SinghSabha1699

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  1. Brother JacfSingh2 Ji, remember that Hindutva and RSS forces are keen to push this genealogy of Dasam Pita as supposedly being a descendent of the Hindu God-King Ram Chander. However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas. Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4) Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥ रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥ He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5. ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥ रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥ The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows. ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥ धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥ And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6. ਅੜਿਲ ॥ अड़िल ॥ ARIL ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥ Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon: ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥ जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥ When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥ लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥ The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule. ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥ भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥ They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥ त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥ O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom. ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥ तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥ When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9. ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥ That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures. ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥ कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥ To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10. Dr. Baldev Singh from PA in his commentary states: The next three chapters are about the ancestors of Guru Nanak Dev and Guru Gobind Singh. Both Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are described as descendents of Sri Ram Chander, the mythical god who was a king in the mythical age of Treta. His sons, Lav and Kush founded the City of Lahore and Kasur in Punjab, respectively, and ruled over there for a very long time. Later on there was a war between their descendents. It was a long war. Shiv Ji with his army of ghosts and goblins witnessed the battle scenes. The Lavis, who were then called Sodhis, defeated their rivals, the Kushis, who then ran away to Kashi. The Kushis were called Bedis after they learned to recite the four Vedas (sacred Hindu scriptures). Later on a Sodhi king sent an emissary to them with the message, “Let us forget the past; come back to Panjab.” The Bedis came back and recited the Vedas to the Sodhi king. All his sins were washed away after listening to the Vedas. The Sodhi king was so much pleased that as an act of gratitude he donated his kingdom to the Bedis. This made the Bedi clan so happy that in return the head of the Bedi clan granted a boon to the Sodhi ex-king. “O pious one, when I will take birth in the age of Kaljug, I will make you worthy of world-wide veneration. As you first listened to the first three Vedas and then donated your kingdom while listening to the fourth Veda, so I will transfer the Guruship to you after I have become Guru three times, consecutively.” This absurd story is an affront to commonsense. The writer implies that Guru Nanak (Bedi) and the six Gurus (Sodhi), Ram Das to Gobind Singh became Gurus because their ancestors were very pious Hindus, who studied Vedas or were very generous to those who recited Vedas to them. In other words, it was due to the blessing earned through the study of Vedas or the donation of kingdom to the reciter of Vedas, which was responsible for the reward of Guruship. On the contrary, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das acquired Guruship after they gave up their Hindu faith's study of the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures. No wonder, the writer does not mention their lineage or how did they earn the Guruship? The writer does not know that belief in caste and lineage contradicts Guru Gobind Singh’s own edict of Kul Nash (freedom from lineage). Besides, the first three Gurus did not come from a Bedi family, only Guru Nanak was born into a Bedi family, Gurus Angad Dev and Amardas were born in Trehan and Bhala clans respectively. The writer also implies that Guru Angad Dev was the reincarnation of Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas was the reincarnation of Guru Angad Dev, but the first three Gurus were contemporaries and reincarnation takes place after the death of a person.
