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Patka, Keski Dastar Or None?


Moorakh1
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Hello all,

If a Singhani is an amritdari, are they supposed to don a keski dastar or a patka or neither (is it upto personal choice). I know that singhs wear the keski and dastar or keski and pugh or pugh on its own.

is it necessary for a Singhini to cover her kes at all times grin.gif ?

What is the sangats opinion on the matter :@ .

Ta.

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waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

well in sikhi men and women are equal right?

Men cover there hair .. so should women

we are told in sikhi to cover our hair ...

So yes!! singhnee and singhs cover theire hair!! at all times!!

waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru

141534[/snapback]

Well Said pray.gif

Both Singh & Singhniyah should cover their hair !

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Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

Regarding the issue of covering the head, it is an act of humility and respect, in society and more importantly in the presence of Guru Jee. Thus a Sikh should try to cover their head as much as possible, preferably at all times.

It is not important whether an Amrit Dhari bibi covers their head with a chunni or with a patka, with a keski or with a dastaar. The aim is to be have the head covered and all these different head coverings achieve the aim.

No doubt Sikhi promotes equality, but this is not practised by ensuring that both women and men wear dastaars. Equality as a concept has been blown out of proportion. The Sikh Gurus enforced equality because women were being treated as inferior to men. Rituals of the Gurus’ times included women having to kill themselves by jumping on their husbands’ funeral pyres. It was also preached by both Hindus and Muslims that women could only obtain liberation from the cycle of life and death, through their reliance on a man, be it their husband, father or brother. However, the Gurus abolished these bharams and false doubts in the peoples’ minds by raising the status of women, declaring that they are equal in the eyes of Parmatma, that both men and women can obtain mukhti, as they both have the same jot of Vaheguru residing within them. There is no reason why both should not reach Vaheguru.

Thus this is the nature of equality in Sikhi. The Gurus did not say that both men and women must dress identically in order to practise equality. Even if we take the example of men and women dressing similarly by wearing baana, why can men wear open chole/baana whilst bibian must wear pyjammees with their baana? Is this discrimination? Does this present men and women as inequal? No. It is merely that men and women are different and have different roles and practises in society. This does not make them inequal.

Men and women can never be identical in appearance. We are God’s creation, He himself forms the genders separately and differently, not even all men look the same, not even all women look the same, yet to achieve equality we must make men and women look the same? Why did Vaheguru even create both men and women if this was the case?!

It is not that wearing a dastaar is wrong as a bibi, if one wants to wear it fine. But this is personal choice. A bibi that wears a chunni is by no means inferior to a bibi that wears a dastaar.

Rehat is key, the discipline we practise is what takes us closer to Vaheguru Jee. But, each and every rehat we practise should contribute to our spiritual growth, otherwise we will be blindly following our faith with no spiritual growth but just ritualism. This is exactly what the Gurus preached against. We should not practise rehats unless our own mind instructs us to do so, that way we will do it out of love, and we will be able to stick to the rehat forever, our minds will remain stable and determined because we did it out of choice. Thus covering the head in any particular way should not be forced upon any individual. It does not matter what other people think, it is a personal relationship that one has with their Guru and Vaheguru. If someone feels that it is right to cover their head with a patka, yet another feels that the same spirituality can be experienced whilst they wear a dastaar, then why would Parmatma differentiate between the 2 souls when they are before Him once we have died? Our dastaar or patka or chunni or keski will not go with us in our next life, but what we have learnt, the spirituality we have gained from practising that rehat will accompany us before Him.

This is what my personal understanding is from reading Gurbani and doing sangat of Gursikhs. It is important to break away from behm and bharam, we must remain spiritual as opposed to just religious. The only reason we practise rehat, discipline is to increase our spirituality. If this not achieved, we will not reap the apaar kirpa and nadar of Vaheguru Jee, but instead the false praise of mere mortals.

Bhull chuk maaf.

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

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Mahamoorakh jee,

1) "It is not important whether an Amrit Dhari bibi covers their head with a chunni or with a patka, with a keski or with a dastaar. The aim is to be have the head covered and all these different head coverings achieve the aim."

If it isn't important whether a bibi covers her head with a chunni/patka/dastaar, why is it important for a Singh? Why can't a man wear a chunni and achieve the same "aim" as a bibi (having the head covered)? You can say it is not a matter of inequality, but it certainly becomes one of double-standards then. Would your Satguru give his Sikhs double-standards?

