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  1. Guest

    GyanKhand Organization

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ! We would like to invite the sangat to the official ‘GyanKhand’ Discord Server. Like our Instagram page, Subreddit, and Soundcloud, YouTube, and other platforms, our aim with this platform is to further extend the reach of our content so we can spread and raise awareness of the ancient knowledge passed down by our Gurus, warriors, saints, and scholars. This server is yet another part of our everlasting endeavour to create a large online community for Sikhs; not just one where educated Sikhs can have intellectual discussions, but also a place which those who are interested in learning more about Sikhi can rely on. Furthermore, this server acts as the ideal online hub to learn about Puratan Granths [pre-colonial literature] and Sikh literacy as a whole. This server also offers a ‘Kirtan’ channel where one can engross themselves in heart-warming Puratan Keertan, a ‘Katha’ channel where one can attain the extensive knowledge of the most learned Gianis and Vidvaans, a channel dedicated to sharing and discussing Puratan art/symbology, and many other accommodations. All in all, the official ‘GyanKhand’ discord server is your ideal and fastest growing place to share, learn, and indulge in all things related to Sikhi. What we offer: 24/7 Live Kirtan 24/7 Live Katha 24/7 Live Gurbani Gurbani Santhya Learn Gurmukhi & Punjabi Events with various Parchariks Literature Discussions Support groups Book Clubs Watch others do live Kirtan Hope you join us! Link: https://discord.gg/PwmmkuX6Nd
  2. Since people here have a problem with me stating the truth about monay, forget about me. Here you can listen to what Sant Ji has to say about monay. Are you going to accuse him of being "divisive" and "judgmental"? Or chastise him for "hating on Sikhs with haircuts"? Will you continue to heap praise on clowns like Deep Sidhu who pretend to hold him in high regard but take time out of every day of their lives to shave? Will you finally realize that monay with khanda tattoos and monay posting sant ji's photos on their social media pages are shameless and spineless?
  3. I know this topic has been addressed before (see here) but I was wondering if anyone has anymore knowledge to share about the 4 yugs. I was wondering how this would fit with modern day science. If anyone also has any videos or books on this subject, please share ? Bhul Chuk Maaf ?
  4. Guest

    Sahejdhari

    Hi there seems to be this idea that sikhi is for only for keshdaris or amritdharis. that if you are a sahejdhari you have at somepoint become amritdhari in order to be religous. keshdharies /amritdharis promote this idea heavily and when i was younger i thought it was true. but now, after years of study of SGGS, I don't think this is true. alot of sahejidharis don't want to keep kesh and still maintain complete faith in SGGS. don't think you have to keep kesh if you don't want to. don't do those things if they are not in your heart. just wanted to give this message to those who may be making the same mistake in thinking.
  5. Latest research as of 2019 and 2020 showed Sikhism is the fastest growing religion in Australia and new Zealand. A concentrated effort should be made to make these two countries a hub of Sikhi. Canada also has a growing Sikh population though not officially recognised it is growing fast too. Pakistan should be our kaums number one target for secret conversions it would be beautiful to see west punjab once the centre of Sikh power of maharajah ranjit singhs kingdom having a majority Sikh population. And besides the more pakistani's that are converted to Sikhi the more stable the future of Sikhs and other non-muslims like hindus and buddhists will be in neighbouring Afghanistan and kashmir. What we need is less langari's doing their largar parties and handing out langar gifts to non-believers and more parchar parties and with gurbani gifts for non-Sikhs.
  6. Sikhism now an official religion in Austria TNN | Dec 28, 2020, 07.20 PM IST AMRITSAR: Sikhs of Austria will now be able to use Singh and Kaur after their forename, mention Sikhism as their religion, and register themselves as Sikhs after the Sikh religion was officially registered by the Austrian government. While talking to TOI over the phone from Vienna on Monday, Jatinder Singh Bajwa, secretary Gurdwara Guru Nanak Dev Ji Parkash, 22nd District, Vienna, said now the Sikhs and their children would be able to use Singh and Kaur after their forenames which they earlier used to write in the ‘extra name’ column. About the process of registration of Sikhism in Austria, he informed that there were seven gurdwara’s in Austria out of which three were in Vienna with one gurdwara each in Klagenfurt, Linz, Graz and Salzburg. The gurdwara management committees of Austria then constituted a nine-member-committee of Sikh youth on November 1, 2019 who was entrusted with the task of pursing the registration process of the Sikh religion with the Austrian government. Jatinder, the only professional Sikh chef in Vienna, informed that the committee prepared a ‘constitution’ on Sikh religion and their practices incorporating the values of Sikhism, Sikh guru’s, Akal Takht’s rehat maryada (religious code of Sikh living), significance of Sikh religious symbols, the value of 5 K’s in the life of a Sikh, their distinct identity, Sikh’s turban, etc. which was submitted with the Austrian government. “On December 17 we received a letter informing about the registration of Sikhism in Austria and on December 23rd we held a thanksgiving prayer in the gurdwara” he said. Reacting to the development, Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee president Bibi Jagir Kaur said that “this as an important achievement attained with the efforts of sangat in Austria."