  2. Exactly Genie I agree with you totally above^ Yourself http://sikhsangat.com/index.php?/profile/24820-genie/ and SikhKosh http://sikhsangat.com/index.php?/profile/39944-sikhkosh/ have been at the forefront of stating this truth on the forum for many years. In the context of India we have all the exemplar role models possible for every community out there: Shaheed Bhai Mati Das and Shaheed Bhai Sati Das should be used to encourage 50 million Brahmins into the Truth of Sikhi. Brother Mehtab Singh (probably one of my favourite Amritdhari GurSikh on this site) is an example of what can be achieved by an erstwhile Brahmin coming to Sikhi but we can reach out to millions more. http://sikhsangat.com/index.php?/profile/1792-mehtab-singh/ Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh (appointed leader of the Sikh Fauj) and Giani Ditt Singh are shining examples of the Truth as to why 50 million Jatav's from Mayawati's background (who nowadays declare themselves as Hindu's or Buddhists despite their ancestors revering Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) can be re-integrated into the Sikh Panth. As only Sikhs are true Ravidassia's believing in Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj's teachings and Gurbani as opposed to the apartheid Mandirs of Dera Ballan which exhort their followers to vote for Congress. Instead of Balmiki's being pushed apartheid Mandirs in Punjab we need to do more to explain who Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji was to ensure that all of today's 50 million so-called Hindu Balmiki's return to becoming "Rangrete Guru ke Bete". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhai_Jiwan_Singh Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj are the Truth as to why almost 20 million Kabirpanthi's should be re-integrated back into the Panth after their 1951 estrangement encouraged by Nehru and Hindutva forces. If all 60 million Gujarati's were made aware of Bhai Himmat Singh why would choose to remain in the falsehood of lies their ancestors have raised them with rather than the revolutionary Truth that Sikhi represents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohkam_Singh Instead of looking down on Bihari's if we explain to the 100 million Bihari population where Dasam Pita the upside potential of new Sikhs there is phenomenal. Far from turning Sikhs into a minority in Punjab they can actively increase the percentage of Sikhs in Punjab if we educate them. http://dailysikhupdates.com/dalit-turned-sikh-forms-mini-punjab-in-bihar-after-facing-rejection-in-punjab/ Look at the efforts of the Bengali Sikh lady teacher to single-handedly translate Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj into Odisha pasha for the 40 million who speak that language. SGPC did nothing but compare that to her sincerity and devotion to getting the Truth of Gurbani out there. http://www.hindustantimes.com/chandigarh/ex-school-principal-translates-guru-granth-sahib-in-oriya-seeks-suggestions/story-awVnvUJL7nqAJoMm2R7b8K.html India and the World are thirsting to learn about the Truth of Sikhi but we are currently failing them by our insular approach (which seeks to constantly reduce the number of people defined as Sikh - whilst our Hindutva opponents do the opposite for their political success by falsely listing anybody and everyone with a pulse as Hindu) and its our job to get as many people into the Sikh Panth so that via greater numbers the Sikh Panth has greater ability to do Sarbat da Bhala globally.
  3. Thanks a lot BhForce Bhai Sahib. Sikhs should be able to "agree to disagree" respectfully. Our fundamental Unity should never be compromised over minor theological disagreements in the bigger scheme of things when all of us unitedly need to join forces to tackle the silent Genocide of female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy and poverty afflicting our Panth. If we are unable and too weak to theologically address concerns a fellow Sikh with a different interpretation or jatha affiliation might hold then how will we have the intellectual ability to politely rebutt the arguments from Christians, Muslims and Hindu's. Those that argue for Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh to be killed for holding pro-Gurmat views need to look at the bigger picture of where Sikhs are currently standing at globally today. We don't have the global Khalsa Fauj that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj envisaged and indeed if the proliferation of Hindutva-funded Balmiki and Dera Ballan Mandirs is not tackled (with pyaar and re-integration) then we could be a minority in little east Punjab by as early as the 2021 census.
  4. Exactly right and well stated Genie Bhai Sahib. By ensuing a larger demographic pool of the wider Sikh Panth, more Amritdhari's of better quality will consequently arise. We see this clearly at Vaisakhi 1699. Only one Punjabi stood up out of millions of Punjabi's. Yet thankfully due to a wider Sikh Panth of Guru Sahib's time (Guru Sahib being Jagat Guru for the whole of humanity) four more of our Panj Piare stood up from as far afield as Gujarat to Orissa to Karnataka being their origins. Sikhi will not make the breakthrough to becoming a truly global religion by insisting that newcomers to the faith cannot be sehajdhari. Only by accepting all those who attend Gurdwara as fellow Sikhs will we start to make inroads towards Sikh Panth becoming the largest Qaum in India which will in turn help us to assist the poor and oppressed for Sarbat da Bhala to a greater degree. Had the numbers for the wider Sikh Panth been higher in both 1947 and 1984 we have not have suffered Genocides at the hands of Pakistani's and Congress subsequently. Had we not allowed Nehru to define non-Punjabi sehajdhari's as non-Sikhs in 1951 the Sikh percentage in Delhi would have lynched Rajiv Gandhi before he could his line about "when a large tree falls" as there are ten of millions of people in UP alone (now perceiving themselves to be Hindu's) who were erstwhile Ravidassia, Kabirpanthi, Satnami, Adivasi Sikhs and so on. Where quality is more more important than quantity only applies to the Khalsa Panth in terms of ensuring drug takers and alcoholics or those who practise female infanticide or believe in biraderi apartheid do not take on Khalsa roop for the sole purpose of denigrating the Khalsa Panth.
