TheeTurbanator

All of this is already mentioned in Gurbani, my point still stands. The Guru created the Khalsa Panth and also gave it Gurgaddhi. The Khalsa is designed to evolve over time, and there is a reason why Gurbani does not contain many very specific rules, becuase they would become outdated. Gurbani only contains that which is allways relevant, my point still stands. PS: Singhs and Kaurs, not just only Singhs.

It's such an obvious joke. I give very clear and obvious indications when I am joking, compared to when im in serious mode, which I am 90% of the time. IT'S A JOKE, and a very obvious one. If you know my views, you will know that I have oftentimes criticised the SGPC. Your original post is literally inline with my views, it already affirms that the Guru called the Sikh ideology "Sikhi", "GurSikhi", among other terms, but none of them were the common "Sikhism" which we see today.

See, the problem with you @BhForce is that from the start you assume that just becuase I believe that we as Sikhs should use a lot of Dharmic terms, that I somehow follow the pre-colonial Khalsa Rehat, which are two completely different concepts. Gurbani/Sikh concepts are set in stone, but the Khalsa Rehat is supposed to evolve over time. You are confusing the two. When I state that as Sikhs we should try to preserve Sikh terms in languages (like English) that allow foreign terms, it's becuse of the fact that the way we use terms has an affect on our understanding of them. For example: "God" sounds very dualitic, and Abrahamic, it sound like a man in the sky who is separate from creation. However, "Universal; force" sounds much more mystical and inline with panentheism which states that the universal force is intertwined in creation, and isnt dualistic. Should we as Sikhs not use the terms like ੴ which were coined by the Guru for a specific purpose? why do we need to replace Sikh terms with Anglican terms? Furthermore, why do we pick and choose when the english language already allows us to freely use foreign terms? When it comes to the term "Sikhism", it's obvious that it wasn't used by the Guru, ever, and that by itself is a strong enough argument as to why the overall label the Sikh ideology should be what the Guru called it. However, the main reason I advocate so strongly for using Sikhi over the bastardized colonial term "Sikhism", is becuase it mixes Sikhi with what is understood by the anglican consciousness understanding, and also robs us of a unique piece of identity that was historically used to identity Sikhi. You dont see Muslims water down Islam by calling it "Muhammadism", but rather them fighting to reclaim their terms in the 1980s. Im not making the argument that Sikhs just stop using english altogether, however that we should try to use as many major terms from the Sikh lexicon as we can if the language allows it in order to preserve the meaning and identity. If you wanna sit down and talk about this issue in depth, let me know and we can figure out a time to talk.

Im also speaking using the British technique of English

SGPC is doing a great job preserving the Abrahamic Framework of Sikhism, I love those guys! SGPC ZINDABAAAAAAAAAAD!

I actually support SIKHISM RELIGION and I think we should water down the Sikh Dharam even more until we just accept Sant Baba Jesus Singh Christ and completely adopt the Abrahamic Framework.

Yes I do

Stop lying, it was called “Sikhism” by the Guru, that’s what Wikipedia says, so it must be true. Stop trying to change our glorious colonial history you Sanatanist Sikh. SIKHISM is the best RELIGION

Source? Modern day Muslims are not the Mughal Army. “Atheist Muslim” is an oxymoron

No, the reason why the Guru ordered the Khalsa Panth not to indulge in Halal or any type of ritualized meat was to give Khalsa Sikhs a distinct identity so they would not have to rely on others for meat or be seen eating their type of meat. This idea that Halal is a part of a conspiracy to take over the world is just anti Muslim propaganda. Why are you trying so hard to frame the average Muslims like a secret jihadi? Let’s be honest, your average Muslim doesn’t care, and probably is only “Muslim” in name.

“We’re” not a “religion”, Sikhi is Dharam and it comes directly from ੴ, and has existed in each and every Yug from the beginning. Its the Khalsa Panth that was formalized in 1699 and came “after Islam”. If you want to fight against Islam, the first thing you need to do is respect Sikhi’s Dharmic roots and distance it from Abrehamic concepts to give it a distinct identity. The words that we use have an affect on the way we understand things. There is a specific reason the Guru created a specific path with a clear distinct identity. “We” as in the Sikh community do have problems, but Sikhi is perfect. A prime reason a lot of people disavow themselves as Sikh is because the Sikh community has watered down Sikhi and passed it on as some sort of Abrehamic knockoff with the same rituals the Guru criticizes. Second, “Hinduism” isn’t even a religion, it’s a blanket term of Dharam’s which have a common Vedic line. Source? And please dont copy paste something from a right wing Anti-Islam website. The same applies to the Sikh community. There are so many Cultiral Amritdhari’s these days. The modern day “AMRIT-dhari’s” are the equivalent to Christians who get baptized, after all, that’s how low Khand Di Phaul is now, it’s basically like the Christian Baptism. You sound like one of those Anti-Muslim comspriacy theorists. You are overhyping Halal food. The true “spears edge” of a takeover is the degregation of a communities roots and morals, something that has already happened in the Sikh(ism) community, LoL! Wow you must really hate the Muslim community, why are you trying to create an “us vs them” narrative? I hope you realize that your average Muslim doesn’t care.

