Caste/ Chamaar

[Guest Guest]

ok ive got this question for the people who are from a chamaar background..( sorry dnt mean to offend anyone by bringing up the caste thing but its the only way for me to get the answer............ i just wanted to know that now that you are into sikhi...do you still believe bhagat ravidass is a guru???

as i am from a chamaar background...however im AGAINST castes..since ive got into sikhi i see things from a different point of view etc........and to be honest i thought through and it made sence that bhagat ravidass cant be a guru as in gurbani its made clear who are the ten gurus...however i dnt get the concept that in the "guru ravidass gurdwara" they have guru granth sahib and they bow down to the guru which contains the quotes to prove bhagat ravidass isnt a guru..as bhagat ravidass has written in his shabd that he is no more than a bhagat...so what is the arguement about???

that does not mean bhagat ravidass is given no respect....obviously his slok are in guru granth sahib..... he is such an inspirational bhagat for others...however i believe he should not be seen as guru...like at the moment everyone thinks im brain washed or something for thinking like that :| ..but obviously they cannot understand why i think like that now...

i know some ppl might be like these questions shouldnt bother you as you need to concentrate on your path etc but these kind of questions are asked b people and you could call this my weakness or whatever but i do hesitate to answer this question as you could imagine brought up in a family where a family have followed half of the stuff that is not even part of sikhism forget starting on the other stuff...and then you have to turn away from all of them belives.....and at the moment i know what i want and thats guruji...however when the community asks me these kind of questions....."oh so you believe that guru ravidass is not a guru now"? ..for some reason i dnt want to answer the questions and i really dnt know why..maybe im scared to see the result :wub:

im sorry if this post has offended anyone...to be honest i dnt even know what i want from sangat jee as ive written this post :wub: ...

[_K_]

yup i no wa u meeeeeeaaaannn ....

well no i dont believe Ravidass was a Guru, he was before Guru Nanak Ji( i think) we all no Guru Nanak was th first guru. but thennnnnnnnnnn sum ppl call other bahgats guru, but dont actuall mean "Guru" in th sikh context.

basically from my own understanding they made him in2 their Guru cuz of th caste tensions, and there was a time (v long ago) where a chammar wasnt alowwed in2 a madir OR a gurdwara and so they made ther own gurdwareh "Guru Ravidass Gurdwareh" and he is their Guru cuz he was from chamaar bakground, if that makes sense.

excatly, ther are 10 "gurus" so y dont they referr 2 kabir, farid and namdev as gurus as well? cuz they were not from chamaar background thats y.

o dun wurry abt it, i bin classed as brain washed 4 yeeeeeears by my family lol :nihungsmile:

but ye ppl say dont worry abt these kinda questions but unless uv grown up in tha environment those questions are gna b ther and are gna bug u ...

hope i helped

oh and also, cuz theyv gone and segregated themselves from other sikhs, sum call themselves hindu, sum ravidassis and sum claim 2 b followers of th adharmy brotherhood... & due 2 this ther is a lack of understanding of sikhism, and they fail 2 see that they hav more in common with sikhi then hindus, so theyr th brainwashed 1s :wub:

eg. my cousin believes the Khanda is a "jatt sign" :wub: @ wackooooo

my massar says we r hindus that follow sikhism :|

i cud go on n onnnnnn

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

if we get it into the thick skulls we all carry on or necks:

Baani is Guru. Nanak, Ravidas, were names of bodies, which are temporary, the guru is eternal.

Baani Guru, Guru hai Baani, wich baani amrit saare.

peace.

[curious_man]

yes ...thre were grt saints..bhagats...holy ppl b4 guru nanak...

but its mentioned in gurbaani ..tht miti dhundh sab chaanan hua!!

thre was a white fog spread over...guru nanak came and dispersed it...

who can kill the fog... only sunlight...and nothing else!!

so guru nanak was like a sun..rest were thre too but...like stars... when sun rises..all stars hide!!

[Guest Guest]

RAVI DAS WAS A BHAGAT NOT A GURU,

BUT ITS ALSO A LIE THAT ''CHAMAR'' CASTES WERE NOT ALLOWED IN A GURUDWARA,, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TYPING IN THE STORY BUT IT WAS ONLY IN MANDIRS...

AND NO OFFENCE TO ANYBODY, IT TENDS TO BE THE LOWER CASTES WHICH HAVE THESE THEORIES OF A KHANDA BEING A JATT SIGN ETC. ETC. AS U HAVE SAID. THESE R A LOAD OF B.U.L.L LOL

WJKWJF :e:

[Guest GUEST]

RAVI DAS WAS A BHAGAT NOT A GURU,

BUT ITS ALSO A LIE THAT ''CHAMAR'' CASTES WERE NOT ALLOWED IN A GURUDWARA,, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TYPING IN THE STORY BUT IT WAS ONLY IN MANDIRS...

AND NO OFFENCE TO ANYBODY, IT TENDS TO BE THE LOWER CASTES WHICH HAVE THESE THEORIES OF A KHANDA BEING A JATT SIGN ETC. ETC. AS U HAVE SAID. THESE R A LOAD OF B.U.L.L LOL

WJKWJF :e:

pls type in th story... i would like 2 hear it..as far as i have known chamaars were a v long time ago, made to feel uncomfortable in a gurdwara, eg (i do not no if this true) but i heard that chamaars had 2 sit to one side at shri Darbar Sahib and once they would not accept prashad from the chamaars..

but please tell me this story u have

4give me 4 my mistakes, bhul chuk maaph

( and i think it has alraedy been pointed out these "theories" were a load of bull by the penji previously)

:e:

[Akali]

I am from a 'chamaar' background and was brought up believing I was a hindu by my parents. As i got older, I went towards the path of Sikhi and realised that I had been fed the wrong info. Ravidass was a bhagat and not a Guru:

'Jahan Jahan Ja Hun, Tahan Teri Seva, Bhagat Heth, Gaveh Ravidassa'

This is from the shabad 'Sachi Preet' composed by Bhagat Ravidass and he refers to himself as a Bhagat who where ever he goes will serve Waheguru.

Bhagat Ravidass's compositions are within the Guru Granth Sahib and thats that.

Guru Nanak is the first Guru because he was chosen by Waheguru to convey the message of Sikhi. Therefore, he is the first teacher of Sikhi and so making him the first Guru. Anyone before Guru Nanak was a Bhagat. Bhagat Ravidass was born before Guru Nanak. Guru Nanak was fairly young when he met Bhagat Ravidass who at this time was in the later years.

Hope that helps. If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to ask them and I will try my best to answer them.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[singh_sandhu]

hmm, ive seen a Gurdwara Guru Ravidass down london, and the Nishaan Sahibs symbol is very different, why is that?

Sory if itz a dumb ques but i was jus wondering? Im not trying 2 offend any1 but if i am, im sorry in advance...

[_K_]

2 singh sandhu thass cuz most of em dont class themselves as sikh...4 sum wierdo reason most ppl in that comunity r brought up believin they'r hindu and i think thas the "adharmy brotherhood" sign which is what some of them follow. . .

[singh_sandhu]

2 singh sandhu thass cuz most of em dont class themselves as sikh...4 sum wierdo reason most ppl in that comunity r brought up believin they'r hindu and i think thas the "adharmy brotherhood" sign which is what some of them follow. . .

o ok, thanx _K_ Ji. Yup i kno, i hav a cuple of mates that are chumaar, but they tell me that they harf hindu & harf sikh, I dunno how that works out. I tryd questionin them that how can they be harf harf?

Ive noticed that on Alpha Panjabi that they show Bhagat Ravidas as Guru....