Evolution - an interesting discussion with muslims

[novtejsinghkhalsa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I had an interesting discussion at school in the sixth form cafeteria with some of my sikh and muslim friends. We started talking about how the people of each religion cause a segregation within, leading to different caste's (e.g. jatt), and groups (e.g sunny, shia). We also agreed on points as such that there are people who misuse preaching (eg. sants in sikhi and pir's in islam) for their own benefit - i.e. in return for money. I talked about how there have been sants who have come to Bradford (the town i live in) in the past (not now as any self proclaimed sant who dares coming to Bradford especially singh sabha is asking for a beating :v :g ) and offered remedies at a price for curing diseases, condition's, etc. It was later discovered by the panth that they were using cocaine in some of these so called remedies.

Anyway (getting to the topic), i started talking to some other muslims adn we talked the soame topics as i discussed before but from talking about how people cause problems, and how some hate each other, we started talking about how the whole world could just be one big family and how we actually came into existence. :T:

I mentioned

Darwin's theory of evolution but the muslims readily opposed it as they believe that they were created by God with clay according to the qur'an. However I said that although i believe that waheguroo jee created us, i don't really care how as this not my purpose as a sikh to live. My purpose along with everyone else's purpose should be to intune with waheguroo. I mentioned how waheguroo ji's creations have evolved over years eg. the horse's foot and that we may have developed from other animal such as chimps, apes. Although some of us would have liked to have been evolved from the tiger. :e:

The muslims talked about Adam and Eve and how they were sent down to earth from heaven for eating an apple or something...basically their story made no sense as they said that they only had 2 boys.

maharaj says:

AMg 719

ang 719

Page 719

bYrwVI mhlw 4 ]bairaarree mehulaa 4

Bairaaree, Fourth Mehl:

hir jnu rwm nwm gun gwvY ]

har jun raam naam gun gaavai

The Lord's humble servant sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord's Name.

jy koeI inMd kry hir jn kI Apunw gunu n gvwvY ]1] rhwau ]

jae koee nindh kurae har jun kee apunaa gun n guvaavai

Even if someone slanders the Lord's humble servant, he does not give up his own goodness. ||1||Pause||

jo ikCu kry su Awpy suAwmI hir Awpy kwr kmwvY ]

jo kish kurae s aapae suaamee har aapae kaar kumaavai

Whatever the Lord and Master does, He does by Himself; the Lord Himself does the deeds.

hir Awpy hI miq dyvY

suAwmI hir Awpy boil bulwvY ]1]

har aapae hee math dhaevai suaamee har aapae bol bulaavai

The Lord and Master Himself imparts understanding; the Lord Himself inspires us to speak. ||1||

hir Awpy pMc qqu ibsQwrw ivic DwqU pMc Awip pwvY ]

har aapae punch thuth bisuthaaraa vich dhaathoo punch aap paavai

The Lord Himself directs the evolution of the world of the five elements; He Himself infuses the five senses into it.

jn nwnk siqguru myly Awpy hir Awpy Jgru cukwvY ]2]3]

jun naanuk sathigur maelae aapae har aapae jhugur chukaavai

O servant Nanak, the Lord Himself unites us with the True Guru; He Himself resolves the conflicts. ||2||3||

..but even then there is no direct statment towards evolution. i guess that it must be a bs topic.

The muslims seemed quite stubborn to their belief and so i left the discussion at that. Although this was quite an interesting discussion to pass over my lunch break i was wondering what the rest of the sangat have to say about evolution.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest mehtab]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

1st and foremost, daas wud suggest not to spend (or rather waste) too much time arguing and debating with muslims brothers/sisters as they are hard to convince in matters pertaining to religion . Living 18 yrs in the middle east thats 1 thing i m sure about them. Secondly, japji sahib has all the knowledge as to how everything started (plzz correct me if i m wrong). On Saturday in the Gurdwara, the gyani ji (bhai amarjit singh tann) was telling the sangat that WAHEGURU created the entire creation from just one sound. For further querries plzz visit http://allaboutsikhs.com/mansukh/ . This page will answer almost all of your questions, i hope .

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Pheena]

hmmm ok let see

Adam and Even were meant as a symbol of creation of the opposites(Dual). When and if you take them Literally that god created them then the obvious question comes up is that. From 2 people the whole world is poppulated. I don't know but i don't think this whole world came about from imbreeding. How do you explain chinese/blacks. Their whole physical structure is different. Or perhaps there were more than one Adam and Even one in the Asian Hemisphere and a one in the African region. It arises more question if you take them literally.

The story of Adam and Eve is not to be taken literally. Take the message that it presents not the literal story that from 2 people came forth 6 billion humans. They are mythelogical characters.

Im not sure how the story differs from the christian's Adam and Eve to the muslims.

The story also projects the Original Sin, made by Adam by eating the apple from the forbidden tree. From then on the whole of humanity is being punished because of that sin made by Adam. As for Eve being created from a Rib of adam.

If you actually look more into the Reasons behind Adam and Eve, you find great meaning behind them. I heard this about the rib, that god created woman from the Rib of Adam which protects the heart of man, In turn it is giving the female a great status of protecting the mans heart. The message is far greater than the literal taking of the story.

That is my understanding of them.

As for your muslim friend saying god made us out of clay, he is absolutly correct..we are nothing more than clay. There are refrences in the SGGS of the human body made of Clay.

r>

[Guest Akaal108]

Check out this as well:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.ppa?t=1735

[Guest mehtab]

hahahahahaha

that was an interesting thread

[Guest balwinderkaur]

hmm i dont like that comment of gurujee having nicely trimmed nails like he just went to Toni and Guys.

[Akaali]

First of all, the lotuses bloomed in the woods; from them, all the swan-souls came into being. Know that, through Krishna, the Lord, Har, Har, the dance of creation dances. || 1 || First of all, there was only the Primal Being. From that Primal Being, Maya was produced. All that is, is His. In this Garden of the Lord, we all dance, like water in the pots of the Persian wheel. || 1 || Pause || Women and men both dance. There is no other than the Lord. Don’t dispute this, and don’t doubt this. The Lord says, “This creation and I are one and the same.” || 2 || Like the pots on the Persian wheel, sometimes the world is high, and sometimes it is low. Wandering and roaming around, I have come at last to Your Door. “Who are you?” “I am Naam Dayv, Sir.” O Lord, please save me from Maya, the cause of death. || 3 || 4 ||

[Guest balwinderkaur]

vaaheguroo