chatanga

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Everything posted by chatanga

  1. Baba Ram Singh was credited with the first non co-operation movement against the British. I dont think it could be described a quit india movement. That slogan came in the 1920s-30s.
  2. Why would badal give Ram Singh recognition as head of the taksal if he had planted Harnam Singh as the head?
  3. "Singh?" No Sikh of the Guru calls darshan rogi by that name. You pretend that you don't support him, when its very apparent that you do. If you knew a little more about bullets hitting bodies then you would know that that the momentum of the bullet would take the object with it, instead of travelling towards the shooter. If you knew even more about shootings you would know that not all shots have exit wounds, and not all exit wounds are bigger than the entry wounds. Nice try though. However as the photo that we have seen only shows one wound, it is not been said whether this is the entrance or exit. And with shotguns the entry can easily be as big as the exit, if not bigger as the bullet fragments as its being shot (expereince in watching people being killed by shotguns.) Do you want a link to some Jkaur? (to add to your experience?)
  4. And everyone can be better than "Professor Sarnjit Singh "Khalsa/dhapali" who tried to make his Guru out to be some kind of pervert.
  5. Fair enough this photo makes him gimli. But thats a small price to pay if some turaiya avastha Sikhs want to call him gimli, for me. This is one of those results. This would not have been possible without "gimli", but i would rather have "gimli" and other taksalis doing katha than dhunda and jachak.
  6. 5. Helping get rid of Delhi's Malechh committee of Sarna and co, and restarting katha there including katha of Sri Dasme Granth Sahib. The above accomplishments are a great acheivement if you were to consider what the situation would be like had this not been done. All these things were in place when Sant Jarnail Singh and Baba Thakur Singh were alive. While more Sikhs were religious definitely it is wrong to put these regressions at Baba Harnam Singh personal responsibility. The original plan was to support Badal which meant that Badal had to commit 40 SGPC seats to Sant Samaj. These 40 Sant Samaj nominees won their seats but the congress party took the elections to court where there was a stay of power so the previous SGPC continued as was. The case took 6 years to reach a verdict. If these Sikhs had been able to take their place in SGPC there would most likely have been a great change. I agree with you here. Baba Harnam Singh could have and should have done more to move badals hand against the ravan sena. However the problem here was that Badal did not want to pursue these cases himself as it would have made more people aware of the crimes of the ravan sena. With Kaunke's case, I beleive it was given to the CBI of india to investigate. Not sure, but Harnam Singh should definitely have kept this issue alive. It is unfair to blame Harnam Singh for these. He had a plan to chnage the SGPC but it was foiled. PLus this was always there when Sant jarnail Singh was there, but no-one blamed him for corruption even though at times he was close to Akali Dal leadership because of the morcha. The Sant Samaj originally came together for the SGPC elections which unfotunately they were unable to see through to the end. After this various leaders as such who really had no desire to involve themsleves in any politics left. Those warm relations were there for a purpose. As i have said many times here, in the life and death struggles of the Dal Panth, even they made political/military alliances with the moghals. I wouldn't criticize those Sikhs because they beleived they were acting in the interests of the Panth by siding with an enemy that had committed pogroms against them many times and killed thousands and thousands of Sikhs.
  7. dhadrianwala has become a missionary mouthpeice. he is not doing any gurmat parchar. Watch this video and see how he is aping his missionary lovers. No-one is what they were pre 84. Even the average Sikh in the pend isn't the same.
