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  1. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times when I or many other Sikhs are debating people of other faiths, I allways hear some Sikhs bring up the line: ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1350 Which is translated to mean: "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to full shabad: https://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/ang-by-ang I have asked many people about the true meaning behind this tuk, and most people would agree that its correctly translated, however there are some who would disagree, and translate it in a way that is directly the opposite of what the English translation means. Let me give you an example: Literal meaning breakdown ਬੇਦ = Literally meaning "Ved" referring to the Vedas from Sanatana Dharma (often called "Hinduism") ਕਤੇਬ = Literally meaning "books", however in the context of Bhagat Kabeer it means the three major abrehamic books: bible, quran, torah. ਕਹਹੁ = Literally meaning "Say" ਮਤ = Now this is the part that is often disputed. How one interprets this one word can change the entire shabads meaning, and even affect Sikhi as a whole. Often times people will say "mat" means "do not", however the same word is also used with different meanings. An example is the word "Gurmat", this word doesn't mean "Guru Dont". ਝੂਠੇ = Literally meaning "false" or "untrue" Differences in Opinion The AKJ founder Randhir Singh translated this tuk to mean that Bhagat Kabeer (who is technically not a Muslim but a Sikh as per Gurbani) is saying that this tuk is saying that the ved and abrehamic books are false, however most of the English translations that Sikhs read, seem to suggest the exact opposite. I am personalty not AKJ or any other jatha, and I disagree with some stuff Bhai Randir Singh says, however on this specific issue, I lean towards "ਮਤ" not meaning "do not" in this context. The reason for this is becuase if you take the entire shabad, as well as the life of Bhagat Kabeer, its obvious that hes criticizing Islamic practices, and fundamental ideas of the abrehamic regions, and the eastern dharmas under the blanket of Sanatana Dharma. People often bring up the counter argument that "all relgions/dharmas have some truth in them", and this is generally true, and varies on specific relgion or dharma, however in general, the reason Sikhi needed to be revitalized in the 4th age (Kal Yug "the dark age") was becuase all other religions and dharms had failed (as stated in Dasam Granth which is generally believed to be written by the Guru in his 10th temporal form). Bani also criticizes the vedas on other shabads, correct me if im wrong, but at one point it literally says that its make belief, so then why would the Guru contradict itself? Here is an example of a counterargument against the English translation of "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false." Link to counterargument: http://www.searchsikhism.com/islam-in-gurbani My questions for Sikh who are educated in Gurbani: What do you guys think of this? Do you think the English translation of Gurbani was deliberately changed to not offend others? If so, what is the correct way to interpret this tuk?
  2. I guess it just goes on to prove that its loss of a religion when it is forced http://riyadhconnect.com/copies-of-holy-quran-found-in-street-drains-in-saudi-city/
  3. The ringleader of the London Bridge terror attack was a former Underground and KFC worker known for his extremist views. The 27-year-old attacker, who can only be identified as 'Abdul' at the request of police, was a home-grown jihadi who came to the UK from a village near Lahore in Pakistan as a child and spent his life in Barking, East London. But in recent years he had become increasingly radical and was twice reported to anti-terror authorities, it has been claimed. He even appeared in TV documentary about British jihadis and was questioned by police after an Islamic State flag was unfurled in a park. The revelations will put further pressure on Britain's security services after Manchester bomber Salman Abedi also appeared to have slipped through the net before carrying out the atrocity. A neighbour recognised this picture of the killer in an Arsenal away shirt (Photo: AFP) Police raided a number of addresses in barking, East London, on Sunday (Photo: PA) Abdul was well-known in his local community, with one mother claiming she confronted him for trying to brainwash her children with extremist religious views in a park. A neighbour said he immediately noticed the Arsenal away shirt Abdul was wearing after being shot dead by police outside the Wheatsheaf pub on Saturday night. He said: "I looked on Twitter and saw one of the terrorists who had been shot by police and he looked 90 per cent like my neighbour - he was even wearing the same Arsenal shirt that I had seen him in at 5pm that evening." A number of arrests have been made in the Barking area today (Photo: PA) Searches are still ongoing (Photo: REUTERS) Officers unleashed a hail of bullets after the trio used a hired van to mow down pedestrians on one of the capital's busiest bridges. They then leapt from the vehicle and began knifing people at random in bars and restaurants. According to The Times, Abdul is the only one of the Pakistani attackers positively identified so far. He lived in a block of flats with his wife and two young children which was raided by police early on Sunday. Ken Chigbo, 26, who lives in the same building, described him as "really sociable" and said the killer had invited him to a barbecue just last week. "I know he was quite a devout Muslim, I heard him talking about the Koran," said Mr Chigbo. "He would preach to young Muslims at the flat. "Sometimes up to six people quite regularly.” Twelve people have been taken into custody (Photo: PA) CLICK TO PLAY WATCH NEXTSecurity guards dance with the crowd at One Love THREE SUSPECTS SHOT AND KILLED BY ARMED POLICE An online CV suggests the attacker worked for Transport for London and took a course in teaching English as a foreign language. He also worked at fast-food chain KFC but quit around two years ago, according to a friend. "He began stopping his neighbours in the street and asking them if they had been saying their prayers and when they had been to the mosque." One man who knew the killer told the BBC he had become so concerned by his extremist views he rang the anti-terrorist hotline. He claimed the attacker was not arrested and was allowed to keep his passport. Locals in Barking said they had raised concerns about the killer (Photo: REUTERS) Erica Gasparri, 42, said she had also raised concerns. She said Pakistani terrorist Abdul would sit in a park opposite Northbury Primary School in Barking with two other men and talk to local children. The mum-of-three said he would offer the kids sweets in order to groom them and claimed to be "teaching them about religion".