  7. Guest

    Respect for Elders

    I think that a firm concept in every world dharam is respect for elders. It is also the baseline value on which all civil and peaceful societies and cultres are built. When there is respect for elders, I think, the society goes to hell. And this is what I am increasingly witnessing in capitalistic societies, and the sikh people in them (not just the youth). What does respect for elders mean? It means putting them at the top as the authority, not disrepecting them, but showing them consideration and obedience. So who are these elders?: 1. You parents. After God and Guru, these are the most important authorities for you. You should not deceive them, disrespect them in anyway, do anything they would no approve of or do anything in public or secret that you know would hurt them or make you feel ashamed. You should listen to them and work to please them at all times. When they are elderly, you should always do you best to make them comfortable and take care of them. 2. Your grandparents and elder relatives. These people are part of your family. After your parents, they should be heeded and respected. Be kind to your grandparents, as they may feel ignored or uncared for. that isn't right. 3. Your teachers. These people are trying to help you learn. You should treat them with consideration and respect. Don't talk while they are talking or show them any bad attitude. Listen to what they are trying to tell you and sincerely try and follow their instructions and requests and guidance. Do all your work with attention and care including your homework. These doesn't just apply to school kids, the same applies to people at universities, or in classes like martial arts or other learning situations. Knowledge should also be respected. 3. All bazurg (elderly people). These people should be treated with consideration kindness and respect. If you see one in difficulty, be kind and offer them help. Even if they are rude to you, don't be rude back. Smile at elderly people who look sad or troubled and respectfully say hello. 4. People with more knowledge or life experience in a any field of life than you. You shouldn't be arrogant when they people try to tell or teach you something. Don't be judgemental. For example you may be highly educated but that doesn't mean you can't learn something from a road sweeper. 5. Your managers/ superiors at work. These people are trusting you with your work. If you don't do you work properly it reflects badly on them. Also, they may be suffering from stress. Be kind to them. 6. people older than you by at least 5 or 10 years, people put in charge of you. 7. Generally any person older than you.
  8. I recently played the new assasins creed game and it is about vikings and I was wondering what you think the Sikhi perspective is on Norse mythology? I don't think there is any reference to Norse mythology in any of the Sikh Granths. Do yuu think that Norse Gods are real and Asgard also Vallhala? I think most Sikh people probably think Norse mythology is fake but believe in Hindu Mythology.
  9. Guest

    Sikhi around the world

    I wonder if we can work together to produce a sort of idea of what Sikhi is like in various countries around world. Especially out of india. Things like - how much sangat seem serious about sikhi - regular gurdwara, Sikhi saroop etc - youth interest in sikhi - availability to learn gurmukhi, santhiya, kirtan, gatka etc - amount of community engagements like nagar kirtan, hola mahala gathering, major yearly smagms, sikhi camps - any places doing especially good job keeping sikhi alive we can learn ideas from?
  10. There doesn't appear to be any decent platforms for meeting people these days and no one seems willing to suggest people. Where are we supposed to begin?
  11. As title suggests. I have noticed an increase in ppl from punjab rocking tattoos infact i noticed this for a while and just shrugged it off for some reason. Anyways do you guys also notice this I also seen women having tattoos as well. To me personally i am not a fan of tatoos and they kinda look immature and childish but i would never think of someones opinion to be lesser just because they have a tattoo i even have friends with it
  12. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ This isn’t a promotion but I’ve been following the Sikhi Forums online and loved them. I’ve always looked for a platform which allows sangat to connect. I came across Discord and I didn’t think my effort of creating a space for the Sikh community would go far but within 5 days it gained 300 members so I wanted to invite some of those interested . Platform is to further extend the reach of Sikhi so we can spread and raise awareness of the ancient knowledge passed down by our Gurus, warriors, saints, and scholars. This server is part of my everlasting endeavour to create a large online community for Sikhs; not just one where educated Sikhs can have intellectual discussions, but also a place which those who are interested in learning more about Sikhi can rely on. Furthermore, this server acts as the ideal online hub to learn about Puratan Granths [pre-colonial literature] and Sikh literacy as a whole. This server also offers a ‘Kirtan’ channel where one can engross themselves in heart-warming Puratan Keertan, a ‘Katha’ channel where one can attain the extensive knowledge of the most learned Gianis and Vidvaans, a channel dedicated to sharing and discussing Puratan art/symbology, and many other accommodations. All in all, the discord server is your ideal place to share, learn, and indulge in all things related to Sikhi. Thanks to SikhSangat Forum for getting me into Sikhi! Discord Server is: https://discord.gg/swfPSJb ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ
  13. There is also a growing number of Punjabi in diaspora that are converting to Christianity. Wont be surprised if Punjab becomes majority Christian state within 5-10 years or less. Really sad and heartbreaking
  14. How did the singh sabha movement converted so many people into sikhi? I have thought abt it various times and have heard from many people that singh sabha movement helped to get many people into sikhi.
  15. Whats your racial/ethnic background? Are you a convert to Sikhi or born into it? If a convert what about Sikhi attracted you to the faith and what has your journey in the faith been so far?
