiaavai ||

Having spoken to people who attend these programs in Swindon, I have a feeling you are going to tell me this is another stage (rom rom simran). Could you possibly list all the stages with reference to Gurbani?

This whole business is very confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sri Guru Naanak Dev Jee is Waheguru. They are free from ego. We're not. Thats why we should keep our abhiyaas and kamaee gupt.

^^ you are 100% guru nanak dev ji came with the satgurus title, and he spread this akath gyan everywhere, but he also put the duties of a sikh to a gurmukh to also spread this akath katha.

I'm not sure about bhai rama singh, but gurbani guru and books are two different things. Within sikhi we only take the gurus math(thinking) not our own or another persons. But our guru is poora not adoora. To reply to your query, i can practically tell u that from my own town when we first went...there were only 3 of us and as we did our abhyaas and progressed, with the gurus kirpa, more and more and more ppl started goin with us, infact about 16+ ppl go from my town and they are all doin abhyaas now, my own grandad did sewa at the gurdwara for 40 years and his mind wasnt filled with peace, at first he was reclutent to go but when he did he himself said 'why didnt u take me b4' - why? Because he gained peace of mind, he progressed spiritually. If we kept it all to our selves then no1 would ever know and how on earth would others get this chance to do abhyaas and meet god. Why do we share our spiritual gains? To help inspire others to walk this path.

Also, Gurbani tells us we should be doing simran 'aath pehar.' How is this possible if you are having a fit, or shaking uncontrollably. How do you go about your daily life?

^^ when ur doing simran during the day your doin it in 'sum drist' - your doing ur work with ur hands and simran with ur mind, there for your not doing simran with ik-drist where your seated and trying to go into sunn. As explained before the shaking is when one is passing the tats, there are jugtis to stop the shaking.

there are 3 stages of simran jugtis: swaas swaas, swaas giraas, and rom rom. as you go further there are different jugtis, but as i am a learner and not a teacher i am unable to teach you the jugtis.

I think the main concern here is the 'shaking' as many people dont understand but dont enquire as to why its happening, then come to there own conclusions rather then finding out from either the people who experience the anand or ask bhai ajit singh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

Munjoth,

Why is it that Bhai Ajit Singh has a monopoly on all these methods and Jugtis that cause this shaking, fits, crying on the floor?

Why is it that no other Gurmukhs, Sants or Mahapurakhs from various Sampradas and Jathebandia such as Nanaksar, Nihang Singhs, Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha talk about these types of stages? For what reason is it that it is only in Swindon that all these things go on whilst thousands of Gurmukhs worldwide have reached high states through Bhagti done with Sehaj rather than convulsing and shaking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is it that Bhai Ajit Singh has a monopoly on all these methods

^^

He doesnt have a monopoly on all the jugtis, they are all daarj within guru granth sahib ji - If you want to khoj your self ofc your welcome to and find them your self. If you want to ask bhai ajit singh then he will tell you where in bani the jugti comes from and explain it to you, either way its up to you. The reason I am not explaining the jugtis is because, as stated before, i am still a learner, and doing the practical - where as bhai ajit singh has done the practical and is now explaining to others what jugtis our guru is teaching us to get out this bhav sagar.

that cause this shaking, fits, crying on the floor?

^^ you've very cleverly manipulated my previous posts and stated something that i did not say. ive explained there not 'fits', the crying is viraag as the shabad surat is broken - when you are going back to vaheguru and some1 stops you, wouldnt you cry? and the floor bit, when you leave your sareer your going into sunn, so basically your sareer is 'sleep' or 'dead' and your mind is woken up, currently we are sleeping in the trigun but thru the gurus shabad our minds can be awoken.

Why is it that no other Gurmukhs, Sants or Mahapurakhs from various Sampradas and Jathebandia such as Nanaksar, Nihang Singhs, Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha talk about these types of stages?

^^ I don't know about that and Im also not sure what you mean about 'these types of stages.' But what i can tell you is that this akath katha has been done at historic gurdwaras in india and at the thakats by bhai sewa singh tarmala. this parachaar is also happening at other parts in the world.

For what reason is it that it is only in Swindon that all these things go on whilst thousands of Gurmukhs worldwide have reached high states through Bhagti done with Sehaj rather than convulsing and shaking?

