Lets discuss something..

[Gupt_Singh]

dearest penji dorothy,

firstly please refrain from calling any article a "sham". dr birendra kaur spent alot of time on that essay, whether you agree with it or not does not give you the right to make fun of other peoples work.

you took one line out of context from that passage, please refute all the other points made by bindendra kaur.

because a piece is not written by a well know scientist does that make its work invalid? if so, then how can a scientist become well known if his work is nullified the moment it is published?

can u please tell me why you cut your hair? does it not seem ritualistic and silly to go through the pain of waxing, shaving, plucking, pulling, and whatever else to conform with what society has brainwashed you with? if anything, you should be providing some kind of evidence to show why we should mutilate our body from its original form.

apes do not have large growths of hair under their chin if male or on their hair. only humans have this. the human is the only organism capable of meditation and the hair functions to protect and enhance the dasam duar.

you may see the concept of the dasam duar as silly, but if i ask you why helium behaves strangely at near 0 kelvin can you scientifically tell me? what about if i ask about EXACTLY why metallic bonding works in metals? the fact is scientists dont know. science is still evolving and is by no means perfect.

most yogis keep a jurra (uncut topknot) on their hair to aid meditation. interestingly studies into meditation shows it calms the mind, relaxes the body, makes people content and happy, and even strengthens the immune system in some cases.

those who have a stron

g belief in sikhi will ask themselves, not why do we keep our hair, but why do we cut our hair?

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Dear Mrs/Ms R. Dorothy Wayneright:

First, welcome. Your theory of humans losing hair is onlypartly correct. Now, a theory. Our closest relatives are the chimpanzees. It is true that we do not have a furry coat as chimps on our bodies, but compare the hair on our heads. Whose is longer? Humans, of course. If one is to believe science, then one understands that such an adaptation occured because humans had a need for more hair on their heads. If hair on our heads was completely useless, humans would be nearly bald, similar to the hair on the rest of our bodies.

It's there for some reason. Everytime it is cut, it grows back to that length. It is not a vestigal tissue, but rather a body part whose function is not fully understood by science.

[Mkhalsa]

Sister Dorothy, you are right, blindly following authority is wrong. Our religion started by our gurus questioning every single empty ritual of the religions around them, such as hinduism and islam.

Great, so if one would want to follow in the steps of the Gurus it would make sense to question everything around them as well correct?

Yes and No. I used to ask many questions about everything. I was an athiest a few years ago. I knew about sikhi, but i didnt care and I didnt beleive in it. I didnt beleive god existed, if he did, why was I always in so much pain? But then I realized its not about answers, its about faith and love. And soon my only love was god and from there all my questions were automatically answered without even being asked. Is god great or what?

I mean look at Sikhi, first concept of a red cross, when we were being slaughtered, our medics still had the love to go out and help the other side. Our Gurus said that all men and women of all colors, races, castes, creeds handicaps etc are equal. They said all the human race is one.. 500 years ago. This is something that western civilization just thought up in the last hundred years and has yet to acheive

. I truly beleive Sikhi and most likely all religions were sent down by god. If sikhi wasn't how is it so perfect? how is that most of it can be related to science, how is that most of it is fact? Our religious texts were written by our gurus themselves, unlike every other religion, so perhaps they all had the same truth but after so much time, some have become corrupted.

I dont know, but all religions are a righteous path if followed properly with a true love for god.

firstly please refrain from calling any article a "sham". dr birendra kaur spent alot of time on that essay, whether you agree with it or not does not give you the right to make fun of other peoples work.

I called it a sham because it was trying to be passed off as scientific research paper, when it obviously is not. The author had not intention of looking at the subject matter objectively because they had already made up their mind before hand.

If this was just another forum post I wouldn't have called it a sham, because then it is just opinion; but I will call it a sham if people attempt to pass it off as scientific research paper.

Where does it say its a scientific research paper? it is just trying to prove what we already know spiritually about hair using a scientific basis.

you took one line out of context from that passage, please refute all the other points made by bindendra kaur.

Why? It is pretty self defeating to bring in spirituality to a discussion of hair in the context of evolution.

Why? Truth is truth whether it is learnt through science, spirituality or what have u, right?

apes do not have large growths of hair under their chin if male or on their hair. only humans have this. the human is the only organism capable of meditation and the hair functions to protect and enhance the dasam duar.

Again you are bringing in spirituality to a discussion that is about hair with respect to evolution.