  8. Bhai Jasvir Singh had the misfortune of being Sant jarnail Singh nephew so everyone assumed he would be just like Sant Ji. Bhai Jasvir Singh is not a bad guy in this at all. His father Jagir Singh elder brother of Sant Ji, became shaheed in bluestar. Bhai Jasvir Singh still does a lot of sewa for the prisoners and families still affected by the Khalistan movement. He has for years before SOPW been heling Sikhs in jail, and helping fight criminal cases against them by the ravan hakumat. This is only what i heard in a Zaffarwal interview. The ISI's involvement wouldnt really be known by the average man on the street as they are a highly secretive, extremely powerful intelligence agency. the only thigns that we would know about them is what the ISI operatives would reveal or the what people who dealt with them would reveal. Fiefdom - area under his own personal control treated as his personal "state". Another one of Bittus biggest blunders and one I find it hard to forgive him for, is the murder of Harminder Singh Sandhu. That was truly a terrible act and one that damaged the movement so much. Election boycott and Harminder Singhs murder were his two biggest mistakes. Terrible mistakes for which the Panth has paid an extremely high price. Yes sorry I meant Valtoha. Dr Gurnam Singh Bundela was a top guy. Thats the funny thing. It wasn't just Manjit Singh, it was also Harminder Singh Chawla and Rajinder Singh Mehta as well who went to badal dal very easily. Although these latter two work more in the SGPC nowadays. They are still panthic minded though. I guess like a lot of them they saw the current phase of the movement was dying and tried to fit in with society as best as they could. Santokh Kala was a Khalistani who turned after the police captured him. He was offered a free role in capturing or killing other Khalistanis. He did kill a few but was killed by Sikhs quite quickly.
  9. For starting his own panth? Distorting the treasured practices of the Sikhs for centuries, and being ex communicated is fair? I bet you were unhappy when that excommunication took place. It must have felt so unfair to you. Your argument, like those arguments in which you say dhapali is an amazing guy, has no basis. Harnam Singh has not forgiven sirsa in any capacity and he has not taken any life, innocent or not. On the other hand dhadrianwala goaded others into a rally where he then fled in a police car to safety whislt the police opened fire on the crowd, That is the main uproar. It is intersting how you defend the missionaries who insulted the Gurus over and over. Your real motive is clear. You never opposed the missionaries insulting the Gurus as much as you opposed Baba Harnam Singh. Absolutely. tell dhadhrianwala that his activities have already killed 2 Sikhs. We can prevent this. He has only done it half-heartedly. Inside he is still a big supporter of darshan rogi. Its not like he said it of his own accord. This "acceptance" had to be dragged out of him. He's as cunning as the missionary rats he loves. Of all the things the missionaries have said about the Gurus, not once have you opposed them. You stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of "Professor" Sarbjit singh "Khalsa" and dhapali when they tried to distort Guru Sahib's history and claim he was a pervert. Where do you missionaries learn such gand? And why are you happy as a donkey rolling round in it? You follow no-one apart from Sri Guru Granth Sahib? You have "Singh" in your name don't you? Where in Guru Granth Sahib does it tell you to keep the name "Singh" as part of your name?
  10. I'm talking about those who talk the walk but soil themselves when it comes to the walk. Or the run actually. There was definitely running to the police car. Bhai Jasvir Singh Rode has been discussed many times here. Zafarwal knew a long time before the others that the movement was failing badly. The reason was the ISI were using the armed movement for their own goals. Zafarwal refused to target Hindus under ISI orders which is why they stopped arms sales to his group. Yes - arms sales - arms that they gave free to the Kashmiris were sold to the Sikhs. Bittu is a clever guy, very talented but he dropped a clanger over the 1992 elections. This was the main reason for congress govt coming in and destroying Khalistan movement. Sivia - a UK national was arrested by ravan sena aka Panjab police. Shortly after his arrest major BK men were arrested or killed. He has denied given the police any info. Bhai Baljit Singh wrote several books on the sangrash one of which was called "ik khooni dahaka" "A bloody decade". I read it a long time ago. Try reading that for more info. Manochahal was accused of making his own fiefdom in Tarntaran by the other leaders. But he was politically aware and was fully supporting Maan Akali Dal in 1992 elections before other kharkhoo groups enforced a boycott on the participation in elections. I remember talking about this boycott to a UK MP. He told me that boycotting elections was grave mistake. Vadala was one of the main AISSF guys. I dont know whether other know this, but not all AISSF people supported Khalistan as a separate country. Vadala was one of those, but he was very much involved upto around late 1980s I think. gandhi dismissed the deal on longoawal death. it was so convenient for him. Yes Bhai Manjit Singh sided with badal Dal and has achieved nothing of not for the Panth. Harnam Singh sided with Badal and has achieved many things. People forget very quickly. But the worst in my opinion was Harminder Singh Gill (another AISSF main guy who didnt beleive in Khalistan) who went over to the Congress party on the offer of a ticket for election. he survived 1984 and spent time in jail as well. Yet he went to the congress party in order to further his political career.