This one line represents a lot of what is wrong with the modern day Khalistani movement. When you get criticized, you personally attack the person instead of the actual argument. The first step is education. You people need to get more intellectual first and spread Sikhi before you pick up weapons.

You completely misunderstand my point, im not criticizing the fact that they are singing about assassinations, but the manner in which they are doing so. Sikhs traditionally had a lot of humility and discipline, but these guys are acting like a Gangbangers, and its not a great image for Sikhs. Just look at the way they are boasting and waving around guns. There is a certain etiquette and way to talk about sensitive topics. Music videos like this just make the entire freedom movement look bad. Stupid argument. We as Sikhs need to stop blaming others for our problems and take responsibility. The Indian government isnt everywhere, and responsible for everything. The very fact that we have so much caste and lack of education in the WEST, outside of India, shows that we are doing this to ourselves. It's time to come out of denial mode and accept the reality, the Sikh community is harming itself. Let's be honest, the main activists for Khalistan are in the west, and Khalistan movement in India was destroyed in the 1980-90s, they fought a war they could not win, and they lost. The remnants of their ideology fled to the west becuase they would not be safe in india. The tactics the Khalistanis used in the past did not work, and will never work. It's time we focus on fixing our major issues and spreading Sikhi. Maybe in a few generations when we are more competent that we should openly demand a separate state, but for now a united india is our best option against both India and Pakistan. This music video demonstrates the horrible state of the panth, we are all talk, we can't even do anything besides making music videos. The people who made that video are probably all blacklisted from india. We need less gangbangers and wanna be freedom fighters, and more proper education and academic focus. AK47s dont work anymore, it's time to update our strategy.

Can we please stop personally attacking others? Just make your points, back them up with Gurbani, and get on.

There is no free will, becuase there is no "us" to be free in the first place.

No one can tamper with Akaal Purakhs Hukam even if they wanted to

I dont know, maybe becuase people die? You need strength and will power motivation to keep on going, suicide is for those who give in.

We need a Sikh Sangat App for mobile devices

100% agree, this type of passive and submissive attitude is how civilizations, dharam"s, religions, ideologies, etc fall. Its sad that Sikhs have been in Punjab for over 500 years, but now there are more Christians than Sikhs. If we dont do something soon, we will lose the last Sikh majority state on earth, then things will get much more worse becuase democracy, politicians won't try to please us for votes, and no one will care about us.

I never knew that the Ahmedeya's tried to push their propaganda on this forum, the only attempt i've seen is the Naamdhari cultists who also tried to attack Reddit.com/r/Sikh. Great job on creating an initiative to stop them. Could you please share some tacts and common arguments that they would use on this forum? or show some of their threads so that we can learn from it? thanks!

I was at the Basics of Sikhi stall located at 128th and 80th, I wish someone had come to us and informed us of this, the ahmadiyya believe that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim, and it would have been a perfect opportunity for us to have a discussion with them, and clear up their misconceptions about Sikhi. Let this be a warning to all Sikhs, if we do not do parchaar of Sikhi, someone else will. It's time we start getting serious about Sikhi, before it's too late.

Im not authorized to send paypal links, if you would like to donate, please do it thought the official Basics of Sikhi website.