  16. Did Duleep Singh Embrace Christianity of His Own Free Will? Harbans Singh Noor Maharaja Dalip Singh before (left) and after (right) Conversion A hundred and fifty years ago, on March 8, 1853 14-year-old Maharaja Duleep Singh, son of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the last sovereign of the Khalsa Kingdom of Punjab, was proselytized into Christianity by the advice and consent of Lord Dalhousie, Governor General of India. The British put forth a lie that it was Maharaja’s own free will. Several scholars have found this presentation questionable, but it has not yet been nailed once for all. In this essay, an attempt has been made to present a proof positive that it was a devoted and missionary spirited Dr John Spencer Login, who got himself appointed as guardian of the 10-year-old Duleep Singh; wished and planned from day one to convert the lad, “young enough to mould” and “one who may yet influence so many thousands of people”. Following sequence of Login’s own words, from Lady Login’s book, Sir John Login and Duleep Singh, published in 1889, and from Lady Login’s Recollections, by Login’s daughter, E Dalhousie Login, illustrates how devoted a Christian John was, and how eager he always was to place copies of the Bible, in hands of Jews and ranking Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs. He was always anxious to be “useful” and he wanted his wife also to be “useful” to the cause of spreading Christianity. It was with Duleep Singh’s money, given by his guardian, Dr Login, that American Presbyterian Mission ran 10 schools in Farukhabad “Whereby 400 youth were thoroughly educated in the Christian faith and some were being fitted to evangelize their own people.” We also find how Login ‘connived’ with Bhajun Lai, a Hindu employee of the household, to bring the lad into the fold of Christianity. Conscious of the role he had played, the same Bhajun Lai tried to ‘blackmail’ Dr. Login to get rewarded for his ‘services’. He demanded such favours that Login could not have delivered under any circumstances, and finally succeeded in extracting sufficient cash, with which he established a flourishing business. Some of the other officers who helped Login in his scheme became victims of the wrath of inhabitants during the ‘Mutiny’ in 1857. Ten years before he came in contact with Duleep Singh, Dr John Login was posted in Herat. He was attached to Major D’Arcy Todd’s Mission to Shah Kamran. From there, he wrote to his mother on July 29, 1839: “I think I ought to remain here - a wide field of usefulness is open to me, and I may, through Divine blessing, be preparing a way for a Christian Mission in this centre of Asia ere long. ... “There are several families of Jews here. I had yesterday a long conversation with two of them; they were much delighted with the epistle of St Paul to the Romans [from the Bible] which I read to them in Persian.” In a footnote to this letter, Lady Login says: “As they appeared much delighted with the small tract which Login got one of the Rabbis transcribe for them, he was induced to employ the same man on a transcription of Martyn’s Persian Testament.... Thirteen years after [in 1852] Login had the happiness of learning that this last named Jew had through this work been led into the truth of the Gospel, and died as a Christian in Bombay - Ferriers Caravan Journey, p 123. ” Lady Login wires: During his residence in Herat, Dr Login often came in contact with the members of Shah Kamran’s household.... The needlework done by the ladies was beautiful, and they were always sending the specimens of their skill - embroidered vests, and quilted chogas and rasais. Covers were made for Login’s Bibles and Prayer Book, and this opportunity was made use of by him to send a Persian Testament to have a cover made of it; and when he found it bore marks of having been read (by whom he never discovered) he offered to exchange it for a volume of Hafiz’s poems, which was eagerly accepted... Login says: “The very first book in Pushtoo ever seen by Shah Kamran and his family was a New Testament which I had brought from India, and which had been published by the missionaries of Serampore in Persian characters.... It was in possession of Shahzadah Mohamed Yusef.... He had got it from me.... May I hope that it has been equally as useful as the Hebrew transcription.... In connection with this, I may mention, that I gave away several copies of Martyn’s Testament to people in Herat, and a Testament in Turki to Khalifa of Merv, a man of considerable sanctity among the Turcomans.” (Lady Login, Sir John Login and Duleep Singh, pp 36-38, - hereafter LL) This then is the portrait of John Login, who would be appointed guardian of 10-year-old Duleep Singh, deposed Maharaja of Punjab. Would the boy be able to hold his own, under Login’s care? Or, would he be coached, influenced, or brainwashed into making decisions? Punjab was annexed by the British on March 29, 1849, but Login was privy to the secret of planned annexation long before that. He was anxious to get charge of the 10-year-old Maharaja Duleep Singh. On March 18, he wrote to his wife in England: “I am not, of course, at liberty to tell you all I know, but Lawrence says that as it will be public in England soon, I may tell you this much - that annexation is determined on by the Governor General.” (LL, p 149) Again on March 28, he wrote: “I showed both Henry and John (Lawrences) the paper I drew up, and of which I sent you a copy, and I believe they have come to the conclusion to recommend me very strongly to Government for the charge of the young Maharaja Duleep Singh, when the Punjab is annexed.” (LL, p 149) After the Annexation On 6th of April 1849, Dr John Spencer Login was installed as Governor of the Lahore Citadel. The Maharaja, the Toshakhana and all the State prisoners, including Dewan Mool Raj, Governor of Multan, came under his charge. Login gave a Bible, in Persian, to Dewan Mool Raj, when he was locked up in Lahore Citadel1, for his trial. In return Mool Raj sent him a sheet of paper with “Ram, Ram, Ram” written on it. (LL, p. 171) Login wrote to his wife in 1850: “I told you, I think, that when at Lahore I had a letter from Lucknow, telling me of my old friend Azeemoolah’s death; he had written me only a few days before, asking my advice whether he should accept an appointment offered by the King. I advised him: “No”; that he had plenty already of this world’s