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Technical Terms Used In Gurbani

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Some Technical Terms Used in Gurbani

Through the letters, comes the Naam; through the letters, You are Praised.

Through the letters, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.

Through the letters, come the written and spoken words and hymns.....(sggs 4).

The Sikh Gurus wrote Shabads in poetical-metric forms. They were then associated with various Raagas and Ghars and many other terms such as Partaal, Sudhang, Rahaaou, Pauree, Vaar, Ikpadaa, Dupadaa, Tipadaa, Chaarpade, Ashatpadee, Chhand, Ghorian and Alahunian of folk music, types of Kirtan music, Gaathaa, Funhe, Chaubole, Savayyas, Karhale, Solahe, Mahalaa, Pattee, and so on. This Gurbani Reflection will attempt to have a brief discussion of these.

RAAGAS:

Raaga — combination of a set pattern of notes — is a condition of melody, which literally means to color or to please. Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) is arranged in chapters that bear names of musical Raagas, according to the nature of the composition, the musical clef (Ghar), etc. Each of the Raagas is unique. From a music standpoint, specifically the Baanee of the SGGS is arranged and indexed according to the prescribed Raagas, singing forms, music signs/ headings and the other guidelines noted in the Baanee. Popularly known as Gurmat Sangeet, such system of Gur-Shabd Kirtan instituted by the Sikh Gurus (initially established by Baabaa Nanak) is a unique musical tradition indeed, which creates original and specific musicology. The Gurus made the Kirtan an inseparable part of the Sikh way of life. The mixture of both the Shabad and the Raagas compliment each other in that the Raaga conveys a feeling and the Shabad a message. Thus combined together both produce very potent effect and impact on the human mind and heart, invoking spiritual sentiment, concentration, discipline, longing and love for God, etc. Thus the aim of the Kirtan is to experience the inner joy (Bliss) and Sahaj (one's natural state of Being). Therefore, the Kirtan is mentioned in the SGGS to be "the support of life", "remedy against evil", "source of virtues", "invaluable gem", "ocean of bliss", "divine nectar", "bestower of salvation", and so on. Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee (who first compiled and installed the Aadi Granth at the Harmandir Sahib, was very fond of the Kirtan and the music) initiated the system of music sessions (Chowkies) at the Harmandir Sahib.

The entire Baanee of the SGGS has been classified under 31 main Raagas. They are as follows: Sri, Maanjh, Gauree, Aasaa, Gujree, Devghandhaaree, Bihaagraa, Wadhans, Sorath, Dhanaasree, Jaitsree, Todee, Bairaaree, Tilang, Suhee, Bilaawal, Gaund, Raamkalee, Nat Naaraayan, Maalee Gauraa, Maaroo, Tukhaaree, Kedaaraa, Bhairav, Basant, Saarang, Malhaar, Kaanraa, Kalyaan, Parbhaatee, and Jaijawantee.

Besides these 31 main Raagas, there are also variants of Raagas such as Gauree Guaareree, Gauree Dakhanee, Gauree Chetee, Gauree Deepkee, Gauree Poobee, Gauree Maanjh, Gauree Poobee Deeplee, Gauree Sulakhanee, Gauree Maalvaas, Gauree Maalaa, Gauree Bairaagan, Gauree Sorath, Wadhans Dakhanee, Tilang Kaafee, Suhee Kaafee, Suhee Lalit, Bilaaval Dakhanee, Bilaaval Gaund, Bilaaval Mangal, Raamkalee Dakhanee, Maroo Kafee, Maaroo Dakhanee, Basant Hindol, Kalyaan Bhoopaalee, Praabhaatee Dakhanee, and Praabhaatee Bibhaas.

