life after death

[Mkhalsa]

wow.. this thread is becoming kind of like who i was against who i am (except for the sex/hair part)

hmm...

Yes, that is gurmat, or gurus teachings, but that is not all of it. Sikhi is also about worship to get closer to god.

God is flawless correct? If he is flawless why would she act like someone with self-esteem issues (always needing to be reassured about her greatness?)

I often hear people saying the god/human relationship is similar to parent/child relationship. Do sikhs believe it is as well?

If it is, then let me ask you this, would you want your kid to go around praising you all day? I sure wouldn't. I would tell them to do do something productive with their lives instead of praising me all day. Wouldn't it make sense that god wants you to do something productive with your life as well instead of thinking of her all day?

I used to think like that exactly. But our gurus teach that god is our father, mother, husband, wife, brother, sister, uncle aunt.. he is all of these and more.. he is the only true relation.. so if you were married or u have a really hot boyfriend say.. dont u go around all day thinking about him? what about the

next time u will see him, isnt this something u spend all ur time thinking about? couldnt u be doing something productive? well if god is my only wife, then whats wrong with me being so in love and infatuated with god? i dont see anything bad about it..

its not really about that.. its through remembering, not necessarily praising, god that we will get closer.. just like if u are always thinking about ur boyfriend u tend to get closer to him.. the more u think about him.. the more u are hot for him or the more u like him etc.. its the same thing with god.. the closer we get to god the more we will realize him and the true love.. then we will see him and be with him.. while still here on earth in our bodies.. its a bit complicated to explain but this is known as jeevan mukht.. which could mean saved whiled alive.. meaning they have already joined with god before having died.

Yes and no.. there is no "hell" persay.. but there are rebirths. say you love having sex, u might be born a rabbit in ur next life and have lots of sex, and lots of children, or maybe a prostitute. in other words, you reap what u sew. If you love money, our guru says you will be reborn as a serpeant, why? because u probably were already a snake with ur money as a human.

I love money. I work very hard to obtain as much of it as I can. I love it because I can buy myself all the luxuries I have ever desired. Want that $2,000 dress? No problem, it's mine. Want that $5,000 ottoman? No problem, it's mine. But I also give huge amounts of to charity and always advocate the raising of t

axes (especially one the well off like myself) to provide more social programs for those that are in need of help.

I love money and actively work hard to get more. Please explain to me again why I would be born as a snake (I assume you think snakes are bad or evil or something)?

see u might not see that as a punishment.. its ur choice.. u can keep reincarnating.. it might be kewl for a while.. but sooner or later u soul will want more.. basically thats the only hell or punishment.. to be stuck in this illusion for eternity.. just to keep trying to get closer to god.. thats it..

we dont beleive in any eternal hell.. what kind of loving god would let us rot in hell for eternity? wouldnt that make god evil? ... god is loving and caring, he forgives, he allows for mistakes, he knows we are imperfect.. tahts how he created us..

I do not see the things you do (such as having sex or cutting ur hair) as pleasure. In fact our gurus tell us this is pain. its just temporary pleasure.

But you see, it is extended pleasure to me. If I didn't have these things, if I didn't feel like I looked good (cut my hair), if I didn't get laid once in a while, I wouldn't really feel so good either. If I don't feel good I can't give my best into my work. These things keep me going. The same way buying expensive dresses and furniture keep me happy. Don't you think these "vices" are a fair trade off for what I give back to the community? Don't you think god would allow me to

have these "vices" when you look at my life in context? After all, I don't hurt anyone with these "vices" instead these "vices" allow me to give back much more.

What have you accomplished once your orgasm is over? is this true happiness?

What have you accomplished when you finish a meal? You can think of sex as metal food for me. It keeps me happy and going everyday.

isnt there something more than doing gross acts with someones genitals and trading ur fluids? dont u find that gross?

