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Everything posted by dallysingh101

  1. God Lord! I hope --- isn't going to infest this forum with her whiney white, feminist victim complex! lol Waheguru save us!
  2. That brother had OCD. That effected his thinking (obviously).
  3. @sikhni777 @Lionesswoman I get what you're saying. I don't support women getting getting abused like this myself. And as you can see, most if not all people here have condemned it! But be careful of tying such behaviour to 'browness'. I've seen white men do similar too. Plenty of blacks too. And in the end, if you do that, you just end up supporting the white supremacist agenda of vilifying all nonwhite men (whilst they rampantly paedophile all over the place!) We've already got too many apnay who've got deeply ingrained inferiority complexes to other communities, let's not encourage this further. I think we are clearly learning as a society (in the diaspora at least, forget those pendus back home, they'll have to catch up in their own time). Less and less people tolerate this type of crap, and what we do notice is that it is usually a particular type of conservative, image obsessed, social climber type (who often make extra effort to demonstrate their 'adherence' to normative rules of the faith), that value their projected image over any sort of ethical stance that might compromise this - they are the ones who try and hide this away. Maybe some of your own parents were like this? But let's not turn this into an excuse for self-hate.
  4. Like white culture is so great. What are you, some inferiority complex slave ?
  5. I love your straight talking! lol
  6. That's an easy one. This information is readily available for Singhnis (and most women). Just ask a few free speaking, trustable adult males in your family and they will tell you all about it. There have been crews of Sikh blokes trying to warn apneean about grooming and conversions for decades for instance - but a lot of apneean have chosen to construe this as some sort of devious extension of patriarchy or a jealous attempt control their sex lives. Us uncomplicated blokes are usually pretty straight forward with male crap like that. Especially to females within our inner circles (i.e. family). The male world's gundh is in the open for anyone with half a brain to see. As a male, you realise pretty quickly that a lot of blokes are pretty messed up and manipulative, dominating, abusive (sometimes especially but not exclusively towards women). Unless you live in a closed off environment, you soon see what can happen to dimwitted, unprotected, even partially attractive females. BUT, you can easily detach yourself from the male model being demonstrated (psychologically/mentally) by telling yourself that such behaviour is wrong and that you don't want to be like that. You recognise and acknowledge that such men exist and try and separate yourself from the model of 'maleness' they represent (or maybe you chose not to and begin modelling it yourself). Females are different. I think it is psychologically (i.e. neurobiologically) more difficult for many of them to squarely face up the more negative aspects of female behaviour because they can't somehow mentally separate the less flattering female models being presented from themselves and their own personal being. So it's like a personal attack. That's why any discussion of such topics usually leads to serious hurts feelings, resentment, anger etc. I'd speculate that it may stem from a general female tendency to process things more emotionally then many blokes? Something to do with neurobiological hardwiring? But I could be way off?
  7. It goes back MUCH further that that! These people's ancestors didn't exactly restrain themselves on their slave plantations. Given that segment of societies penchant for weird secret societies too (and we are only getting an inkling of what depraved deviances are normalised there), these people have probably been up to all sorts of depravities for their entertainment, power games and 'initiation ceremonies'.
  8. The hordes of apnay who think Sikhi is akin to modern western liberal thinking.
  9. Don't have cable/sky. Is this available online now?
  10. That's also why they purposefully turned a blind eye to all the Pak paedoing of Sikh (as well as poor white) girls. They filtered down the message to their police and social services to make it a non-issue and criminalised and vilified Sikh brothers who tried to deal with it through the media and 'justice' system. Nice people..... And to think, our lot were running around fighting wars for these people.
  11. I think its because so many of their top political leaders are either closet gay or bisexual, they've made it a top priority to make everyone else accept it over the last few decades.
