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  1. Dippresion ... Plz Hepl

    i have got failure in my career.. i came back home fer amrit chak leya.. saab thek chal reha c ..bt meri frndz naal ladai ho geyi everyone left me alone.... ik de main kol ja k lad aya becz ohh menu bolda c..i did wrong..parents v dukhi ne i could not get sucess in anything...ajj 3din ho gaye main nitname ni kita..i felt all alone...wt should i do...? :-(
  2. ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਉਤਰਿ ਗਇਓ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਸੰਸਾ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਅਨਬੋਲਤ ਮੇਰੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਨੀ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਦੁਖ ਨਾਠੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਏ ਅਨਦ ਅਨਦ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਬਾਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਕਢਿ ਲੀਨੇ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਅੰਧ ਕੂਪ ਤੇ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਬੰਧਨ ਕਾਟੇ ਬਿਛੁਰਤ ਆਨਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੫੧॥੭੪॥ saarag mehalaa 5 || t(h)aakur thumh saranaaee aaeiaa || outhar gaeiou maerae man kaa sa(n)saa jab thae dharasan paaeiaa ||1|| rehaao || anabolath maeree birathhaa jaanee apanaa naam japaaeiaa || dhukh naat(h)ae sukh sehaj samaaeae anadh anadh gun gaaeiaa ||1|| baah pakar kadt leenae apunae grih a(n)dhh koop thae maaeiaa || kahu naanak gur ba(n)dhhan kaattae bishhurath aan milaaeiaa ||2||51||74|| http://gurmatsangeetproject.com/Recordings/AmrikSinghZakhmi/utar%20gayo%20mayray%20man%20ka%20sansa.mp3
  3. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Saad Sangat Ji I am writing a paper about Sikhism for my University class. I had used a Gurbani Tuk from Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and I'm struggling with how to properly cite Guru Sahib in apa format. Maybe I can cite a website instead like searchgurbani.com or srigranth.org Could someone help me with this? Dhanvaad
  4. Fateh I am looking for the following: Nanak Jor Gobind Ka Puran Guntas (Or on very similar lines) No results from Sikhitothemax and srigranth.org. Can you help identifying where this is quoted from? Fateh
  5. Panj Kalishas

    Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh Can Gursikhs please do vichaar on the Panj Kalishas? These are the five causes of worry/distress. Not sure if that's the right word. Yes, I'm feeling low. They are Avididha, Raag, Dvaikh, Asaamita and Abhinivesh. What are they and how can we over come them? What are some practical steps? *To the Gurmukhs who will come and post do abhiyaas (you're one hundred percent right) many thanks for your contribution but looking to explore these Panj Kalishas from both a spiritual and academic angle* Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh
  6. I've come across some wrong translations of Gurbani on apps such as Gurbani anywhere and also on the website searchgurbai.com - From what I understand they all use the same translations as the same mistakes are on a lot of different apps etc. This is unnaceptable and such applications which portray Gurbani in such a way should not be available. I'm going to display 2 examples of worrying mistakes that I have come across recently. Example #1 http://searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/shabad/3260/line/2 (You just have to read the translations for a few tuks and it becomes clear what i'm on about) Example #2 (A more dangerous example as this is changing Gurbani itself) On the android Gurbani Search app if you search for this shabad : http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=10073 It changes a word on the 2nd tuk. Instead of Gur Simar, it changes it to Gur Daas. This needs to be checked out, all the Gurbani displayed on apps made available to the public need to be reviewed by 2-3 panthic bodies who take their time to check the Gurbani and make sure its translations and the Bani itself is accurate. If you pay attention to the first example, that seems pretty deliberate. I'm sure many others have had similar experiences, would be great if you could also contribute and hopefully somebody who is in touch with the people who put such Gurbani sources out there can get this looked at.
  7. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!! Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Akhand Kirtani Jatha UKs Annual INTERNATIONAL AKHAND KIRTAN SMAGAM 2013 will commemorate via the essence of Shabad Guru, Vaisakhi and 100th Anniversary of the Start of The Ghadar Movement (1913-2013) & The Vaisakhi Massacre of 1978 in Amritsar from Monday 25th March - Sunday 31st March 2013 Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK invites you to join sangat from all over the world for the 18th Annual International Akhand Kirtan Event. Many kirtani jathas and sevadaars from around the world will be taking part in kirtan seva. Gursikh Kirtanis have been invited from India, France, Australia, USA, Canada and throughout the Guru Khalsa Panth Advert Smagam Breakdown The programme details listed below will take place at Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Derby : - Monday 25th March - Wednesday 27th March 2013 Sri Akhand Patth Sahib: 10am Arambh - 6pm Bhog followed by: Rehras Sahib 6pm then Gurbani Veechar & Akhand Kirtan: 6-9pm Thursday 28th March 2013: Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 5.30-9am Rehras Sahib 6pm then Gurbani Veechar & Akhand Kirtan: 6-10pm Friday 29th March 2013: Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 5.30-10am Rehras Sahib 6pm then Gurbani Veechar & Akhand Kirtan: 6-10pm Saturday 30th March 2013: Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 5.30-10am Rehras Sahib 6pm then Gurbani Veechar & Akhand Kirtan: 6pm-12am Sunday 31st March 2013: Panthic Seminar: 10.30am-1pm Raensbhai Kirtan MAIN INTERNATIONAL RAENSBHAI KIRTAN ON Sunday 31st March 2013 from 7pm-5am at Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Princes Street, Derby, DE23 8NT. Tel : 01332 773010 For further details contact Gen Sec Bhai Rajinder Singh (07966 974505), email sevaa@akj.org Amrit Sanchaar AMRIT SANCHAAR: Sunday 31st March at 5pm at Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Derby Can all ablakhyees contact Bhai Taranjeet Singh (07877 888874) to provide their names for the Amrit sanchaar. If you have questions, you can contact Jathedar Raghbir Singh on 01926 741 944 or Bhai Jarnail Singh on 01926 771 944 If any persons do not have full kakaars, then AKJ UK will provide them as part of the seva. Live Broadcast The whole Smagam & Raensbhai will be broadcast live on www.akj.org, Sangat TV (SKY 847) and Sikh Channel (SKY 840) Additional Programmes Special PANTH TIME on Saturday 30th March from 3pm - 5pm by Sikh Channel · Panthic SEMINAR AZAADEE Dedicated to Ghadar Movement on Sunday 31st March, 10.30am - 1pm · Special Q&A on Sunday 31st March, 4 - 5.30pm by Sangat TV · Gurbani Kantth Competition on Saturday 30th March, 2 - 6pm Contact: Giani Kulvinder Singh for details 07891 837208 · Special exhibitions will be on display in National Sikh Museum covering history from the Guru Khalsa Panths, the 1978 Shaheedi Saka and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Accommodation Accommodation has been arranged for the whole Smagam. Bibian accommodation has been specially arranged. For further details, contact Bhai Bhupinder Singh on 07719225401 Airport Pickups Transport will be arranged for all Gursikhs arriving from abroad at Heathrow, Gatwick, Birmingham, and all other UK Airports. Please contact Bhai Onkar Singh (07737749556). Coach Transport Coaches/Mini-buses will leave from the following towns for the Raensbhai Keertan in Derby on Sun 31st March. Please reserve your seats with your town reps ASAP. * Southall - Singh Sabha Havelock Rd at 5pm, Sevadaar Bhai Japsimran Singh 07400896809 * Slough - Khalsa School Wexham Rd at 5.30 pm, Sevadaar Bhai Onkar Singh 07737 749556 * Ilford - Singh Sabha High Rd, at 5pm. Sevadaar Bhai Upkar Singh 07747 770156 * Coventry - Singh Sabha Cross Rd at 6.30pm, Sevadaar Bhai Kulwant Singh 07854136413 * Woolwich - Ramgharia Gurdwara, Mason Hill, at 5pm, Sevadaar Bibi Navrup Kaur 07747 534502 * Croydon - Singh Sabha at 5pm. Sevadaar Bhai Harvinder Singh 07979 515849 * Tooting - Khalsa Centre Upper Tooting Rd at 4.30pm. Sevadaar Bhai Harvinder Singh 07979515849 * Gravesend - New Guru Nanak Gurdwara at 5pm, Sevadaar Bhai Seva Singh 07831 712430 * Manchester - Guru Harkrishan Gurdwara 6pm, Sevadaar Bhai Gurdip Singh / Bhai Jaskirat Singh 07723 921414 * Hitchin - Gurdwara, Wilbury Way at 5.30pm, Sevadaar Bhai Harkamal Singh 07816361811 * Leamington - New Gurdwara at 6.30pm, Sevadaar Bhai Joginder Singh 07723 367871 * South Shields - Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Kaas, at 5pm, Sevadaar Bhai Karnail Singh 07801 431855 * Reading - Singh Sabha, Cumberland Rd at 5pm, Sevadaar Bhai Parminder Singh 07984451061 * Bradford - Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Wakefield Road at 6pm, Sevadaar Bhai Maadho Singh 07850 947723 * Glasgow - Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Berkley Street, at 2pm, Sevadaar Bhai Manjit Singh 07769 354507 All other UK gurdwara's are requested to provide transport for their local sangat. Please ring the designated area sevadaar to book your places on the coaches. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This Month, Akhand Kirtani Jatha will be doing in addition to the above UK smagam, other smagams in Anandpur Sahib, Amritsar & Bathinda (India), Stockholm & Barcelona (Europe), Maryland, Boston, Bay Area (USA), Vancouver (Canada) and Melbourne (Australia). Many of these will be broadcast live on www.akj.org. Recordings of smagams from Vancouver ( Canada ), California-Bay , New Jersey ( USA ), Seattle (USA), Bathinda ( India ) are now available to download on www.akj.org. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!! Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Das Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK Jathedar Raghbir Singh For Smagam Details : Bhai Jaspal Singh 07788597073 / Bhai Bhupinder Singh 07719225401
  8. serial name had been changed from GURBANI to BANI ISHQ DA KALMA .....as avtar singh makkar had wrote letter to tiwari ...and govt. recently taken the action
  9. Village marriage

    Where does it say I can't marry someone from the same village as me in India. We are not blood related but different caste. Does it say in the gurbani? She is a Chohan and I am a pooni there is no bloodline plus we different caste.
