Jump to content

Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'say'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


    • Agree to Disagree

Found 1 result

  1. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times when I or many other Sikhs are debating people of other faiths, I allways hear some Sikhs bring up the line: ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1350 Which is translated to mean: "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to full shabad: https://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/ang-by-ang I have asked many people about the true meaning behind this tuk, and most people would agree that its correctly translated, however there are some who would disagree, and translate it in a way that is directly the opposite of what the English translation means. Let me give you an example: Literal meaning breakdown ਬੇਦ = Literally meaning "Ved" referring to the Vedas from Sanatana Dharma (often called "Hinduism") ਕਤੇਬ = Literally meaning "books", however in the context of Bhagat Kabeer it means the three major abrehamic books: bible, quran, torah. ਕਹਹੁ = Literally meaning "Say" ਮਤ = Now this is the part that is often disputed. How one interprets this one word can change the entire shabads meaning, and even affect Sikhi as a whole. Often times people will say "mat" means "do not", however the same word is also used with different meanings. An example is the word "Gurmat", this word doesn't mean "Guru Dont". ਝੂਠੇ = Literally meaning "false" or "untrue" Differences in Opinion The AKJ founder Randhir Singh translated this tuk to mean that Bhagat Kabeer (who is technically not a Muslim but a Sikh as per Gurbani) is saying that this tuk is saying that the ved and abrehamic books are false, however most of the English translations that Sikhs read, seem to suggest the exact opposite. I am personalty not AKJ or any other jatha, and I disagree with some stuff Bhai Randir Singh says, however on this specific issue, I lean towards "ਮਤ" not meaning "do not" in this context. The reason for this is becuase if you take the entire shabad, as well as the life of Bhagat Kabeer, its obvious that hes criticizing Islamic practices, and fundamental ideas of the abrehamic regions, and the eastern dharmas under the blanket of Sanatana Dharma. People often bring up the counter argument that "all relgions/dharmas have some truth in them", and this is generally true, and varies on specific relgion or dharma, however in general, the reason Sikhi needed to be revitalized in the 4th age (Kal Yug "the dark age") was becuase all other religions and dharms had failed (as stated in Dasam Granth which is generally believed to be written by the Guru in his 10th temporal form). Bani also criticizes the vedas on other shabads, correct me if im wrong, but at one point it literally says that its make belief, so then why would the Guru contradict itself? Here is an example of a counterargument against the English translation of "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to counterargument: http://www.searchsikhism.com/islam-in-gurbani My questions for Sikh who are educated in Gurbani: What do you guys think of this? Do you think the English translation of Gurbani was deliberately changed to not offend others? If so, what is the correct way to interpret this tuk?