  11. Why arent they responsible? If Harnam Singh is responsible for something he had no aware or control over then why is dhadrian wala responsible for something that he was aware about and had conttol over? Sikh history is not stories. It's our life-blood. You have no problem with dhapali and "Professor" Sarnjit Singh "Khalsa" making Guru Sahib out to be some kind of pervert. That's because you beleive its true. To you the value of dhapalis word is greater than Guru Sahibs. Hasn't dhadrianwala been bleating about catching some "mastermind"? What mastermind? Facts are: dhadrianwala always sat in the front seat of his blinging audi quattro a4. but on that day for some reason he didn't. Bhupinder Singh was shot in the back of his head. It would be very unlikey that a person shooting from the side would hit him in the back of the head. dhadrianwala soiled his clothes. But the fatal shot still came from behind. Does he? He was on record as saying that he always sits in the front but he himself asked Bhupinder Singh to sit in the front on this journey. You're kidding me!! Someone who has no shame in insulting their guru and listening and sharing insult of their guru can only be a darshan rogi fan. I see that you call him darshan "singh". it's very clear that you are a chela of rogi. But you beleive all their lies. So that would make you a missionary supporter. Not once have you spoken against their insults of Guru Sahibs but yet refer to those insulters as great intellectuals. You are studying there. By listening to their lies and sharing them further, not only are you studying there, but you are actively working for them. Yes, you should follow maharaj rather than the likes of dhapali or "Professor" Sarjbit singh "Khalsa". Bhindranwale is not our Guru. In Guru Granth Sahib there is a line saying : "Gur ki ninda sune na kaan." Not only are you listening to it, you are also sharing it for others to listen to . Thanks for proiving to the forum that dhapali is more precious to you than Guru Sahib himslef. IIf you had understood the video you would have see that dhapali was trying to distort a story in order to make Guru Sahib out to look like a pervert. The true story shows Guru Sahib in his true light. worship dhapali if you want. You worship darshan rogi who has changed maryada and started his own darshan panth. Your replies don't help me. I've enough experience of dealing with missionaries that it doesn't take too long to see their true colours. Your replies helps those who don't know enough about the missionaries to see what you people are really like. That's useful.
  12. Dhanna Singh was in hiding for a while as were the original Panthik Committee. They all made their own ways after historic Sarbat Khalsa. Like many people I though that Dhanna Singh had become shaheed but then he surfaced in USA some time after. Don't know anything a bout his activities after he got there. This was just indian govt propoganda. They made up stories that Hindus were being victimized in Panjab by Sikhs. The conveniently forget that many Sikhs were killed by Hindus and may gurdwaras burnt by Hindus during the Panjabi Suba morcha. They conveniently foget that Taksal paid for a mandir to be built in a Panjab prison. Sant Ji wanted Sikhs to have their territorial, religious and human rights. He gave his life for it. The only Sikhs that can have equal rights are those who beleive in Sikhi. Those who beleieve in missionary nonsense and darshan rogi, giving them any kind of "equal rights as sikhs" would destroy sikhi. Sant Ji gave his life to keep Sikhi alive. These missionaries are trying their best to destroy Sikhi. You dont respect Sant Jarnial Singh. If you did you would never mention them in the same breath as cretins like dhunda and dhapali. How can disrespecting your Guru be approved by Sant Jarnail Singh? Only lionhearts can do that. The others run to the nearest police car. At the time this social reform was announced there was opposition to it from many quarters. Two other things to be added to this list are only "11 members of a baraat, and no jeans for females at colleges/universities." Many at the time saw this as a deflection away from the true poltic goal of the Sikhs and a chance to embroil them in other matters taking the focus and energy away from the issues that mattered most. Families of police began to be targeted only after ravan sena started to kill relatives of Sikhs mainly under gills rule. It was more of a reaction than action. You dont half me me laugh. No, the mess that we are in todays stems from the loss of the Lahore Darbar, Since 1849, the Sikhs have been sliding downhill and seem to keep on slliding.