  10. WJKK WJKF I came to know that 'chupehara' is conducted at Baba Deep Singh Ji Gurudwara Shaheedaan, Amritsar on every Sunday... I heard that Sukhmani Sahib, Chaupai Sahib and Japji Sahib Paaths are recited in it. Can anyone tell me some more details regarding it and when exactly 'chupehara' begins?? Plz tell me Regards Amanpreet Singh
  11. An Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs by Christopher Shackle A book on Gurbani Grammer in English Click here book
  12. Pothi/ Parkash/maryada?

    Gurfateh Jio, Sangat ji I have a question. I have a pothi at home that used to be a part of a set of 2 pothi's. The one I have is the second half of the guru granth sahib. I would like to start reading from the guru granth sahib more frequently than I have been and was wondering If I purchased the first half in pothi form how would I keep the two pothis? Of course gurbani deserves the ultimate respect but if both pothi's are under one roof would I have to do parkash of guru granth sahib ji? I don't have the discipline for that yet, don't know the maryada completely either and in not wanting to make a mistake I thought I would ask for advice first. Das
  13. Keertan Notations

    Waheguruji ka khalsa Waheguruji ki fateh ji Dear Sangat ji There have been a couple of posts enquiring about Keertan Notations. Therefore, I'd like to start a thread dedicated to keertan notations alone. Any notations in previous posts in other threads will be pasted here along with some others. One post will have a keertan notation for one shabad alone. If anyone would like to request notations for a particular shabad they wish to learn, please PM me or start another thread. I request anyone to refrain from any kind of discussions on this thread so we could keep it for notations alone. Thank you.
  14. 13 books pdf online

    Here are some books that i have gathered overtime and hope the sangat is interested in reading them. Some of them you might have seen before so forgive me. Waheguru Gubani Healing Guide in English (sarb rog ka Aukhad Nam book) how to do simran and what causes ailment and their remediesNaam Seva tai Hukam by Balbir Singh A must read for anyone who wants to do Naam Simran Dasam Granth Da Mahatav by Guru Nanak Dev MissionArticle on Rana Surat Singh Great Humanist Guru Nanak Dev Ji By Sir Jogendra Singh & Raja Sir Daljit Singh Ranjit Singh: Maharaj of Punjab by Khushwant Singh The Sikh Way of Life by Ranbir-singh Glimpses of the Divine Masters by Ranbir-singh November 1984 Pogroms of Sikhs in IndiaHistory of the Punjab and of the Rise,Progress, & Present Condition of the Sect and Nation of The Sikhs 1846 Gobind GIta A Critical study of the life and teachings of Sri Guru Nanak Dev by Sewaram Singh Thapar Sources on the Life & Teachings of Guru Nanak Sikhs by A.H. Bingley 1899
  15. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh Sangat ji, you may not have heard of "Everythings 13" a sikh educational charity, however some of you may know about our YouTube channel "Basics of Sikhi". Most of you may not be aware that (with Guruji's kirpa and aagiaa) we're embarking on a new and comprehensive project to spread Guruji wisdom across the UK and Globally. Its called Plan BE13. Here is what our channel has on it currently.. Here is a video about Plan BE13 for 2013 Essentially we are hoping to do a 5 stage process of Parchar (1) Getting people into Sikhi (already happening) - Talks at Gurdwaras and Sikh Societies at colleges and Universities to interest youth/others into Sikhi and bring onto youtube channel - Spreading word about the Youtube Channel using facebook, twitter and and getting people into watching videos about Sikhi when they have spare time (there are around 80 videos on our youtube channel already) (2) Building a solid foundation (already happening) - holding a One Day Course +Kirtan Katha called "Re-Assessing the Fundamentals - Vaheguru, Guru and You" at various Gurdwaras (first one is due at Park Avenue Gurdwara Main Hall on the 29th December 2012) - 12 topic introductory course to Sikhi - called the WhyGuru Course. This course goes through the history of Sikhi from Guru Nanak to the present day and also has 4 separate topics which cover Guru Granth Sahib ji, The Khalsa, Raag Kirtan and Sikh Spiritual concepts of merging with the Divine. We already delivered this once in May this year and it was a success. (there is a video about this on our channel with video testimonials - we had 5 non-punjabi people attend. One lady, ex-muslim convert has now taken Amrit). (3) Learning Basics of Gurmukhi (planning done, needs filming) - A series of videos that goes into Why its important we learn Gurmukhi and How does Gurmukhi work? (Penti Akhar, Moharni) - Series of common vocabulary in Gurmukhi and how the words are put together - Basics of Santhiya - Slow paat, in video format with downloadable MP3s (4) Japji Sahib Vichaar classes (already happening) - We're doing weekly English katha of Japji Sahib and with Guru's kirpa are at the 34th Pauri. - Katha will be transcripted and put into an ebook format - Set up Japji Sahib Vichaar classes at variour gurdwaras where attendees would learn in their own time (watch the video, read ebook, watch/listen to other recommended katha (English by Bhai Sukhraj Singh, Punjabi- Maskeen ji, Giani Pinderpal Singh etc) and then come together for the vichaar class at their local gurdwara (ie build a sadhsangat) to discuss Japji sahib, pauri by Pauri. (5) Further Study (to be developed as part of Plan BE13) - More Gurbani Katha - planning on Rehras sahib and Asa Di Vaar - Basics of Kirtan and Tabla - Attend an intermediate level - "WhyKhalsa WhyFateh Course" In terms of funding, our parent we've raised about £18k of our £52k target for 2013 already. 99% of this has come from the sangat, (mostly youth and non-amritdhari). We're not charging anything for katha or the courses, as we see this as Spiritual Langar (Bhugat Giaan) which should be given freely and be dependent purely on Sangat kirpa (daeaa bhandarani). Read more about the specifics of Plan BE13 here: http://www.virginmoneygiving/charities/everythings13 Please do ardaas for us to Satguru that we stay on this path and stay true to Sikhi. Thanks for reading ji, bhul chuk maaf Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh
  16. 3 books pdf online

    here are great books that are now online Gurbani Vyakran By Prof Sahib Singh Gatha Sri Ad Granth Part 1 by Prof. Pirra Singh Sri Kartarpur Bir De Darshan by Bhai Jodh Singh
  17. Are there any Gurbani apps which offer Gurbani in romanised english like search Gurbani does? Just needed a Nitnem Gutka on my tablet thats all.