goods, and that he should now take rest and time to think and prepare for the fate that must befall all men; that I wished him to compare what is written in his own books with what our Bible says (I had given him one) and ask God to give him light to understand and do His will.” (LL, p. 226) Now, as guardian of young Duleep Singh, Login misses no time at all in putting his plan into action. He starts teaching him precepts from the Bible. His favourite segment was Mathew from the New Testament. In a letter dated May 6 and 8, 1849 he wrote: It is an amusement to him [Duleep Singh] to have an English writing lesson with me, so I give him a precept to write out and translate, “Do unto others as you would they should do unto you.” [Mathew 7; 12] I intend. As I cannot put the Bible in his hands yet to let him have such principles as these.... (LL, p 159) Duleep Singh was too young and not in a position to ask him, if the British would have wanted the Sikhs to do to them, what they did to the Sikhs. On November 28, 1849 Login informed his wife: “I have just returned (two pm) from him [Lord Dalhousie], He “I have just returned (two pm) from him [Lord Dalhousie], He “I have just returned (two pm) from him [Lord Dalhousie], He told the Little Maharajah to Futtehghur; and that he wished much that I continue in charge of him there on my present allowances2 and do all that I could to make him comfortable.... told me that he did not wish to restrict me to Futtehghur, but that I might take him to Agra or Delhi...wherever I liked, and eventually to England in course of a year or two. I then had an opportunity of giving him my ideas of sending some Sikh nobles to England, and showing them something of our power and resources.” (LL, pp 188-89) Duleep Singh was taken from the Lahore Citadel to be exiled to Fatehgarh, District Farukhabad, in U.P. He was accompanied by his nephew, 6 year-old Kanwar Shiv Dev Singh, son of Maharaja Sher Singh - another lad Login wanted to convert. In Duleep Singh, Login saw the possibility of a medium to influence thousands more. On March 6, 1850 he wrote to his wife from Fatehgarh: “I am disappointed at having to leave Lahore, before arrival of Dr Duff, after having had so much to do these last few years in urging him to take up Punjab. He was much pleased at my sending him my subscription [Rs 500], as it showed him I was in earnest.” He was also anxious to seek the help of his wife in influencing the lad, who had been separated from his mother. “I shall be glad when you join me, for I cannot expect to have more than two or three years in which we can influence the young Maharajah’s mind favourably towards our domestic life; and I must not lose them on any account.... Is it not worth running some risk to health, by coming back so soon to occupy a position of such usefulness, towards one who may yet influence so many thousands of people?” On May 16, 1850 Dr Login wrote to his wife: “Since last writing I have seen the Governor General... I have spoken strongly about getting a good tutor looked for in England, for the boy; but I see that he thinks it would not be prudent to get Dr Duff to recommend one, as it might think that it was with the intention of making the lad a Christian, so I must do it through another channel... “If you see Dr Duff in Edinburgh, you can explain to him that Lord Dalhousie is afraid if he were asked to recommend a tutor that it might imply an interference with the boy’s religious faith; I trust, however, that God helping, we shall be enabled, as “written epistles” [.Bibles - written as letters - contained in the New Testament.] to manifest the spirituality and benevolence of a Christian life, if we cannot otherwise preach to him... “Observing that Guise, Barlow, Tommy Scott, and I have morning prayer together, he asked me to order his porohut (priest) to come to him also at a fixed hour daily to read in his holy book (the Grunth). This I think indicates devotional feeling, that may hereafter be directed aright;...” (LL, pp 216-17; Emphasis added) [Guise and Tommy Scott’s sister and brother were killed during the Mutiny in 1857.] On May 19, 1850 Login wrote to his wife: I have, it is true, all the pleasure, which I could desire, from the expenditure of the Maharaja’s money, quite as much as if it were my own. So much has been left to my discretion in the way of applying it. After putting his house and grounds in order, I intend to get up a school for the children all round Futtehghur, in which he can take an interest, and also find other ways to give him a taste for benefiting the poor, and making the people round him happy. A footnote reads as follows: “Within the last three months we have started a day-school for girls of respectable caste as an experiment. The Reverend Gopee Nath Nundy’s zealous and exemplary wife and daughter superintend it (vernacular and industrial). I look for great results eventually.” (LL, p 218; Emphasis added) [The Mission was destroyed by the mutineers in 1857.] There is no doubt that Dr Login was a benevolent zealous Christian. In a letter from Fatehgarh, July 16, 1850 Login wrote: “I have just been looking at my account at the Cawnpore Bank, and find it rather low. I have had rather unusual expenses since you left - I mean more than I calculated on. Besides paying the necessary subscriptions to the Funds (Bengal Military and Orphan), which, as you know are especially heavy in my case, I have had to pay, for instance: Dr Duff’s Mission in Punjab - 500 Rs. Brian Hodgson’s children - 250 Rs. Lahore Mission - 100 Rs. Church of Lahore - 100 Rs. Of course, this besides our various subscriptions as usual, such as: The Lawrence Asylum The Free Church Mission The C M Society [Church Missionary Society] I feel sorry indeed that I cannot engage [for Duleep Singh] the tutor, so highly recommended by Dr Duff.” Maharaja Duleep Singh had been betrothed, before the Second Anglo-Sikh War, to be married to the daughter of Sardar Chattar Singh Attariwala. Dr. Login wrote to the Governor General asking for advice in the matter. Duleep Singh was only 11 years old then. On April 13, Dalhousie wrote to Login: “The marriage of the Maharajah is a more difficult matter for us to arrange. I should object decidedly, and do not wish to countenance any relations henceforth between the Maharajah and the Sikhs, either by alliance with a Sikh family, or sympathy with Sikh feeling. The [11-year-old] Maharajah having