  13. Yes he is. He was the one who called all the Sikhs to gather to protest. Then when the going got tough he ran to the nearest police car to save his own life. Lying? You mean like someone who says he never defends "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" but does it all the time? The same somone who makes up stuff about Baba Harnam Singh continously but cannot give one piece of evidence to back it up? Sant Jarnail Singh stood by his word to defend Sri Darbar Sahib. Never moved from his bachan once. Yet the same dhadrianwala got all the other Sikhs worked up about about the beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and then ran to the nearest police car at the first sign of action. You can tell us whether on this occasion he also soiled his kashera. Why is it not comparable? You are hurt at the fact that some taksalis are alleged to have fired the shot that killed Bhupinder Singh. Yet you are not concerned at the fact that dhadrianwala was also responsible for getting 2 Sikhs shot dead by police. Yes because dhadrianwala only tells the truth doesn't he. His stories change every year. Why was it that he ALWAYS sat in the front seat of that gleaming Audi 4X4 but on this occasion when he had never done so befor etold Bhupinder Singh to sit there. It seems very suspicious that the only time dhadrianwala took a back seat the guy in front got shot from someone sitting behind him. It looks very much like dhadroianwala had the whole murder of Bhupinder Singh planned with the intention of taking the criticism off himself for being responsible for the deaths of 2 Sikhs. It seems very plausible that dhadrianwala has kept the whole thing constant to try and drag someone else down with him. You prefer missionaries because they tell lies. Birds of a feather. What sharda do the missionaries have on Maharaj when they have sided with "Professor" darshan rogi in starting his in own panth. its so amusing to see missionaries talk of sharda. i' sure you'll survive and then come out with something else to lie about. Here is a video about your hero dhapali. I would suggest you learn from this. If that's possible.
  14. What sikh brothers has Harnam Singh ordered to be killed? Doing a/3 diwan(s) is not exercise for someone. For an orator its an easy job. God help me? How many more lies are you going to post here? Whilst we are on the subject lets talk about darshan rogi and his form of "amrit". Which missionary has opposed this rogi ? "Professor" Sarbjit singh "Khalsa"? dhapali?
  15. Yes anyone who says what they have about the Gurus are bad in my books. You haven't opposed the missionaries once. All the things I'v listed you haven't once said that's wrong. Instead you big them up. What do you want me to oppose Baba Harnam Singh over? He had no part in the killing of Bhupinder Singh. There is no evidence that the fatal shot came from the guys who stopped the car. Rather the evidence shows that the shot came from behind Bhupinder Singh and hit him in the back of the head. dhadrianwala has used this to keep up his feud with Harnam Singh and divert the attention from himself and his missionary pal panthpreet singh "Khalsa" because of their running away from the morcha that they called themselves and urged people to go to. They urged people to go and protest and then got into police cars and let the police fire at the protestors. 2 Sikhs were killed. Where they any less tha Bhuopinder Singh because they weren't n dhadrianwala jatha? Why should dhadrianwala get away with that? Didn't these 2 sikh brothers have families? Why didn't dhapali also mention them? No i wasnt in Taksal with Sant Sunder Singh Ji, but we know because Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji wrote his Gurmat Parkash Darpan based on the teachings and practices of the Taksal after studying under Sant Sunder Singh. Say it as many times as you like. Unless you provide specific examples there is no manmat to speak of. Let's add to this summary. Lets assume that Harnam Singh is guilty for this momentarily. Harnam Singh is responsible for the death of one Sikh person. dhadrianwala is responsible for the deaths of two. So dhadhrianwala is responsible for double the amount of Sikh lives lost than Harnam Singh. So let's keep this in perspective. Let's deal with dhadrianwale first and then we can deal with Harnam Singh. Well that's just it. You don't beleive it do you. You doubt Dasam Granth. But "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" has insulted Guru Gobind Singh by trying to distort a sakhi from Guru Sahibs childhood. To you "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" is a hero. You have supported him and other missionaries here nonstop. Please stop lying to us. Thanks. Although I'm certain in our case you are in more need of help. Help to tell the truth for start.