  18. Does anyone have any purataan sources relating to meetings between Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib? I just want to know what transpired in these meetings.
  19. With Guru Maharaj's Apaar Kirpa the Akal Design team is proud to announce iGurbani for iOS devices. This app requires no internet connection and contains all of the Sikh Scriptures. The focus of this app is to allow the user to accurately read the shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji following a revolutionary style of showing the vishraams. Instead of commas and other punctuation the vishraams are highlighed in a specific color. PLEASE NOTE: Since the Gurmukhi is from a new source and the database has been rebuilt from the ground up there are some errors that we could not catch during development. We are going to rely on the Sangat to help us identify and correct those errors. Scriptures 1. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 2. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji 3. Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaaran 4. Bhai Nand Lal Ji Translations ENGLISH - Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa - Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji OTHER TRANSLATIONS - SGGS Darpan (Prof. Sahib Singh Ji) - Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji - Faridkot Teeka VISHRAAM - Baba Darshan Singh Ji (Mallehwal) - Baba Jaswant Singh (Bhagat Ji) For more information please visit http://www.igurbani.com/about. CURRENT STATUS: The app has been submitted to the Apple App Store and is currently Waiting for Review.
  20. I did this write up of sorts on why Ram Chandar, is not the Guru Sahibaan's Ram: RAM CHANDAR. WHO IS HE? AND HOW DO SIKHS VIEW HIM? Over time Right-Wing Hindu politicians have come up with the argument that the name of Ram is mentioned more than any other name in Gurbani. No other Sikh source supports this 'hyped-up' claim, nor have these right-wing extremists provided any proof except books published by them or the teachings of self-styled theologians. This has obviously lead to a heated debate as to who Ram is according to Gurbani. Guru Sahiban have u sed the name of Ram in Gurbani to mean Waheguru. Out of the many shabads which prove this claim we chose the following from Gurbani, to prove our point: ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥ Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār. Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥ So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190|| Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190|| ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥ Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥ Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191|| One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191|| Bhagat Kabir here has made a distinction for himself as to who the real Ram is. One Ram, the son of Dasrath and incarnation of Vishnu is contained only within himself. The other Ram, Bhagat Kabir's Ram is all pervading and everywhere. He is the one who Guru Sahiban termed as Akal Purakh, Waheguru Hari etc. Guru Nanak Dev Ji states: ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥ ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ "The Formless alone, Nanak, is without fear, many are Ramas as the dust of His Feet, many Krishnas. Many are their stories and many are the Vedas." (SGGS - Ang 464). There are many Ramas who are the dust of his feet. The 'his' in this question again is Akal Purakh. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is often stated as having worshipped Ram, due to him writing Ram Avtar. It is stated that Guru Sahib deviated from the path of the following Gurus by writing Ram avtar but lets see what the Guru has to say about Ram, in Ram avtar: "Ever since I have grasped Your feet, I have not thought of anybody else. I do not accept the doctrines enunciated by various faiths, believing in Ram, Rahim, Puranas and Qoran. The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas mention different concepts but I do not subscribe to any of them. O God, the Sword-bearer (of justice)! With Your Grace, all that has been uttered by me has been done under Your command. Dohra! I have shunned every door and have entered Your door Please hold my arm and keep my honour, Gobind is ever Your slave." (Raam Avtar, Guru Gobind Singh). Ram Chander was born of a woman. His mother's name was Kaushalya. Puranic sources relate that Dasrath, Ram's father, had no son but three wives. He performed a yajna to have his wife beget sons. Kaushalya gave birth to Ram. Ram cannot be God if we look at Gurmat because he was born of a woman: ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥ "Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3|| He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation. The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1||" (SGGS - Ang 1136). Many other aspects of Ram are rejected outright by Gurbani. Ram is often accepted as being an incarnation of Vishnu. The seventh to be exact. Gurbani says: ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਊ ਤੂ ਕਦ ਕਾ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਸਿਰੇ ਤੈ ਅਗਨਤ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਯਾ ਮਨ ਮਦ ਕਾ ॥ "O Formless Lord God, You are eternally intact; no one can say how You came into being. You created countless Brahmas and Vishnus; their minds were intoxicated with emotional attachment." (Ang 1403). Countless Vishnus who themselves are attached to creation but not the creator. Whats the point of worshipping one when there are countless more? Guru Gobind Singh Ji clearly states: ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥ “I do not seek blessings or hail Ganesh before I start any task. (In old times, often Ganesh would be hailed before starting any task). Nor do I worship Krishan or Vishnu etc. I have heard of them but I do not recognise any of them. I am engrossed in the loving devotion of my Lord (Waheguru) alone.” (DG – P. 733, Krishan Avtar. How could the Gurus have worshipped Rama when they did not believe in his source Vishnu? Our Gurus were the one and same jot from beginning till end they would not have contradicted their actions in the predecessor's form. How hard is all this for Hindus to understand? They can understand flying apes, ten-headed demi-gods but not a soul being the same yet with different bodies. A Sikh is required by the Guru to place his faith only in the Guru: :ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ Saṯgur merā saḏā saḏā nā āvai na jā▫e. My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go. ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥ Oh abẖināsī purakẖ hai sabẖ mėh rahi▫ā samā▫e. ||13|| He is the Imperishable Creator Lord; He is permeating and pervading among all. ||13|| What else does Gurbani say about the devte? A:ਰਾਮੁ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨੁ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥ रामु गइओ रावनु गइओ जा कउ बहु परवारु ॥ Rām ga▫i▫o rāvan ga▫i▫o jā ka▫o baho parvār. Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives. and ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥ ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥ Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.(Sri Dasam Granth Sahib) Even Ram Chand passed away, yet God never takes birth nor dies according to Gurmat; so Ram cannot be God. ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ ॥ Ek Siv Bhae Ek Gae Ek Pher Bhae, Raamchanndra Krishan Ke Avtaar Bhee Anek Hain|| एक सिव भए एक गए एक फेर भए रामचंद्र क्रिसन के अवतार भी अनेक हैं ॥ There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being; there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna. 66810 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੪੮ ਪੰ. The Guru's Ram on the other hand is Waheguru Akal Purakh as proved by Bhagat Kabir Ji's Shabad. Of course many Hindus argue that thats only Bhagat Kabir Ji's thinking. But we have to remember that the Gurus, Bhagats, Bhatts, Gursikhs in reality all had one Guru and that was God, Waheguru. It is him they tell man to worship not any son of Dasrath who couldn't protect even his own wife! Now let us look at some facts about Ram Chandar, is he really an embodiment of Gurmat? 