Each Raaga offers a unique relationship to human moods and feelings. Another interesting aspect of Raagas is that there is a seasonal allocation as well as daily twenty-four hour time cycle allocation. For example, there are some morning Raagas, some evening Raagas, some afternoon Raagas, some night Raagas, and so on . Also, there are Raagas that are associated with seasons. For example, Malhaar and Megha Raagas, are sung in the rainy season, in the spring the Basant Raaga, etc. The reason is that human mind and heart undergo varying degrees of mood changes during a twenty-four hour time cycle as well as different seasons, therefore, certain Raagas are particularly suitable for certain time of the day and night as well as season. Dividing daily twenty-four hour timing cycle in eight Pahars and each Pahar in approximately three hour-period, the Raagas of each Pahar are as follows:

• 6 AM - 9AM: Bilaaval, Devgandhaaree

• 9 AM - 12 PM: Saarang, Suhee, Bilaaval, Gujree, Goaud, Todee

• 12 PM - 3 PM: Wadhans, Maaroo, Dhanaasaree

• 3 PM - 6 PM: Maanjh, Gauree, Tilang, Tukharee

• 6 PM - 9 PM: Sri Raaga, Basant, Maalee Gauraa, Jaitsree, Kedaaraa, Kalyaan

• 9 PM - 12 AM: Bihaagra, Nat Naraayan, Sorath, Malhaar, Kaanraa, Jaijawantee

• 12 AM - 3 AM: No Raaga specified in the SGGS. The reason could be that this is the time to sleep!

• 3AM - 6AM: Aasaa, Raamkalee, Bhairav, Parbhaatee

Unfortunately, Kirtan today has been commercialized to such an extent that most Raagees (Kirtan singers) are only focused and concerned with making quick money. This is commercialization and exploit of the faith. We all are to be blamed for this condition. Because, we do not perform Kirtan ourselves as envisioned by the fifth Guru, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Instead we hire the so called professionals to sing it for us. The results are in front of us.

Before Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee started amateur class of Kirtan singers to perform Kirtan, professional singers (like nowadays) called "Rabbaabees" used to perform Kirtan for the Sangat (congregation) and the Guru. To cut the long story short, once these "Rabbaabees" went on strike, and thus denied to sing. It was that time Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee started training the amateur class of Raagees to perform Kirtan. The sixth Guru (Sri Guru Hargobind Jee) started a new class of Raagees called "Dhaadee", who sang heroic deeds of old warriors. They thus inspired the Guru's soldiers. The name "Dhaadee" came from "Dhad", which is a relatively small handheld percussion drum.

GHAR:

It is a musical sign, used at the top of the Shabad in the SGGS. It gives a hint to Raagees as to what musical clef (beat) to sing the Shabad in. In other words, "Ghar" binds music and poetry in their metrical-form. There are up to seventeen "Ghar" mentioned in the SGGS. Musicologists have different interpretations of this term. But the consensus seems to be that it denotes the parts of a Taal (beat). Following is a list of seventeen Taals used in Indian Music with their respective "Ghar". A close observation of the following list indicates that the majority of the modern Raagees generally seem to sing only in the first three or four.

• GHAR 1 — Daadraa Taal (There is 1 Taalee* and the Beat has 6 Maatraas**

• GHAR 2 — Roopak Taal (There are 2 Taalees and the Beat has 7 Maatraas)

• GHAR 3 — Teen Taal (There 3 Taalees and the Beat has 16 Maatraas)

• GHAR 4 — Chaar Taal (There are 4 Taalees and the Beat has 12 Maatraas)

• GHAR 5 — Panj Taal Swaaree (There are 5 Taalees and the Beat has 15 Maatraas)

• GHAR 6 — Khatt Taal (There are 6 Taalees and the Beat has 18 Maatraas)

• GHAR 7 — Matt (Ashat) Taal (There are 7 Taalees and the Beat has 21 Maatraas)

• GHAR 8 — Asht Mangal Taal (There are 8 Taalees and the Beat has 22 Maatraas)

• GHAR 9 — Mohinee Taal (There are 9 Taalees and the Beat has 23 Maatraas)

• GHAR 10 — Braham Taal (There are 10 Taalees and the Beat has 28 Maatraas)

• GHAR 11 — Rudra Taal (There are 11 Taalees and the Beat has 32 Maatraas)

• GHAR 12 — Vishnu Taal (There are 12 Taalees and the Beat has 36 Maatraas)

• GHAR 13 — Muchkund Taal (There are 13 Taalees and the Beat has 34 Maatraas)

• GHAR 14 — Mahashanee Taal (There are 14 Taalees and the Beat has 42 Maatraas)

• GHAR 15 — Mishr Baran Taal (There are 15 Taalees and the Beat has 47 Maatraas)

• GHAR 16 — Kul Taal (There are 16 Taalees and the Beat has 42 Maatraas)

• GHAR 17 — Characharee Taal (There are 17 Taalees and the Beat has 40 Maatraas)

* Taalee is the pattern of clapping. Taals are typified by a particular pattern and number of claps.