I find nothing gross about it. After all do you think your hair is gross? No, because your god gave it to you correct? Why do you find just another body part _that is vital to your survival_ that god gave you disgusting?

true bliss is eternal bliss which u experience every day and every night for eternity.

Again, you think that gratification ends at the end of sex. It doesn't. Like I said above, think about it as mental food.

doing naam simran.. is the ultimate orgasm.. trust me when i say this.. its probably a million times better than sex.. i know a lot of converts who can even attest to this.. why? because instead of j

oining with another human being lusting after their fake body (which is only temporary) u are joining with everything, the universe, god him/her/themself.

perhaps u have not looked hard enough, or experienced true religion or true spirituality, and u gave up too soon? dont sell urself short.

I don't sell myself short, I believe in myself and the power and brilliance of mankind in Sol, that's exactly why I question authority and want sound logical reason before I accept anything.

i too reject all authority. I cant stand people telling me what to do. but, i know my own experience. and i know god exists for a FACT. i dont need someone to tell me that, i had people telling me that and i didnt beleive them, i found out for myself. I know the spiritual exists for a fact. Sikhs have so much control over the spiritual and this realm that many can fly, read minds, have psychokenisis, tell the future, take on others bodies shapes, talk to the dead, and many other powers.. but sikhs do not use these powers, its forbidden. why? because these powers too are vices to distract u from god.. this is why they are evil.. while u are having sex, u are thinking about this temporary world, this temporary person, and forgetting all that is eternal.. this is why teh vices are evil. they take u from the truth. and u beleive them and what they tell u. they are demons. (i know now im sounding like one of htem christian preacher conservatives, i cant stand them) but taht part is the truth.

. demons are here, they play with ur head.. do funny stuff..

naam is the only way to get rid of them.

[Hari]

It is because we owe it to our ancestors who were tortured and killed for not converting to Islam.

That hardly seems like a good reason. Why would you owe your ancestors anything?

I owe them my life.Without their sacrifices I wouldn't be here right now, replying to your be-izzat (disrespectful) response.Without Guru Gobind Singh and the Khalsa, I wouldn't be here enjoying life.

We wouldn't exist.You would not have been here on this Sikh forum.They (Moghul Empire) didn't just want Sikh killed, but wanted to destroy our religion.They were sytematically destroying Sikh and Sikhi (Sikhism).

If they'd have succeeded, you would never have heard of Sikh and Sikhi.

So that is why I say you do my ancestors be-izzati (great disrespect) when you say:

Why would you owe your ancestors anything?

Please refrain from doing further be-izzati.Thank you.

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I'm not a baptised Sikh but i am learning alot and I am headed that way. Nonetheless I'm here to learn.

So Dorothy from what I read on your posts. Basically you are a <admin-cut> who likes to read up on religons and like to amuse yourself by coming on forums and asking for scientific explanations?

[Guest noonespecial]

Dorothy,

You speak alot of the betterment of man. What have you done for the betterment of your own soul? Your views on spending money to help aid equality is more of a political philosphy than a spiritual one, no? I know science is a major part of you becuase you wish to be logical in your views on EVERYTHING. But Sikhism cannot be explained by your scientific rules. Have you ever thought that some things on this earth might be BEYOND the grasp or explanation of Science? You claim you have meditated and felt nothing. Does that mean that there is nothing in meditation for everyone or just you? I would argue that you do not feel anything because you do not meditate in full faith. Without faith aren't your efforts just empty? I support your right to feel whatever you wish to feel and follow whatever path you wish to follow, but I find it odd that you come to THIS forum and question me about mine. There is a difference in learning about Sikhi (as many people do on this forum) and trying to refute Sikhi which is what it feels like you try to do. I say "try" because despite all your well thought out arguements, your words have had no effect on me or anyone on this site. HOw do you expect to learn anything from Sikhi or experience anything when your cynical view prohibits you from accepting something that cannot be explained by you?