I literally never said that, I have no idea how you manage to misrepresent my views when in the text that you quoted me in it literally said: "The celebration of Vaisakhi predates Sikhi itself, however after the formalization of the Khalsa in 1699 it was mainly celebrated as a religious event for Sikhs" Not going to waste my time getting into a historical debate with you, the same guy who said: "So far as a analysis of textual differences of many different saroops conducted by an advisor to Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti found, there are minor vowel differences in a few places. There are no major differences (word differences)" LoL Semantics Vaisakhi was transformed and given a Dharmic significance for Sikhs by the Guru, this is a fact. I literally never said it was banned. There's nothing wrong with celebrating a harvest, whats wrong is when Sikhs celebrate a harvest festival over their own Dharmic Vaisakhi, which is the issue today. You stoop to lower and lower levels every time. Now your accusing me of denigrating Langar. I hope you realize that there is a differance between "free food" and the Sikh concept of "Langar". Punjabi culture is not Sikh culture, only SIKH CULTURE IS SIKH CULTURE. The Guru over a 200+ year period created a unique Sikh culture. We need to separate Punjabi culture from Sikhi, and discourage Punjabi culture when showing or talking about Sikhi. We need to promote Sikh culture instead of Punjabi culture. Were not talking about the 6th Guru, were talking about right now, didnt you read what I wrote? Why are you confusing time periods? Are you living under a rock or something? The Punjabi aspect of Vaisakhi has overshadowed the Dharmic aspect for Sikhs, anyone who has common sense can see this, but you are so much about defending your hillbilly Punjabi farmer culture that you undermine Sikh culture. Im not Punjabi, you dont know me, dont assume my culture. Our forefathers are not Punjabi, they are Sikh. You confuse Punjabi culture with Sikh culture yet again. Your precious Punjabi culture would be destroyed if it wasn't for Sikhi, just remember that. Where would you get that idea from? Furthermore, being "Amritdhari" by itself doesn't mean much, and certainly doesn't make one "hardcore". What are you even talking about? After all these misrepresentations of my views, I cant tell if you are you malicious or genuinely concomitant. Are you ok? I think you need some help becuase you dont know how to process information properly. You are constantly misrepresenting my views. I dont know what kind of "relgion" you follow, but its pretty obvious that the Punjabi community and culture is ruining Sikhi. You clearly haven't been to many nagar kirtans... If people want to practice their Punjabi culture, they are free to do so, all I say is that we dont mix Punjabi culture with Sikh culture, becuase they arent the same. Also, Punjabi culture is not superior over other cultures, its funny how you say this while most likely living in the west and typing in English, lol