  12. I wonder if HSD is going to swing by and say hello?
  13. I emailed him over a week ago. No reply yet. I'm doing as well as can be expected I guess. lol Hope you're good.
  14. I don't think that is a good idea myself. I think different forums have different emphasis and interests. I learned A LOT from SA. It's the forum that got me started on naam simran for example. It also improved my Panjabi no end. The other issue is becoming a group-think sheep. We have a problem with this in our community. I'd favour a broader approach to what you are saying myself. Yes, there are some forums who are very..errr...'kumba yaa' and fail to face up to difficult issues when these go against mainstream western thought. SA was never one of them. The other thing I'd say is to avoid posting serious research on one forum only, that way, if it goes down, we are stuck. We should have important information accessible from multiple sources (i.e. duplicates available elsewhere). Otherwise we may repeat the issue with the Central Library in Amritsar being burnt down. That's a hard lesson to learn.
  15. Just so people know where he stands on the current Indian establishment. Here's an old interview (2014) by Trump about India. Very interesting.
  16. I tell you what Chatanga. Whatever arguments we had. Whatever harsh words were ever said between us. And whatever theoretically we might say in future. It don't mean a thing to me. I hear a thousand times worse stuff at work all the time. But what has stayed with me more than any of that, is the growth we did together. All the time we spent increasing our vocabulary on that vocab thread, all the translations we knocked our heads on together (the lassi and cha thing was legendary), the manuscripts we looked at together. See that's why I personally don't mind a certain type of language - as long as it accompanied by true, solid attainment of knowledge. I remember that one 'uncle' from backhome, who'd have mad random abusive fits that used to drive Satnam nuts. I tolerated him, even when he'd turn on me because in the end he used to drop some serious references for us to study, that we would probably not have been blessed to study otherwise.
  17. Maybe it was because a lot of us knew just how serious to take these 'Nangs'. It's only the feeble minded or lazy (in that they can't be bothered to conduct their own research and want everything spoon fed to them in simplistic black and white binary) that would get twisted up by them. Maybe you are one of this type?
  18. I'm not a Jut hater, but I will point out the silliness that emanates from that community when it effects the whole panth. Juts need to be made aware of it as much as anyone else. That way at least people can make informed decisions outside of the hardcore brainwashing they get from their own people. Some of you people make me laugh. Like that forum was at all singular. It touched on everything. Literature, language, history, manuscripts, translations, meditation. If someone doesn't have the budhee to perceive and identify that which is useful and positive, from that which is not - that's their own shortcoming. It's something we have to do in all avenues of life, especially in this day and age (i.e. the 'information age'). It's the exact same principle with CP. People can't see the woods (its important overall message), for the trees (the mere mention of kaam and its potential impact on our behaviour and society).
  19. My question to the more mature sisters on the forum is this: At what age do you think it is suitable to start to introduce CP and its contents to females in one's family?
  20. I had to C&P the contents of that link SANGH stuck up. It says it all: Charitropakhyan and I, a Woman Sanjam Kaur* I am a woman with two teenage daughters and I have recently finished reading the English translation of Charitropakhyan. The whole text of Charitropakhyan deals with different aspects or shades of a woman's nature, some good some bad. The claims by some that these are useless sensual tales arise from incomplete reading of Chritropankhyan with a fickle mind already polluted by the kaamic mud which is all around us. Charitropakhyan should be read in its totality. If one finds them to be sensual tales, it is because all around us there is nothing but 'kaamic' play of the dark-age, kalyug, which has increased millions times more since the time of rachna of Sri Dasam Granth. Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches us to do bhakti and have gyan too. Bhakti is like a boat which will carry us across this terrifying ocean of fire, and gyan will teach us how to swim across this dark ocean. Charitropankhyan read with a discerning mind will give us gyan so that we can build a strong fort of viveka to overcome one of the five vikaras called kam or lust. If you all read Sri Guru Granth Shaib Ji, you will understand that we are asked to reach the turiya state where we become the knower or the observer in us. This observer in all of us who is gone through infinite experiences in infinite lifetimes, and is now here in this human body and has the great gift of being a Sikh and know Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Supreme Guru, the King of this kalyug, that observer can greatly appreciate the lessons Guru Gobind Singh Ji is trying to teach to his beloved Khalsa in Charitropakhyan. Let us think about a Sikh Sirdar, our Guru Sahib’s beautiful incredible creation called Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh Ji created the Khalsa and put him where? Did the great Guru create a perfectly pure place, sterile from all vices for his Khalsa to live in? No. Guru Ji ordered his Khalsa to live here amongst everyone else, to marry, to have family, to earn an honest living. You all know that to live in a grihasta jeevan one has to constantly interact with a woman in different forms - his mother, his wife, his daughter. All you women also know that not much harm can be done to a good man by his mother or daughter, but it is the stage of youth and the problems and the enjoyments that come with it, which can either raise a man or drown him into kaamic mud. All the young women must be able to fully understand how much influence they can have over a man. Now do you all young women, Sikh or non-Sikh, have not come across some woman who is so vile and of bad character that you would never want your husband or fiancé to even know her? Would you not try to protect the man you love from such a woman? Of course you would. We all do, just as a man would protect his wife/daughters. Try to understand, though by keeping away from a bad person may work in case of a woman, but when it comes to protecting a good man from a woman of bad character, it would not be that simple. I bet you all have seen numerous ways women try to deceive a good man or lure him into doing the kinds of things which are sinful. Would we (all women of the world, Sikh and non-Sikh) not try to protect our sons and husbands from women of such low characters? And so did Guru Gobind Singh Ji through his composition, Charitropakhyan. Why can’t Guruji describe to his Sikhs, whom he considers his sons, different ways a woman can deceivingly lead a man down into the dark and twisted path of kaamic sins? If Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "Khalsa meero roop hai khaas" then how can he not try to protect his Khalsa from all kinds of deceit and sensual treachery of women? After all men and women are both present in kalyug and brahmacharya is not the way to Moksha. If grahasta has and can lead to moksha then who is the other very important character of the grahsta jeevan other than man? Of course it is the woman. Can any woman on this earth say honestly that the men know all about how deceiving a woman can be? A man can be as evil as it can get, as is depicted and taught plenty of times to a girl while she is growing up. But the subject of a woman's deceit is still avoided due to various reasons including the fear that such an education can be considered as anti-feminine, or being unfair to the fair sex, or fear of being disrespectful to woman. Haven’t women all over the world, in different time periods, in different continents, in different yugas, in different lokas have done that? Is the woman of today not doing that? Do not Bollywood, Hollywood, Hindi songs and all kinds of this world’s so called entertainment industry depict that? Can any woman Sikh or non-Sikh honestly deny that even one of the scenarios told in Charitropakhyan can never really happen? Can any woman Sikh or non-Sikh say that women are not capable of behaving in such shameful ways? No one can say it. I can also bet that all women in this world would have known some female with such deceitful character as described in Sri Dasam Granth. Women are capable of committing such acts. Just as men can commit evil and heinous acts so can women. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the Great King who wanted to keep his Khalsa pure, and his composition Charitropakhyan plays that role of warning the Khalsa of the challenges it might face. The supreme Badshah has tried to show to his Sikhs that the fair sex is not so fair after all and has its own share of blame to take for the ills of the society. What is wrong in such a teaching? Is it not true that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is trying to protect his Khalsa? And is it not that this is what we all women want too and is it not that all the different chritras of women in Charitropakhyan, bad and good, are true? Guru teaches his Sikhs to be brave through all that. If anyone finds these Charitars sexual it is because of two reasons, one he is not reading the whole chapter and just stopping because some of his hidden kaamic fantasies are popping up in his mind, or second he totally refused to see the tamasha of kaamic maya around him and failed to realize that our Great Guru did a great favor to his Sikhs by trying to protect them from all the deceitful sexual treacheries of women. There is no reason for any good man or woman to feel offended by it or feel sexually aroused by it. It is a dirty pile of all of our own fantasies gathered from the kaamic mud around us which is the cause of that. Our Guru is trying to give us his hand to pull us out of this kaamic quagmire. If one reads Charitropakhyan and feels