Islamic Website Response!

[Khalsa_Girl_1]

FANTASTIC

Reply

LOL - What are you bowing to? His response? He's claiming the Guru Granth is worsipped and treated like an idol, although this may be the case in some Gurdwaras, it does not mean that this is the truth.

The Guru Granth Sahib ji is the word of God as states Guru Nanak Dv Ji![/b]

thats what i was thinking :wub:

but anywho...who/what was this persons response TO?? :wub:

[Pakandi baba]

FANTASTIC

Reply

LOL - What are you bowing to? His response? He's claiming the Guru Granth is worsipped and treated like an idol, although this may be the case in some Gurdwaras, it does not mean that this is the truth.

The Guru Granth Sahib ji is the word of God as states Guru Nanak Dv Ji![/b]

thats what i was thinking :wub:

but anywho...who/what was this persons response TO?? :wub:

Well it was in response to my email to this chap. I stumbled upon this website as i was having a nosey on google. As i've mentioned he CLAIMS the Guru Granth Sahib is worshipped as an idol and is no different to how the hindus worship the demi gods. I stated this was in incorrect. As the Guru Granth Ji is the word of God and is respected, just as the word in the Bible and Kuran was believed to have been with God in the beginning. It is now contained in the Guru Granth Sahb JI - I stated that muslims have more in common with hindus than us Sikhs, as they too worship a stone in Mecca. The black stone as it's called. He refutes it and says it's respected but not worshipped.

I asked him to rectify the incorrect information on his site, he refuses as you can see from his reply!

Gur Fateh Ji!

[proactive]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Brother i disagree with you:

"Say not that the Vedas and Muslim books are false. False is he, who reflects not on them." (Bhagat Kabir, Parbhati, pg. 1350)

I do think the Quran is from God... and there are many signs in there which no one can deny.... i.e. the splitting of the moon which has only been recently discovered in science (i think).

About the Quran... simulary to today people have memorised the Quran off by heart without any mistake... it only takes more or less about 4 years to do this... simulary thats how the Quran was memorised then at the time of the prophet Muhammed...

The Quran wasnt written by anybody... it was written by the third caliph of Islam (caliph means successor), check this out...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4581684.stm

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Bro please try and understand where and when the verse by Bhagat Kabirji was uttered. It means that don't call these books false unless you have done vichar on them. ONLY then call them false. This was because Bhagat kabirji was addressing groups of Hindus and Muslims who were criticising each others books without even reading them. It's the same as me saying 'The Hobbt' by Tolkein is rubbish without having read it. in way it states that the vedas and Koran are books which are worthy to be followed. Kabirji also calls these books.

There is an interesting discussion on this very shabad on http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...94&t=110192

As for the 'many signs in the koran which one cannot deny' that's a laugh!

http://www.islam-watch.org/MuminSalih/myth...ic_miracles.htm

As for Koran as a creation of God then like everything is existence is a creation of God so this doesn't make the Koran anything special. Nowadays memorising the Koran maybe easy but this is because it is available in a book form. At the time when the Koran was not in a book form how could people have memorised it when it was spread around on pieces of bones, and leafs and leather?

[singh_comradz]

Gosh, heres my two pence worth.

Firstly there is no point in debating with these sort of muslims-very narrow minded and only believe that their dharam is the sole truth. They are preachers, we are not.

They, through their egotistical preaching try and convert others (da'wah) when there is no effort in curbing the inner demons. Whereas Gursikhs try and curb the inner demons and through prem, naam and seva, bring others into the path of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Secondly what never ceases to amaze is that they are always willing to undermine other faiths but when it comes to their own house they claim the quran is the 100% word of Allah. Even though it was written on parchments and 'memorised' at the time AND compiled after Baba Muhammed.

Their defence is that many ppl (especially kids) around the world know the quran off by heart therefore it was the same then in regard to Baba Ji's followers. BUT give me one year and a 500 page document, I could probably do the same so wheres the 'secured truth.' All it takes is one person to forget the exact words.. They need to look into their own house before attacking others.

Thirdly he is partly right in how we worship the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is jagti jyot of Guru sahib ji and to us is our living Guru. Therefore Guru Ji should be treated like how a person should be.

Only ppl with faith in Guru sahib will realise this, no one else will and the proof which he asks for is by reading Gurbani and actually experiencing Sikhi. But this is due to pre-ordained destiny and Gurprasad.

His views are not isolated, there are many 'akhi's' who are negative towards Sikhi.