** Maatraa is the beat, which may be subdivided if required.

There are many other Taals that may or may not have the same number of Taalees and/or Maatraas. For example Punajabi Taal, Chhotee Teen Taal, and Thumri all have the same number of Taalees and Maatraas as the Teen Taal. Both the Jhap Taal and Sool Phaak Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but only 10 Maatraas. Both Dhamar Taal and Chnachal Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but have only 14 Maatras. Ik Taal has 4 Taalees and 12 Maatraas as in Chaar Taal. Aadaa Chautaalaa, Bhaan Matee Taal (Chaar Taal Dee Savaaree), Jagg Paal Taal, and Jai Taal all have 4 Taalees as in Chaar Taal but not the same Maatraas (14, 11, 11 and 13, respectively). Sikhar Taal has 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but 17 Maatraas. Talwaaraa Taal has 2 Taalees as in Roopak Taal, but 8 Maatraas. Indra Taal has 6 Taalees as in Khatt Taal, but 19 Maatraas. Deep Chandee or Chaachar Taal and Jhumraa Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal, but 14 Maatraas, and so on. Evidently the Indian music has developed and expanded in such a disciplined way that it has Taals of a just a few Maatraas to many Maatraas.

Not only music, Taal also pervades every movement of the entire Creation. Days, nights, weeks, months, years, seasons, movement of the planets in orbits, constant spinning of electrons around the center of the atom (called the nucleus where the protons and neutrons are located) etc. are a few reminders.

VAAR AND DHUNI :

There are 22 Vaaras included in the SGGS, 9 of them come with distinctive assigned traditional folk musical tunes (Dhuni) of their own as noted below. Thus, they have a simple rhythm or a pattern of a folk Taal (beat) with a wider simple and emotional appeal. Vaars are not assigned with any particular "Ghar" notation. They are accompanied by "Slokas" and "Paurees", and the essence of the Vaar lies in the "Pauree". They are generally intended to produce martial feelings.

• Maanjh Kee Vaar Mahala 1 — Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni (sggs 137).

• Gauree Kee Vaar Mahala 4 — Raai Kamaaldee Mojdee Kee Dhuni (sggs 318).

• Aasaa Dee Vaar Mahala 1 — Tunde Asraaje Kee Dhuni (sggs 462).

• Gujree Kee Vaar Mahala 3 — Sikandar Biraahim Kee Kee Dhuni (sggs 508).

• Wadhans Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Lalaan Bahreemaa Kee Dhuni (sggs 585).

• Raamkalee Kee Vaar Mahala 3 — Jodhe Veere Poorvaanee Kee Dhuni (sggs 947).

• Saarang Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Raai Mahame Hasane Kee Dhuni (sggs 1237).

• Malaar Kee Vaar Mahala 1 — Raanai Kailaas Tathaa Maalde Kee Dhuni (sggs 1278).

• Kaanare Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Moose Kee Dhuni (sggs 1312).

Vaars are to be sung in appropriate Raaga and Dhuni indicated in the SGGS. For example, Maanjh Kee Vaar is to be sung in Raaga Maanjh accompanied by the Taala of "Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni". Unfortunately the art of traditional Dhunis mentioned in the SGGS appears to be dying out, and needs to be preserved by training youngsters.

GHORIAN, ALAHUNIAN AND KARHALE:

In addition to the classical music, the folk music (because of its wide appeal) is also given importance in the SGGS. In this regard, in addition to the Vaars listed above, there are some Shabads about the "Ghorian" and "Alahunian" etc. "Ghorian" Shabads are on marriage and other festive occasions. "Alahunian" Shabads are on death.

Karhale is a type of the "Chhand". It also denotes a type of folk music the camel riders sing while traveling. The Gurbani has repeatedly compares our wandering minds with the camel as well. For example, see SGGS pages 234-235.

