Sher Khalsa

WOW. I just saw this thread. Firstly, I believe in Dasam Granth and am 100% against Prof. Darshan Singh and Kala Afghana and their views. Also, I have respect for the AKJ Singh's that I know. I have not been on the AKJ forums in years and can not comment on what has been posted there. But, those who are attacking Bhai Harpreet Singh, you don't know him, don't know his way of life - don't know anything about him. Do yourself a favour and stop the attacks before you bankrupt yourself with the huge karmic debt you will never be able to repay.

This had nothing to do with pro or anti Dasam Granth

How is that relevant? If it is relevant please paste the relevant section of the Criminal Code so we can look at it. Also, the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute and, as such, applies equally to all provinces. It applies equally to all, then are all the rules the same, across the provinces? You can't see the connection between anybody is able to carry a knife with a 3 to 4 inch blade and Sikhs carrying Kirpans as freedom of religion? If Sikhs are not allowed to carry a kirpan then it becomes an infringment on their rights as Canadians. It seems like you want to prove me wrong so pull up the criminal code and tell everyone which section speaks on knife carrying. And if there is not a section like this that exist, then just say it doesn't exist. Here is the whole code http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.html here you go sir, http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.30.html If the link does not open up then please go to section 30 of the criminal code of Canada. Darshan laal has been recongized as an excommunicated person from the Khalsa Panth, ruling given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahb ji. Every Sikh or person that calls himself a Sikh or is a member of a Gurdwara or any other Sikh organization must obey the order given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji (not to associate or let him(Darshan Laal0 speak at a Sikh function). This ruling applies to everyone. Since Darshan Laal knew his presence and giving a sermon will cause problems(we saw violence break out in UK and will violate his conditions) and he is going against the Supreme Authority(Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji) and he was well aware of what will take place (the peace will be disturbed) then in my opinion his actions were intentional and deliberate. Which means a judge can give a ruling where Darshan Laal is not allowed to speak at any Sikh function, until the Supreme Authority of Sikhism gives him the right too. Otherwise Darshan laal will try to speak again at a Gurdwara and cause problems in Canada again. It is not my intent to prove you wrong, but to have a well thought out discussion without jumping to conclusions. In regards to Canadians having the right to carry a knife that is 3-4 inches in length, I haven't looked at the Criminal Code to find that Section but assuming that it does exist, I would comment as follows: 1) The Courts have recognized that the Kirpan is an "ARTICLE OF FAITH", if it was to be defined as a knife, we would be in trouble. I strongly recommend that no one refer to it as a knife or a weapon - it is an ARTICLE OF OUR FAITH that we are required to have on our person at all times. Also, most people should have a kirpan between 6 and 12 inches in length, that would not fit in the 3-4 inch exemption for knives that you referred to. That being said, a kirpan is not a knife and should not be defined as one. 2) There is case law around the kirpan and we need to be careful on how we represent our faith and articles of faith to the general public. Relying on a provision in the criminal code around knives will do no good but will have a lot of negative repercussions. In regards to Section 30 of the Criminal Code, I can assure you that it does not apply to this situation and Darshan nor anyone affiliated with Sikh Lehar Centre will be charged for what happened at the protest. This is what it comes down to in my mind. 1) Sikh Lehar Centre was established to cause trouble and preach Kala Afghana/Darshan propoganda 2) Darshan is not to speak at any Gurdwara as per Akal Takht 3) Sikh Lehar Centre has allowed Darshan to speak despite Akal Takht ruling 4) Singhs have been upset with Sikh Lehar Centre since it opened and with its members and supporters 5) Singhs heard Darshan was to speak on Friday at Sikh Lehar, they gathered at Glidden Gurdwara to organize a protest to stop Darsahn from speaking 6) An hour before going to Sikh Lehar from Glidden Gurdwara Singhs received notice that Darshan was not going to speak and that the program was cancelled 7) Protestors decided that since they will still go to Sikh Lehar Centre, out of the large group of protestors a small groups sole purpose was to fight and they were heard saying things like "get ready to give your head" 8) Protestors arrived and tried to enter the Sikh Lehar Centre and were denied entry and were told that the program by Darshan was cancelled (people may say denying access to a gurdwara is means for violence BUT Malton Gurdwara, Dixie Gurdwara, Rexdale Gurdwara have all denied access to different people at different times and are all a 10 minute drive from Sikh Lehar Centre - so it does not make sense for anyone to take a stand only here and not at the others - that is hypocrisy) 9) Mangat was pulled grabbed by 1 angry protestor and then another prominent protestor yelled "Fardo" and Mangat was then rushed by a group of people, at that time his face was stomped, his hair was pulled, he was punched in the face and stabbed 3 times. 10) After the protest certain members of the protest went online and boasted about their accomplishments 11) The issue blew up in the media At the end of the day, based on the above facts which have been verified by protestors who were there to support those who were against Darshan and to speak in support of Dasam Bani , and were disgusted by what they saw, what happened was not justified. The whole purpose of the protest was to stop Darshan from speaking - he was not even at the program - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Whatever happened after that was out of hate and ego - not based on Sikh principles. In 84' mobs of hindus attacked Sikhs in Delhi - in mobs - it is easy to attack people in a mob - that is not bravery - any coward can do that. It's sad that the protestors acted as a mob and even worse used a Kirpan on a unarmed man who was not even fighting. A kirpan should never be used - as you can see from what has resulted from this incident. If the protestors had kept their calm, thought about the big picture, and stopped once they achieved their goal - they would have full support of Toronto Sangat. From those who know the facts, it as almost unanimous that Darshan Ragi is an evil person and Sikh Lehar Centre is up to no good, but that the attack should never have happened and was not justified based on the facts and based on Sikh principles. Its not a question of whether you are against or support Darshan its a question about what happened at the protest and whether is what justified or not.