This IS a religion based forum after all..

those who have a strong belief in sikhi will ask themselves, not why do we keep our hair, but why do we cut our hair?

Again, I will reiterate, this is a discussion on hair in the context of evolution (if I am not mistaken) please stay on topic.

yes, but this is also a religious message board.

Our closest relatives are the chimpanzees. It is true that we do not have a furry coat as chimps on our bodies, but compare the hair on our heads.  Whose is longer?  Humans, of course.  If one is to believe science, then one understands that such an adaptation occured because humans had a need for more hair on their heads. If hair on our heads was completely useless, humans would be nearly bald, similar to the hair on the rest of our bodies.

Yes, but have you considered that it may now just mainly an serve aesthetic purposes? Or maybe even some reason neither of us has considered?

But our gurus and our personal experience has already told us what its for, so we know for a fact, u just dont agree.

[Gupt_Singh]

WJKK WJKF

I called it a sham because it was trying to be passed off as scientific research paper, when it obviously is not. The author had not intention of looking at the subject matter objectively because they had already made up their mind before hand.

everyone has an objective before writing an essay. it would be silly to claim someone is totally neutral, then writes their essay, totally balanced for and against, and suddenly goes "oh, now ive finished, ill read my own essay, and ive decided that i believe x now"

where has the author tried to pass it off as a research paper? its a very simply written essay. you are assuming it is a research paper, why?

If this was just another forum post I wouldn't have called it a sham, because then it is just opinion; but I will call it a sham if people attempt to pass it off as scientific research paper.

:D theres no evidence its meant to be a research paper. i would class it as a few reasons, some of which scientifically based, which show why sikhs shoul

d keep kesh?

Why? It is pretty self defeating to bring in spirituality to a discussion of hair in the context of evolution.

considering humans evolved from apes, and apes have no capacity to realise spirituality whilst humans do, it would be incredibly stupid not to bring spirituality into it. if you explored your inner mind a little more you would realise that half our purpose in life relates to spirituality.

By not doing "research"?

can u refute parts which all ill-researched then? :umm:

You assume that I am brainwashed by society to do this. In another thread I made the statement that I was a socialist. I will repeat it here. Yet I live in the United States which moves more and more to the right every passing decade. If I was brainwashed by society to conform to its standards would it make sense that I would be more of a right wing conservative than being a pinko commie?

Maybe I do all of those things because i find them ascetically pleasing. Have you ever though of that?

i couldnt care less what political persuasions you are under. you find it a

scetically pleasing - why??? because society has deemed it to be ascetically pleasing. for a supposedly clever person your not very introspective, nor do u appear to be thinking at all. in olden days it was considered more appealing for a woman to be tubby and white, now it is considered more appealing for a woman to be skinny and tanned. that is because society determines what we believe, regardless of whether you are a commie or a right wing person.

Again you are bringing in spirituality to a discussion that is about hair with respect to evolution.

as i said before, it would be silly not to, considering that our main purpose in life is to explore spirituality. maybe for you, its just to eat, sleep and fulfill worldly desires - if so, thats good for you. but you will have to open your mind *momentarily* and have a look at hte concept of spirituality and how it links with humans.

http://www.chemguide.co.uk/atoms/bonding/metallic.html

http://mychemistrypage.future.easyspace.co...ng/metallic.htm

http://dl.clackamas.cc.or.us/ch104-08/metallic.htm

sorry but i am talking as to EXACTLY why metallic bonding works.....i have talked to PHD chemists and they admit.....no one knows! i am not talking about a school-standard explanation of metallic bonding. i am talking about exactly why. and unfortu

nately you wont find an answer until a scientist discovers it. just like people such as dr ian stevenson are "discovering" how reincarnation might be possible.

I don't have any links to answer your question of helium and it has been some time since I studied chemistry (sorry, it's not my emphasis) but I beleve it has something to do with is atomic structure. Search google.

again, if you had a fundamental knowledge of chemistry, which even i barely have, it would be obvious to you that no one knows why! if you dont believe me, talk to some real chemists.

Again, I will reiterate, this is a discussion on hair in the context of evolution (if I am not mistaken) please stay on topic.

i think its appropriate actually. dont u want to broaden discussion :umm:

Yes, but have you considered that it may now just mainly an serve aesthetic purposes? Or maybe even some reason neither of us has considered?

so through millions of years of evolution, survival of the fittest organisms, passing their genes on to perfect the genetic make up of a person, a fat clump of hair has randomly dropped off the

chin of a man and huge amount of hair has grown of the hair of men and women to serve aesthetic purposes???????? thats a very very weak explanation. i expected better.