^^

You are presenting the swindon gurdwara as a cult or dera or something similar. This is not the case, this akath katha was done by our gurus, our prataan singhs, but until now had gone gupt and was started again by bhai sewa singh tarmala, he started this parchaar in india. As explained before the 'shaking' is just a jeev passing through the tats, as the singh who came down on sunday saw for himself only the gurmanter was being japped.

But i have a question for you. your referring to other gurmukhs, how do you know that they are gurmukhs? Do you know who the guru calls a gurmukh? Do you know who bani calls a sant? A mahapurkh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I'm gonna say is that anyone who thinks that this place is right for them and inline with gurmat then fine so be it. I said that I would go and look and give my opinion and I have the place in my opinion has a eerie strange cult like feeling.

^^

everyone is entitled to there opinions, i think you should of spoken to bhai ajit singh and he would of explained each and every point in detail - if you felt intimidated then you should of come to programmes held at havlok and spoken to bhai ajit singh there.

So I can understand why the topic starter was upset with their family belonging to such a cult.

^^

Im not sure why you refer to the gurdwara as a cult, a cult would be a group or a jatha; Our guru teaches us there are no groups and we all belong to saach, you ur self was there when bhai ajit singh stated that our guru breaks us away from the caste system yet we jump right back into it.

My suggestion to the topic starter is that they try to explain to their family that the strange things that go on at this place are not naam and certainly not within gurmat.

^^

I will ask the topic starter to come on this board and reply to this topic, you are saying this is not 'naam'; Do you yourself know what naam is as per guru granth sahibs teaching? You yourself had been stating that you do no naam abhyaas yet you are judging the sangat where every1 has been doing abhyaas for 2/3years.

Also try to take them to panthic programmes instead.

^^

As stated before these programmes have been carried out at panthic gurdwaras in india by bhai sewa singh tarmala.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jeee

exactly, bhai seva singh is well respected in the panth, and bhai ajit singh has learnt and teaches the same gurmat as bhai seva singh, who has backed everything up with gurbani.

munjoth pls explain about the amrit sanchar that started last april, and should be happening every year with guru jis kirpa. what level u have to be and what the punj pyare do, and pls also include how many went there for amrit and how only 88 were accepeted as they reached the right level, (punj shabadh, amrit russ and etc)

anyway hopefully munjoth will explain that. my point is that bhai ajit singh was one of the punj pyara there and was actually the jathedaar of the panj pyare. u dont realise what nindha you have done of a gurmukh like bhai ajit singh.

anyway hope u enjoyed the simran "khalsa" instead of looking around too much. p.s. bhai ajit singh would never hurt u, even if u swore at him, so there was no need to be scared. but u seem narrow minded and had already decided what u were going to make of the programme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest An Observer

"I will ask the topic starter to come on this board and reply to this topic, you are saying this is not 'naam'; Do you yourself know what naam is as per guru granth sahibs teaching? You yourself had been stating that you do no naam abhyaas yet you are judging the sangat where every1 has been doing abhyaas for 2/3years."

Just because the singh said he does no naam abhiyaas doesn't mean that this is the case for all you know he might japp naam for 4-5 hours a day. It is common not to talk about how much simran you do. In fact every singh I know downplays how much they do. These are just some of the characteristics of a gursikh. Not everyone comes onto the internet like yourself and boasts about their 'high' avashta and looks down on others. All panthic jathebandiya teach that naam is private maybe your baba should start teaching you a thing or two about nirmata and how to fight the panj chorr. If you had any kamai to begin with you would know that your ahkaar is stealing it.

I know nothing about this place but after reading your post munjoth I just felt someone needed to bring you down to earth a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

If this akath katha is so vital for sikhs on the gurus path, why doesn't ajit singh do a tour of the uk and other places to teach the right way, ppl should be allowed to make their own decisions and take away what they need. I'm alwaya suspicious of individuals who try and monopolies knowledge.....bcus kbowledge is power...and power in the wrong hands is dangerous.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

should make a dvd or write a book about the jugatis to enable wide coverage so the method can be critically evaluated by all who have an interest or a learned in the subject

