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kam1825

Panj Piyareeaa instead of Panj Piyaray

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!

Yea Hari made a valid point!! Its not a sexism issue, you can make it that if you want.

It doesn't matter if the society has evolved so much, and in some cases women exceed men, but who are you to say women should be the panj pyaray. Guru sahib, gave a hukam, and we are mere keeday (insects) of Guru sahib, how can we even think about changing/altering his command?  rolleyes.gif

Leh, All u guys keep going on about Guru ji's Hukam, Can u tell me What Hukam, please?

This is definatly a sexism issue, i don't think it is Guru ji's Hukam its more to do with Punjabi thinking. :umm:

how can we even think about changing/altering his command?

Hunji, keri command :umm:

Edited by Amardeep_singh

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Amardeep Singh,

I can see you are very passionate about this issue. Now i hate being called a sexist because i honestly believe i am not but God knows better then me. If we are to change and have females initiate the amrit sanchiar we will become like the Christians in the way that the religion will split in two. We already have enough problems trying to control the faith and become one. These issues are what create discontent in the minds of people as we have seen with the Groups like the Turana Dal and Bhudda Dal. We have Nihangs and AKJs. We have Namdharis and Nirinkaris.

We are going to split again. The way the guru initiated it. So it should stay. If this was the case that females would be allowed to give out amrit. Surely it would have been in the Bandgi Nama or a Hukam nama during the times of the guru written by the great souls of the ages like Bhai Nand Lal Singh. Remember Satguru Gobind Singh Jee still was with the panth for 9 years.

After Guru Jee had gone Mata Sahib Kaur gave out Hukam Namas to Baba Binod Singh she could have mentioned this issue then if it was allowed but it wasn't. It seems to be a taboo to even think about changing what the guru started.

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

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Amar,

Guru Gobind Singh ji initiated the Khalsa, his hukam is that the panj pyaray will be the only ones to give amrit to singhs/kaurs. He didn't say 'Panj pyareea', so we need to take it as his hukam, because that is what he said. IF HE SAID MY 5 KHALSA CAN GIVE AMRIT to anyone, then it could be females, males, youth, whoever BUT BUT, he said my panj pyaray

When you take amrit, you will know! :umm:

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lol

Bro, you're getting a little out of context here..hahah..

Ban women from Sikhi altogether?????? LOL, that was just stupid, bro no-one here is trying to put women down, all the posts were clearly stated that women and men are equal no difference...If you understand the meaninng of 'PANJ PYARAY' then you would understand! rolleyes.gif

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lol i no wot it means but it was called the pyare becuz they were all men

please describe why women are incapable of giving amrit.

dont say "it was gurus hukam" because everything in sikhi is based on logic. since guruji never explicitly said women cant give amrit, if there is no logical reason then it is just dogma!

also, please give me a historical source which shows that women took amrit. if u cant, then shall we assume that women cant take amrit at all?

sikhi is a modern religion. it is based on gender equality. if a women is spiritually able, the only reason u are stopping her giving amrit is because u are sexist.

any penjis here who want to comment?

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Guest SikhForLife

wat the heck!

veerji.. woman are equal.. does that mean anything to u?

equal unconditionally..

one reason why men got up that day of 1699 could be because indian culture is sexist.. if indian culture at the time had placed women before men.. then I BET 100% that only women had gotten up that day!!!

culture is sexist !! does that mean our religion/theology is? absolutly not!!

i say YES to women panj payarey

Edited by SikhForLife

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Women are allowed to do and have equal hand in whatever men do in any sikh religious duty.. Whether it's panj piyaraees duty or whether it's granthi duty.. Sikhi just simply cast no bar on male/female..

It's good to see other ppls view on this.. But remember sikhi is 100% open to both men and women no matter what..

Edited by Vicky Singh

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Guest Akaal108
wat the heck!

veerji.. woman are equal.. does that mean anything to u?

equal unconditionally..

one reason why men got up that day of 1699 could be because indian culture is sexist.. if indian culture at the time had placed women before men.. then I BET 100% that only women had gotten up that day!!!

culture is sexist !!  does that mean our religion/theology is? absolutly not!!

i say YES to women panj payarey

It has nothin with your culture theory.

If you carefully look at the fact when guroo maharaj call for the heads-

All the panj pyareiz had 200 percentage faith in guroo sahiban when they stood up. Regardless of their sexes.

In this thread or case faith in gurooo's sahiban played an important thing. Woman in the gathering of keshgarh sahib didnt have that kinda faith that all the paanj pyareaiz had.