PARTAAL:

This is also a musical sign for the Ragees. Partaal means there are different Taals (beat) for the parts of the Shabad. In other words, Partaal means the parts of the Shabad should be sung in different Taalas and tempo. In the SGGS, there are 49 Shabads in Partaal set to different "Ghar".

SUDHANG:

This is also a musical sign for the Ragees. This term appears once in the SGGS (page 369, Aasaa Raaga). Essentially it conveys direction to Raagees to sing the Shabad in its pure form. For example, when the Shabad is in Aasaa Raaga, then it must be sung in that Raaga (and Ghar).

RAHAOU:

The word "Rahaou" marks "pause", and denotes main theme line. In other words, the verse of "Rahaou" contains the basis, essence or central thought of the Shabad. Whilst, the remaining lines of the Shabad are considered an exposition of the verse of "Rahaou". That's why Raagees use it as "Asthaaee" (first or the main part of the music composition) and thereby sing it repeatedly. In some Shabads, there are more than one "Rahaou", such as Rahaaou 1, Rahaaou 2, Rahaaou 3, Rahaaou 4, etc.(for example, see Pages 26-26, 154, 96-97, 899 of the SGGS). This indicates introduction of a new thought. There is no "Rahaou" in the "Slokas". In regard to the Vaars of Bhai Gurdaas Jee, the last line of the "Pauree" is considered to contain the main thought.

IKPADAA, DUPADAA, TIPADAA, CHAARPADE, CHHAND, CH HAKAA, ASHATPADEE, SAVAYYAS:

As the name implies, "Ikpadaa" denotes the Shabads of one verse. When "Ikpadaa" shabads have two verses, they are sung as one verse. "Dupadaa" are the Shabads that contain, besides the Rahaou lines, two stanzas. "Tipadaa" are the Shabads of three stanzas. Similarly, the "Chaupade" are the Shabads of four verses, "Chhands" are the Shabads of six lines, and "Ashatpadee" are the Shabads of eight verses. "Chhhakaa" is of six Padaas. Someplaces both "Chaupade Dupade" appear together (for example, see SGGS page 185). It means that particular Shabad contains "Chaupade" following "Dupade". The "Savayyas" are the compositions of praise.

SALOKA:

A form of verse or stanza, generally a two-liner form allowing a variety of metrical arrangement.

PAUREE:

"Paurees" are a form of stanzas. They also contain the essence of the Vaars. Literally meaning ladder or rung, it is a form of stanza adopted for Vaars. They generally consist of 6 to 8 lines each. Stanzas of Baabaa Nanak's Japuji are also traditionally called Paurees. Traditionally, Raagees are supposed to conclude Kirtan with singing of a "Pauree" from Raagas Bilaaval, Kaanraa etc.

GAATHAA, FUNHE, AND CHAUBOLE:

Funhe is a form of the Chhand (for example, see SGGS page 1361). Chaubole is also a form of the Chhand (for example, see SGGS page 1363 where it has 11 verses). Gaathaa denotes composition in an ancient language (mixture of Sanskrit, Paalee and other languages). Many Buddhist scriptures are written in this language (for example, see page 1360 of SGGS).

SOLAHE:

"Solahe" is the Shabad containing generally sixteen stanzas (for example, see SGGS page 1021). They are only found in Raaga Maaroo. There is no "Rahaaou" in them. Also, they follow "Ashatpadees".

MAHALAA:

Initially called Adi Granth, the contents of the SGGS (1,430 pages) contains Baanee of the Gurus (Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Angad Dev, Guru Amar Das, Guru Ram Das, Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Tegh Bahadur, and one Sloka of Guru Gobind Singh Jee), and Hindu saints (Brahmans and Soodras) and Muslim Sufis. These 15 saints were Kabeer, Nam Dev, Ravidas, Sheikh Farid, Trilochan, Dhanna, Beni, Bhikan, Sur Daas, Parmanand, Pipa, Ramanand, Sadhana and Sain. It also contains the hymns of eleven Bhattas and Bards, they were Mathuraa, Jalap, Harbans, Talya, Salya, Bhal, Kulh Sahar, Nal, Kirat, Sadrang and Gayand. In addition, it also consists of the hymns of Mardaanaa (the minstrel of Baabaa Nanak), Raamkalee Sad by Sunder , and Vaar of Sattaa and Balwand.

