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Everything posted by Siddhartha

  1. Haridasji Apologies for replying a bit late. My heart is in the right place but being a mere mortal I do feel the hurt. Throughout the history and also in present times, it has always been the preachers that have preached hatred. And it's most damaging/disparaging when it comes from the house of God himself. My concern is about what is going on within the Sikh community that such hate for hindus is on the rise. Regards Siddharth
  2. Preetji Satshriakal Thank you for your kind words that are so true to the essence of your belief. I too have used and still use this old adage of silent majority and vocal minority. But this is now doing irreparable damage as is evident from the Youtube video you watched. The hate has even engulfed the sense of social etiquette/maryada that the 2 parties couldn't even control their hatred in front of a camera. The silent majority should now become vocal and work towards the hope of slowly shrinking that vocal minority. Just imagine how a generation brought up on hate would bring up their progeny. I can't even imagine how much hatred a Sikh child would have for my child if the father of that Sikh child hates hindus. At the same time it's a personal choice/tolerance/stand if one engages in inoccuous banter which again should be within the confines of social etiquette/maryaada. Moreover the key to humour is self-deprecation and it's golden rule is that if you give it, you need to have the maturity to take it too. And I engage in such banter with my very best Sikh friend, who was the one sitting next to me in the gurudwara that day and held my hand when I wanted to stand up in midst of that speech. I have him to thank for keeping me in confines of the etiquette/maryaada that day. Thank you Siddharth
  3. Hello Simran Title is a Title and is a question. Not a statement or my belief. There is a difference. So if I title a discussion as Should same-sex marriage be allowed/legalised, it doesn't in any way implies what I stand for. Or would it mean any different if it would be " Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?" When I wrote: "I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent." See that there is a use of word either followed by options that I feel might not have been executed in a righteous way. My quote: "Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? " Again a question put across to everyone includinf you to encourage discourse. Not a statement of my belief. Now to address your question as to why I did not draw parallel between a Walmart store manager and a Gurudwara Commitee. Firstly the issue is not discrimination. I wasn't stopped from entering the gurudwara, wasn't directed to sit in a hindu only corner, wasn't asked to leave telling me that I couldn't attend a specific ceremony, wasn't stopped from approaching the granth sahib & prostrating in front of it, wasn't denied parshad, wasn't stopped from helping in the langar, wasn't stopped to partake langar, wasn't asked to leave after the langar and wasn't mistreated in anyway. So I had nothing to complain about in terms of discrimination/racism. I am not sure whether you go to a hindu temple so lets use your hindu friend's home for this example. Would you feel discriminated if you went to one of your hindu friends home for a pooja and the pundit there in his sermons start saying: "that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc." Again, before you put the above example in quote, I am telling you that it's an example and not a statement of my belief. So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options. You would take one that you think is in realm of your understanding of etiquette. Ofcourse it is very normal to approach someone directly who has offended you and lot of people still take that course. You are presuming here that I didn't have a conversation with the father of that 8 year old boy. But why do you need to know whether I approached the father and/or the gurudwara committee? What would that tell you? Whether I'm confident or not? Whether I'm educated or not? Whether I'm courageous or timid? Doesn't it suffice that I have with open heart approached this forum community including you with a question? If your hindu/sikh friend would approach you that he/she felt hurt would you try to discuss why's and how's or would you ask what did he/she do to address that hurt? How does the title come across to you Simran when you read it? Would it matter if I changed it from: "Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?", To: Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?" Or: "Bad experience at Gurdwara". Would you then draw different conclusions? Or most importantly would you still draw conclusions from a title after reading the content? I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt? I stand to gain a lot Simran if you come and participate in this forum. Thanks Siddharth
  4. My brother I took my time to reply to you because your comments hurt me and I was contemplating whether I should reply or not. But I came the conclusion that if I don't reply then I defeat the purpose of my visit here. Yes, I have a very smart 6 year old who has been evaluated as gifted and doing year 7 mathematics in year 1. Thankyou that you somehow acknowledge that I'm bringing up my child the right way when you say "good for you". Now when I wrote that half of the congregation were hindus with their head covered and bowed, you answered that maybe they should pick up some books and educate themselves. So if they are educated about the issues and have comtempt for Sikhs, Sikhism, Gurus and their teachings, what do you suppose they are doing there in the gurudwara? When I wrote History is documented, I meant that if any child goes on the internet and search for 1984 riots, he/she will come across lot of conflicting information. Same goes with the books. For the sake of this argument, let's take sides. Being a hindu I can quote you books written by hindus, civilians, military personnel n analysts & Caucasians, information on websites and blogs that document The atrocities hindus endured at the hands of Sikhs. Being a Sikh, I'm sure you can bombard me with links and information depicting the atrocities inflicted by hindus on Sikhs. That's why I wrote history is documented and suffers the bane of opinions & biases. Now if you yourself witnessed the horrors of 1984, who in their sanity can question the authenticity of the experience and its aftermath.Now our kids access these conflicting sources of information and approach their parents. How you handle that query and how you answer that inquisitiveness dictates whether your kid would hate mine just because they are of different beliefs. And this is why I'm here. I don't want that ti happen. Then you wrote "No it's the other way around" to the the question whether Sikhs hate hindus. And then you ask me to spare you my BS, tell me I'm lying and call me the worst of venemous snake hiding behind kind words. You chose to ignore the kind words, my approach, my demeanour and relied on your presumption to call me names and then went on to write "no it's other way around". Brother, Gurudwara - door/pathway to Guru. I was there. And you chose to ignore that. Hope you don't anymore feel that I'm someone using spurious IP addresses & trolling the public forums on Sikhism to spew venom and then come to party to have a heartwarming discussion. Your brother Siddharth
  5. Hello Premi5 Just to answer your question without implying anything, NO I won't be happy if Sikhs were wiped out/become Hindus. Now that I have answered your question, here is my question. Why would you ask such a question of me after reading everything I have so far written here in this forum?