2) "No doubt Sikhi promotes equality, but this is not practised by ensuring that both women and men wear dastaars. Equality as a concept has been blown out of proportion."

The Gurus promoted equality in EVERY aspect. By breaking the shackles that chained women down through rituals and other religions, Guru Sahib proclaimed KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS. Unless you believe women are not part of the Khalsa, there's no way to justify a claim that a bibi can be a Sikh, a Khalsa, without a dastaar. She, like a Singh, is the very embodiment of the Guru. When she stands amongst the Punj Pyaaray during an Amrit Sinchaar, can she have a chunni while the rest have dastaar? Of course not. She will have to embody the form of the Khalsa, to become the form of Guru Sahib himself.

3) "The Gurus did not say that both men and women must dress identically in order to practise equality."

If you believe that the Khalsa is Akaal Purakh ki Fauj, then you should know that every army has a uniform. The Khalsa too has a uniform -- Gurmukhi baana. It applies to both Singhs and Kaurs. They do indeed dress identically.

4) "Even if we take the example of men and women dressing similarly by wearing baana, why can men wear open chole/baana whilst bibian must wear pyjammees with their baana?"

Bibian are not required to wear pajamis. Most choose to, just as lots of Singhs do. Wearing a cholaa with a pajami still qualifies as Gurmukhi baana though.

5) "It is not that wearing a dastaar is wrong as a bibi, if one wants to wear it fine. But this is personal choice."

Unless you think it is acceptable for a Singh to wear a chunni to exercise his freedom of choice as well, your argument holds no water.

6) "A bibi that wears a chunni is by no means inferior to a bibi that wears a dastaar."

Inferiority aside, a bibi with a chunni can never be completely tyaar bar tyaar, ready for anything, to the same level as a Singh or Singhnee with dastaar, sans chunni. A chunni is not stuck to one's head and does not stay in place unless it is held there. In a battlefield...heck, even walking down the street...a chunni is not a practical head-covering.

7) "Rehat is key, the discipline we practise is what takes us closer to Vaheguru Jee."

Finally something I agree with! Rehit is indeed key. But would your Guru give a different rehit to Singhs and a separate rehit to Singhnees? Mine wouldn't. Please don't turn this into a Kes/Keski debate, but please do note that no old source claims that kes is a kakaar, but they do list keski as one.

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Mahamoorakh jee,

1) "It is not important whether an Amrit Dhari bibi covers their head with a chunni or with a patka, with a keski or with a dastaar. The aim is to be have the head covered and all these different head coverings achieve the aim."

If it isn't important whether a bibi covers her head with a chunni/patka/dastaar, why is it important for a Singh?  Why can't a man wear a chunni and achieve the same "aim" as a bibi (having the head covered)?  You can say it is not a matter of inequality, but it certainly becomes one of double-standards then.  Would your Satguru give his Sikhs double-standards?

2) "No doubt Sikhi promotes equality, but this is not practised by ensuring that both women and men wear dastaars. Equality as a concept has been blown out of proportion."

The Gurus promoted equality in EVERY aspect.  By breaking the shackles that chained women down through rituals and other religions, Guru Sahib proclaimed KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS.  Unless you believe women are not part of the Khalsa, there's no way to justify a claim that a bibi can be a Sikh, a Khalsa, without a dastaar.  She, like a Singh, is the very embodiment of the Guru.  When she stands amongst the Punj Pyaaray during an Amrit Sinchaar, can she have a chunni while the rest have dastaar?  Of course not.  She will have to embody the form of the Khalsa, to become the form of Guru Sahib himself.

3) "The Gurus did not say that both men and women must dress identically in order to practise equality."

If you believe that the Khalsa is Akaal Purakh ki Fauj, then you should know that every army has a uniform.  The Khalsa too has a uniform -- Gurmukhi baana.  It applies to both Singhs and Kaurs.  They do indeed dress identically.

4) "Even if we take the example of men and women dressing similarly by wearing baana, why can men wear open chole/baana whilst bibian must wear pyjammees with their baana?"

Bibian are not required to wear pajamis.  Most choose to, just as lots of Singhs do.  Wearing a cholaa with a pajami still qualifies as Gurmukhi baana though.

5) "It is not that wearing a dastaar is wrong as a bibi, if one wants to wear it fine. But this is personal choice."

Unless you think it is acceptable for a Singh to wear a chunni to exercise his freedom of choice as well, your argument holds no water.

6) "A bibi that wears a chunni is by no means inferior to a bibi that wears a dastaar."