The word "Mahalaa" at the top of the Shabad identifies which Guru is the author. For example, "Mahalaa 1" identifies the first Guru, "Mahalaa 2" identifies the second Guru, "Mahalaa 3" identifies the third Guru, "Mahalaa 4 " identifies the fourth Guru, "Mahalaa 5" identifies the fifth Guru, "Mahalaa 9" identifies the ninth Guru. This notation appears with the Baanee of the first five Gurus and the ninth Guru only.

PATTEE:

Literally "Pattee" means a writing board, slate or notebook (Fattee). When it appears at the top of the Shabad, it's also used to impart the Divine Teachings in the order of Varanmaalaa (alphabet), for example see page 432 of the SGGS.

— T. Singh

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Ghar actually has nothing to do with taal.

i've read it does :umm:

if not then what does it mean :cool:

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Ghar actually has nothing to do with taal.

i've read it does :umm:

if not then what does it mean :cool:

Its based on the shadaj grahm moorchana system, the system of notation that was used before the current saptak scale of indian classical music.

Confused yet?

Ghar refers to the 22 notes of this system....GuruSahib uses 17 of these 22. When there is a ghar at the title of a shabad, it means that just within that shabad, the raag with have a slight variation...meaning that its vadi (most important note) will no longer have the most priority. Instead, the ghar note will have more priority. Therefore, the ghar system in Guru Granth Sahib introduces a variation of the raag in order to render the correct mood in accordance to the message of the particular shabad.

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Ghar can't really refer to taal because within the same title, you'll have a ghar and parhtaal...so what does the kirtania follow?

GuruSahib doesnt contradict himself lol..

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Its based on the shadaj grahm moorchana system, the system of notation that was used before the current saptak scale of indian classical music.

Confused yet?

Ghar refers to the 22 notes of this system....GuruSahib uses 17 of these 22. When there is a ghar at the title of a shabad, it means that just within that shabad, the raag with have a slight variation...meaning that its vadi (most important note) will no longer have the most priority. Instead, the ghar note will have more priority. Therefore, the ghar system in Guru Granth Sahib introduces a variation of the raag in order to render the correct mood in accordance to the message of the particular shabad.

correct answer. Can the poster please correct the post as this is incorect information being given, especially to those who are new to these terms. Lets eliminate misunderstandings not create them.

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Its based on the shadaj grahm moorchana system, the system of notation that was used before the current saptak scale of indian classical music.

Confused yet?

Ghar refers to the 22 notes of this system....GuruSahib uses 17 of these 22. When there is a ghar at the title of a shabad, it means that just within that shabad, the raag with have a slight variation...meaning that its vadi (most important note) will no longer have the most priority. Instead, the ghar note will have more priority. Therefore, the ghar system in Guru Granth Sahib introduces a variation of the raag in order to render the correct mood in accordance to the message of the particular shabad.

correct answer. Can the poster please correct the post as this is incorect information being given, especially to those who are new to these terms. Lets eliminate misunderstandings not create them.

Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

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Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Give me some time to gather my sources and i will definitly get back to you.

A few more points.

Chnth or Chunt in gurbani as stated is a six lined verse. In gurmat Sangeet it is IMPERATIVE that the whole shabad is sung all in one go i.e. there is no asthaee, so for example you sing the first line as your asthaee then you sing the rest of the shabad after each line you cannot go back to the first line.

The rahao line as stated is correct, where its the central focus of the shabad and we must use it as the asthaee, because what we do nowadays is grab any line of the shabad and use it as the asthaee, when in fact what were doing is for example singing the answer before the question which makes no gramatical sence and alters the structure of gurbani.

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wow..............i didnt know that about the "rahao" line thats chardi kalah

thank u for sharing :)

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Thanks for writing these veechar on ghar. Veer gurmat sangeet jee or the other veer/bhen jee's who wrote this, could you please give me some referances so I can read up more on your understanding of Ghar. Ive never come across this interpretation of Ghar. Is this claimed by all bidwaans of gurmat sangeet? like Is there a consensus? All Gurmat sangeets books ive read have not made this point. If you could send me your sources, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

Give me some time to gather my sources and i will definitly get back to you.

A few more points.

