Panj Piyareeaa instead of Panj Piyaray

[kam1825]

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

Brave khalsa may the guru bless you bhram gian.

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

[bravekhalsa]

I gotta give you a big japhee mere veer and forgive me if I said anything against you personally. may guru sahib give his brahm gyan to everyone! specially you.

[Balait_da_Sher]

Waheguru jee Ka KhalsaWaheguru Jee Kee Fatah

I no i'm going to get grief for this. But I accept the word from Sants as gospal and will not change my mind on this matter. If you have faith in Sants as i have you would understand. I suggest the best person to ask this subject to would be the daughter of a Sant. I will go to Manni Karan next year. The sant has a daughter there who is also regardred as a sant. She is as spiritual as you can get. I will ask her but i know myself what she will say and that is no as her father has done that parchar himself.

Remember this is a religion you are trying to change no civil liberty issues should be involved.

Equality must always remain however some things are to remain as they are and always have been. The traditionalist would agree.

by the way the Katha which started this has now been sent to Gurmatveechar.com and hopefully will be up on the net soon.

Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fatah

I belive in Sants and brahmgiyanis to a certain extent. One should only try to follow their life style not their Teachings. We have Guru Granth sahib ji to Guide us, so going to Sants and thier daughters are not necessary.

Remember this is a religion you are trying to change no civil liberty issues should be involved.

No one is changing any religion, all we are trying to do is leave the cultural bagage behind.

Equality must always remain however some things are to remain as they are and always have been. The traditionalist would agree.

Veer ji wat if tradition is outdated? Some traditions and practises need to change with time.

[guruvah]

wahegurooo je ka khalsa wahegurooo je ki fateh!!!!

i am replying to :g the topic which JUST came out.......................

piareoooo.....what u are going to read after this is a question asked by a gurmukh piara to a VERY HIGH AVASTA WALE GURU KE PIARE .......i won't name him.......this is the question:

GURMUKH: CAN five amritdhari women(pyaris) give amrit to the new initiates in GURU JE'S

house?

answer by the HIGH AVASTA WALE GURU KE PIARE:

THEY COULD ONLY GIVE IF THEY HAD TAKEN THE RIGHT FROM GURU GOBIND

RAI(before he became GURU GOBIND SINGH JI) ON THAT FATEFUL DAY AT ANANDPUR SAHIB WHEN HE UN SHEATHED HIS SHINING SWORD AND ASKED FOR THE HEADS INSTEAD OF HORSES,SILVER AND GOLD.THEY *DID NOT MAKE USE OF THE OPPORTUNITY* GIVEN TO THEM BY HIM.

(i did't even changed A word from the answer)

piareo these are the bachan of a puran pursh........if u still doubt IT....RIGHT NOW go to sri guru granth sahib maharaj and ask him this question AND TAKE A HUKUMNAMA cause......GURU SAHIB IS PERFECT AND HE WILL GIVE U A PERFECT ANSWER!!!!!!

don't waste ur time ask maharaj ur self.....IF WHAT I HAVE POSTED DOES NOT CONVINCE!!!!!

WAHEGUROO JE KA KHALSA WAHEGUROOO JE KI FATEH!!!!!!!

:e:

Moderator Note : This Post ( Origanally : AGAIN!PHANJ PIAREA!!!(please read)) has been merged into this current topic because it directly relates to this topic and Das sees no need for it to be in a new topic

[me moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[r.singh]

kam 1825,

You seem to have the utmost shurda for people titled sant.

If you get a chance, go to Rara Saahib as well. When you go there, ask around and try to talk to any of the people who regularly do seva in the Panj there. Once you locate them, ask if a Bibi has ever done seva in Panj Piarey at Rara Saahib. You could also ask one of their sants (one of the Rara Branch Sants, probably not Jurg, although you could give that a try as well) when they come abroad for parchaar. Best of all, if you can, try to meet some of the older bibia who have been residing there since the time of Baba Isher Singh Jee. Ask them if they or any other bibia or a specific jatha of bibia has ever done seva as Panj at Rara.

[simmal tree]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I think those of you who are insisting that women can't be in the Punj Pyare are extremely deluded and confused. Baba Hari Singh jee may have been a great gursikh but in his katha I think he is also misunderstood about the meaning of "kaur"

Kaur comes from the word Kooar, root Kanwar of Hindi language, root Sanskrit language. It means prince. Prince is the son of the King. THEREFORE A KAUR IS THE SON, AND EQUAL TO THE SINGHS. The son of the king inherits the king's kingdom. therefore, the future of the panth IS our sisters, mothers and daughters.

Please do not be mistaken - Punjabi has gendered language, Gurmukhi goes beyond gendered language.

For example,

kursee = feminine, but it means "chair" in punjabi

sotee = feminine, but it means "cain" in punjabi

khalsa = UNISEX, it means "sovereign property" in Gurmukhi

there is NO SUCH THING AS A KHALSEE

singh = UNISEX, it means "tiger" NOT lion, in Gurmukhi

there is NO SUCH THING as a Singhnee - maybe in the animal kingdom, but not in Sikh panth

pyare = UNISEX, it means "beloveds" in Gurmukhi

there are NO SUCH THINGS as PYAAREEAA !!!!!!!!!

ALL INDIVIDUALS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR KHANDE-KE-PAHUL, AFTER WHICH THEY ALL BECOME KHALSA

ALL KHALSA ARE ELIGIBLE, if they are TRUE AND PURE KHALSA OF BEST REHIT AND SPIRITUALITY, TO BE PUNJ PYARE.

"math ko bharam bhoolay sansaar gur bin ko-ay na uthras paar"

PLEASE recognize that our LIFESTYLE, our JE

WEL OF TEACHING, this Sikhi, is *not* like all other religions or languages or cultures out there.

This is God's, this is everybody's, and this is the most unique and profound teaching there is.

I have been quite loud and obnoxious in this post for which I apologize - please accept my apologies for any errors against Gurmat, and please correct me if i made any errors against Gurmat.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[gurmeetjodhey]

beloved sangat,

this discussion i feel is going on the lines of other religions prevailing in the world. it do not belong to "sikhi" cause it had been established by the first true king (sachcha patshah) Guru Nanak Dev Ji as a principal of sikhi that there will be no differences in the sangat on the basis of gender.

the thing matters most in the AMRITPAN is PANJ BAANIES i.e. "JAPUJI SAHIB", "JAAP SAHIB", "SVAYIYE SAHIB", "CHOPEI SAHIB" & "ANAND SAHIB" and not human.

when tenth true king Guru Gobind Singh ji said "My panj pyaray will give amrit" he might not concern with the gender but the love and affection the Guru & his beloved must have with each other. PANJ PYARAY mean FIVE BELOVED gender do not matter in it at all.

bhul chook maaf. i am just in learning stage. but the possiblity of split mentioned by some of our respectable veer jis & bhain jis... well what could i say :umm:

[navjotsingh]

listen all u guys are lost. The reason there afre no women punj pyare is because no women stood up when guru ji asked for a head. if two women stood up and three men then there would be two women and three men as punj pyare fr today.We cant change whta happened in the past. You cant ask any sant or mahapursh they would give u the same answer, even sant baba hari singh says sumthing like this.

[japmans]

but does that mean that we should look for people who have the same castual background...or who are from those 5 different parts of the country?

i'm very very torn on this...i have no definitive view....but.... don't ask me why, i have no asnwer....i would feel very very wierd if i was present at an amrit sanchaar and there was women panj piyaaray...