sexually aroused it is not the writings, but their fantasies which are responsible. Where do these fantasies come from? They come from Bollywood, Hollywood, billboards, and the list goes on. Everyday we all are bombarded by ashleel messages, overt or covert, from songs, movies, magazines which denigrate woman’s physical integrity. Yes it is true that one cannot control and stop all that nonsense, but as a Sikh you should rise above this and should be able to see the futility of all this - the evil effect this all can have on us. How can we not understand that these sound waves emitting from all the ashleel songs around us do affect us. These are the cause of all your sexual fantasies. Getting rid of them is not easy, but if you read and understand Charitropakhyan it is bound to stop you from following that track and you will ask yourself, “Wait a minute, there is so much trash around me. This is not how my Guru wants me to be”. You will try to make an effort to free yourself from all the kaamic quagmire which surrounds all of us. Remember that our Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not prescribe the solution of running to jungles. We have to be here, and become jeevan mukta in the grihasta jeevan. No matter what way you look at it this is a spiritual war and Charitropakhyan is one of the many different ways our great Guru Gobind Singh Ji has shown to win this war. Rise above this kaamic quagmire and you can clearly see that it is the kaamic mud of our minds which is not letting us realize the true purpose intended by our Great Guru Gobind Singh Ji in composing Charitropakhyan. The content of Charitropakhyan is not “ashleel” as described by some. The details about a woman’s beauty and form wherever described in Charitropakhyan are there to explain about the twisted deceitful plan of action indented by her in all the tales. Also as claimed by some, Charitropakhyan is not an attack on women. I think every woman should read Charitropakhyan and I assure all the Sikh women that you will not at all feel offended because Guru Gobind Singh Ji is not criticizing women. Once a woman has read Charitropakhyan in all its totality only then she can come to her conclusions about the main idea and teaching that this composition intends. In it she will find help, a guide, an eye opener, for the good men in her life, not to get entrapped in this kaamic pitfall. We all know that a woman of bad character can make the dark hole of sin appear like a paradise to an unsuspecting man. Charitropakhyan opens his eyes and shows him that it is a dark hole of sin and nothing else. This is one of the numerous gifts of Guru Gobind Singh Ji to his beautiful Khalsa. It is my request to all Sikh women that do not take it personally. I want to ask all Sikh women that you all know quite well the extents of the great goodness of a woman’s heart, and you all also realize the devious and deceiving plans a woman is capable of plotting. There is not only the good heroine in the movie there is also a female villain, a vamp. Now project this to a real life. Don’t you believe that there are real life female villains too who are amongst us all? I am sure you can come up with many examples where a female character is evil beyond description. Once again I will humbly request all the Sikh women to read the Charitropakhyan in its totality. You would be surprised as how much Guru Gobind Singh Ji loved his Khalsa and how he will always protect him. After all it is Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa. It is not some ordinary distinction. It is the greatest honor. For those who think that Charitropakhyan cannot be read in front of their daughters and wives, probably do not understand that the intention of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in writing Charitropakhyan is not to insult women but to make men and women both understand how deceitful and devious a woman's character can be. I would request these people to sit with their wives or daughters or any other women dear and near to them and ‘finish’ reading Chritropankhyan. I am pretty sure no one will feel offended. There is one condition though - that you have to finish reading the whole tales. Why? Because, its only at the end of the tale that you will realize the warning which is given to a person to protect his honor. Only after reading the whole of Charitropakhyan you will be saying “Oh my Great Guru Gobind Singh, you are amazing!” ------------ * Sanjam Kaur lives in Long Island, NY, USA
  21. As they say: You don't miss the water until the well runs dry.
  22. Anyone with some true interest in puratan Sikh manuscripts will know that they frequently contain things that are against modern post Singh Sabha lehar thinking. If we follow the ideas behind the OP then we'll just go back to a state of paranoia about our own literature. Like today, it's clear that the writers of Sikh literature in the past had differing opinions from one another. Anyone surprised at this is a simpleton. Of course we have to exercise caution and use expertise and analysis to evaluate emerging manuscripts, buts let's not let paranoia make us throw out the baby with the bath water.
