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Are Muslims Allowed?


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My dad has a thing about Muslims...(not to be rude of anything) erm, he says that they can't be trusted that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that..He always tells this story of Guru Ji putting his arm into some sesame seeds and loads got stuck to it and Guru Ji said that the amount of seeds stuck to his hand shows the amount f lies a Muslim has told or will tell...I have no idea where he got that from. But when I say that he had many Muslims fighting in his army and singing for him or writing for him'; he says 'they weren't real muslims' and he also says that Sikhs aren't supposed to even look at a Muslim in any kind of 'that way' manner whatsoever...He says its a huge sin...but i'm still confused and i'd appreciate any kind of input into this topic because my dad has a thing about always being right no matter what rolleyes.gif and there's no way of him backing things up by fact etc. if you get my meaning...please help!!!

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My dad has a thing about Muslims...(not to be rude of anything) erm, he says that they can't be trusted that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that..He always tells this story of Guru Ji putting his arm into some sesame seeds and loads got stuck to it and Guru Ji said that the amount of seeds stuck to his hand shows the amount f lies a Muslim has told or will tell...I have no idea where he got that from. But when I say that he had many Muslims fighting in his army and singing for him or writing for him'; he says 'they weren't real muslims' and he also says that Sikhs aren't supposed to even look at a Muslim in any kind of 'that way' manner whatsoever...He says its a huge sin...but i'm still confused and i'd appreciate any kind of input into this topic because my dad has a thing about always being right no matter what rolleyes.gif and there's no way of him backing things up by fact etc. if you get my meaning...please help!!!

d_oh.gif

"Sikhs aren't supposed to even look at a Muslim in any kind of 'that way' manner whatsoever."

You kind of lost me on this bit, what did you mean by any kind of 'that way' manner?

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IF U ARE A SIKH

maybe your dad knows about what happened to sikhs in 1947...between sikhs and muslims in pakistan.

or may be ask your mum.

if u a real sikh u would not be even asking this question..............look it up !

and u will understand.......... :TH:

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Ask you dad, He seems to know more about muslim than our own guruji than ask him who laid foundation of Golden Temple.

Everyone has has certain issues, even my dad has some issues as he stayed in muslim dominated area when he was small i.e. Meerut.

He tells me how sometimes when returning from school riots would breakout and police would be all over the city.

I am talking about 40 years back not about partion.

On other hand my grandfather says he likes muslims as before 1961 , my grandfather along with dad and rest of the family stayed in Iran.

According him Muslims are very good to do business with and he hates hindus, brahmans.

As for me I have been taught no religon is wrong. Islam and Hindusim are old religons and they have been corrupted. Sikhism is world's youngest resligon and it has started showing signs of corruption i.e. lots of people doing certain stuff that doesnt go with spirit of gurbani.

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Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee jee Fateh!

I can't believe some people (especially you raju123). If there is ONE thing written our Gurus tried to teach us, is that we are sons and daughters of the same father. You are a disgrace to sikhi for saying any different.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee jee Fateh!

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Why did India Loose West Punjab , Sind , Afghanistan and Baluchistan in last 600 years?.

I guess west Punjabis are the one who talk of all religions being equal and preaching peace. I guess they were so terrorized by Islam that they till today cannot call spade a spade . West Punjabis, Sindhis and kashmiri who are part of the lost races of Indian civilization.

The EAST Punjabis in contrast safeguarded their land where Punjabis culture flourishes till today.

As to why did wet Punjabi lost his land to Islamic civilization there are several reasons I can contemplate.

1) Lack of adequate appreciation of an enemy who operates over centuries and does not carry out battle over a short period. Since 1400 AD onward for last 600 years Indian civilization has been battling these forces and have lost Afghanistan, Baluchistan , west Punjab, Sindh and Kashmir and East Bengal. They are a tenacious set of people who can do any thing to succeed in their aim of making ever body a muslim.

2) Lack of understanding of laws of war. If having lost a war and then sparing life of enemy to give him a chance to co inhabit this planet as Prithviraj chauhan / Mahatma Gandhi and in 1971 war we did ; if he attacks again then he is no more eligible for mercy. He should remember he was left alive on condition that he shall never attack again. Japenese and Germany don’t dare to dream of attacking USA or Europeon union today after World War II and that is how you become a superpower. The consequence of this repeated forgiveness we face even today as in Bombay blast. Islam is a religion which gives birth to lot of terrorist and earns its converts by swords. The weak amongst us converted at aht time and kill us today.

