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  1. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times when I or many other Sikhs are debating people of other faiths, I allways hear some Sikhs bring up the line: ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1350 Which is translated to mean: "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to full shabad: https://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/ang-by-ang I have asked many people about the true meaning behind this tuk, and most people would agree that its correctly translated, however there are some who would disagree, and translate it in a way that is directly the opposite of what the English translation means. Let me give you an example: Literal meaning breakdown ਬੇਦ = Literally meaning "Ved" referring to the Vedas from Sanatana Dharma (often called "Hinduism") ਕਤੇਬ = Literally meaning "books", however in the context of Bhagat Kabeer it means the three major abrehamic books: bible, quran, torah. ਕਹਹੁ = Literally meaning "Say" ਮਤ = Now this is the part that is often disputed. How one interprets this one word can change the entire shabads meaning, and even affect Sikhi as a whole. Often times people will say "mat" means "do not", however the same word is also used with different meanings. An example is the word "Gurmat", this word doesn't mean "Guru Dont". ਝੂਠੇ = Literally meaning "false" or "untrue" Differences in Opinion The AKJ founder Randhir Singh translated this tuk to mean that Bhagat Kabeer (who is technically not a Muslim but a Sikh as per Gurbani) is saying that this tuk is saying that the ved and abrehamic books are false, however most of the English translations that Sikhs read, seem to suggest the exact opposite. I am personalty not AKJ or any other jatha, and I disagree with some stuff Bhai Randir Singh says, however on this specific issue, I lean towards "ਮਤ" not meaning "do not" in this context. The reason for this is becuase if you take the entire shabad, as well as the life of Bhagat Kabeer, its obvious that hes criticizing Islamic practices, and fundamental ideas of the abrehamic regions, and the eastern dharmas under the blanket of Sanatana Dharma. People often bring up the counter argument that "all relgions/dharmas have some truth in them", and this is generally true, and varies on specific relgion or dharma, however in general, the reason Sikhi needed to be revitalized in the 4th age (Kal Yug "the dark age") was becuase all other religions and dharms had failed (as stated in Dasam Granth which is generally believed to be written by the Guru in his 10th temporal form). Bani also criticizes the vedas on other shabads, correct me if im wrong, but at one point it literally says that its make belief, so then why would the Guru contradict itself? Here is an example of a counterargument against the English translation of "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to counterargument: http://www.searchsikhism.com/islam-in-gurbani My questions for Sikh who are educated in Gurbani: What do you guys think of this? Do you think the English translation of Gurbani was deliberately changed to not offend others? If so, what is the correct way to interpret this tuk?
  2. Please could someone clarify : 1. if Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji , Dasam Guru Granth ji and Sarbloh Granth combine to bring knowledge that mean the ant of Vedas , does that mean any prophecies there post advent of Khalsa is wrong /to be ignored ? 2. Does this mean that as I have heard someplaces that Khalsa Raj is kaliki avatar ?
  3. Sikh Religion And Hinduism

    Khalsa Ji, The English book 'Sikh religion and Hinduism' has been uploaded to scribd.com. The late Gurbachan Singh M.A. London has written an analysis of the Vedas and the subsequent ancient Sanskrit scriptures. The author draws on western scholars, references from SGGS, and SDG to highlight Guru Ji's view of the ancient scriptures. This book can be read/downloaded: www.scribd.com/mokhamsingh On the same scribd page, the Punjabi book 'Hum Hindu nahin' {I am not Hindu} by Kahn Singh Nabha can be read/downloaded. The author puts the case forward, very brilliantly, that Sikhs are not Hindus. Waheguru.....
  4. Prediction of Guru Nanak Dev ji's Avtar by Ved Vyaas, Hazrat Uns, Vali Allah Pir Niyamat Ulla shah untitled.bmp
  5. I came across this website which states that Sikh Gurus believe in Vedas. I cannot find the interpretations of the shabads in relation to it's comments. http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/ On the other hand I came across this booklet which says Sikh Gurus did not believe in Vedas. http://agniveer.com/sikh-gurus-and-vedas/ Can anyone explain what Guru Sahibaans take on Vedas was and why there are pro-Veda shabds and anti-Veda shabds in Gurbani? And how would you refute someone saying Sikh is a branch of Vedic dharam?
  6. Can a brother or sister please do viakhya of this shabad by Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji. This Shabad is by Bhai Gurdas Singh in Amrit Keertan on Pannaa 282 gurubr Akwl ky hukm soN aupijE ibigAwnw [ qb sihjy ricE Kwlsw swbq mrdwnw [ ieauN auTy isMG Bbkwir kY sB jg frpwnw [ mVI dyvl gor msIq Fwih kIey mYdwnw [ byd purwn Kt swsqRw Pun imty kurwnw [ bWg slwq imtwie kir mwry sulqwnw [ mIr pIr sB Cip gey mzHbo aultwnw [ mlvwny kwjI iPir Qky kCu mrmu n jwnw [ lK pMifq bRhmn joqkI ibK rs aurJwnw [ Pun pwQr dyvl pUij kY Aiq hI Brmwnw [ ieauN dono iPrky kpt mYN rc rhy indwnw [ ieh qIsr mzhb ^wlsw aupijE prDwnw [ ijin guru hoibMd ky hukm soN gih KVg idKwnw [ iqh sB dustn kau Cyid kY Akwl jpwnw [ iPr AYsw hukm Akwl kw jg mYN pRgtwnw [ qb suMnq koie n kir skY kwipE qurkwnw [ ieauN aumq sB muhMmdI Kip geI indwnw [ qb Pqy fMk jg mY Gury duK duMd imtwnw [ ieauN qIsr pMQ rcwieAnu vf sUr ghylw [ vwh vwh goibMd isMG Awpy guru cwlw ] 16 ] With the command of the Timeless, the Supreme True Guru, proclaimed the self-realisation, And then, steadfastly, created Khalsa, the righteous ones, with the undefiled human form. The Singhs rose up roaring and whole world was over-awed. They decimated and raised to the ground the (ritualistic) cemeteries, crematoriums, temples and mosques. (Compulsive) readings of Vedas, Puranas, Six-shastras and Quran was abolished. Baangs, the calls for Muslim prayers, were ousted and the kings were abolished. Temporal and spiritual leaders were obscured, and all the religions became topsy-turvey. The Muslim priests and justices deciphered hard but could not comprehend dissolution. Millions of Brahamin scholars and astrologers were venomously entangled, And were drowned in extreme fallacies of worshipping the idols and gods. Thus, both the ignorant faiths, muffled in hypocrisy, were lagging behind. Then the third religion, Khalsa, manifested triumphantly. By the command of Guru Gobind Singh, they brandished the swords held high. They exterminated all the scoundrels and order of the Timeless One. And this way they revealed the command of the Timeless in the world. Turks, the Muslims, dreaded and none actuated the circumcision Consequently, the following of Mohammed submerged in ignorance. Then the drumbeats of victory terminated all the adversities. And thus was proclaimed the great and valorous Third Faith. Hail, hail (Guru) Gobind Singh; He, Himself, is the Master and the Disciple too. .