  23. First things first. If you are using Pritpal Singh Bindra's English translation to read CP, realise that his interpretation is purely a surface level one, and this will impact on your own perceptions. I applaud his endeavour in making the work accessible to the masses. But it's only a starting point. I'm going to be brutally frank. When you say this, it makes me feel like you are another one of those sisters who are walking around in some sort of a coma. There are a hundred and one things that we could point at. Just my own personal observations of how some sisters were going on at uni could be used to create another 303 chariters. https://www.sikhnet.com/news/mundill-mahils-trial-murder-gagandeep-singh https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/12/26/toronto-sisters-arrested-for-allegedly-cyberbullying-and-extorting-nigerian-billionaire.html Have a look at how many times people have posted on the gupt section here to pour their miserable hearts out about sleazy stuff going on in their families. This includes amritdhari families btw. This is only a surface reading. A deeper analysis is required. There are hints at this with some of the names used for the characters. It's a shame that the Sikhawareness site is down. There were discussions on these very things on there. That being said, given ground realities (at least here in the UK), Sikh men DO have to be careful of apneean being deceitful as a consequence of them foolishly following their egos and desires (i.e. human nature). How much havoc has that created here? We've got to a point where the behaviour of enough apneean (note not all!), over a fair few decades has created a dangerous situation for the Sikh community in general here now. The reputation that has been forged by poorly thought out and gullible and lust/ego driven decisions now means that even decent Sikh girls are honed in on and targeted by predators. Now, we have to have an extra burden whenever we send our sisters to universities/work etc. etc. because of the reputation that has unfortunately been made over a few generations. I don't know if you are aware of the Sikh Awareness Society but you should maybe check out their site to get a better understanding of where we are at: http://www.sasorg.co.uk/ I myself believe, and I have heard it also said by female nonSikh friends who interact with Sikh females all the time on a professional and friendship basis, that Sikh women are probably the most freedom given brown girls around. I know there are certain families that are extra with all the control, but generally apneean don't have a fraction of the restrictions placed on them compared to their Panjabi Muslim counterparts for example. I think often, the whole idea of women being 'subjugated' actually comes from the subtle imbibing of western feminist ideas through osmosis through living in the west. It's a sort of perpetual 'victim mentality'. Are there restrictions on behaviour in Sikh society? Hell yes! That goes for males and females. I've seen even more restrictions on females in other communities (like the Chinese, Muslim, conservative Jews and a few others I could mention) but you don't hear the complaining that you hear from apneean from them. A lot of these things are done for the girls own protection. And seeing as apneean aren't unknown to get tricked into prostitution or serious sexual abuse, it's not crying wolf at all. My own experiences are that humans in general are foolish (myself included) and can end up in all sorts of deep trouble through poor decision making, especially when driven by our desires and ego and gullibility (especially when young). The consequence of this on Sikh women are about as clear as day for all of us to see now. CP in the real context of what the Sikh community experiences TODAY, is another testimony to the fearlessness and foresight of our Gurus. Don't take things purely literally, get the underlying points. It's not a bad thing to keep a check on ourselves and our base natures. It's also not a bad thing to understand how this very same thing in other people (who are close to us, our brothers, sisters, wives, friends, mothers etc.) can be dangerous and detrimental for us. One last suggestion is to flip the characters and make the males, female and vice versa. I don't see anything in there that applies to women that doesn't apply to men too. CP is so powerful and relevant that it strikes at the very issue that is weakening our community no end today. I don't think it instills a control freak mentality in men, but rather arms them to realities about human nature (both male and female) that are essential for us to grasp. Btw, did you not pick up on how the framing story itself is a warning against older, powerful men marrying younger, attractive trophy wives? Hell hath no fury like a women scorned too! Does it not highlight the pull of physical youth and power. Are these things not relevant to us today?