[Shinda]

I think many of you mistook and not fully understood Miss/Mrs/Mr R. Dorothy Wayneright (who from herein will be known as D.W for ease of typing) post(s).

The real debate is not whether science is the end all and know of all science as Khalsa Soulja indicated in his post, nor is it a post in terms of Science over Faith as I personally found from the posts by MKhalsa.

Rather D.W was refuting a scientific claim posted within this thread (first post). Khalsa provided an essay on hair, which was not well written for this type of argument as it took a bias from an early point.

Khalsa Soulja did make a good point that their is no such thing as writing without a bias however many times or not, scientific papers the goal is to educate without bias by showing both sides of the story and in the end leave it up to the reader to decide. Rather then showing your bias and then proving it.

Just felt like adding my two cents as I was bored.

Anyways God Bless you all and may all you radiate with the divine light.

[Hari]

R. Dorothy Wayneright said:

Maybe I do all of those things because i find them ascetically pleasing. Have you ever though of that?

Did you mean ascetically or aesthetically?

I'm surprised that you R. Dorothy Wayneright would find something ascetic and pleasing.Now I really am confused :umm:

By the way, ascetically isn't a word.There is ascetic and asceticism.

[Guest SaintSoldier]

Science Nay Dorothy Da Dahmagh Khrab Kita Ah

[Vir Singh]

Eah Nastic bibi Narakhaa'ch Chittar Beating khougee.

[simmal tree]

Dear Sister Dorothy,

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Vaaheguroo Jee kaa Khaalsaa

Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fatheh !!

Thanks for your participation on this board.

Just as a "bottom line" - whether Dr. Birendra Kaur likes it or not, and whether you or my brother MKhalsa or anyone else likes it or not, the issue of "KES" is outside of science.

Guru Gobind Singh, besides the other thousands of miraculous accomplishments in his life, was able to recount by memory approximately 1430 (of the current page size) pages of sacred verses written by the previous Gurus (who were the same light of Truth essentially) - which if you compare it to the page size of your common textbook, it would be about 3000 pages - and he was able to recite this verbally to Bhai Mani Singh, who wrote it down as the Guru compiled the final version of the Guru Granth Sahib.

Somebody of such amazing mental capacity, who Bhai Nand Lal called "The King of Kings and Slave of Slaves" and who Bhai Gurdas Singh exclaimed with "'Wonderful! Wonderful Gobind Singh, himself the Guru and Sikh in one."

Somebody of such supreme intelligence and spiritual presence, which was known by Sikhs as the living light of God complete, "Gur Govind har kaa roop naa" (Guru gobind Singh is the embodiment of God)

Such a person, that Guru Gobind Singh, said to his Sikhs - "Do not come to have my blessings without your weopons on your body and uncut hair."

I cannot speak for you. Perhaps you are an extremely spiritually elevated soul. Howev

er, being that this living light is my Enlightener, my father, mother and full-fledged Master, I would not doubt his authority.

You are right, if God gave us a brain she would want us to use it. God also gave us a spirit. God also gave us Guru Nanak.

The purpose of the brain is to perform the actions required to fulfil the purpose of the spirit.

Our purpose is spiritual fulfillment, not mental.

NOne of our scientific and worldly intelligence, monetary and social stature, or popularity will be able to leave with our soul when our physical body becomes ashes and dust.

The only thing that is always with you - your soul - is your actions, the written account of your karma, and your assets, the written value of your spiritual dedication to God's name.

Therefore I would humbly put this request at your feet, even if some ignorant or unknowing person BEGS you to explain the scientific significance of hair, refuse their request - as none of us have the capacity to explain it within the means of science.

It is like saying . . . "Here is a FORK - now... illustrate to me, in a few words, the depth, expanse and properties of the Ocean."

If you are genuinely interested in finding out the spiritual significance of hair, and the significance to sikhs, you may keep it and practice the teachings (if you are practicing another religion - then follow that faithfully).

Otherwise - to anybody who is arguing with our sister, please stop tormenting her. She was just giving you her scientific perspective. And sister, please take my requests into consideration. Thank you.

Please forgive me if I said anything offensive in the above post.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!