personally desired to break off his betrothal with Chuttar Singh’s daughter, appears to have opinions of his own as to marriage. If he chooses to marry one of the Rajah of Coorg’s daughters, after having everything about her explained to him, I can’t see why he should not. There are two, one3 that His Highness wants to send to England, another about seven or eight for whom he does not propose English education.” (LL, pp 230-31) Now was the time to change the domestic staff, in line with needs and objectives. In a Memorandum to Lord Dalhousie, Login wrote: On departure from Lahore, Duleep Singh’s “retinue consisted principally of Mahomedans; and even the Sikh priests and many of the Brahmins ... declined to accompany him. “Soon after the Maharajah’s arrival at Futtehghar, his old servant Mean Kheema, a Mahomedan who had been with him ever since his birth, and was much attached to him (the same who advised him to sign the Treaty with a good grace), claimed his promise to let him return to his family and country; it became necessary, therefore, that I should appoint a trustworthy successor. Bhajun Lai, a young Brahmin of Furuckabad, was recommended, as being of excellent moral character, and having received a good education at one of the American Mission at Furruckabad.... “He could read and speak English fairly, which was a great recommendation to the young Maharajah, who was anxious to learn the language. He was therefore, installed as confidential personal attendant.” (LL, p 232) Lady Login arrived from England in December 1850. She had a Christmas present waiting for her. Mrs Login tells us: “It was whilst Login was away from his charge on this occasion that the Maharajah took an important step, by suddenly announcing his intention of embracing the Christian religion.... The whole subject gave rise to an extensive official correspondence...” (LL, p 241) Login submitted a long report and several statements from persons at Fatehgarh, acknowledging which Sir H. Eliot, Secretary to Government wrote to Login on February 17, 1851: “The Governor-General is entirely satisfied by this statement and by the documents transmitted in support of it, that no improper influence had, either directly or indirectly, been used by you, or by any of the English gentlemen who have been connected with His Highness’s establishment, to induce His Highness to abjure his original faith and to profess Christianity. His Lordship requests that his conviction on this head be made known to you and may by you communicated to others.” (LL, p 263) Lord Dalhousie reported the “case so important and so novel” to the Court of Directors, in England, for consideration. On June 11, 1851 Sir Henry Eliot conveyed to Login a letter from the Court of Directors saying: “We concur entirely in the views expressed by Lord Dalhousie.”(LL, p 265) Commenting on this letter from the Court, Sir Eliot wrote: “It is Governor-General’s wish, that if the Maharajah’s desire shall not have been a transient fancy, he should henceforth receive every aid and guidance which can be given to him.” (LL, p 265) Hence, after this, he was given every necessary aid and guidance to embrace Christianity - including chopping off his ‘long and abundant’ hair, and presenting them to Login’s wife. The Truth Behind the Coverup Here are some excerpts from Login’s statement and the supporting documents, which were sent by Login to the Governor-General, to show that conversion was Duleep Singh’s own decision, and that he had no involvement in it. Login used his co-conspirator Bhajun Lai’s statement for coverup. Also presented were letters from Duleep Singh, written for him by Bhajun Lai. Duleep Singh’s letter of December 2, 1850 to Login, when he was at Calcutta, to receive his wife coming from England, said: “Will you kindly send me a nice Bible, for I like very much to read, because yesterday [December 1] Bhajun Lai read to me...” (LL, p 249) His letter dated December 7 said: “I have begun to read the Bible. And generally read one or two chapters.” On December 20, 1850 Captain J Campbell (7th Madras Cavalry) thus reported to the Government: “On Sunday, the 8th inst., His Highness the Maharajah communicated to me through Master Thomas Scott, his desire to become a Christian, as he termed it...” It is strange that Duleep Singh, to whom Bible was read for the first time on December 1, ‘decided’ to become a Christian on December 8. One also wonders why Captain Campbell did not wait for the Maharaja’s guardian, Dr Login to report his ward’s decision to the Government. Was it an emergency or was it preplanned? Bhajun Lai in his statement given to Login said: “When the Maharaj began to learn out of an English book, by the name of “English Instructor.” There were some lines at the back end of the book with a few words about Christian religion. Yu [Dr Login] once said to Maharaj, “These are records about Our religion; if you want to read them, then read; if you don’t want to read, then leave them” but His Highness say to me, :Never mind, I will read them, because I want to know everything; then they were read... “Now, Sahib, after sometime you went to Calcutta. Maharaj saw one copy of Holy Bible into my hand, and asked of me, “Will you sell this over to me?” I replied and said, “Maharaj, I don’t want to sell it to you, but I can present you, if you can read a chapter out of it without any assistance.” So he did read, and I presented. After some short time, he asked me to read to him, and let him hear it, and according to his orders I did read. First day I read 6th4 chapter St. Mathew, and few others during the week...” (LL, p 246) Bhajun Lai did not mention the role he had played in creating prejudice in young lad’s mind about the truth of Hindu religion, though he himself was a Brahmin. He used the same method, which Christian missionaries usually employed - i.e., telling tall tales from Hindu mythology and tradition. Login’s daughter tells us : “This young man [Bhajun Lai] was aware...that he [Duleep Singh] was skeptical with regard to many of the “pious stories” in the Shastras, e.g., that of the virtuous Rajah who distributed daily in alms ten thousand cows before he broke his fast, and yet came short of eternal salvation, because his servants, unknown to him, had placed amongst the daily tale of cows one that had already been numbered in the charitable dole!” (E Dalhousie Login, Lady Login’s Recollections, p 95, - hereafter EDL) In