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kam1825

Panj Piyareeaa instead of Panj Piyaray

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Sadhsangat,

AKJ's in Leicester are doing my head in saying it is ok to have five females initiate the khalsa as taking the place of the five beloved. Sant Baba Hari Singh Jee took that motion to bits and put them straight. I will hook Gurmat Veechar with that Katha as i have it.

What are you view on it. Are you for againts or not sure. Give us reasons for your thoughts. Hopefully this will some eye brows and emotions

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Baba Hari Singh Jee did katha of what took place in 1699 with the creation of the khalsa. During the events five males got up and gave their heads to the guru. After this guru jee gave their raj to the panj piyaray. They also called the females kaur. Baba Hari Singh Jee said that Kaur means the child of a king other then the first born. They are always the child of the king but when he passes away they have no throne or right to the kingdom. Only the first born gets the supreme control over the kingdom and people.

Baba Hari Singh Jee explained that the males got the raj and Guru ji said the females will also be the children of the master but will never be able to appoint another as they have no control over the kingdom they are handing over.

They also went into an old story from the Dharamshasters about the difference between men and women on birth and on motherhood.

I'd suggest waiting for the Katha to come onto the net for the full.

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Sadhsangat,

AKJ's in Leicester are doing my head in saying it is ok to have five females initiate the khalsa as taking the place of the five beloved. Sant Baba Hari Singh Jee took that motion to bits and put them straight. I will hook Gurmat Veechar with that Katha as i have it.

What are you view on it. Are you for againts or not sure. Give us reasons for your thoughts. Hopefully this will some eye brows and emotions

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Actually if AKJ are doing this in UK then i got one thing to say

"GO AKj" :umm:

To our Waheguru and Guru sahibs, both sikh male and female are Pyare. Just because the gender difference , you can't say that one does not have the right to be one of the panj payares.

I don't agree with anyone stopping female singhiyans from being one of the panj pyare because i can't see any justification for it. Please give ur reason as to why females can't

be Panj payariyans?

Baba Hari Singh Jee explained that the males got the raj and Guru ji said the females will also be the children of the master but will never be able to appoint another as they have no control over the kingdom they are handing over.

hmmm,Mai Bhago ji had no control over the singh she led to fight against Mughals.

Sikhi offers 100% equality to both sexes and its up to them to demand it when someone is gender discreminating .

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Sadhsangat,

I do not have the knowledge needed to argue with you. I will post the katha to Gurmat Veerchar and hopefully soon you will be able to listen to it yourself.

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh!

I agree with Kam!! wubb.gif

I don't have anything against women being Guru sahib's panj pyari. I see both men and women as equal. BUT we have to live according to the hukam of our dasve patshah, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj. He initiated the Khalsa, thru the panj pyaray, not thru the panj pyari. I don't know what sort of a impact this will have, but its out of context of Sikhi, obviously we should see both men and women as equal, but Guru sahib laid the foundation for taking amrit in the future, and if we try to change that or mend it in any way, we are going against the hukam. rolleyes.gif If there was any woman who got up to sacrifice her head for Guru ji, then there would be a woman in the panj pyaray as well. B)

Bhul chuk maaf!

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh!

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I don't have anything against women being Guru sahib's panj pyari. I see both men and women as equal. BUT we have to live according to the hukam of our dasve patshah, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj. He initiated the Khalsa, thru the panj pyaray, not thru the panj pyari. ............................ If there was any woman who got up to sacrifice her head for Guru ji, then there would be a woman in the panj pyaray as well. B)

Yes but at that time women didn't use to goto school, Does that mean that same thing shud happen now?

Just because no woman came forward that day, i don't think their right to join Panj pyaaree was taken away :umm:

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Guest Akaal108

I also agree with kam and khalsa.

Its all about following hakum of guroo sahiban. Its not like we should stuck our nose and sing praises of woman equality in this matter.

We all know orginal panj pyareiz was male not female. So who are they to change the maryada??

Akj and 3HO doing the same thing.

Really sad indeed.

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Guest Akaal108
I can't believe u guys ohmy.gif Guru ji's Hukam?

Did Guru ji say that Women can't be panj pyaares? If u can show me that i will agree with u.

It was more an guroo maryada than a hakum.

Amardeep singh,

you show me panj pyarie being as female in guroo's time..during the period of 1699 to 1708.

Any historical facts?

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N30 Veer u know as well as i know, Common Woman had to follow watever the men said. So its very unlikely they wud have allowed their women to become Panj piyariyas.

But can u explain wat Guru Maryada is?

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Each time Sacche Patshah Guru Gobind Singh asked for a head on Baisakhi 1699, only men stood up to voluntarily offer their heads, no women stood up.Five men, hence Guru-Khalsa = five Amritdhari men.

Five Amritdhari women is not Guru-Khalsa.This is not a sexism issue, you can make it into one if you want to.

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!

Yea Hari made a valid point!! Its not a sexism issue, you can make it that if you want.

It doesn't matter if the society has evolved so much, and in some cases women exceed men, but who are you to say women should be the panj pyaray. Guru sahib, gave a hukam, and we are mere keeday (insects) of Guru sahib, how can we even think about changing/altering his command? rolleyes.gif

Ok look, Guru Nanak Dev ji maharaj already claimed Women are equal to Men, then if the women in Sikhi at the time of Guru Gobind Singh ji know all this why didn't they stand up and say women are equal to man, according to the founder of this religion, and I want to be one of the panj pyaray.

I understand women/men are equal partners and equal family members in the khalsa family, BUT the authority to give amrit to someone else only holds in the 'PANJ PYARAY' not the 'PANJ PYARIYA'.

Bhul chuk maaf jee!!

I'm a mere fool~~ :umm: @

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh!

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Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Kee Fatah

I think if a woman had offered her head as the Guru asked we may be looking at a different story. However Hukam is huKam. I know is it the Guru's Hukam and we are to be bound by it.

For the fact of showing the sangat proof is astonishing. You speak like those without any faith who say show me God and then i shall follow. This shouldn't be the case in Sikhi.

These issues have onl come up in the last 50 years thanks to civil rights movements. Remember the roots of Sikhism are deep and these things should not be ripped apart due to what a person thinks. We are all susceptable to temptation and unless you have gian you will get things wrong so i think we should all continue with the path that the Guru showed us.

I hope i have not caused any one any offence

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

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vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

i agree with khalsa veer,n30 veer and hari veer this is not a sexism issue,but just hukam of guru sahib and veer we should follow it bhul chuk maaf rolleyes.gif

Edited by khalsa_007

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