But remember Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bachan 'Raaj Karega Khalsa Akhi Rehai Na Koi'

So therefore don't bother debating.

Vaheguru

[thecheatah]

We should reply back to this person because they have presented an argument against the Guru Granth Sahib and the way we worship in an intelegent way. By using a logical proof he is trying to prove that Sikhi's core is wrong.

Lets analyse his proof. What he is trying to prove is that Sikhs view the Guru Granth Sahib as an Idol. The reason for him to believe this is because he says we treat the Guru Granth Sahib as a person.

My argument.

I will first begin by saying what the word "idol" means:

an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

Breaking apart this definition you can see that an "idol" is a representation and not the actual thing. The Guru Granth Sahib however IS our Guru. It is not a representation of the Guru. It is not a symbol/sign or something that points to a Guru.

This is true because a Guru is a teacher. Obviously we can learn from written text thus allowing it to teach us, Their is logically nothing wrong with calling written text our Guru.

The Guru Granth Sahib is not something that represents the truth but IS the truth itself! That is where his proof is wrong.

Second in reply to what he said that Sikh belive that the Guru Granth Sahib is alive is not the case. Sikh belive that the written Guru Granth Sahib is something that deserves much respect, because of its ability to make one reach God. The Guru Granth Sahib does not fall into the cycle of life and death thus can not be considered alive. The Guru Granth Sahib instead is considered one's teacher and because of the greatness in knowledge that the Guru Granth Sahib contains, its importance is placed above all others. That's why we carry it above our heads. Reading even one page of it a Sikh's mind fills with the love of God. How can one whos heart is filled with such love treat the Guru in any other way?

It is not our duty to prove wether or not Islam is right or wrong, but it is our duty to prove that Sikhi is the is true.

PS:

I would like to know the link to this forum.

Thanks

[sher_panjabi]

Q: How can Guru Granth Sahib be true when it has the writings of various other men from different religions, i.e. Hindus and Muslims? God reveals through one messenger, like God revealed the Quran through Muhammad. How can God speak and give a message to 15 or 20 different people?

A: Islam teaches that God sends prophets to the nations, in different times and different places, to communicate His message. Since the beginning of time, Islam believes God has sent His guidance through these chosen people. They were human beings who walked among their people and taught them about faith in One Almighty God, and how to walk on the path of righteousness.

The Quran says that:

"The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one of them believes in God, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. They say: 'We make no distinction between one and another of His Messengers.' And they say: 'We hear, and we obey. We seek Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys'" (Al-Baqarah, 2:285).

It is believed that all prophets gave guidance and instruction to their people about how to properly worship God and live their lives. Since God is One, His message has been one and the same throughout time. In essence, all prophets taught the message of Islam - to find peace in your life through submission to the One Almighty Creator -- to believe in God and to follow His guidance.

Although only 25 prophets are mentioned by name in the Qur'an, a Hadith (no. 21257 in Musnad Ibn Hanbal) mentions that there were 124,000 of them in total throughout history. Among the prophets that Muslims honour are: Adam, Enoch, Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Josphet, Shu’aib, Job, Moses, Aaron, Ezekiel, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Jonah, Zechariah, Jesus and Muhammad.

So God can speak through 124,000 people, which includes farmers and shepherds, and still reveal the same message, but apparently it’s not possible for the Almighty All-Powerful God to speak through 36 divine holy men? Where is the logic in that!

Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is ‘real’, i.e. it is ‘reality’ not philosophy. The ‘Shabad’ (Divine Infinite Wisdom) is the Guru. Guru Nanak Sahib jee and the Ten bodies revealed and interpreted the Shabad. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib jee, accumulated the Shabad revelation from the first five Nanaks, fifteen Bhagats (Devotees of God) and eleven Bhatts (Bards), and recorded it into the ‘Physical Word’ in the form of ‘Aad Granth Sahib jee’ (also referred to as 'Pothi Sahib’), which was earlier form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

It is often said that Guru Arjan Dev Sahib jee included the BaaNees (revealed writings) of Hindu and Muslim mystics. This is false! All the Bhagats and Bhatts whose revealed BaaNee was accepted and included in ‘Aaad Granth Sahib jee’ shared the common religion of ‘Gurmat & Naam’ and had experienced ‘Sat’ (the Truth).