December 1851, Lord Dalhousie visited Fatehgarh, and dined with Logins and Duleep Singh. [Later, on April 18, 1854 Dalhousie presented to Duleep Singh, a Bible as his parting gift.] We are told that: When at length [Duleep Singh’s] hair was allowed to be cut off and he brought it to Mrs. Login as a memento; it was long and abundant as a woman’s.” (LL, p 278) With offer of his beautiful hair at the altar of his guardians, not only Logins but also others who had played their overt or covert role in this endeavour felt a sense of achievement. Maharaja now became favourite of all the British officials. He was taken round to Agra, Delhi, Meerut, Saharanpur, Aligarh, etc. He was a trophy on display at all Military stations. He and the Logins spent the summer of 1852 in Mussoorie hills. Login’s wish of getting back to England had not yet been fulfilled. Now was the time to push for it. He had more than earned it. On September 24, 1852 Lord Dalhousie recommended to Dr Login, immediate baptism of Duleep Singh: “I am advocate for his [Duleep Singh’s] going to England, and shall do my best to persuade the Court to it; and if it should help in marriage between him and little Coorg.5 “If Duleep Singh is to go to England, let him be quietly baptized and by his own name of Duleep Singh. Indeed I am prepared to advise his being baptized now.”(LL, p 296) Now Login had obtained advice and consent of the Governor- General. On March 8, 1853 Maharaja Duleep Singh, not even 15 years old, was baptized “in his own house. In the presence of about twenty of the European residents of Futtehghur, and about an equal number of the Maharajah’s principal native servants, who had been invited to attend.” Lady Login says: ”At the last moment, by a happy inspiration, I made the suggestion that there would be a special appropriateness in the use of Ganges water for the sacred rite, seeing the veneration in which the Ganges (Ganga-jee) is held by all Hindoos.” (EDL, pp. 96-97) Proselytizing Sikh Maharaja Duleep Singh, the last sovereign of Punjab, was a feather in Lord Dalhousie’s cap also. On March 16, 1853 the Governor-General wrote: “I regard it as a remarkable event in history and in every way gratifying.” (LL, p 307) Lady Login, perhaps justifiably, blames the Sikhs for not having made efforts for Duleep Singh’s religious education. She says: “As a matter of fact, very little effort was made by his own people to instruct him in the Sikh religion. Though every inducement was made them, very few of his Sikh attendants, none of his Sikh priests, or Grunt’hees, and even one Brahminporohut (family priest) consented to come with him from Lahore. The last-named had been prevailed on by Login with difficulty, making many conditions.” (EDL, p 94) On January 31, 1854 Lord Dalhousie wrote to Login: “I have just received the Court’s leave for the Maharajah to go to England.” (LL, p 318) Duleep Singh had been baptized; and Login had high hopes in his nephew Kanwar Shiv Dev Singh also falling in line. But he was still under his mother’s control, who saw the Kanwar, next in succession to Duleep Singh. Login proposed to the Governor General that Duleep Singh should not be separated from his nephew Shiv Dev Singh. Dalhousie had already written to Login in his letter of November 29, 1853: “You give so many good reasons why the Shahzadah should go with His Highness, if he goes to England, that no objection will be made by Government. In that case all your arrangements will be approved.”(LL, pp 317-18) In February 1854, Dalhousie wrote to Login: “No objection will be raised to the Shahzadah going to England, if the Maharajah desires it.” (LL, p 323) When Login told the Kanwar to get ready to go to England, his mother sent a strong protest to the Governor General, accusing Login of his moves to convert the Shahzadah also to Christianity. In March 1854, Login received a letter from the Governor General: “I have sent you a huge memorial from the mother of the Brat [Shiv Dev Singh] you have brought, accusing you of many enormities, of which child-stealing is the least!” (LL, p 328) As a result of the mother’s protest, the idea of taking the Shahzadah to England was dropped. In an official letter of April 18, 1854 Login was informed: “The Government entirely acquits you of attempting to influence the Shahzadah’s religion.” Bhajun Lai’s Payoff Bhajun Lai was conscious of the role he had played, in league with Login, to convert the young Duleep Singh to Christianity; and the following cover up. He was hoping to go to England with the Maharajah. He knew that Login would not refuse to comply with his wishes. But, his parents would not allow him. Lady Login tells us: “Bhajun Lai up to this time [1854] had fully determined to go to England with his master; but his people knew well that if he did so, he would take the opportunity of declaring himself a Christian; they were therefore bent on preventing his going. His convictions were very strong; but in his own case he had not the courage to throw off the bondage of Hindooism, though he had helped the Maharajah in his decision with all the energy of which his nature was capable.” (Emphasis added) Bhajun Lai’s parents were conscious of the hand in glove relationship that the ‘confidential’ employee of the household had with the Guardian. They wanted to cash that relationship. Lady Login writes: “On the occasion of his [Bhajun Lai’s] brother’s marriage he was induced by his father to prefer a request that in the public [marriage] procession through the city the sawaree/cavalcade of His Highness, i.e. the horses, carriages, and elephants, should form a prominent feature, and that the Maharajah’s tents, etc., should also be lent in which to celebrate the wedding festivities.” Evidently, the first part of this fantastic demand was ludicrous. To any other person, Login would have not only flatly refused, but would also have administered a rebuke for making such a proposal. But Login understood, Bhajun Lai wanted a payoff, for the role he had played in Maharaja’s conversion and the cover up, since the Maharaja and the Logins would soon be off to England. Login was in no position to honour such a demand. He cleverly wriggled out of the predicament with the excuse that the bridegroom and the bride were of a tender age. “He told Bhajun Lai that he could only grant his request on one of two conditions, viz., either the marriage was deferred, until the bride and bridegroom