3) Cowardice in face of enemy. When world has identified terrorism as an enemy then their should be no room given to this philosophy even if practiced by any number of people on this planet.

4) Laziness : like not tilling your own land , construction etc and getting it tilled by muslims in west Punjab. My mom use to boast how nice and compassionate they were to these down trodden people . What happened in the end she got kicked out in 1947 from her home in Sargodha.

5) Elitism: The lack of ability to appreciate and understand the importance of work done by day to day workers/laborer. I have often seen these west Punjbais deride labours from Bihar like children of lesser God ; though on the face of it they preach equality . I have to still see any west Punjabi in Delhi working on a construction site / Metero as a labour etc . It is below his dignity he is to elistist. See their matrimonial site ; it stinks of only Endeavour toward elitism

A combination of all above factor lead to these three races to loose out there precious and golden land. This is the biggest sin of life as per me.

Contrast this to Israel where even if it is not their land (actually it belongs to Palestine ) they way they guard it in a way which is worthy of emulation , here we are only guarding our own land India which we have got after nearly 1000 years of slavery.

My advice to my reader would be that it may be OK to listen to an looser preaching peace. Due to his weakness of his philosophy he has lost his land and he will try to mask his defeat in soft couched words.

Life is inherited by the brainy, bold, baby producer and the warriors like the Caucasians race of Europe and not some pansy guys.

Today our land of UP and Assam are in a similar state what west Punjab , Sind and Kashmir were once upon a time in 1400 . It is a replay of Islamic invasion taking place silently over there.

This phenomenon I describe as a flow of violence across a so called “gradient of violence ”. Like the pressure gradient which flows from higher pressure to lower pressure. This violence gradient flows from western European world to middle east and touches the Indian civilization a peace loving country whom no one wants to spare .

These middle east muddle headed philosophers blokes get a hammering from westerners and since they cant do any thing against western land as it is defended very intelligently. They try all their pent up anger against India whom they find a soft state. We must become smart like West / Israel to defend our self .

West Punjabi philosophy inspite of his best intention and goodwill wont work on this planet . It is a philosophy which has already tried and has failed in west Punjab. If we have to survive we will have to adopt he eastern punjab philosophy and way of life or to make it more aptly a Jatt ( repeat Jatt ) Sikh way of life.

If President Bush gives me a authority I could be his Khalsa Alexander ( remember this is different from the symbolic WEST Punjabi Sikh ) to get this world rid of scourge of terrorism . After all the Wikepedia describes people of Punjab of valour matching those of Alexander.

Alternatively the world could be made a safer place for all its citizens by allowing more Churches , Temples , Gurdwara to come up in Islamic countries with a corresponding increase in population of Christians , Hindus , Buddhist and Sikhs population to make it more contemporary and pleuralistic as is happening in USA , Canada , India, UK etc . This should not be done in a symbolic way. The percentage of population could be monitored. That is encouraging pluralistic societies in these middle east countries.

Alternatively they could choose from a variety of religion which ever suits there taste bud such as Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism or Sikhism or a Protestant variant of Islam . Additional religion could be created to accommodate their aspirations.

They are today also wanting to make money out of us by selling our Spiritual places as tourist spots in our earst while west punjab. All sikhs should have a free ascess to his and her Gurdwaras .It is terrible feeling to be controlled by mortals our Gate ways to heaven.

See todays news on Sikh post :- West Punjab ( In paKistan today ) to carry out census of service sector( Punjab has a lot of potential for attracting religious tourists like Sikhs and Buddhists to its soil, as well as boosting the construction industry. ”(http://www.dawn.com/2006/10/02/ebr2.htm )

Love to all the children of God ( Hindus / Sikhs / Christians etc etc )

Nanak nam chadi kala tere bane sarbat tha bhalla.

Harinder.

( An ex west Punjabi and now an East Punjabi in thought action and philosophy )

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It depends whether you want an answer that is politically correct or an answer based on common sense and a study of history.