How is that relevant? If it is relevant please paste the relevant section of the Criminal Code so we can look at it. Also, the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute and, as such, applies equally to all provinces. Please post the relevant section of the Criminal Code under which Sikh Lehar Centre/Members or Darshan Laal can be charged and explain. I don't think you are correct. I don't agree with their views and believe Darshan is a GOI agent that is purposely causing trouble to turn public opinion against us and to split the community. Sadly, because the protestors got out smarted and outmanouvered and lost their cool - Darshan is winning at this game.

Upon what basis have you stated that the majority of Sikhs worldwide do not support Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale? I have not watched "A Sikh Story", please set out the points that it made which lead you to beleive that it exposed Sant Ji - so that they can be addressed point by point based on facts.

GPS. Just because you talk more and post more doesn't make your view more right. I've been reading these threads and anyone who posts a different view than yours - you label them a kala afghana supporter or a darshan ragi supporter. From what you have posted you are not properly informed about the events that led up to and transpired at and after the protest. At the end of the day, the truth can be hidden, distorted and misrepresented - but the truth still remains the truth. What happened that day is what happened no matter how you massage it.

You should get your facts straight. The gurdwara was not goign to be turned into a funeral home. In fact, 19% of the building would have been used to store dead bodies and the other 81% would have remained a gurdwara. Never in our history, has a funeral home and a gurdwara been in the same building. In fact - guru sahib doesnt give any importance to dead bodies. Also, they wanted to raise a black nishan sahib at the gurdwara with 19% space zoned for dead bodies - which also has no basis. Anyways, some of the sangat that is now helping operate Old Rexdale, even offered those that wanted to convert 19% of it into a funeral home land in brampton for free to build a funeral home, or offered to build it themselves at their own cost at a different site - aslong as a gurdwara and funeral home were not mixed... those that wanted to turn it into a funeral home refused. Peoples intentions become clear once you learn the facts. The intentions of the funeral home crowd was to promote themselves with no regard to Gurusahib's satkaar. If they wanted a funeral home so bad, they could have had one free of cost at another site, but they only wanted a funeral home inside a gurdwara. If you don't believe what I have said, please check with the City of Toronto and check the zoning and the Ontario Municipal Board's decision on the matter - where only 19% of the buildign was to be a funeral home and the other 81% had to stay a gurdwara and guru sahib was going to remain parkash.