1.) Bali, the king of Kishkindha was at war with Raksash named Mayavi. Bali pursued Mayavi deep into a cave in the earth. Before going he asked his brother, Sugriva to wait outside the cave. Sugriva however had other plans. He returned to Kishkindha and declared himself King. As prime minister he appointed Hanuman, the simian demi-God. In this grab of power he derived Angad, the son of Bali of kingship. When Bali came out of the cave, after killing his nemesis he did not find Sugriva there. After coming to know of what had transpired he raised an army and drove Sugriva out of Kishkindha. The two brothers were now openly at war and had become enemies. Knowing fully well the deception of Sugriva and his greed Ram Chandar (the so-called king of Dharma) still decided to help him against forth righteous Bali. In one of the battles fought between the two brothers, Ram 'Ji' hid behind a tree and through deception gave orders to kill Bali. After Bali's death he appointed Sugriva as the king of Kishkindha. The kingship belonged to the next of kin Angad, yet Angad was forgotten in all this. Sugriva had already proven his colours once so could not have been appointed as the boy's supervisor, yet what did Ram 'Ji' do though? He helped in the demise of an innocent king and that too through deception. It was due to this incident that Sugriva offered to help Ram 'Ji' in attacking Ravan. Many anti-Panthic forces have the cheek to compare this incident with Guru Gobind Singh Ji's helping of Bahadur Shah. One fact straight away destroys this comparision, and that fact is that Bahadur Shah was the rightful heir to Aurangzeb's throne. Secondly he had himself gone to Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a supplicant. Guru Sahib helped him, irregardless of his (Bahadur Shah's father's misdeeds). Nor did Guru Ji fear the mughals, who at this stage had given up pursuing him and after Aurangzeb's fanatic policies were beginning to crumble. The very fact that Bahadur Shah had to ask Guru Ji for assistance in helping crush rebellion against him by various members of his families shows the weakness of the mughals. Furthermore the mughal records at the time can prove this. 2.) According to the 'Balmik Sarg' (6-115) after the deaths of Ravan, and his son Inderjeet; Hanuman brought Seeta to Ram 'Ji'. Great king Ram 'Ji' however couldn't care less at this stage. taaM tu paarshve sthitaaM prahvaaM raamaH saMprekShye maithiliim | hR^idayaantargataM bhaavaM vyaahartumupachakrame || 6-115-1 1. samprekShya= seeing; taam maithiliim= that Seetha; sthitaam= who stood; paarshve= at his vicinity; prahvaam= bowing low; raamaH= Rama; upachakrame= began; vyaahartum= to tell; bhaavam= his feeling; hR^idayaantargatam= hidden in his heart (as follows). Seeing that Seetha, who stood at his vicinity bowing low, Rama began to tell his feeling hidden in his heart (as follows): eShaasi nirjitaa bhadre shatruM jitvaa raNaajire | pauruShaadyadanuShTheyaM mayaitadupapaaditam || 6-115-2 2. bhadre= my dear lady!; eShaa= you; asi= are; nirjitaa= won back (by me); jitvaa= after conquering; shatrum= the enemy; raNaajire= in the battle-field; tat yat= that which; anuShTheyam= is to be done; pauruShaat= through human effort; upapaaditam= has been accomplished; mayaa= by me. "You are won back by me, after conquering the enemy in the battle-field, my dear lady! That which is to be done through human effort, has been accomplished by me." gato.asmyantamamarShasya dharShaNaa saMpramaarjitaa | avamaanashcha shatrashcha yugapannihatau mayaa || 6-115-3 3. gataH asmi= I have come to; antam= the end; amarShasya= of my indignation; dharShaNaa= and my outrage; sampramaarjitaa= has been completely requited; shatrushcha= and the enemy; anumaanashcha= as well as the contempt; nihatau= have been wiped out; yugavat= all at once; mayaa= by me. "I have come to the end of my indignation and my outrage has been completely requited as also the contempt against the enemy have been wiped out, all at once, by me." adya me pauruShaM dR^iShTamadya me saphalaH shramaH | adya tiirNapratijJNo.ahaM prabhavaamyadya chaatmanaH || 6-115-4 4. adya= now; me= my; pauruSham= manly strength; dR^iShTam= has been seen (by all); adya= today; me= my; shramaH= toil; saphalaH= has borne fruit; adya= now; aham= I; tiirNa pratijJNaH= have fulfilled my promise; adya= today; prabhavaami= I am the master; aatmanaH= of myself. "Now, my manly strength has been seen by all. Today, my toil has borne fruit. Now, I have fulfilled my promise. Today, I am the master of myself." yaa tvaM virahitaa niitaa chalachittena rakShasaa | daivasaMpaadito doSho maanuSheNa mayaa jitaH || 6-115-5 5. yaa tvam= you, who; virahitaa= became deserted from me; niitaa= was taken away; chalachittena rakShasaa= by a ficle-minded demon; doShaH= the wrong; daivasampaaditaH= brought about by the destiny jitaH= has been corrected; mayaa= by me; maanuSheNa= a human being. "The wrong done to you, when you were deserted from me, in that you were taken away by a fickle-minded demon, which was ordained by the destiny, has been corrected by me as a human being." saMpraaptamavamaanaM yastejasaa na pramaarjati | kastasya pauruSheNaartho mahataapyalpachetasaH || 6-115-6 6. kaH arthaH= what is the use; pauruSheNa= of a prowess; tasya mahataapi alpachetasH= of a weak-minded man, even if it is mighty; yaH na pramaarjati= who does not wipe out; sampraaptam avamaanam= the insult fallen to his lot; tejasaa= by means of his energy? "What is the use of a prowess, however great, of that weak-minded man who does not wipe out, by his energy, the insult fallen to his lot?" laN^ghunaM samudrasya laN^kaayaashchaapi mardanam | saphalaM tasya cha shlaaghyamadya karma hanuumataH || 6-115-7 7. shlaaghya= the praise-worthy; karma= act; tasya hanuumataH= of that Hanuma; laN^ghanam= (namely) the crossing; samudrasya= of the ocean; mardanam cha= and the destroying; laN^kaayaaH= of Lanka; the destroying; laNKaayaaH= of Lanka; adya= today; saphalam= has borne fruit. "The praise-worthy act of Hanuma in the form of crossing of the ocean and the destroying of Lanka, has borne fruit today." yuddhe vikramatashchaiva hitaM mantrayatastathaa | sugriivasya sasainyasya saphalo.adya parishramaH || 6-115-8 8. parishramaH= the endeavour; sugriivasya= of Sugreeva; sa sainyashcha= together with his army; vikramataH= for his attack; yuddhe= in the battle; tathaa= and; mantrayataH= his counsel; hitam= of a good advice; saphalah= is fruitful; adya= today. "The endeavour of Sugreeva, who exhibited his prowess on the battle-field with his army and tendered a good advice, is fruitful today." vibhiiSaNasya cha tathaa saphalo.adya parishramaH | viguNaM bhraataraM tvaktvaa yo maaM svayamupasthitaH || 6-115-9 9. tathaa= furthermore; parishramashcha= the exertion; vibhiiShaNashcha= of Vibhishana; yaH= who; tyaktvaa= after abandoning; bhraataram= his brother; viguNam= who was void of good qualities; svayam= andpersonall; upasthitaH= reached; maam= me; saphalaH= is fruitful; adya= today. "Furthermore, the exertion of Vibhishana, who after deserting his brother who was void of good qualities, sought my presence, is fruitful today. ityevaM vadataH shrutvaa siitaa raamasya tadvachaH | mR^igiivotphullanayanaa babhuuvaashrupariplutaa || 6-115-10 10. shrutvaa= hearing; tat= those; vachaH= words; vadataH= spoken; tiyevam= thus; raamasya= by Rama; siitaa= Seetha; utphullanayanaa= her eyes wide open; mR^igiiva= like those of a female-deer; babhuuva was; ashrupariplutaa= filled with tears. Hearing those words spoken thus by Rama, Seetha with her eyes wide open like those of a female-deer, was bathed in tears. pashyatastaaM tu raamasya samiipe hR^idayapriyaam | janavaadabhayaadraajJNo babhuuva hR^idayaM dvidhaa || 6-115-11 11. hR^idayam= the heart; raajJNaH raamasya= of King Rama; pashyataH= as he saw; taam= Seetha (hR^idaya priyaam= the beloved of his heart); samiipe= near him; babhuuva dvidha= was torn; janavaada bhayaat= for fear of the talk of the public. The heart of King Rama, as he saw Seetha, (the beloved of his heart) near him, was torn for fear of public scandal. siitaamutpalapatraakShiiM niilakuJNchitamuurdhajaam | avadadvai varaarohaaM madhye vaanararakShasaam || 6-115-12 12. madhye= in the midst; vaanara raakShasaam= of monkeys and demons; avadat vai= Rama spoke; siitaam= to Seetha; utpala patraakShiim= whose eyes resembled the petals of a lotus; niila kuN^jitu muurdhajaam= hair, dark in hue as also curled; vanaarohaam= and hips, excellent. In the midst of monkeys and demons, Rama spoke (as follows) to Seetha, whose eyes resembled the petals of a lotus, who wore dark curly hair and was endowed