Common Sense answer

Muslims are taught in the Koran not to accept any non-Muslims as their friends and to only stay friends with fellow Muslims. Muslims can lie in order to promote their religion and a lie is a good thing in their belief system if it leads to the attainment of a Muslims' objectives. Hence the reason why Muslims will swear blind that Islam means peace when it really means Submission. I have seen countless Muslim scholars on TV, Radio as well as other media tell this LIE many times. Now if people who believe in a system which does not think like Sikhi that Truth and Truthful living is above everything then it is natural that both beliefs at some stage will come into conflict. Aurangzeb made false oaths on the Koran to Guruji. Guruji being antarjami could easily have not taken heed of the oath but the evacuation of Anandpur Sahib shows is that Guruji wanted to show the Sikhs not to trust the Muslims. You can reply that Guruji had many Muslims in his army but like your dad said were these Muslims real Muslims? To be a true Muslim you have to believe in the Koran and in the koran you cannot take any non-Muslim as a friend and worse still as a guide and teacher. Even worse if you take sides with a non-Muslim against an Islamic ruler or state. So those Muslims we always seem to bring up who were in Guruji's army as proof that Islam is a 'good' religion and the Aurangzebs and Ossama bin Ladens as 'corrupt' Muslims leads to a wrong conclusion. Sikhi teaches us that we all children of the same father but this doesn't mean that we disregard the lessons of history and start to trust Muslims. History teaches us that Nazism was an evil ideology so does this mean that we should respect Nazism becase some people believe in it and maybe it was a good belief but was 'corrupted' by Hitler.

Politically Correct answer

Islam is a religion of peace and we should trust Muslims with our lives.

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I agree with Khalsa4ever...this is a crazy debate...

Although I can't quote Maharaji on what was said about Muslims, but it would shock me if it was clearly stated in Maharaji that Muslims should not be trusted....a lot of what is laid out in Maharaji is esoteric by its very nature...some can interpret it in one way and others in another way.

There is a lot of bitterness in the Sikh community after partition et al, but what defines Sikhi?

We claim to be a religion of tolerance, equality...but look how we are craving all this hatred and distrust of other religions...(this is meant in a general way not necessarily as a result of this paricular thread)...the corruption that has been spoken off stems from that very fact!!!

Pyar...we should just start to respect and love one another.

If any is corrupt and should not be trusted its our Mann...its OURSELVES...

I for one respect and LOVE everyone in the world..be they Muslim, Hindu, Jew etc etc...

My best friend is a Muslim, I have Christian and Hindu friends and we all respect eachothers views.

Anyway.

The point i was trying to make is that it is OURSELVES that we cannot trust....it is our mind that is our greatest enemy...not muslims or hindus.............

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My dad has a thing about Muslims...(not to be rude of anything) erm, he says that they can't be trusted that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that..He always tells this story of Guru Ji putting his arm into some sesame seeds and loads got stuck to it and Guru Ji said that the amount of seeds stuck to his hand shows the amount f lies a Muslim has told or will tell...I have no idea where he got that from. But when I say that he had many Muslims fighting in his army and singing for him or writing for him'; he says 'they weren't real muslims' and he also says that Sikhs aren't supposed to even look at a Muslim in any kind of 'that way' manner whatsoever...He says its a huge sin...but i'm still confused and i'd appreciate any kind of input into this topic because my dad has a thing about always being right no matter what rolleyes.gif and there's no way of him backing things up by fact etc. if you get my meaning...please help!!!

d_oh.gif

lol - With all respect your father is talking out of his bum :wub:

ALL the Guru's respected Muslims!! - Your dads views are personal and not of the Sikhs. Their are good and bad in ALL religions including Sikhs! - Hindus are just as bad, but not all are.

Ignore his personal views and you study the history of the Guru's and did you or your father know in the Guru Granth Sahib ji bani is inluded of Muslim saints too? I've met many 'Sikhs' who are shocked when i make this revelation to them!

Pffftt they call themselves Sikhs but don't even know who contributed to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji!! rolleyes.gif

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee jee Fateh!

I can't believe some people (especially you raju123). If there is ONE thing written our Gurus tried to teach us, is that we are sons and daughters of the same father. You are a disgrace to sikhi for saying any different.

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee jee Fateh!

Hear Hear!

Show this link to your father too. This is how much Guru's hated muslims......

http://www.info-sikh.com/MassPage1.html

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