  4. As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here? I've seen quite alot of people debating about various quotes from it but all of them seem to be from rather biased websites, its interesting how so many people just throw these quotes out but im genuinely curious if anyone has read any portion of it or even any of the Hadiths.
  5. The story says that the angel Jibril (Gabriel) dictated the Quran to Muhammad from the mouth of Allah. What is the Sikh perspective of this? Is the Quran written by Allah (Waheguru), Jibril, or Muhammad?
  6. Can a brother or sister please do viakhya of this shabad by Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji. This Shabad is by Bhai Gurdas Singh in Amrit Keertan on Pannaa 282 gurubr Akwl ky hukm soN aupijE ibigAwnw [ qb sihjy ricE Kwlsw swbq mrdwnw [ ieauN auTy isMG Bbkwir kY sB jg frpwnw [ mVI dyvl gor msIq Fwih kIey mYdwnw [ byd purwn Kt swsqRw Pun imty kurwnw [ bWg slwq imtwie kir mwry sulqwnw [ mIr pIr sB Cip gey mzHbo aultwnw [ mlvwny kwjI iPir Qky kCu mrmu n jwnw [ lK pMifq bRhmn joqkI ibK rs aurJwnw [ Pun pwQr dyvl pUij kY Aiq hI Brmwnw [ ieauN dono iPrky kpt mYN rc rhy indwnw [ ieh qIsr mzhb ^wlsw aupijE prDwnw [ ijin guru hoibMd ky hukm soN gih KVg idKwnw [ iqh sB dustn kau Cyid kY Akwl jpwnw [ iPr AYsw hukm Akwl kw jg mYN pRgtwnw [ qb suMnq koie n kir skY kwipE qurkwnw [ ieauN aumq sB muhMmdI Kip geI indwnw [ qb Pqy fMk jg mY Gury duK duMd imtwnw [ ieauN qIsr pMQ rcwieAnu vf sUr ghylw [ vwh vwh goibMd isMG Awpy guru cwlw ] 16 ] With the command of the Timeless, the Supreme True Guru, proclaimed the self-realisation, And then, steadfastly, created Khalsa, the righteous ones, with the undefiled human form. The Singhs rose up roaring and whole world was over-awed. They decimated and raised to the ground the (ritualistic) cemeteries, crematoriums, temples and mosques. (Compulsive) readings of Vedas, Puranas, Six-shastras and Quran was abolished. Baangs, the calls for Muslim prayers, were ousted and the kings were abolished. Temporal and spiritual leaders were obscured, and all the religions became topsy-turvey. The Muslim priests and justices deciphered hard but could not comprehend dissolution. Millions of Brahamin scholars and astrologers were venomously entangled, And were drowned in extreme fallacies of worshipping the idols and gods. Thus, both the ignorant faiths, muffled in hypocrisy, were lagging behind. Then the third religion, Khalsa, manifested triumphantly. By the command of Guru Gobind Singh, they brandished the swords held high. They exterminated all the scoundrels and order of the Timeless One. And this way they revealed the command of the Timeless in the world. Turks, the Muslims, dreaded and none actuated the circumcision Consequently, the following of Mohammed submerged in ignorance. Then the drumbeats of victory terminated all the adversities. And thus was proclaimed the great and valorous Third Faith. Hail, hail (Guru) Gobind Singh; He, Himself, is the Master and the Disciple too. .