with fine hips. yatkartavyaM manuShyeNa dharSaNaaM pratimaarjataa | tatkR^itaM raavaNaM hatvaa mayedaM maanakaaN^kkShiNaa || 6-115-13 13. mayaa= by me; maanakaaN^kShiNaa= wanting for an honour; tat idam= this particular act; yat= which; kartavyam= ought to be done; manuShyeNa= by a man; kR^itam= has been done; hatvaa= in killing; raavaNam= Ravana; pratimaarjitaa= and thus wiping away; dharShaNaam= the insult. "I, wanting for an honour, have done this particular act, which ought to be done by a man, in killing Ravana and thus wiping away the insult meted out to me." nirjitaa jiivalokasya tapasaa bhaavitaatmanaa | agastyena duraadharShaa muninaa dakShiNeva dik || 6-115-14 14. nirjitaa= (you have been) won by me; bhaavitaatmanaa= whose mind stands purified; tapasaa= by asceticism; dakShiNaa dik iva= as the southern quarter; duraadharShaa= which was difficult to be approached; jiivalokasya= by the world of mortals; (was conquered by) agastyena= by the Sage Agastya. "You have been won by me, whose mind stands purified by asceticism as the southern quarter, which was difficult to be approached by the world of mortals, was conquered by the Sage Agastya." viditashchaastu bhadraM te yo.ayaM raNaparishramaH | sutiirNaH suhR^idaaM viiryaanna tvadarthaM mayaa kR^itaH || 6-115-15 rakShataa tu mayaa vR^ittamapavaadam cha sarvataH | prakhyaatasyaatmavaMshasya nyaN^gaM cha parimaarjataa || 6-115-16 15-16. viditaH astu= let it be known (to you); ayam yuddhaparishramaH= that this endeavour in the shape of war; sutiirNaH= which has been successfully carried through; viiryaat= due to the strength; suhR^idaam= of my friends; na kR^itaH= was not undertakne; tvadartham= for your sake; te bhadram astu= let there be happiness to you!; mayaa= (this was done) by me; rakShataa= in order to keep up; vR^itam= my good conduct; parimaarjitaa= and wipe off; apavaadam cha= the evil-speaking; sarvataH= from all sides; nyaNgam= as well as the insinuation; prakhyaatasya aatmavamshasya= on my own illustrious dynasty. "Let it be known to you that this endeavor in the shape of war, which has been successful carried through, due to the strength of my friends was not undertaken for your sake. Let there be prosperity to you! This was done by me in order to keep up my good conduct and to wipe off the evil-speaking from all sides as well as the insinuation on my own illustrious dynasty." praaptachaaritrasaMdeha mama pratimukhe sthitaa | diipo netraaturasyeva pratikuulaasi me dR^iDham || 6-115-17 17. praapta chaaritra sandehaa= (You) with a suspicion arisen on your character; sthitaa= standing; pratimukhe= in front of; mama= me; dR^iDham pratikuulaa api= are extremely disagreeable; me= to me; diipaH iva= even as a light; netraaturasya= to one, who is suffering from a poor eye-sight. "You, with a suspicion arisen on your character, standing in front of me, are extremely disagreeable to me, even as a light to one, who is suffering from a poor eye-sight." tadgachchha tvaanujaane.adya yatheShTaM janakaatmaje | etaa dasha disho bhadre kaaryamasti na me tvayaa || 6-115-18 18. janakaatmaje= O Seetha!; tat= that is why; anujaane= I am permitting; tvaa= you; adya= now; gachchha= go; yatheShTam= wherever you like; tetaaH dasha dishaH= to any of these ten directions; naasti= there is no; kaaryam= work to be done; me= to me; tvayaa= by you; bhadre= my dear lady! "O Seetha! That is why, I am permitting you now. Go wherever you like. All these ten directions are open to you, my dear lady! There is no work to be done to me, by you." kaH pumaaMstu kule jaatah striyaM paragR^ihoShitaam | tejasvii punaraadadyaat suhR^illekhyena chetasaa || 6-115-19 19. kaH tejasvii pumaan= which noble man; jaataH= born; kule= in an illustrious race; aadadyaat= will take; punaH= back; striyam= a woman; paragR^ihoShitaam= who lived in another's abode; suhR^illekhyena chetasaa= with an eager mind? "Which noble man, born in an illustrious race, will take back a woman who lived in another's abode, with an eager mind?" raavaNaaN^kaparikliShTaaM dR^iShTaaM duShTena chakShuShaa | kathaM tvaaM punaraadadyaaM kulaM vyapadishan mahat || 6-115-20 20. vyapadishan= while mentioning about; mahat kulam= my great lineage; katham= how; aadadyaam= can I accept; punaH= again; tvaam= you; raavaNaaN^ka parikliShTaan= who were harassed in Ravana's lap while being borne away by him) dR^iShTaam= and who were seen (by him) duShTena chakShuShaa= with evil looks? "While mentioning greatly about my lineage, how can I accept again, you who were harassed in Ravana's lap (while being borne away by him) and who were seen (by him) with evil looks?" tadarthaM nirjitaa me tvaM yashaH pratyaahR^itaM mayaa | naasth me tvayyabhiShvaN^go yatheShTaM gamyataamitaH || 6-115-21 21. tvam nirjitaa= you were won; me= by me; tadartham= for that end (viz. retrieval of my lost honour); yashaH= the honour; pratyaahR^itam= has been restored; mayaa= by me; me= for me; na asti= there is no; abhiShvaN^gaH= intense attachment; tvayi= in you; gamyataam= you may go; yatheShTam= wherever you like; itaH= from here. "You were won by me with that end in view (viz. the retrieval of my lost honour). The honour has been restored by me. For me, there is no intense attachment in you. You may go wherever you like from here." Seeta's reply was one of sorrow and supplication. She begged Ram 'Ji' to let her prove her innocence. Hence an agni pariksha, or test of fire was decided upon. Agni,^ the God of fire appeared and himself told Ram 'Ji' Seeta was innocent. Agni commanded Ram 'Ji' to take her back. But more suffering was still in store for Seeta. Ram 'Ji' back in Ayodhya became king, yet he did not treat Seeta like his wife or queen and tongues started to wage. Especially when Seeta became pregnant. The court jester reported this to Ram 'Ji' and Ram 'Ji' ordered brother Lakshman to take Seeta to the Ganges and leave her there alone and friendless. Lakshman completed the task left up to him and a heavily pregnant woman was left to the mercy of nature. Yet there is one even above the Hindu Gods* who smiled upon her, and soon his devotee Balmik found her and took her in. In time Seeta gave birth to two boys, Luv and Khush who became deadly archers like their fickle-minded father. Even Ram 'Ji' had heard of Balmik and invited him to a Yajna. Alongwith Balmik went the two boys. At Ayodhya they sang songs about their mother and Ram 'Ji' asked to their background. They told him they were the sons of a woman who was banished to the forest by an unworthy and weak minded husband, on hearing this Ram ‘Ji’ realised that these boys were talking about none other than him. After revealing to the duo who he really was he asked Seeta to come back to Ayodhya in an assembly of saints and prove her innocence. Seeta presented herself and gave testimony saying, she had never thought about any other man than Ram. Even in her dreams. But Seeta was not ready to forgive Ram Ji herself. She said that let the earth swallow her, and it is said that the earth opened and she fell in the fissure. Clearly she had had enough of a fickle-minded and suspicious husband. According to Gurmat a woman is pure and equal to man in all respects.** Hence her opinion should be asked on all matters. The Gurus did not definitely worship such a figure who was so stone-hearted that he left his wife at the mercy of the elements. Ram ‘Ji’ would definitely have taken the seven vows of marriage (according to Hindu tradition) in the presence of fire which bound him to fidelity and life-long companionship. Yet he broke this vow, another sign of non-Gurmat as a Gurmukh is one who does not break his word.*** 3.) The description of Ram ‘Ji’s’ lifestyle is one totally rejected by Gurmat. According to Balmik Ji (Read Uttra Khand) Ram 'Ji'‘used to watch Apasaras (beautiful women) dancing and enjoyed liquor of the finest quality. Ram ‘Ji’s’ drinking bouts lasted well into the night and many beautiful women were brought for him from China and Manchuria. It is for this lavish lifestyle that Balmik Ji has rightly labelled Ram ‘Ji’ as a “prince among ladies’ men.” He was even a consumer of meat. All these actions do not tally with any figure of dharma (religion) or righteousness and is very far from the course of Gurmat. 