The Muslims are the ones doing the genocide

I think its a practice that should be discouraged.

I dont think anyone here actually celebrates Christmas - in the christian way. Seems like most people enjoy the holidays, put up a tree , etc. I am almost positive that no one hear drinks 'jesus's blood' or goes to 'mass'. ---- It comes down to whether you think a Sikh can enjoy 'non-sikh' holidays. That is up for debate, will it effect you spiritually or not, thats a choice that has to be made on an individual level. I know personally I love the christmas holidays, the days off are great. --- Also I'd be careful to proclaim anyone a Sant, including Jesus Christ. We have know way of knowing whether Jesus was a Sant or not. --- end of the day, none of this is relevant. At the end its a relationship between you and Guru Sahib. And yes it is a sacrifice, a sacrifice of LOVE --- and that love is what drives rehit, not the other way around. You can follow every possible rehit out there, but until you have that love from within, until you realize god within, until you start nurturing your soul (simran, bani), - everything you will have done will be useless. Look at these other religions they think if they follow a certain rehit, they will get to heaven, if they dont they will go to hell. Guru Sahib said its all about remembrance of god, love for god 24/7, and I believe from that will flow REHIT.... and without the first part - the rest is useless -- now how Christmas effects your relationship with god, is personal to you, and only you. whoever comes on and makes rules that a sikh can celebrate this, and cant celebrate that... is in a dangerous cycle and missing the point

tell me what i said that ticked you off? did i make fun of christianity? no! did i say christians are wrong? no! did i say Jesus was wrong? no! did i say that only Sikhy is right? no! did i say disrespect any faith? no! did i say what christians need to be doing? no! You come in here and read one of my post and decided to explode without even reading my others ones. Celebrate what you want, go do what you want on christmas, go put up what ever lights you want. Go sing what ever song you want. Since you wanna invite me so much stuff, ok. fine. Tell me which christmas song guru gobind singh ji sang? tell me how many presents he handed out on dec. 25th. Tell me how many lights he put up, tell me how and christmas trees he put up. Tell me what he did on that day that people say is celebrating christmas. ?????????? Can you please tell me when Guru Sahib surfed the internet, or went on MSN?

The commitee has nothing to do with this. Paathis and Granthi take care of day to day stuff, commitee just pays bills, gets visas, does repairs. this could have happened at any gurdwara. its easy to blame people, but they should only be blamed if its really their fault. It isnt the commitee that does parkash and sukhasaan of guru sahib. it isnt the commitee that gives the kid a lighter or match. it isnt the commitee that left guru sahib unattended

Thats the same mistake the babbars made in boycotting the election. You should learn from history, not repeat it.

eveyrone run, hide... kanga police is on the loose

I would say it is a part of rehit that can boost your spiritual jeevan. I personally do not keep sarbloh bibek, but to deny some of its benefits is wrong. But bibek of not eating from outside i believe is definetely important. In amrit sanchar, when the amrit is prepared, it is prepared in sarbloh, while bani is being recited into it. The vibrations from the sarbloh and the bani, make water into Amrit. When these vibrations go inside us they uplift our vibrations. (When our vibrations rise, we are spiritually uplifted). So it makes sense, that if we prepare our food in sarbloh while reciting bani, we will get good vibrations from that, which will go inside us, and help keep our good vibrations going. Even if we do not prepare our food in sarbloh, we should atleast be reciting bani while preparing our food. When we eat from outside, there are no positive vibrations going into that food. Infact there may be negative vibrations going into the food. When we read bani do bhagti, we are raising our vibrations, so it would make sense not to eat food that will lower those vibrations we are building, it would make more sense to eat food that will help us maintain where we are at or even raise it. There is a whole science about these 'vibrations', and many papers have been written about them by people of many faiths, these vibrations are something that no one can deny exists. And at the end of the day, we are here for one reason, and one reason only. To do bhagti, which directly raises our vibrations (thats the science behind it), so to do something that doesn't raise, and may lower those vibrations, is counter-productive. That's what I believe.