Chnth or Chunt in gurbani as stated is a six lined verse. In gurmat Sangeet it is IMPERATIVE that the whole shabad is sung all in one go i.e. there is no asthaee, so for example you sing the first line as your asthaee then you sing the rest of the shabad after each line you cannot go back to the first line.

The rahao line as stated is correct, where its the central focus of the shabad and we must use it as the asthaee, because what we do nowadays is grab any line of the shabad and use it as the asthaee, when in fact what were doing is for example singing the answer before the question which makes no gramatical sence and alters the structure of gurbani.

Veer jee you didnt reply regarding the ghar interpretation. If you could that would be good, i was really interesting in learning more about the meaning you have made of Ghar.

Thanks

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WJKK WJKF

Firstly, let me congratulate starter of this thread who has put in a lot of effort to bring to our attention these technical terms.

I think in this day and age, it is very important that where we teach our kids Punjabi, Gatka, Sikh virtues...etc, that we also teach them Kirtan as it was originally sung, in Raags, partaals... as the Gurus did, which means understanding these terms and how Gurbani has been written - and this has been a great help.

Can I please, in all respect and fairness, add on to the following:

Quote: ''Unfortunately, Kirtan today has been commercialized to such an extent that most Raagees (Kirtan singers) are only focused and concerned with making quick money. This is commercialization and exploit of the faith. We all are to be blamed for this condition. Because, we do not perform Kirtan ourselves as envisioned by the fifth Guru, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Instead we hire the so called professionals to sing it for us. The results are in front of us.''

Veerji is right in saying that 'We all are to be blamed for this condition'.

Our knowledge of Kirtan seems to have deteriorated immensly such that if we hear Ragees singing Raags and Partaals we just dont get it and end up not getting any anand. Understanding the shabad is one thing and on top of that the Raag too? ...thats too much!

This in turn is very difficult for the Ragees as they know that if they start a Raag in a taal other than the famous Kehrwa (4 beats), 90% of the sangat leave the hall.

Over time the Ragees seem to have changed their 'style' of Kirtan to more suit the majority of Sangat. If the sangat is happy, there are chances that you can get some bheta and this would in turn help in raising your family. In any case, a Ragee has to accept what he is given after working - you dont do that in any other profession. Not all about making quick money!

Are Ragees expected not to get any money or you can give them what you want at the end? Does that raise their children, pay their school fees, other expenses?

During Guru Arjan Dev Ji's time, the Rababees were highly respected and appreciated and the Guru himself, being a great singer and having Raag knowledge/understanding second to none, was a great fan of them - highly rewarded too. Nowadays... ?

Guru Ji, in his time, unquestionably, did great things that would benefit the whole Panth. One of those was to get the whole Panth doing Kirtan. The circumstance of Rababees doing a strike (whether it was His will or coincidence) was a good opportunity to give the whole panth Kirtan Di Daat. Otherwise Kirtan would have stayed a professional and specialised thing for the Rababees.

That also helped the poor, because if you don't have any skill and you praised the Guru you will be rewarded - hence Kirtan bheta. The so called professionals you get nowadays are not professionals as they go for the bheta more than learning Kirtan the proper way.

Bhu chuk khima karni

WJKK WJKF

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Kewl thread and as Im starting out learning kirtan I will start at what is real and grow from that. (Im not going to bury a potato and expect a sweet mango tree to grow :) )

All the information is useful (even the incorrect) because it better shapes the current status of kirtan from some people that do kirtan in any tune they want just to sing Gurbani etc.

I want to get a dilruba and learn from that basis of Gurmat Sangeet.

ChardhiKala :D

Vaheguru :)