  6. Dear Harsharan Your wisdom is heart-warming and your benevolence is contagious. Even though I can't be as eloquent as you, I concur with your comment in it's entirety. This is exactly why I am here. I'm not here to seek apology for what happened at the gurudwara. How can someone apologise for a thought process? And as you have commented how could the wisdom of bani go waste. I could already be a Sikh in the essence of the gurujis teachings. Harsharanji I don't have such a morose outlook of humanity that I would believe that all my Sikh brothers are the same. And you so very well epitomise that belief. As you've advised me to attempt to wash away the discord within the hearts of hindus I come across, this is my attempt to reach across to my Sikh brothers because I felt this hatred. And I decided that I have to do my part to alleviate this suffering. I look forward to more words of wisdom from you. Regards Siddharth
  7. Simran How can you deduce from all the posts here so far, the words I used and how I articulated, that I'm painting all the Sikhs with the same brush. Why would I conjure up a story, look for a forum and then not spew venom? Do you think I have a thirst for apology or a false sense of propriety that I need to satiate by commenting in public forums? I'm not the apologist kind. I am a very confident individual at peace with my being because I have no malice and I believe in doing. Some or any action is superior to an inaction. To answer why I didn't approach the gurudwara committee I'll ask you a question instead. You aren't willing to believe in my story, interpreted my comments here in your own way despite them being unambiguous, believe that I had an ulterior motive by apparently making a mountain of a mole hill and "extending it into what it's not". All this presumption and ill will just through my inoccuous comments and you ask why I didn't approach a committee who would have approved the speech & the presentation thus possibly would have been the epicentre of the concern I have. I don't need to read my comments again to be sure that I didn't take any "sides". Neither did I point a finger or used a broad brush. To someone who has approached the supposed "other side" with his concern/feelings and someone who is trying to have a discussion to sow a seed of harmony against this dividing rancour, is " if you had any care for sikhi", "go to a different gurudwara" is all you can say. Please don't try to read between the lines because there is nothing. I'm writing plainly and respectfully. Just take my words and the concern they are expressing in an absolute way. I am not here to imply. If I want to say that all gurudwaras are discriminating, I'll write it exactly like that. To forget history is the biggest mistake. It is our responsibility that our progeny is aware of our roots and history. Just like you, I too have no influence over the my whole community, their actions and their thought process. But the whole "hindu community" has not approached this forum and neither am I representing them. So please don't presume my thoughts, my intentions and connotations of the words I use to express myself. Kindly make an exception & extend me the benefit of doubt and then have a discussion. Much regard Siddharth
  8. Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi... I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect. I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.