4.) Over the course of time, it has been said many times that Ram Chander was a just man/demi-god. Let us look at the truth of this statement. A Brahman’s son died a premature death and a Shudra named Shambhuk was blamed. Shambhuk’s only sin was that he undertook religious rituals. The Brahmin conveyed his news and distress to Ram ‘Ji’ and asked for justice. According to Gurmat all the four varnas or castes have the right to seek God and perform religious rituals, ਬ੝ਰਹਮਨ ਬੈਸ ਸੂਦ ਅਰ੝ ਖ੝ਯ੝ਯਤ੝ਰੀ ਡੋਮ ਚੰਡਾਰ ਮਲੇਛ ਮਨ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਪ੝ਨੀਤ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਭਜਨ ਤੇ ਆਪ੝ ਤਾਰਿ ਤਾਰੇ ਕ੝ਲ ਦੋਇ ॥੧॥ Barahman bais sūḝ ar kẖa­yṯarī dom cẖandĝr malėcẖẖ man so­ė. Ho­ė punīṯ bẖagvanṯ bẖajan ṯė ĝp ṯĝr ṯĝrė kul ḝo­ė. ॥1॥ Whether he is a Brahmin, a Vaishya, a Soodra, or a Kh'shaatriya; whether he is a poet, an outcaste, or a filthy-minded person, he becomes pure, by meditating on the Lord God. He saves himself, and the families of both his parents. ॥1॥ (SGGS p858). According to Ram ‘Ji’ howver, this was not the case, he immediately reached the spot where Shambhuk was doing religious practices and without warning cut of his head. A great deed on the part of a God. And as if to justify this deed, many Brahmins say that the prematurely expired son came back to life after this deed of Ram ‘Ji’. Furthermore to give the episode more religious significance it is said that the other Gods hailed this act of Ram ‘Ji’. 5.) Ravan needed no bridge to come to the Indian mainland from Lanka, but Ram Ji needed a bridge to go to him. Furthermore such a vast bridge was completed in only 5 days? Who was more powerful? The bridgeless or the one who needed the bridge? All this in the face of Ram Ji having many flying chariots. It is mentioned in Uttra Khand: “Countless chariots were flying in the sky. Their shadows on earth looked like the multitudes of locusts.” All these chariots belonged to Ram Ji yet he still needed a bridge. 6.) Ravan having more than one head. We believe this is a symbolisation of Ravan’s strength and/or bhagti which has been wrongly misinterpreted. In all this let us conclude as to the imperfections of Ram ‘Ji’ in the terms of Gurmat: 1.) The slaying of innocent Bali. 2.) The mistreatment of Seeta. 3.) The slaying of an innocent Shudra. 4.) Ram ‘Ji’s’ birth. To sum up Ram ‘Ji’ was neither the perfect king or husband. Neither was he virtuous or loving towards all his subjects. He was bound by the mentality of stratification and lead an anti-Gurmat life. Guru-Sahibaan definitely do not mean this Ram when they say: ਬਿਲਾਵਲ੝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਭੂਲੇ ਮਾਰਗ੝ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਬਤਾਇਆ ॥ ਝਸਾ ਗ੝ਰ੝ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ੝ ਚਿਤਾਰੇ ॥ ਬਸਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਗ੝ਰ ਚਰਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਾਮਿ ਕ੝ਰੋਧਿ ਲੋਭਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਨ੝ ਲੀਨਾ ॥ ਬੰਧਨ ਕਾਟਿ ਮ੝ਕਤਿ ਗ੝ਰਿ ਕੀਨਾ ॥੨॥ ਦ੝ਖ ਸ੝ਖ ਕਰਤ ਜਨਮਿ ਫ੝ਨਿ ਮੂਆ ॥ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਗ੝ਰਿ ਆਸ੝ਰਮ੝ ਦੀਆ ॥੩॥ ਅਗਨਿ ਸਾਗਰ ਬੂਡਤ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਾਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਸਤਿਗ੝ਰਿ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੮॥ Bilaaval, Fifth Mehla: He places the one who strays back on the Path; such a Guru is found by great good fortune. ||1|| Meditate, contemplate the Name of the Lord, O mind. The Beloved Feet of the Guru abide within my heart. ||1||Pause|| The mind is engrossed in sexual desire, anger, greed and emotional attachment. Breaking my bonds, the Guru has liberated me. ||2|| Experiencing pain and pleasure, one is born, only to die again. The Lotus Feet of the Guru bring peace and shelter. ||3|| The world is drowning in the ocean of fire. O Nanak, holding me by the arm, the True Guru has saved me. ||4||3||8|| bilaaval mehalaa 5 || bhoolae maarag jinehi bathaaeiaa || aisaa gur vaddabhaagee paaeiaa ||1|| simar manaa raam naam chithaarae || bas rehae hiradhai gur charan piaarae ||1|| rehaao || kaam krodhh lobh mohi man leenaa || ba(n)dhhan kaatt mukath gur keenaa ||2|| dhukh sukh karath janam fun mooaa || charan kamal gur aasram dheeaa ||3|| agan saagar booddath sa(n)saaraa || naanak baah pakar sathigur nisathaaraa ||4||3||8|| Notes: ^ It seems Agni is more superior than Ram ‘Ji.’ * God. According to Gurbani Bhagat Balmik was a worshipper of Akal Purakh. In terms of Gurmat the Ramayan or tale of Ram ‘Ji’ is only a record by him not a scripture. ਬਾਲਮੀਕੁ ਸੁਪਚਾਰੋ ਤਰਿਓ ਬਧਿਕ ਤਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ॥ Baalameek Supachaaro Thariou Badhhik Tharae Bichaarae || बालमीकु सुपचारो तरिओ बधिक तरे बिचारे ॥ Baalmeek the outcaste was saved, and the poor hunter was saved as well. 42735 ਮਾਰੂ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੯੯ ਪੰ. ੫ Raag Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev (Maru Mahala 5, pg. 999). ** From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come. When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all. Guru Nanak, Raag Aasaa Mehal 1, Page 473. Bhai Gurdas pays further tributes to a woman in his vaar: “A woman is the favourite in her parental home loved dearly by her father and mother. In the home of her in-laws, she is the pillar of the family, the guarantee of its good fortune. Sharing in spiritual wisdom and enlightenment and with the noble qualities, with which (the Creator) has endowed her, a woman, the other half of man, escorts him to the door of liberation." (V.16). ***According to various rehatnamas Gurmukh is one who never goes back on his word. Notes: Many Hindus say that Ram is not a God but someone who embodies perfection. A virtuous and noble figure. However Ram’s legend does not hold true to this claim. Sikhs are forbidden from drinking and looking at a women (immorally) other than their own rightful spouse. Ram ‘Ji’ however was the opposite of this. It is said in the Balmik Ramayan, Sarg 125, Shalok 44: “He offered him (Hanuman) villages, 100 cows and 16 beautiful virgins.” Clearly a man who gave women away in this manner would not have stopped at the thought of treating them as sexual objects. In the Rehatnames it has been written: ‘Par nari ki sej, bhul supne hun na jayo' (never enjoy, even in dream, the bed of a woman other than your own wife) (A supplementary ordinance was issued that any one who did not observe any of the four directives, must be re- baptized, pay a fine, and promise not to offend any more; or he must be excommunicated from the Khalsa). Concerning intoxicants: ਸ੝ਆਦ ਲ੝ਭਤ ਇੰਦ੝ਰੀ ਰਸ ਪ੝ਰੇਰਿਓ ਮਦ ਰਸ ਲੈਤ ਬਿਕਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਭਾਗ ਸੰਤਨ ਸੰਗਾਨੇ ਕਾਸਟ ਲੋਹ ਉਧਾਰਿਓ ਰੇ ॥੩॥ Su▫ĝḝ lubẖaṯ inḝrī ras pareri▫o maḝ ras laiṯ bikĝri▫o re. Karam bẖĝg sanṯan sangĝne kĝsat loh uḝẖĝri▫o re. (3) Those who are deluded by sensual pleasures, who are tempted by sexual delights and enjoy wine are corrupt. But those who, through destiny and good karma, join the Society of the Saints, float over the ocean, like iron attached to wood.(3) (SGGS p335). More shabads can be found. An immoral man such as Ram ‘Ji’ cannot be the Ram which the Guru’s taught about. He is clearly a mortal ingrossed in himself. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji fought for religion. He battled the Mughals four times and achieved a stunning victory over them in each battle. Through his battles he expounded the need of weapons for a religion under persecution. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also fought 14 battles in the same spirit against Hindu and muslim fanatics. Ram ‘Ji’ only fought a battle for his own personal slight. Nor did he leave any Granth or teachings as his legacy. Clearly he is not a religious figure. Although it is agreed Balmik composed original Ramayana it is today a matter of debate as to the verses prevalent in the epic. Originally thought to be 24,000, today it consists of 40,000. Hindu extremists have no explanation to this. Many historians believe that Balmik Ji borrowed Ramayana from the Buddhist Dasrath Jatka and changed the storyline. The Buddhist version states that Sita was the sister of Ram 'Ji.' Hence he committed incest by marrying her. Mahatma Gandhi never condemned caste-ism, he only condemned untouchability as a physical act. Ayodhya is described as a city with sky scrapers and infrastructure embedded with gems. Archaeologists are yet to find all this. Ram Chandar is not found in the Vedas. Now I want to do one on how Guru Gobind Singh Ji is not an incarnation of Krishna and how Krishna differs from Gurmat. Can anyone provide me with info that is shabads from Gurbani and Dasam Granth to start me off please?