were of an age to understand the importance of the contract they were about to enter into (in which case, besides the loan of the things asked for, the Maharajah would bestow a sum of money to set up the young people up in the world), or else, a bond or agreement should be given to the young girl, to the effect that, in the event of her boy-husband dying while she was still marriageable, she should be permitted to select another partner for herself, from among the widowers or unmarried youth of her husband’s family.” (LL, p 321) Bhajun Lai’s family’s demand was fantastic, but it amounted merely temporary pomp and show, which was not worth submitting to Login’s long lasting conditions contrary to Brahmin customs. “Poor Bhajun Lai, in whom family affection and love of money were equally ruling passions, was persuaded by his relatives to send in his resignation, and thus cut himself adrift from his chance of becoming a Christian. ... A handsome present of money and a horse were given to him on leaving.... “It may be as well to mention here all that is known of the later history of Bhajun Lai. He wrote occasionally to Dr Login, but his letters were full of money-getting; he became a bunniah in the city of Furruckabad, and at the time of the Mutiny proved himself faithful, and was of great use, though he was unable to save the property of the Maharajah from loot and destruction. He is now the head of the great firm of tentmakers at Futtehghur (Bhajun Lai & Co). (LL, pp 321-22) In response to the complaint by Shiv Dev Singh’s mother, Sir H Elliot, Secretary to the Government, wrote to Login: “You will inform the Ranee that the Raj of the Punjab is to end forever, and that any contemplation of the restoration of her son, or of anybody else to sovereignty there is a crime against the State, It is her duty to instruct him [Shiv Dev Singh] accordingly. If on any future occasion, either she or her son is detected in expressing or entertaining expectations of restoration to power, or to any other position than that which he now occupies, the consequences will be immediate and disastrous to his interests.” [LL, p 276) Duleep Singh sailed for London on March 19, 1854. Dalhousie gave him a Bible as a parting gift. (LL, p 330) En route, the party stopped in Egypt; visited Cairo and Alexandria. “While at Cairo he was taken round to visit the American Mission Schools6, and was greatly interested to see so many orphan girls being educated in Christian religion.” (LL, p 332) Login was Knighted by Queen Victoria. Duleep Singh was given by her a status equal to that of an English Prince, and he was considered chief of the native princes of India. Rest of the story is beyond the subject of this essay. However, it is worth noting that Duleep Singh became very bitter, after fighting the East India Company, for years, and failing to get any compensation for his personal properties, left in Punjab; for his property destroyed by the mutineers in Fatehgarh (U P) and for revision of his annual allowance, keeping in view an average of 200,000 pounds a year surplus, in Punjab revenues, to which he was entitled through the Treaty of Bhyrowal - “Five-Lakh-Fund”/400,000 to 500,000 rupees a year, for him and his dependants. At one time Duleep Singh’s lawyer told Lady Login: “..The India Office do not seem to be very communicative, and in private they are only abusive -1 may say, vulgarly abusive! ...They can be shown to be in the wrong; but to attain redress is another question.” (EDL, p. 254) On the way to Renunciation of Christianity and back to Sikhism Login-appointed Brahmin teachers at Fatehgarh used to tell tall tales from Hindu tradition and Hindu mythology, to create disbelief in truth of Hindu religion. Similarly, Duleep Singh took advantage of his knowledge of the Bible to quote from scriptures and ridicule Christian pronouncements. “He [Duleep Singh] used his acquaintance with the Scriptures, even at this juncture, in a mere profuse quotation of texts, torn from their contexts, and with an utter irrelevance to their meaning, which produced an effect of profanity.” (EDL, Lady Login’s Recollections, p 264) Maharaja Duleep Singh’s plans to return home fail but he succeeds in fulfilling his wish to re-embrace Sikhism Maharaja’s financial position was very precarious. He considered himself poor, yet he had to maintain the status of a Prince. Since 1858, after coming of age, he was allowed 25,000 pounds a year. He had to pay every year 5,654 pounds for interest on 198,000 pounds that had been loaned to him for a residence, by the Government. There were other heavy deductions, such as 3,000 pounds for insurance on his life, and substantive amounts towards pensions for the widows of Sir John Login, and Colonel Oliphant, who had risen to Login’s position after his death. That reduced his income so much that he could not keep up his establishment at Elvedon, which Government had arranged to sell at his death. He thought it advisable to move to India, where on his present means, he believed, he and his children would enjoy greater advantage than in England, (EDL, p 249) He was also determined to re-embrace Sikhism. “On August 23, 1884, he announced his departure for India, as he could not otherwise undergo all the rites of re-initiation as a Sikh!” (EDL, p 256) In March 1886 Maharaja Duleep Singh publicly announced, from England, his plans to come to Punjab, and issued an appeal to his countrymen to help him. In April 1886, he sailed for India by S S Verona, with his wife Maharani Bamba, and their six children - three sons: Victor Albert Jay, 20; Frederick Victor, 18; Albert Edward, 7; and three daughters: Bamba Sophia Jindan, 17; Catherine Hilda, 15; and Sophia Alexandria. Before leaving for India, he had wound up his affairs in England, closed his house and decided to live in India, “because with his limited resources, he could not maintain his position in England. Living in India would be cheaper.” The only condition imposed on him was that he would not be allowed to visit or live in Punjab. When the ship arrived at Aden, on April 21, 1886 the British Resident in London, Brigadier General AST Hogg went up the ship and told Duleep Singh that he could not proceed further, under orders from Lord Dufferin, Governor-General of India. After fruitless negotiations, 43 days later, on June 3, 1886, Duleep Singh left on a French ship, for Marseilles, France. His family had left for England