  9. Thankyou for extending this benefit of doubt.
  10. Hello BhForce My friend, I'll attempt to assign words to my thoughts in the best possible way that I know of though might not be able to answer to all your points/questions in one sitting. Beautiful shlok that rings so true with what I stand for hence rendering every other point of yours in condradiction with the message in that shlok. You have taken undue advantage by apologising for someone else's actions thus putting me on a backfoot. Such is the nature of this gesture. I thank you for it. You will have no argument from my side in relation to the exploitation and sheer inhumanity perpetrated by priests and Brahmin class amongst Hindus. I am a Brahmin by birth and absolutely abhor the past n present conduct/rituals that would dehumanise. I won't go into my faith n beliefs. That's for some other day. The social structure of that society was lateral with equality which was exploited by people with power and so called knowledge and was turned into a caste system. That was an act of men in the name of a religion. I'm sure you would be aware that some Sikhs consider themselves superior than other Sikhs and won't marry their daugthers into some family names that they consider inferior. I'm sure you would be aware of terminology widely used in Punjab in denigrating tones for field workers from UP/Bihar/Bengal/Pahadi and their treatment. I am aware that ancient caste system still prevails in sections of Hindu society. My point is that that dehumanising that you mentioned still happens. Within your n my community. Do you support it? No you don't. My comment of Sikhs making Hindu jokes have been given too much significance where I felt the hurt behind the need for such jokes. But since you made point pertaining to that comment that no wonder such denigrating jokes are being made, so I'll assume that you include Sikhs amongst the group that were dehumanised alongwith Shudras. But I dont see Hindu "lower caste/shudras/BC's making Hindu jokes despite of the atrocities. So its definitely only Sikhs making Hindu jokes. Now comes the topic of content of these jokes. I have cracked many a Santa Banta jokes in life and never have I come across a content of the joke that potrays anything but foolishness/dumbness/stupidity. Meaning that if Santa/Banta of that joke were replaced with Ram/Shyam or Nasir/Beg, Irish/Yank/Jap/Pommy the joke would still potray the same meaning with no hint of religious/communal undertone. I understand that some Sikhs play along by their own choice or they feel they don't have a choice but bear/laugh or some retaliate and express their displeasure. That's a personal choice. Where I choose to laugh on a pandit joke, brahmin joke, indian joke, currymuncher joke, jew joke, irish/scottish joke, jap/chinese/go.k joke etc., I am acutely aware of the setting the joke is made in, the content of the joke, the intention of the joke and most importantly the sensitivity of the audience. And I vehemently check anyone cracking any hurtful joke. Then you have drawn a parallel with the white/black situation and the related jokes. About KKK and no issues in denigrating them. And in another point a joke about "sardarji barah vaj gaye?". I completely understand your logic behind these points. I completely understand that some Sikhs might feel offended by Santa/Banta jokes just like some Hindus with pandit jokes. And I implicitly understand that some Sikh might feel the right to making such jokes due to the oppression they felt and/or feel. I completely understand that what you might think as funny I might consider offensive and vice versa. But are the likes of Colbert/trump denigrating white people or KKK? Do you think everyone paints white people and KKK with the same brush? Are white people represented by KKK? Are the black priests/preachers deriding/condemning white people or KKK? Have you ever come across a Sardarji joke that is about Sikhism, teachings, any gurujis, Sikh women, Sikh sexual prowess, Sikh valour/cowardice etc.? I have never. Never would I ever be a part of such demeaning act. Again, I understand your logic of denigrating while/after being oppressed. But Sir, this is today. We don't need this hatred now. Are Sikhs still feeling oppressed in USA, Uk, Canada n in other countries? Why do we have to teach our kids that Hindus did this and Hindus did that, even while living overseas? One of the brothers in this forum has asked me to spare him my BS etc. Why such hate? Where is the need of such hate? To support a cause? Does the faith need the crutches of insults? Sir, you are forever vigilant as to what your child might read/watch/hear on the internet, in a mall, on the tv. But we apply no filter in preaching hatred. I have heard arguments that our children need to know the history. And my answer to that is with the same analogy of what you allow your child to be exposed to on the media. A child will learn history, will learn of your viewpoint/stand and will learn of the hurt it has caused to his/her community. But when he learns that, how he learns that dictate whether he develops hate along with that lesson. Unless the motive of that lesson is to teach hate too. Then I'm fighting a lost battle. A brother here said that I might show my true colours after a bit of prodding. Isn't it sad that he feels the need to prod? I have searched for a forum to discuss how I'm feeling about our children and their future. And he could only see a snake behind kind words. I don't consider Guru Nanak Dev Ji as hindu. I don't consider Sikhs as Hindus. I don't consider Buddhist as Hindus. And even if I do or anyone does, does that falter your faith? And then because you deride other sikhs you can do the same for Hindus? And if I take a stand, as many (most?) Hindu, that Sikhs are Hindus, then does it give me a right to deride Sikhs? No one in their right minds would call a wrong right. No one human would call 84 riots anything but a heartbreaking and abhorrent tragedy. Sir, I filter violent/sexual/age-inappropriate content for my kids, same as you do/will do or would have done. But when I was sitting in the gurudwara and on both sides of Guru Granth Sahibji the images/videos of Sikhs been beaten and burning bodies were being played as a backdrop to an 8 year old's speech that Hindus did it, I couldn't filter it for my 6 year old. My children would learn about this tragedy themselves. And children when reading about 84 riots will also come across numerous articles about Hindus being segregated and killed during terrorism, whether you and I believe it to be true or not. But what I'll ensure is that they have the mental acuity to understand the nature of a man before they are exposed to such sufferings . And then when they'll approach me to ask whether it's true or not, I'll answer that it hurt deep. Hurt millions. Inflicted millions. Wounded milions. Such is what a man is capable of. Not Hindu or a Sikh but a man. And that the lesson is to not hurt and when you know someone is hurt, you be that extra compassionate. Same as you. Koi bhi anjane mein hui galti ke liye maafi maangta hun.