  21. Hari Singh Randhawa in the above video claims that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj started the udasis Panth and it was not Sri Chand. Today many Sikhs have jumped on this bandwagon and have started saying the same without listening to Katha of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj or reading Gurbani or reading Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaars. First Hari Singh Randhawa says this tuk to back up his theory that Satguru started Udasis: gur bcnI bwhir Gir eyko nwnku BieAw audwsI ]5]11] gur bachanee baahar ghar eaeko naanak bhaeiaa oudhaasee ||5||11|| According to the Word of the Guru's Teachings, what is outside is the same as what is inside the home of the self. Nanak has become a detached renunciate. ||5||11|| http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=3666 So at the beginning of this shabad a person ask Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj if he is a yogi, sant ji says. Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj responds by saying: Raag Maaru--Ang-992 jogI jugiq nwmu inrmwielu qw kY mYlu n rwqI ] jogee jugath naam niramaaeil thaa kai mail n raathee || The Yogi who is joined to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is pure; he is not stained by even a particle of dirt. Then they ask who is a Brahmin from Maharaj a few tuks down and Maharaj responds by saying: bRhmxu bRhm igAwn iesnwnI hir gux pUjy pwqI ] brehaman breham giaan eisanaanee har gun poojae paathee || He alone is a Brahmin, who takes his cleansing bath in the spiritual wisdom of God, and whose leaf-offerings in worship are the Glorious Praises of the Lord. Then at the end Satguru says this to him: gur bcnI bwhir Gir eyko nwnku BieAw audwsI ]5]11] gur bachanee baahar ghar eaeko naanak bhaeiaa oudhaasee ||5||11|| According to the Word of the Guru's Teachings, what is outside is the same as what is inside the home of the self. Nanak has become a detached renunciate. ||5||11|| The above tuk katha starts at 32:15 to the end of the recording. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj here makes it clear that Satguru is talking about a spiritual state and it has nothing to do with starting a sect called udasis or being an udasis as Sri Chand was. Hari Singh Randhawa needs to read the whole shabad before doing arth of this one tuk and presenting the tuk to the sangat as if Satguru is saying i am udasis. Hari Singh Randhawa, also uses the following tuk to back up his claim: bwby ByK bxwieAw audwsI kI rIiq clweI] baabae bhaekh banaaeiaa oudhaasee kee reeth chalaaee|| To further understand the people, Guru Nanak donned robes in their manner and preached them to be detached (from the pleasure and pain). http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5564 From this Vaar of Bhai Gurdas Ji’s i could not find Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj’s katha. It is not on Gurmatveechar.com. But in the same Vaar (1) in pauri 38 Bhai Gurdas Ji tells us that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj takes off the udasi garb. Listening to this katha Sant ji says that Satguru adorned the udasi garb to teach the udasis what it really means to be an udasi. Sant ji gives the example of how Satguru went to Mecca and Satguru adorned the blue garb. Just because Satguru adorned the blue garb of the Muslims doesn’t mean Satguru became a Muslim or started the Muslim religion. Again Hari Singh Randhawa has failed to learn from his teacher (Sant ji and Bhai Gurdas ji) and has distorted Bhai Gurdas Ji’s Vaars to support Udasis. Hari Singh Randhawa is adding his own man made theories here to support what he believes for whatever reason. Vaar 01 Pauri 38 - Baba Aaiya Kartarpur The above Katha starts at 2:25 Katha on Nirmal Panth: Vaar 01 Pauri 45 - Ziaarat Kar Multaan Di Vaar 01 Pauri 45 - Ziaarat Kar Multaan Di - Version 02 Nirmal Panth is first mentioned at 4:50 to 6:00. Here Sant ji refers to Sikhi as the Nirmal Panth which Satguru started and where Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev ji Maharaj was the second Guru of this Nirmal Panth. In the second version of the above Katha Sant ji makes it even more clear that Satguru is refering to the Khalsa Panth, by saying in farsi this Panth is called Khalsa Panth. But if you listen to Hari Singh Randhawa he distorts Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and says Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj started the Nirmal Samprada. This is wrong because the Nirmal Samprada, which Hari Singh is refering to, was started by Bhai Daya Singh ji. Then again Hari Singh to confuse the sangat says in the 10th form Satguru increased this Nirmal Panth. So Hari Singh should be asked why are you distorting Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars? Why not do the correct arth of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars like your teacher Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj does? Hari Singh Randhawa also says the Gurus did puja of Sri Chand. Correct me if im wrong and misheard. This is a huge insult to the Gurus by Hari Singh Randhawa. What is Hari Singh’s evidence for this, what is his source? Surely not Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars or Gurbani because both sources tell us that Sri Chand went against Satguru and the former source tells us that Sri Chand could not find liberation. Does Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars or Gurbani say anywhere that Satguru started udasi or was a udasi? From Sant Ji’s katha, he has made it clear this was not the case at all. Infact Gurbani give us the explanation of what a Udasi and householder is in this Shabad: This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Prabhaatee on Pannaa 1329 pRBwqI mhlw 1 ] prabhaathee mehalaa 1 || Prabhaatee, First Mehla: Awvqu iknY n rwiKAw jwvqu ikau rwiKAw jwie ] aavath kinai n raakhiaa jaavath kio raakhiaa jaae || No one can hold anyone back from coming; how could anyone hold anyone back from going? ijs qy hoAw soeI pru jwxY jW aus hI mwih smwie ]1] jis thae hoaa soee par jaanai jaa(n) ous hee maahi samaae ||1|| He alone thoroughly understands this, from whom all beings come; all are merged and immersed in Him. ||1|| qUhY hY vwhu qyrI rjwie ] thoohai hai vaahu thaeree rajaae || Waaho! - You are Great, and Wondrous is Your Will. jo ikCu krih soeI pru hoiebw Avru n krxw jwie ]1] rhwau ] jo kishh karehi soee par hoeibaa avar n karanaa jaae ||1|| rehaao || Whatever You do, surely comes to pass. Nothing else can happen. ||1||Pause|| jYsy hrht kI mwlw itMf lgq hY iek sKnI hor Pyr BrIAq hY ] jaisae harehatt kee maalaa tti(n)dd lagath hai eik sakhanee hor faer bhareeath hai || The buckets on the chain of the Persian wheel rotate; one empties out to fill another. qYso hI iehu Kylu Ksm kw ijau aus kI vifAweI ]2] thaiso hee eihu khael khasam kaa jio ous kee vaddiaaee ||2|| This is just like the Play of our Lord and Master; such is His Glorious Greatness. ||2|| surqI kY mwrig cil kY aultI ndir pRgwsI ] surathee kai maarag chal kai oulattee nadhar pragaasee || Following the path of intuitive awareness, one turns away from the world, and one's vision is enlightened. min vIcwir dyKu bRhm igAwnI kaunu igrhI kaunu audwsI ]3] man veechaar dhaekh breham giaanee koun girehee koun oudhaasee ||3|| Contemplate this in your mind, and see, O spiritual teacher. Who is the householder, and who is the renunciate? ||3|| ijs kI Awsw iqs hI sauip kY eyhu rihAw inrbwxu ] jis kee aasaa this hee soup kai eaehu rehiaa nirabaan || Hope comes from the Lord; surrendering to Him, we remain in the state of nirvaanaa. ijs qy hoAw soeI kir mwinAw nwnk igrhI audwsI so prvwxu ]4]8] jis thae hoaa soee kar maaniaa naanak girehee oudhaasee so paravaan ||4||8|| We come from Him; surrendering to Him, O Nanak, one is approved as a householder, and a renunciate. ||4||8|| http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4838
  22. I have recently had my understanding of a section of Gurbani changed as a result of listening to the context in Katha. Context makes a big difference. My question is- what is the definite literary source of Tika's and Katha's and contexts behind Gurbani. Unlike other religions, Sikhism doesn't really have churches or monestaries where the sole purpose of people is to become experts and pass on this priestly knowledge from one to another; Granthis and jathedars are not pandits, archbishops or monks (who have to undertake years of religious study and training). Is it purely based on third-party (Not by Gurus) writings and scholarly research that people have done mostly after the Gurus time? If so how can one be certain of the stories they tell about contexts or rely on the conclusions they have reached? If it is based on word of mouth, what would happen after thousands of years, as has happend with Christianity where there are different stories in different Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc, some differing greatly).