[Singh 5]

If someone chooses to not believe in Akaal, then what can anyone say? I believe there is a creator who created me and everything else and resides in everything. I feel happy when I feel myself becoming closer to him. I don't praise Akaal to satisfy him, I do it because it feels good and feels right. If I don't praise him, then he loses nothing, but I lose a purpose in my life and miss the whole point of my creation: to have merged with him.

What is the difference between a Dog and a human who does no bhagtee/devotion? Both the dog and human seek a place to live (shelter), both seek tasty food, both like to be entertained and played with and yes, both seek out pleasure through lust. Perhaps the methods both use are different, but are the goals listed any different? I dont' think so. Perhaps a dog is better because he can be a very good friend and many humans are incapable of doing this. So are we to say that a human and a dog are no different in terms of what they want? No. Humans for the longest time have felt that there is some higher purpose. Not just thought, but felt it. This higher purpose is spirituality.

All other pleasures leave the person feeling empty. If I eat or sastisfy other bodily urges, I feel good for a time right after. I entertain myself and for a time I feel good. But soon I have to go and find bodily pleasure again because it has passed and I feel the same as before. Perhaps worse since I don't feel "good" anymore. Gurmat is about finding the lasting peace and happiness that's not based on the physical i.e the transitory. How can anyone prove this to you when it's an experience? How can I prove to you sugar is

sweet unless you yourself have tasted it?

As for heaven/hell and rewards: if you decide to cut your hair, or whatever, Sikhi does not say you will go to hell. Nor does Sikhi claim that non-Sikhs will go to hell. If someone acted honestly and did good on earth, they will go to heaven. Though heaven is not a permanent place and after a period there, they will enter the circle of births and deaths. Same with hell for those that act wrongly and do not do good. In baaNee we read "nark surag, fir fir avtaar" ie. hell, heaven and then endless rebirth. All these three things are not what a Sikh desires. A Sikh longs to return and embrace Akaal and be lost in him. This is possible in Sach Khand. And the way to do this is Gurmat.

But you don't believe this? Then that's fine. No one is forcing you to believe and if your karma are not allowing you to do this, who can blame you? You think you can help others while living a life to satisfy your bodily urges: when someone is an obstacle to your physical happiness, how will you help them? In fact you will oppose them. If someone needs your help and it seems to cost you something or possibly put you in some danger, etc. you will likely not get involved. Why would you? Your body is the source of your pleasure and once the body is gone, it's -over- so of course you'll try to extend your time in the game as much as possible and avoid any cost to the body.

Only a spiritual person who is above the body can truly live a life of helping because s/he is above the world and it's pains/pleasures. A par-upkaari or one who does good for others does so because they can see Akaal in everything and the end of the physical is no final end. The only thing that matters is the relationship to Akaal. But one who sees the body as everything will not be willing to sacrifice for others.

In any event, to you, your path and to me, mine. Is this discussion worth continuing then? I think not.

[Gupt_Singh]

lol @ "basically you are a <admin-cut>"

[Pheena]

Ma'am Dorothy ji,

This is just my thought on your posts. I think you need to define the difference between what sex is and what lust is. What is need and what is Greed.

Sex is the natural course of Nature. Lust is like what was once a small fire that was burning has now become a Blaze which is now out of control. What was once a Spark now has become a Burning Flame which ingolfes your Awareness into the desire for Lust. You do not realize that what you are lusting over is nothing but skin and bones. You are being lustfull of Dirt. Do not mis-interpret this as i am putting down the body, but a fact is that the body is nothing more than Dirt. It should be used as a Car. Without the soul-driver the body is nothing but dirt-metal. Lust is Attachment to dirt which drives you away from your path.