Truth is the Truth. There is no different angle to the Truth. The Truth is eternal, unchanging, and constant irrespective of which light someone sees it. Therefore, the Sikh Guru Sahibs, the Bhagats and Bhatts all experienced and talked about this One Universal Truth, which was IK OANKAAR (<>), as explained in the opening verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee:

<> siq nwmu krqw purKu inrBau inrvYru Akwl mUriq AjUnI sYBM gur pRswid ]

“One Universal Creator God. The Truth. Who is Naam. The Creator, who pervades everything. Without Fear. Without Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Unborn. Self-Existent. Attained by the (True) Guru's Grace.”

(Ang 1)

So what is the difference between ‘Guru’ and ‘Bhagat’ (Devotee of God). This can be explained using an analogy of a mother and child. There is one child who opens his eyes and realizes he is sitting in his mother's lapse. There is another child who crawls to his mother and then sits in her lapse. Guru Nanak Sahib jee and his Ten bodies had Brahm-Gyaan (Knowledge of God) from the beginning. They opened their eyes and they were already sitting in the lapse of Vaheguru. The Bhagats were those who through life and experience attained union with the Divine and sat in the laps of Vaheguru. Once they reached this level, through the chosen Bhagats of Vaheguru the Shabad was revealed to the world. As a consequence there is no difference between the Shabad (GurbaaNee) revealed through the Sikh Gurus and the Bhagats etc. Both are ‘GurbaaNee'.

[Bijla Singh]

As Muslims state that Quran was revealed to Mohamamd through angel Gabriel. Mohammad spoke the words and his contemporaries wrote it down. It took 23 years to complete the Quran. Now, Mohammad was an uneducated and an illiterate man. Then how is it possible for an uneducated man to comprehend the spiritual knowledge that is passed to him? God revealed the words to Gabriel which means that it is possible that angel Gabriel did not fully understand the true meanings and misinterpreted it which he revealed to Mohammad. Mohammad being an illiterate man probably had his own misinterpretations which he spoke to his contemporaries who further had their own misinterpretations which were written down. So that is three times the misinterpretation. Let's just assume that everything went perfect and the entire message was passed down to Mohammad correctly (though not possible) even then it is possible that his contemporaries wrote it down wrong or made grammatical errors since they were not that educated themselves and did not have revelation. Mohammad being an uneducated man was incapable of checking for errors or for its authenticity. So whatever errors were made stayed in the Quran. Misinterpreted message full of errors cannot be the word of God.

Guru Granth Sahib is the only true word of Waheguru as it was written down by those to whom it was revealed.

[killah]

Wasnt their something about satanic verses in quran? Aparently muhammad had said allah had daughters or something along those lines. But muslims regard this as satanic influence? Im not too sure but can anyone else enlighten me to what this is all about?

In regards to muslims claiming we idol worship the SGGS ji, which is incorrect. I would like to give the similar counter arguement that they idol worship the kaaba and the black stone. Prostrating towards the kaaba (house of allah) is an act of worshipping it. At one time the kaaba held 360 pagan arabic idol gods. It is said Muhammad destoryed 359 and left one of them, the moon god idol (al-lah) the god of his quarshi tribe. So it makes sense when they refer to kaaba as house of allah because thats where the alleged moon god idol is kept.

[singh_comradz]

As Muslims state that Quran was revealed to Mohamamd through angel Gabriel. Mohammad spoke the words and his contemporaries wrote it down. It took 23 years to complete the Quran. Now, Mohammad was an uneducated and an illiterate man. Then how is it possible for an uneducated man to comprehend the spiritual knowledge that is passed to him? God revealed the words to Gabriel which means that it is possible that angel Gabriel did not fully understand the true meanings and misinterpreted it which he revealed to Mohammad. Mohammad being an illiterate man probably had his own misinterpretations which he spoke to his contemporaries who further had their own misinterpretations which were written down. So that is three times the misinterpretation. Let's just assume that everything went perfect and the entire message was passed down to Mohammad correctly (though not possible) even then it is possible that his contemporaries wrote it down wrong or made grammatical errors since they were not that educated themselves and did not have revelation. Mohammad being an uneducated man was incapable of checking for errors or for its authenticity. So whatever errors were made stayed in the Quran. Misinterpreted message full of errors cannot be the word of God.

Guru Granth Sahib is the only true word of Waheguru as it was written down by those to whom it was revealed.

Also I think they had many wars with non-believers during Baba Muhammeds time and after which could have influenced his disciples views

[4givme4mysins]

Ek Onkaar Satnaam

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Some people might think we are giving food to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, BUT we are really asking Waheguru Ji to Bless the food that we shall eat....