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

hmmmm i thought we get NAAM and jugti from panj pyarey etc. But i checked out their site and bhai sahib is an amritdhari and since they do abhyaas on waheguru sabd i say it's fine. Even though the intention may not be, but some time these things slowly turn into some sort of cult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Dont know why Indian media is showing her as a Sikh. She is Hindu. Got this message on whatsapp ਕਿਰਨਬਾਲਾ ਉਰਫ ਆਮਿਨਾ ਬੀਬੀ
      ।। ਸਿੱਖ ਜਾੰ ਹਿੰਦੂ ।।
      ਕਿਰਨਬਾਲਾ D/o ਮਨੋਹਰ ਲਾਲ ਦਿੱਲੀ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੀ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਕੁੜੀ ਨੇ ਤਰਸੇਮ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀਂ ਦੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ,ਸਿੱਖ ਨੌਜਵਾਨ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਵਿਆਹ ਕੀਤਾ ਅਤੇ ਓਹਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਹੋਸ਼ਿਆਰਪੁਰ ਗਡਸ਼ੰਕਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਈ ।2013 ਵਿੱਚ ਪਤੀ ਦੀ ਸੜਕ ਹਾਦਸੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੌਤ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਦ ਇਹ ਫਿਰ ਦਿੱਲੀ ਪੇਕੇ ਚਲੀ ਗਈ ।
      👉 SGPC ਦੇ ਮੁਤਾਬਕ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਨਾਏ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਿਰਫ ਚਾਰ ਸਮਾਗਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੱਥੇ ਜਾੰਦੇ ਨੇ ਜਿਸ ਦੀਆੰ ਸ਼ਰਤਾਂ ਹੇਠ ਲਿੱਖੀਆੰ ਹਨ।
      👉ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂਆੰ ਦਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਣਾ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਅਤੇ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਸ਼ਰਤ ਹੈ।(ਜਦੋਂ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਔਰਤ ਆਪਣੀ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਸ਼ਰਤ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪੂਰਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸੱਕੀ) ਦੂਸਰੀ ਸ਼ਰਤ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂ ਆਪਣੇ ਇਲਾਕੇ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਿਰੋਮਣੀ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਕਮੇਟੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਦੇ ਮੇੰਬਰ ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਬਿਨੈ ਪੱਤਰ ਲਿਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਬਿਨੈ ਪੱਤਰ ਦੇ ਆਧਾਰ ਤੇ ਹੀ ਮੇੰਬਰ ਆਪਣਾ ਇੱਕ ਸਿਫ਼ਾਰਸ਼ ਪੱਤਰ ਉਸ ਯਾਤਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਦੈੰ । ਯਾਤਰੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਾਸਪੋਰਟ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ recommendation letter and bank draft ਲਾ ਕੇ SGPC ਕੋਲ ਜਮਾਂ ਕਰਵਉਦਾੰ ਹੈ SGPC ਉਨ੍ਹਾ ਕਾਗ਼ਜ਼ਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਅੰਮਬੇਸੀ ਨੂੰ ਭੇਜ ਦਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਅੰਮਬੇਸੀ ਵੀਜ਼ਾ ਵੈਰੀਫਿਕੇਸ਼ਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਲਿਸਟ ਜਾਰੀ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ ਇੱਕ ਲਿਸਟ ਸੂਬਾ ਸਰਕਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਦੂਜੀ ਲਿਸਟ ਸੈਂਟਰ ਸਰਕਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਭੇਜੀ ਜਾੰਦੀ ਹੈ no objection certificate
      ਆਉਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਦ ਵੀਜ਼ਾ ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾੰਦਾੰ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਲੂ ਨੂੰ ਜੱਥੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਸ਼ਾਮਿਲ ਕਰ ਸਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ।
      ਗੜਸ਼ੰਕਰ ਦੇ SGPC ਮੇੰਬਰ ਜੰਗ ਬਹਾਦੁਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਰਾਏ ਦੂਸਰੀ ਮੇੰਬਰ ਰਣਜੀਤ ਕੌਰ ਮਾਹਲ ਜੀ ਦੋਹਾੰ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਾਡੇ ਕੋਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਵੀ ਕਿਰਨਬਾਲਾ ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਔਰਤ ਦੀ ਅਰਜ਼ੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਈ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਂ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਕਿਰਨਬਾਲਾ ਨਾੰ ਦੀ ਔਰਤ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਫ਼ਾਰਸ਼ ਪੱਤਰ ਦਿੱਤੈ। SGPC ਦੇ ਅਧੀਨ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਜੱਥੇ ਦੇ ਮੁਖੀ ਨੇ ਵੀ ਕਿਹਾ ਮੈਂ ਕਿਰਨਬਾਲਾ ਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਔਰਤ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਕਿਫ ਨਹੀਂ ।
      ਚੁਨਾਂਚੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨਾਂ ਦੀਆ ਕਮੇਟੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਭਾਰਤੀ ਰਾਜਦੂਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਦਾਖਿਲੇ ਤੇ ਪਾਬੰਦੀ ਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ 2018 ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਕਮੇਟੀ ਦੇ ਮੱੁਖ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ ਸ੍ਰ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਵੀ ਸਰਬਸਹਿਮਤੀ ਨਾਲ ਭਾਰਤੀ ਰਾਜਦੂਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਦਾਖਿਲੇ ਤੇ ਪਾਬੰਦੀ ਲਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਸੀ ਇਸ ਗੱਲ ਤੋਂ ਬੌਖਲਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਭਾਰਤੀ ਏਜੰਸੀਆੰ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਚਾਲ ਚੱਲੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਬਦਨਾਮ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਏ ਅਤੇ ਇਹ ਅਹਿਸਾਸ ਕਰਵਾਇਆਂ ਜਾਏ ਕਿ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀਆ ਧੀਆਂ ਭੈਣਾਂ ਦਾ ਜਬਰੀ ਧਰਮ ਬਦਲੀ ਕਰਕੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਸ਼ਾਦੀ ਕਰਵਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ । ਏਜੰਸੀਆਂ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਇਹ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਵੀ ਓਸੇ ਤਰਜ਼ ਤੇ ਘੜੀ ਲੱਗਦੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਸਟਿਸ ਟਰੂਡੋ ਦੀ ਭਾਰਤ ਫੇਰੀ ਦੌਰਾਨ ਜਸਪਾਲ ਅਟਵਾਲ ਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਖਾੜਕੂ ਅਤੇ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਦਾ ਬੰਦਾ ਜੋ ਕਿ ਭਾਰਤੀ ਏਜੰਸੀਆਂ ਲਈ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਦਾ ਸੀ ਨੂੰ ਟਰੂਡੋ ਨਾਲ ਜੋੜ ਕੇ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕੀਤੀ ਗਈ ਕਿ ਟਰੂਡੋ ਖਾੜਕੂ ਅਤੇ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਜੇ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਹਿਮਾਇਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਇਹ ਖਾੜਕੂ ਅਤੇ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੇ ਬੰਦੇ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਗੋਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੀ ਹਨ । ਇਸ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਪੱਧਰ ਤੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਅਤੇ ਪਾਕਿਸਤਾਨੀ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨਾ ਦੀਆੰ ਨਜ਼ਦੀਕੀਆੰ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਰਾਰ ਪਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਦੀ ਇਹ ਨਵੀਂ ਅਤੇ ਕੋਝੀ ਚਾਲ ਹੈ ।✍AMAR SINGH SAAJAN RUDRAPUR
    • Its fine just to maan the rass. At the end of ur naam.abhiyaas session just say shukria for the rass to waheguru and do beanti to keep u in his charan.  Also if the burning/garam feeling gets too much. Start doing sukhmani sahib or at least 1 astpadhi of it then go back to.simran
    • in my humble opinion, I believe, this situation takes place,  when a sikh/disciple/Gurmukh, talks about, or refers,  to Guru Sahiban, who are Wahiguru Akal Purukh in human form. Just as a successor Guru talks/refers/ to, about His predecessor, for example Guru Angad Dev about Sree Guru Nanak Dev, or Sree Guru Arjun Dev, about  Sree Guru  Ram Das Maharaj... Sat Sree Akal.
    • I have a question about the Shabad referring to God as, " Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long." If God is formless, then why are these characteristics being referenced? Pardon me for my ignorance.
    • Yes, all 4 of these. Probably #1 the first one. In Punjab people who have a determination to be the "headman" become, variously, panch, sarpanch, councilman, mayor, MLA, MP, etc. In the West, that's often not possible, so they fight like dogs to become Gurdwara president. When you're Gurdwara president, it's more like you're president of the entire community. To prevent that, I think we should encourage organizations like the North American Punjabi Association and City Sikhs and so on.  People who have a leadership bug can go and become the local presidents of those types of associations, and be the "president of the community", meanwhile those who want to do seva can be in the Gurdwara committee.
×