Regardless of woman having enuf time to raise the hand and volunteer. Unfortuantely, full faith in guroo's sahiban does not come like that in seconds. It takes years and years of attachment with the guroo's to have that kinda faith where you scarifice your body under maharaj's sword.

Edited by N30 S!NGH

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Alright.. this extreme discrimination and sexism is getting out of hand. and as with all topics, as soon as someone says something, a group has to be blamed doesnt it? well dont lump akj in with just 3h0 yet.. sgpc also allows women..

other smaller groups in india also allow women..

guru jee said all women are equal right? he also said all castes and colors are equal too right? but only 5 people of certain castes who were punjabi in ethnicity stood up.. so does that mean that goray singhs cant have punj pyare? does it mean that people not of those castes of the original punj cant be punj either? just because a woman didnt stand up THEN doesnt mean she cant stand up NOW.. just because there werent any white people THEN doesnt mean they cant be in the punj NOW... does the comparison make sense?

and about the sexist culture.. yes it probably was there.. but thats why the gurus were there to STOP it.. they got RID of it.. until we all ended up hiding in the forests for so many decades every1 just reverted..

regards to the word panj pyare.. it is incorrect to ridicule panj pyare and call them punj pyareeaa.. if anyone knows basic punjabi grammar and ways to give respect it is always punj pyare.. we make words plural when giving respect such as instead of Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawala its Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawalae.. just as respected keertani Bibi Harjeet Kaur Moga Walae is not Moga Walee.. so again.. your arguments make no sense..

bhul chuck MAAF

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wat the heck!

veerji.. woman are equal.. does that mean anything to u?

equal unconditionally..

one reason why men got up that day of 1699 could be because indian culture is sexist.. if indian culture at the time had placed women before men.. then I BET 100% that only women had gotten up that day!!!

culture is sexist !! does that mean our religion/theology is? absolutly not!!

i say YES to women panj payarey

It has nothin with your culture theory.

If you carefully look at the fact when guroo maharaj call for the heads-

All the panj pyareiz had 200 percentage faith in guroo sahiban when they stood up. Regardless of their sexes.

In this thread or case faith in gurooo's sahiban played an important thing. Woman in the gathering of keshgarh sahib didnt have that kinda faith that all the paanj pyareaiz had.

Regardless of woman having enuf time to raise the hand and volunteer. Unfortuantely, full faith in guroo's sahiban does not come like that in seconds. It takes years and years of attachment with the guroo's to ha

ve that kinda faith where you scarifice your body under maharaj's sword.

OHHHHHHHHHHHH

so now your saying women lack faith and therefore can never have enough faith to become panj.. i seeee....

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Guest Akaal108

I dont think anyone on this forum actually cares about what british created sgpc do or thinks about this issue.

You can change their views by sendin them whisky bottles grin.gif

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If you carefully look at the fact when guroo maharaj call for the heads-

All the panj pyareiz had 200 percentage faith in guroo sahiban when they stood up. Regardless of their sexes.

In this thread or case faith in gurooo's sahiban played an important thing. Woman in the gathering of keshgarh sahib didnt have that kinda faith that all the paanj pyareaiz had.

Veerjeee.. you are rite that the first panj piyaress had full faith in guru sahibs.. But bro this doesn't mean that EVERY panj piyaree these days are exactly the have savem faith as does those panj piyaraees who went to the stage on the day of vaisakhi of 1699.. All Im saying is that if guru jee wanted us to have only male gender as panj piyaraaees, then i think our guru sahib jee had made it very clear to everyone.. BUT guru jee didn't.. SO as a sikhi, gurbani fact we can't say that females are not allowed to serve as panj piyaraaes..

Personally can someone give me any reason why you think that they are not allowed? What's difference? Only in physical appearance ! but still why not they can't be one of 5 piyaraees?

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Guest Akaal108
OHHHHHHHHHHHH

so now your saying women lack faith and therefore can never have enough faith to become panj.. i seeee....

If you read my post carefully MAHA PURAN BHRAMGYANI KHALSA JI ...you will find i m talkin woman who were there that time..not woman in general.

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Guest Akaal108
Personally can someone give me any reason why you think that they are not allowed? What's difference? Only in physical appearance ! but still why not they can't be one of 5 piyaraees?

vicky veer ji,

What is gur maryada(discipline) is gur maryada. Who are we to change that???. Nobody is arguing that woman cant get salvation(merge with guroo) but we are following maryada of amrit tradition from guroo's time(1699) event. If during the time (1699-1708) there was no woman in panj pyaraiz. What makes you think we should have them now??. The whole cause of this was those woman who had lack of faith in gathering of amrit(khanda) di phaul.

You can related in which ever way you want.

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