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! A Basic Rundown of Vaisakhi Vaisakhi is a dharmic, and cultural festival which is celebrated on the 13th or 14th of April every year. For Sikhs, it commemorates the formation of Khalsa Panth, for Punjabi's it marks the beginning of the harvest season. The celebration of Vaisakhi predates Sikhi itself, however after the formalization of the Khalsa in 1699 it was mainly celebrated as a religious event for Sikhs. A lot of people might not realize this, but Guru Nanak Dev Ji was also born on Vaisakhi 1469 (Wikipedia is wrong), the same day Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the 10th Human form of Nanak, decided to lay down the formalization for the Khalsa Panth. This fact is often forgotten, but it amplifies the importance of Vaisakhi for Sikhs, as not just a celebration for the creation of the Khalsa, but also the day Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born. The Truth about Vaisakhi Vaisakhi used to be a Punjabi new years harvest festival, and was transformed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji to celebrate the creation of the Khalsa, but modern day Vaisakhi has mostly devolved from a celebration of the Khalsa back into a Punjabi festival. Vaisakhi for Sikhs isnt about Bhangra dancing, colorful cloths, or free food, it's about celebrating the creation of the Khalsa Panth. When I ask non-sikhs, and even some sikhs about Vaisakhi, they seem to be clueless as to why we celebrate it in the first place, and instead make it about free food or socializing with friends. We attend all these Nagar Kirtan parades and we eat food and meet friends, but at the end of the day we dont end up learning anything about Sikhi. Sadly, Vaisakhi also gets hijacked by corporations trying to promote their business, and Politicians trying to promote their party. This is bad becuase their are taking advantage of such an important occasion, however isn't that bad becuase these corporations and politicians also contribute a lot of funds to organizing Vaisakhi, help spread awareness, and participate in it themselves to attract even more people. I think we should find a way to limit them, if not cut them out completely. We are not responsible for promoting another culture at a Sikh event, especially when they are using Gurdwara money, on Gurdwara property, under the name of a Sikh event. Punjabi culture itself is often times anti Sikh as it promotes alcohol, sexism, caste system, etc. If we allow any of it, then we risk mixing it and passing it off as Sikhi to the rest of the world. This will create a lot of problems becuase people will be fed misinformation that will be the direct result of Sikhi being watered down by Punjabi culture. Now before you get triggered and start calling me a radical, fundamentalist, zealot, extremist or any of the buzzwords people like to use, just keep in mind that I am a freedom of speech and expression advocate, and I dont feel like we should outright ban Bhangra, Punjabi Music, or food. I definitely feel like their are a lot of people who come to Vaisakhi just for the food, music, dancing, etc, and to ban the aforementioned practices would cut off a lot of people who could be potentially educated on Sikhi. Instead of having a complete blanket Ban like some Sikhs propose, I think that we should try to somehow limit the Punjabi culture and push back hard and find a way to bring the focus on Vaisakhi back to Sikhi instead of Punjabi culture. Typical Punjabi "Counterarguments" When I bring up the issue of the Punjabiization of Vaisakhi, I often times hear the same pathetic counterarguments from Punjabis who try to defend the Punjabification of Vaisakhi. I will now address some of these common "counterarguments" that Punjabis bring up in defense of the current state of Vaisakhi. One common argument Punjabis like to bring up is "oh but most people who attend Vaisakhi are already Sikh, why do you have to promote relgion so much?", that might be true, but keep in mind that most people are only Sikh in name, and when confronted, they know very little about Sikhi, or just know misinformation. When I personally do parchaar and hand out the "3 Facts about Sikhi" leaflets at Vaisakhi, a lot of Punjabi "Sikhs" reject my lefts saying something along the lines of "were already Sikh,we know about Sikh-ism, just focus on the white people, not us", however when I ask them to explain the basic principles they fail miserably and then finally bend the knee and accept the leaflet. Another common argument is "oh but Vaisakhi existed before Sikhi, and was celebrated by farmers as a new year's/harvest festival, you can't just hijack it", it's true that Vaisakhi and was celebrated as a new year's/harvest festival prior to Sikhi, however Sikhs celebrate it becuase of the creation of the Khalsa, and that is what really popularized Vaisakhi, and is what it's known for today. How many people, especially Sikhs in the west, honestly celebrate Vaisakhi as a harvest festival? Most of us aren't even farmers, without Sikhi, Vaisakhi would be all but irrelevant in the modern age. If someone wants to celebrate Vaisakhi as a harvest festival, then they are free to do so and we aren't stopping them, however we as Sikhs must remember that we celebrate Vaisakhi as the creation of the Khalsa. Make Vaisakhi Great Again At the moment Vaisakhi is nothing more than a Punjabi festival with a Sikhi twist, we need to reverse that. I propose that we start by increasing all efforts to do parchar and educate the community on Sikhi. Vaisakhi attracts hundreds of thousands of people, all of whom have the potential to be educated. This is a golden opportunity that only comes once a year, and we as a Panth need to capitalize on it if we are to grow Sikhi. What better place and time to spread Sikhi than at a Nagar Kirtan during Vaisakhi time. It honestly says a lot about the Sikh community when very few "Sikhs" are educated on it, and even fewer are fully committed to the faith. I feel like we need to really focus on our community, and not sideline them in favor of non-sikhs, becuase at the end of the day these are the people who identify as Sikh and still practice some form of Sikhi, even tho it is a watered down, and heavily Punjabiized version. Punjabi culture is like a double edged sword, it promotes anti-sikh practices, however it also promotes pride & bravery to defend ones way of life. When things get serious, Punjabi's are often the first one to go fight on the frontlines. During 1984 many non Amritdhari Punjabis, who were otherwise never religious and would never wake up for Amritvela, joined the fight and died fighting in defense of Harmandir Sahib. The thing about Punjabi's is that they are always ready to die for the Panth, but aren't willing to live for the Panth. I feel like Punjabis have a place in the Sikh community becuase without them we wouldn't get very far. We need to take the good things about Punjabi culture and leave the bad, this is why I dont feel like Punjabis are a lost cause and are worth doing Parchaar to. What I propose is that we drastically increase our education efforts. This can be done in the form of educational events, school programs, university courses, and most importantly: street parchaar. We must also compare and contrast between Sikhi and Punjabism in order to separate them, and demonstrate Sikhi's obvious superiority. Instead of a straight up ban, I would suggest we specifically stop Music that contains anti Sikh themes that promote drugs, alcohol, degrading women, etc at Sikh associated events and Gurdwaras. If someone wants to go around blasting anti Sikh music then by all means go ahead, but not at a Sikh event. As for bhangra, although it does not represent Sikhi, if someone wants to dance to celebrate the creation of the Khalsa then I think it's fine. If we follow through with the aforementioned strategies, we can still keep the Punjabis happy, all while promoting Sikhi! My Question for the Community What would you improve or change for Vaisakhi to make it focus more on sikhi, rather than Punjabi culture? Please leave your suggestions down below. Resources Informative Leaflets RajoanaTV Exposing the Culturalization of Vaisakhi Nanak Naam on why Sikhs celebrate Vaisakhi, & its significance Basics of Sikhi on The Unique Khalsa Panth! Vaisakhi Katha

If this is true, then what’s stopping the Hazuri Sikhs from sharing it with the world like Gurbani is meant to be? If we truly do have the Damdami Bir, then we would not have any controvercies like we do today.