  16. What about the video you presented of Baba Harnam Singh talking about Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. The text itself says this is a translation taken from a particular part of a Puran. Baba Harnam Singh, as anyone who has read Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib knows that this is fact, yet you presented that video which was circulated by the missionaries to try and perpetuate a lie that Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth is nothing but a complete re-writing of Hindu texts. The only result of missionaries and their supporters sharing sharing that video is to show how shallow their intelligence is. You repeat this many times but yet have not given one fact of where taksal have done anything different from the times of Sant Sunder Singh or what they are doing that opposes gurmat. How do yo know? Where has Maharja given this in writing? What Hindu stories? Again this is another often repeated line/ Exactly what stories are you talking about? Do you agree to any of the Hindu stories mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib?
  17. If you have any proof of Harnam Singh doing so then bring it. Its more lies, First you said Taksal do rituals. But no proof. then You say Harnam Singh paid to have someone killed. No proof provided. Then you say Harnam Singh changed things at taksal. Still no proof. Now you moving onto sarsa wala, and hey presto! No proof again. True missionary supporter. Lies lies and nothing else.
  18. As I said Harnam Singh has not forgiven him. He doesn't have any kind of authority to do that. Which line of gurmat are you with? The one that says Bhai Lehna took gurgaddi of Giuru Nanak by force? The same one you couldnt bring yourself to oppose ?
  19. Why shouldnt I call a liar a liar? You are a liar. You have posted lies on this forum.
  20. Proud to be Khalsa? How ? By siding with those who insulted your Guru ? Some kind of Khalsa that is.
  21. Why did I need to ask several times, then? As "we" do? So you are a missionary then. I dont know why you dont have enough faith in your missionary professors to keep denying it. You obviously havent got enough faith in the Gurus. You don't openly support it. First of all you said you hadn't heard much of "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa's" parchaar, now you saying you openly support it.
  22. Using Sant on name willingly is a crime? Professor Sarbjit Singh Khalsa uses "Professor" and "Khalsa" on his name willingly. Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa uses "Bhai" and "Khalsa" on his name willingly. Harnam Singh has not killed anyone. "He talks rudely"? Like dhadrianwale then? what gurmat parchar was dhadrian wala doing when he was calling Harnam Singh baggar billa? No kirtan classes have been stopped anywhere. Stop lying. Try and be a Sikh. Of the Guru that is, not your lying missionary professors with "Khalsa" added to their name.
  23. Yes, the same Gyani Gurpreet Singh who's presence by itslef scares the missionaries.
  24. Yes but it had to be dragged out of you. You never volunteered it and only said it when others talked of getting you banned. Another lie from the missionaries. Come on where the details of changes made to taksal by Baba Harnam Singh?
  25. Learning about Gurmat, Guru granth Sahib, Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth etc doing katha is not an easy job. It is a very hard job to learn about Gurmat before talking about it to an audience. The gurmat gian missionary college do a 2 year course before letting our their people to do parchaar. 2 YEARS! But the Taksals will take you through around 8 texts on spirituality and such before they even teach you about Guru Granth Sahib. Every Taksali has to go through 5 years of reading Guru Granth Sahib and studying katha before they are allowed to sit at an Akhand Paath. Their training to become parcharaks is even longer. To become a parcharak from a taksal takes about a decade. Compare that with a 2 year course where these missionaries learn "25 shabads". I would rather listen to someone from the Taksals or other samprdais where immense study and tests go on rather than someone who has learned 25 shabads from Guru Granth Sahib over 2 years and has won the appelation of "Gyani". Why don't these missionaries ever come before taksalis? Because they know they cannot match the Taksal in terms of Gyan. Why did BHai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa run from Gyani Gurpreet Singh California in Italy and Germany? Which did the great missionary leader harnek singh neki lock the gates of the gurdwara he owns so he didnt have to debate Gyani Gurpreet Singh? It's very shocking. It's very bad. It makes me angry just to listen or see what they have written. these are the only ones I can remember at the moment. Jonny101 knows more than me about their false teachings. Hopefully he is still on this forum.