on May 6, 1886. At the time of starting from England, he had planned to re-embrace Sikhism, fully, by taking Pahul at theAkal Takht, or at Hazur Sahib, Nanded. Since, that was not possible, he took Pahul (initiation ceremony with a double-edged sword) with permission of the Viceroy, at Aden, on May 25, 1886. Notes Dr Login was given the charge of Lahore citadel, but he stretched his hands much farther. On February, 20,1850, Bhai Nihal Singh Muhtmid of “Guru” Sadhu Singh Sodhi of Kartarpur reported to Deputy Secretary to the Board of Administration, Punjab, that Dr Login had taken away his Grantb (the original Kartarpuri Bir of Guru Granth Sahib), and begged that it may be restored to him. After negotiations the Granth Sahib was returned - but not the “Golden Charpoy" on which the Granth Sahib formerly rested. Another volume of “Baba JT [Granth Sahib) taken from Bhaees Ram Singh and Nidhan Singh of Mangat was also returned, in August 1850. The “Golden Charpoy” must have been returned later. (See: Nahar Singh, Documents relating to Guru Gobind Singh’s Swords and Sacred Books of the Sikhs in England, 1967; The Punjab Past and Present, VHI,I- ii, pp 287-313). Login was paid Rupees 1,200 per month - half from Government of India funds and half from the annual income of the Maharaja. (LL, p 202) This young Coorg Princess when arrived in England was converted to Christianity. Efforts were made to get her married to Duleep Singh, but the plan did not materialize. But when praying, do not say the same things over and over again just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. (Mathew 6; 7) “This would have meant for Duleep Singh: Do not say: Ram, Ram; Wahiguru, Wahiguru, etc.” “You must pray this way: Our Father in the heaven...” (Mathew 6; ? Little Coorg - daughter of Maharaja of Coorg, had recently been baptized in London, sponsored by Queen Victoria, giving the girl her own name Victoria Gouramma. Later, in England efforts were made to get the princess married to Duleep Singh but Duleep Singh refused. He was interested in a British girl, related to Login, but Lady Login did not agree. Ten years later, in 1864, when Duleep Singh was returning from India, after immersing the ashes of his mother Rani Jindan, in the waters of Narbada at Nasik, he came to one of these schools in Alexandra, to hurriedly get himself a wife, because he had taken a fifty pound bet with Lady Login that he would get married by June 1, 1864. “I promise to pay Lady Login 50 pounds if I fail to get married by June 1, 1864. — Duleep Singh”. (E Dalhousie Login, Lady Login’s Recollections, p 234) Duleep Singh did not know the 15-year-old bride’s language, and she did not know his. Source - Connecting the Dots in Sikh History by Harbans Singh Noor
  17. I see lots of patka wearing boys into Sikhi up until about age 16. It’s like they are young and dumb (in a good way). Their mums tie their patka and it looks very smart, and bring them to the gurdwara regularly. But age 16 onwards what happens? First they tie their hair back with patka, then they tie African durags. It’s not uncommon to spot them wearing caps and topis. When the facial hair comes through it gets trimmed and shaped. Once 18 drinking and clubbing begins. Young and dumb (being innocent) gets replaced growing up, but what with? Is it fashion, bad sangat or something else? What are your thoughts? Because it’s a real shame. Some kids who were so into Sikhi young becoming what they become. It’s not all boys. Some tie really beautiful dumalas/dastars, let facial hair grow and follow Sikhi. Well done to them!
  18. Found this post on yet another saabat soorat, amritdhari guy who claims to be preaching guru's shabad Notice his thinking underlined in red. Rather than having a positive outlook, he's sure sikh demography will further plummet. Since he already thinks and believes that, he will conduct accordingly. And what the heck is this "Sikhi will outlive sikhs" ?? Also notice the comment "Its quality,not quantity" . really ? do we even have the quality ?
  19. According to Wikipedia Congrats brothers and sisters!
  20. does anyone know where i can buy a taksali gutka with gurmukhi and roman translations? I want to buy one online. If there isnt any, can any one at least tell me if there is a trustable website were i can buy a taksali gutka.
  21. I dont know if you guys are interested, I'm currently listening to this audio book, I'm just a hour in and its interesting how people outside of Sikhs interpret our religion and philosophy. This is a 14 hour audio book. Think it's worth a listen.
  22. They are hind-ians (aka those who inhabit the ancient land of hind) and are more interested in Hind-ism than Hindu-ism. What Sikhs failed to realise is after 1947 when the Hindu's found themselves to have a majority rule again after nearly 1000 years they are more interested in defending and preserving what remains of land of hind than actual reviving and practising hinduism and uphold any of its values or teachings. The most militant and ultra nationalistic hindian will do anything including murders, torture and terrorism to ensure India is safeguarded. And the militant of these people are the types who join R&AW operations against their precieved enemies. We can even see some our own Sikhs who been brainwashed to follow this ideology of hindism especially onces who join the indian army they will rather defend india than Sikhi. We see the results of that when some traitor Sikh generals and sikh soldiers took part in the attack on darbar sahib in 1984 and those traitor punjabi Sikh policemen who killed their own Sikh brothers in the fields of punjab in late 80s to early 90s. Today we see most hindu's do not really believe in their religion, alot of their hindu religious figures the sadhu's, swami's and sants are complaining they are in grave danger of dying out as younger generations dont believe in their paths as the internet is brainwashing the youth into other ideologies. Alot of hindu religious figures are getting caught up in fraud and sexual exploitation scandals and jailed bringing the hindu faith in disrupt. But what is being replaced in young hindu minds is deep sense of nationalism. Anyone who utters a word against india is seen as a heretic, a blasphemer, an anti-national terrorist who wishes no good to their nation. It is their new religion now not hinduism but hind-ism
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