Inferiority aside, a bibi with a chunni can never be completely tyaar bar tyaar, ready for anything, to the same level as a Singh or Singhnee with dastaar, sans chunni.  A chunni is not stuck to one's head and does not stay in place unless it is held there.  In a battlefield...heck, even walking down the street...a chunni is not a practical head-covering.

7) "Rehat is key, the discipline we practise is what takes us closer to Vaheguru Jee."

Finally something I agree with!  Rehit is indeed key.  But would your Guru give a different rehit to Singhs and a separate rehit to Singhnees?  Mine wouldn't.  Please don't turn this into a Kes/Keski debate, but please do note that no old source claims that kes is a kakaar, but they do list keski as one.

141626[/snapback]

Penji you nailed it! :TH:

whenever any1 asks me this i got the answers now.....

thankyou... rolleyes.gif

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"no old source lists kes as kakkar but keski as one"

what??!!! ji i dont get that....that means you can wear keski and what do kes di beadbi??

please answer this quesiton, you jus confused me! wacko.gif

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Mahamoorakh jee,

1) "It is not important whether an Amrit Dhari bibi covers their head with a chunni or with a patka, with a keski or with a dastaar. The aim is to be have the head covered and all these different head coverings achieve the aim."

If it isn't important whether a bibi covers her head with a chunni/patka/dastaar, why is it important for a Singh?  Why can't a man wear a chunni and achieve the same "aim" as a bibi (having the head covered)?  You can say it is not a matter of inequality, but it certainly becomes one of double-standards then.  Would your Satguru give his Sikhs double-standards?

2) "No doubt Sikhi promotes equality, but this is not practised by ensuring that both women and men wear dastaars. Equality as a concept has been blown out of proportion."

The Gurus promoted equality in EVERY aspect.  By breaking the shackles that chained women down through rituals and other religions, Guru Sahib proclaimed KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS.  Unless you believe women are not part of the Khalsa, there's no way to justify a claim that a bibi can be a Sikh, a Khalsa, without a dastaar.  She, like a Singh, is the very embodiment of the Guru.  When she stands amongst the Punj Pyaaray during an Amrit Sinchaar, can she have a chunni while the rest have dastaar?  Of course not.  She will have to embody the form of the Khalsa, to become the form of Guru Sahib himself.

3) "The Gurus did not say that both men and women must dress identically in order to practise equality."

If you believe that the Khalsa is Akaal Purakh ki Fauj, then you should know that every army has a uniform.  The Khalsa too has a uniform -- Gurmukhi baana.  It applies to both Singhs and Kaurs.  They do indeed dress identically.

4) "Even if we take the example of men and women dressing similarly by wearing baana, why can men wear open chole/baana whilst bibian must wear pyjammees with their baana?"

Bibian are not required to wear pajamis.  Most choose to, just as lots of Singhs do.  Wearing a cholaa with a pajami still qualifies as Gurmukhi baana though.

5) "It is not that wearing a dastaar is wrong as a bibi, if one wants to wear it fine. But this is personal choice."

Unless you think it is acceptable for a Singh to wear a chunni to exercise his freedom of choice as well, your argument holds no water.

6) "A bibi that wears a chunni is by no means inferior to a bibi that wears a dastaar."

Inferiority aside, a bibi with a chunni can never be completely tyaar bar tyaar, ready for anything, to the same level as a Singh or Singhnee with dastaar, sans chunni.  A chunni is not stuck to one's head and does not stay in place unless it is held there.  In a battlefield...heck, even walking down the street...a chunni is not a practical head-covering.

7) "Rehat is key, the discipline we practise is what takes us closer to Vaheguru Jee."

Finally something I agree with!  Rehit is indeed key.  But would your Guru give a different rehit to Singhs and a separate rehit to Singhnees?  Mine wouldn't.  Please don't turn this into a Kes/Keski debate, but please do note that no old source claims that kes is a kakaar, but they do list keski as one.

141626[/snapback]

:@ .... Well Said Penjee :TH:

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"no old source lists kes as kakkar but keski as one"

what??!!! ji i dont get that....that means you can wear keski and what do kes di beadbi??

please answer this quesiton, you jus confused me! wacko.gif

141632[/snapback]

Hi,

I think thats wot peynji is saying that you can wear a keski and that a person cant argue that u r allowed to do kes bedbi, only the most stupid of the stupidest fool beyfkooof bandars ke hudee would make such a dumb claim rolleyes.gif

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