  23. I think this agniveer website is against Sikhs, Can anyone please provide me with the real translations of these shabads, I think they are deliberately misinterpreting them: 1. God created Vedas (Onkaar ved nirmaye- Rag Ramkali Mahla 1 Onkar Shabd 1) 2. With order of God Vedas were created so that humans can decide what is virtue and sin (Hari aagya hoye Ved paap punya vichaariya- Maru Dakhne Mahla 5 Shabd 17) 3. No one can value the importance of Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda (Sam Ved, Rig, Yajur, Atharvan brahme mukh maaiya hai traigun, taakee keemat kah na sakai ko….- Marusolahe Mahla 1 Shabd 17) 4. God created day, night, forests, greenery, water and 4 Vedas that are like 4 treasures (Chaar Ved chaare khaani- Rag Maru Mahla 5 Shabd 17) 5. How can glory of Vedas be stated whose knowledge is without end (Ved vakhaan kahahi ik kahiye, oh ve ant ant kin lahiye- Vasant Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.3) 6. Of the infinite texts, Vedas are the best (Asankh granth mukhi Ved paath- Japuji 17) 7. All the Shastras, Vedas and ancient texts describe the Supreme Lord (Smriti sastra Ved puraan paar brahm ka karahi vakhiyaan- Gaund Mahla 5 Shabd 17) 8. Noble persons elucidate the glory of Vedas but unfortunate people do not understand (Ved bakhiyaan karat saadhujan bhaagheen samjhat nahi khalu- Todi Mahla 5 Shabd 26) 9. Study of Vedas enhances knowledge by blessings of God (Kahant Veda gunant guniya…- Sahaskriti Mahla 5.14) 10. Analysis of Vedas, Shastras and ancient texts enriches the entire family and makes them lucky (Ved puran saasatr vichaaram…. badbhaagi Naanak ko taaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20) 11. Vedas describe the glory of one God (Kal mein ek naam kripaanidhi … ih vidhi Ved bataavai- Rag Sortha Mahla 9 Shabd 5) 12. Do not say that Vedas are false. False are those people who do not analyze (Ved katev kahahu mat jhoothe jhootha jo na vichaare- Rag Prabhati Kabirji Shabd 3) 13. Those who studied Vedas were called Vedis. They initiated noble virtuous acts. Listening to Rigveda, Samveda, Yajurveda and Atharveda destroyed all sins. (Jinai Ved padhyo suvedi kahaaye… Padhe Sam Vedam Yajur Ved Kattham Rigam Ved paathayam kare bhaav hattham… Atharav Ved pathayam suniyo paap nathiyam…- Dasham Guru Granth Sahib Vichitra Natak Adhyaya 4) To check more examples of glory of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib refer the following: 14. Chauth upaaye chaare Veda- Rag Bilawal Mahla 1 Thiti 15. Chache chaar Ved jin saaje chaare khani chaar juga- Rag Asa Mahla 1 Pati Likhi Shabd 9 16. Oordh mool jis saakh talaaha chaar Ved jit laage- Gujri Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.1 17. Chare Ved hoye sachiyaar- Asadi // Mahla 1 // 13 18. Chaturved mukh vachni uchre- Rag Gaudi Mahla 5 Shabd 164 19. Chaturved pooran hari naai Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 17 20. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maane Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 12 21. Chaar Ved jihwa bhane- Rag Sarang Mahla 5 Shabd 131 22. Brahme ditte Ved Rag Malar // Mahla 2 // 3 23. Chaare Ved Brahme kau diye padh padh kare vichari- Rag Asa Mahla 3 Shabd 22 24. Chaare Ved Brahme np furmaayia- Maaru Solahe 3.22 25. Chaare deeve chahu hath diye eka eki vaari- Vasant Hindol 1.1 26. Vedu pukaare vaachiye vaani brahm biaas- Shreeraag Ashtpadiyan 1.7 27. Vedan ganh bole sach koi- Maajh Vaar Mahla 1 Vaar 12 28. Deeva jale andhera jaai Ved paath mati paapan khaai- Raag Suhi 29. Ved pukaarai punn paap surag narak ka veeu- Raag Saarang Vaar 1.16 30. Gurumukhi parche Ved vichari- Raag Ramkali Sidh Gosht Shabd 28 31. Puchhahu Ved pandatiyaan muthi vin maane- Rag Maaru Ashtpadiyan 1.6 32. Man hath kine na paaiyo puchhahu Vedaam jaai- Shri Raag Vaar 3.10 33. Smriti saasat Ved vakhaanai bharmai bhoola tat na jaanai- Rag Maajh Ashtpadiyan 3.18 34. Veda mahi naam uttam so- Rag Ramkali Mahla 3 Aanand 19 35. Hari jeeu ahankaar n bhaavai Ved kook sunaavahi- Rag Maaru 3.9 36. Jugi jugi aapo aapna dharm hai sodh dekhahu Ved puraan- Rag Vilaaval 3.4 37. Saasat Ved puraan pukaarahi dharam karahu shat karam dradaiya- Vilaaval Mahla 4.2 38. Naanak vichaarahi sant jan chaar Ved kahande- Rag Gaudi Vaar 4.12 39. Vaani brahm Ved dharam dradahu paap tajaaiya bal raam jeeu- Suhi Chhant 4.2 40. Das ath chaar Ved sabh poochhahu jan naanak naam chhudaai jeeu- Maaru 4.8 41. Smrat saasat Ved vakhaane jog gyaansidh sukh jaane- Rag Gaudi 5.111 42. Ved puraan smrat bhane- Gaudi 5.144 43. Saasat smrat Ved vichaare mahaapurushan iu kahiya- Rag Gaudi 5.162 44. Ved saasat jan pukaarahi sunai nahi dora- Rag Aasa 5.152 45. Saasat Ved smriti sabhi….- Gujri 5.2 46. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maanahi- Ramkali 5.12 47. Kahant Veda gunant guniya- Salok sahaskriti Mahla 5.14 48. Ved puraan saasatr vichaaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20 49. Ved puraan saadh sang- Rag Gaudi 9.6 50. Ved puraan padhai ko ih gun simre hari ko naama- Rag Gaudi 9.7 51. Ved puraan jaas gun gaavat taako naam hiye mein dhar re- Gaudi 9.9 52. Ved puraan smriti ke mat sun nimash na hiye vasaavai- Rag Sorath 9.7
  24. Sangat Jee, I have been looking through some apps on my android tablet and phone etc which you can search Gurbani which claims to have indexed sources such as Amrit Keertan pothi on it etc. However I have come across a particular shabad which has put some doubts on the internets authenticity. I'm going to use 1 particular shabad as an example and also understand it could just be an exceptional anomaly. The shabad is : Har Sachae Takth Rachhaeaa Sath Sangat Melaa I have an Amrit Keertan pothi from around 40 years ago and this pothi itself has been used by Puraatan Gursikhs. Now line 3 and 6 in the Pothi are as follows : 3 : Gur Simar Manaee Kalkaa Khandae Kee Velaa 6 : Gur Sangat Kenee Khalsaa Manumukhee Duhelaa however on other internet sources and the Amrit Keertan android app also searchgurbani.com it is different and possibly incorrect (I say this because this shabad is from Bhai Gurdas Jee's vaaran and could potentially have 2 different versions) 3: Gur Daas Manaee Kalkaa Khandae Kee Velaa 6 : Sangat Kenee Khalsaa Manumukhee Duhelaa Is there any learned Gursikh here who can clear my doubt and whether I should scrap using these apps etc and just stick to the Gutka Sahib? I use it for Keertan purposes and don't want to be reading the wrong shabad.