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    • Whether you’re a confident but controlling first-born or a resourceful yet restless middle child, your positioning in the family can affect everything from your choice of career to how successful your marriage is.   The order we’re born in – first, middle or youngest child – is outside our control. So it can make us uncomfortable to think that our birth order can play a significant part in our success, our personality – the direction of our life. Surely, these things are not set before we even get started? And yet, we all know a ‘typical middle child’, we recognise ‘classic only-child behaviour’. And the over-achievement of the first-born is one of the most consistent findings in child psychology. So how big a role does birth order play? I’m coming from a vulnerable, emotionally charged and pregnant perspective. I have two daughters, aged five and six, and am about to add a third baby to the mix. At the moment, Ruby, our eldest, has life sussed. She’s independent, educationally gifted and sometimes I think I could leave her in Sainsbury’s and she’d probably look after herself. Tara, her younger sister, is the one who wants the cuddles, who frets if I’m not first at the door when school finishes. The idea that she’ll soon be shoved out of her space as the baby of the family and squashed into the middle fills me with guilt. Is it downhill for her from now on? The importance of birth order was first set out by the Austrian psychologist Alfred Adler. Michael Grose, an Adlerian-trained parenting expert and author of Why First-borns Rule The World And Last-borns Want To Change It (Random House, £12.99), explains the basics. ‘We’re in a Darwinian struggle from the moment we’re born, fighting for scarce resources within a family – our parents’ time, love and affection,’ he says. Through human evolution, birth order has determined who inherits power (the first-born) and who is sent to war (the youngest as he was the ‘spare’). First born Historically, first-borns have been less likely to die in infancy, are less susceptible to disease and, as adults, are more likely to reproduce. They are their parents’ ‘blue-chip security’, whose birth is most eagerly anticipated, whose first steps, first words, first everythings are celebrated. ‘Typical first-borns are appro-val-seeking missiles,’ says Grose. ‘They’ve been showered with attention and identify strongly with power.’ First-borns are thought to be conscientious and achievement-oriented. A study of Norwegians born between 1912 and 1975 found that educational achievement was highest in first-borns and diminished the further down the birth order you got, despite little difference in IQ. The legal profession is, says Grose, filled with first-borns. World leaders are also overwhelmingly first-born children. On the negative side, first-borns are the only ones who experience having their parents all to themselves, then having to share them. For this reason, they’re thought to be anxious, emotionally intense, defensive and prone to jealous rages. These are all characteristics that fit Sarah Ruskell, 43. The eldest of three, she’s a successful academic, married with three children. As a child, she was serious, bookish and mature. ‘I had a younger sister and brother who were much naughtier on a daily basis,’ she says. ‘But if I was pushed, if they messed up my room or touched my records, I’d rage. Any threat to my power, I suppose.’ Another characteristic of first-borns, according to Frank Sulloway, author of Born to Rebel (Abacus), is caution and aversion to risk. They’re the least likely to travel or be physically daring. Again, this fits Sarah. While her middle brother took up hang-gliding and both siblings backpacked round the world, Sarah’s biggest adventure to date is a thunderstorm in France. Many theorists group only children among first-borns ­– although they never experience having to share their parents, nor the frictions, fights or fondness that comes with siblings. For this reason, they feel like outsiders, distanced from much of life. The only child is thought to be extremely mature, aloof, someone who expects a special standing. Middle child So what about the middle child? According to Darwinian theory, they lose out as they are neither the precious, able, oldest,­ nor the vulnerable youngest. Their strength is that they learn to be more flexible and sociable, to compromise and build coalitions. ‘Middle children tend to be more relaxed,’ says Grose. James, 39, is a typical case. Born between his sister and brother, he has always been easy-going, and loves to be surrounded by friends. Yet his affability comes at a price. ‘I turned my back on becoming a pro rugby player because I lacked competitive drive,’ he says. As the first-born boy, James didn’t struggle to establish his own identity as some middle-borns do, but, he says, ‘if I wanted something I definitely had to shout the loudest to make myself heard’. Gemma, 33, the middle of three sisters, found it harder to carve out her niche. ‘I lived in my older sister’s shadow, and was overlooked in favour of my younger sister,’ she says. ‘I felt left out, and overcompensated by forging friendships outside the family.’ She also became a skilled negotiator. ‘As a “middle” I was the peacemaker. I still use those skills now, and I’m good at seeing everyone’s point of view.’ Last born The youngest children are more likely to question the order of things, and develop a ‘revolutionary personality’. Many last-borns choose a completely different path to their older siblings to avoid direct competition. They are the babies of the family, and may grow up expecting others to take responsibility. ‘They’re not life’s volunteers,’ says Grose. ‘They’re more likely to put others in service.’ As the youngest of three, I can recognise myself in that. Growing up, I was the most likely to have blazing rows with my dad, I sympathised with the underdog and I’m not a volunteer. (At family get-togethers, I’m still the least helpful.) But a lonely outsider, struggling with an inferiority complex? It seems harsh to condemn anyone to this description simply on the basis of where they stand in the family. Grose admits the effects of birth order can vary according to different factors, including temperament, gender and age gap. Lucy McDonald is the third of five children, but was the first girl. ‘I’ve got a mix of middle and oldest child traits,’ she says. ‘You can have an easy-going first-born, which will ease the competition all the way down,’ says Grose. ‘If the children are the same sex, the competition is more extreme –­ two boys close together produces the most rivalry, and, generally, the closer the age gap, the more dramatic the birth-order effect. When the gap is more than five years, it’s greatly diminished.’ Grose has found birth order a useful tool when dealing with adult clients. ‘Recently, I was approached by a professional in her forties who was basically worn out,’ he says. ‘She admitted that, as a child, she was always playing catch-up with her sister, who was two years older than her. She had always tried to run as fast and be as clever, and the pattern had played out her whole life. As an adult, she was competitive in everything ­– she’d replaced her older sister with her colleagues, her boss, her friends. Despite career success, she was never happy with herself. Helping her see the problem through the context of birth order put her on the path to understanding and modifying her behaviour patterns.’ Cliff Isaacson, author of Birth Order Effect for Couples (Fair Winds, £9.99), believes birth order can even help you find a partner. ‘Two third-borns make the best couples,’ he says. ‘They relate without conflict, there’s a lot of humour and they make a protective environment for their children. Two first-borns rarely connect, there’s no compromise, it’s not a happy relationship.’ According to Isaacson, however, birth order is not a fixed state. ‘It’s a set of strategies developed in childhood to cope with your siblings (or lack of them), parents and the family situation,’ he says. ‘As you get older, you may learn other ways of interacting with your peers. The best reason for studying your birth order is to understand yourself or your children a little better – then overcome it.’ Are you a born leader? More than half the US Presidents, every US astronaut and most Nobel prize-winners have been either first born or an only child. Typical professions are law, politics, science and accountancy. First-borns: Bill and Hillary Clinton, George W Bush, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler (actually his mother’s first surviving child), Kylie Minogue, Cherie Blair. Only children: Winston Churchill, Joseph Stalin, Franklin D Roosevelt, Jean Paul Sartre, Burt Bacharach, Frank Sinatra, Tiger Woods. Middle children: many middle children work in retail, sales, fashion, advertising or the caring professions. Stella McCartney, Michelle Pfeiffer, Jacqueline du Pré, Princess Diana, Cindy Crawford, Cate Blanchett, Emily Brontë. Last children: thought to be rebels, non-conformists, also drawn to creative professions and performing arts. Joan of Arc, Mahatma Gandhi, Charles Darwin, Leon Trotsky, Charlie Chaplin, Hugh Grant, Johnny Depp. Source - https://www.psychologies.co.uk/birth-order-effect
    • https://www.thequint.com/women/2017/03/15/sexual-harassment-at-the-time-of-sita-draupadi-mandodari-ahalya-ramayana-mahabharata
    • Yeah, but as a condition for marriage if everything else was excellent; that's an overperfection. Though he's got to be happy, instead of starting a marriage on a bad foot.
    • Massands were proven to be Anti-Gurmat, for this very reason? Only Guru Sahib can give Amrit; this is proven in Gurbani 24/7 when imperfect humans start putting their feet in water, and calling it Amrit then we have problems. Guru Sahib is allowed to give Amrit because he is God's form. Nihangs also don't believe in female Punj Pyare; the only groups that do believe in it are man-made Jathas and not Jathas made by Vaheguru; Taksali and Nihangs; (note, not all Nihangs were formed by Guru Sahib). +1, nobody should be changing the topic, but O.P. really got to stop msking threads like this; he has not even bothered to post anything in this topic he knew would lead into a fight. (I'd give him 9000 troll points for this).
    • I'd say most Sikh guys are between 5'6" and 5'11" taller than that is not the norm from what I have seen. And for women about 5'2"-5'5" average. You can find Sikh girls in the 5'8" or taller range but rare. Of course I'm not in Punjab but Kashmir.