Even god gives you what you want, if you still have the desire of sex which acts like a seed , then you will reincarnate to reap the fruit of that seed. which is your decision not gods'. He does not make you do nething. You plant your desires, so YOU WILL reap its fruit. No ifs or buts about it. You have to undestand as long as you have desire, then you will come back and back to this earth of heaven and hell to complete those desire. Same can be said to that who want to find god. To find god one must pass thru a lifetime. But their path is of Awareness, they realize that difference between Lust and Sex. Between need and greed. God created sex, not lust, God created Death, not Murder. God created Love, not Attachment. God created Need not Greed. The Mind of Man created these...not God.

What will a $2000 dollar dress do to you,

boost your self-esteem, make you feel good about yourself, so you need materialistic thing to feel good to be happy?? Hapiness is a state of mind, for which things are not required. Things make you more worry some and if you have NOthings now worries. it will make other jelous of you or perhaps even talk bad about you. But you'll say i don't care what other think. That is fine, but why can't you be happy with a 50 or 100 dollar dress instead of wasting 2000 dollars on clothing. You like to share your wealth, but why couldn't you spend 500 dollars on a dress and give 1500 dollars of that money to the poor?? For how much longer you will like that dress, perhaps for a few years and as our body changes that dress will become useless, hence what was one worn with great happiness is now nothing more that which is left hanging in a closet. Do that which will remain with you forever. Do that which will not Fade or Tear. Your own body will not remain with you. Do that which is Permanent. Do not carry desires for the materialistic world with you as they will the be the cause of your reincarnation.

It is not to say do not live comfortablly. Live you live as comfortablly as you can, but do not over-exagerate it to where you are buying and doing useless thing. Do those which are necessary to further progress you on this path of Spirituality not which takes you away from the path. The gurus have said that the 5 vices. Lust, Greed, Attachment, Anger, Ego drive you away from your desired destination.

Now its up to you to see if Lust drives you away from your spiritual path or not. If suddenly you have the desire for sex and it is time for meditation, the train is leaving, it will not wait for you to have sex and then u can leave which will you choose??? If you choose Sex then it is taking u away from your spiritual path hence it is a vice. If you choose meditation, it will take you away from Lust which intern leads you on the path. Lust is depent on another to fullfill that d

esire. You need another, the spiritual path is the path of lonliness, only you can walk on this path, no one can walk with you, someone can guide you, but you will have to ultimatly walk on it. To have expectation of another that he should have sex with you, sets u up for attachment to a male. So without a male you are not fullfilled. You are not using your vices to help Man. You are not helping a man enjoy his pleasure, but further sending him down the path of LUST along with yourself.

The object is to be fullfilled from within, not outside. Fullfilled from within, the desire for the outside world diminshes. You are basing your hapiness of money/lust from the outside world. A world which is constantly changing, and one day it too will not remain. Your expectation of someone will one day bring you pain, becasue in the end no one will go with you, only you will leave and you will leave that 5000 dollar dress for someone else, the man which pleased u sexually will not remain either, but u will be alone and all that will remain is your desire for Lust and Money. Because in the End man remember that which he desired for his whole life. That which he enjoyed in his life. That which he could not have. That which he lost. That which he wished he could have done. Some even think that i will remember god in the end and i will be saved, but in that time only those who have remember god in their mind in their lifetime can remember god at their last moments. When death comes it brings this overwhelming feeling that everything is fading away, it is slowly slipping away from you. What will you grab on to?? your 5000 dollar dress??? You man who pleased you sexually, even he can't help you. In the end all you ahve is your self. no one else.

Waheguru.

[Hum Paapi]

waheguru waheguru

well said pheena veerji

[Guest SikhForLife]

well said.. pheena dude ji..

its true.. and its a shame how many of us forget this.. we r so busy with our life.... trying to gain this temp. worldy wealth that we forget whats really important.. i m not saying go to some forrest and start praying.. but just cuz u got money doesnt mean u gotta forget God.. go ahead make money and serve the people.!!!!! cuz isnt that where Waheguru really is?!!! in people.. and beings.. and around us.

[Jkaur]

superb reply pheena ji