  5. That's an undeniable fact Chatanga Ji. Damdami Taksal and your beloved leader Sant Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma Khalsa Bhindranwale did indeed campaign for Congress and Indira Gandhi in the 1980 elections - with disastrous end results for our Qaum thereafter. The majority of the Sikh Panth was with Akali Dal in the 1980 elections - yet Damdami Taksal conspiciously chose to stand with Congress and the likes of Raghunandan Lal Bhatia. How else do you think Sant Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma Khalsa Bhindranwale got his American passport during Congress rule whilst the rest of the Panth was destroyed in the Congress Party Genocide of Sikhs. So what if Damdami Taksal choose to push the above Hindutva-sponsored mythology about our Panj Piare. The majority of the Panth recognise the above DDT allegation against our Panj Piare as a denigration not only of the Panj Piare but also the highest of high Gurmukhs who authored Gurbani (who were already mukht).
  6. 1. Dally Paji can you educate me as to why that should be a good thing? As far as I'm concerned any community which is divided on the basis on biraderi apartheid at Gurdwara level and matrimonial apartheid will eventually be destroyed and would deserve to be destroyed if enough people don't have enough balls to put an end to this nonsense. 2. Please explain to me why biraderi based apartheid Gurdwara's are a good thing? Indira Gandhi thought they were a good thing as she funded much of the initial push for them. Then Rajiv Gandhi, then Congress and now Hindutva have accelerated funding to push greedy pro-caste anti-Sikh people within our community in this direction (how wonderful for the masters to allocate apartheid segregated Golaks as the exclusive preserve of their allocated pro-caste minions). 3. You mention the Singh Sabha movement in one breath as if it was an entirely bad thing. May I please request you to perhaps differentiate between: the Amritsar Singh Sabha of Khemu Bedi who were undoubted lackeys of the British and who was chosen by the British to oversee the 1897 Sodhak committee which juxtaposed Sri Chaupai Sahib with the sexually erotic Hindu tales of Triya Charitar. and on the other hand we have the humble, sincere and honest Giani Ditt Singh Ji as the driving force behind the Lahore Singh Sabha. Giani Ditt Singh Ji were spat upon and despised by the Muslims and Hindu's for being in Muslim+Hindu eyes as a low-caste Chamar. Whereas Giani Ditt Singh intellectually led our Qaum and de facto saved our Qaum from oblivion that could have hit us between had the Sikh Panth's population percentage (amongst Punjabi's) remained as low as it was in 1871. Between 1871 to 1947 the Sikh percentage amongst Punjabi's effectively doubled from a small percentage of the Punjabi population which was overwhelmingly Muslim and Hindu in 1871 to 13% of the Punjab population by 1947 thanks to the Lahore Singh Sabha efforts. Whilst 87% of Punjabi's were still non-Sikh in 1947 without Lahore Singh Sabha parchar the Sikhs may not have had the critical mass in numbers to resist ethnic cleansing in Majha and Doaba at the hands of Muslims in 1947 and perhaps the same argument could even be made of Malwa given that even there more Jatts were Hindu and Muslim there as compared Sikh in 1871. By virtue of the Sikh population jumping to about a third of the total population in Majha, Malwa, Doaba by 1947 that was a critical factor in Sikhs avoiding ethnic cleansing in 1947 at the hands of Muslim Jatts, Muslim Rajputs, etc in east Punjab. 4. What exactly is the Jatt agenda? 80% of Jatts are Muslim and Hindu (with over half of Jatts being Pakistani's and indeed even the majority of Mirpuri Pakistani's). A mere 20% of Jatts are Sikh. So the British and Hindutva agenda of equating Jattism to Sikhism does not work. Presently, in India, Jatts are a clear minority of the Sikh population comprising 25% of the Punjab population (which currently is 55% Sikh). However, thanks to Hindutva and RSS-supporting Jatt-castists ensuring the proliferation of apartheid Balmiki and Dera Ballan mandirs in Punjab nowadays (which you seem to indicate your support for) ... Sikhs could once again return to being a minority in even the tiny area of the old Punjab now known as east Punjab (which had become our bastion after the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947). It should be added that the first Prime Minister of Pakistan (Liaquat Ali Khan), the last Chief Minister of Punjab pre-partition (Sikandar Hayat Tiwana) and the majority of those that drafted the 1940 resolution for Pakistan were Muslim Jatts. It's only now that Brahmin caste Muslims (Butts) have become PM of Pakistan via Nawaz Sharif and CM of Pakistani Punjab via his brother. The best way to fight the Jatt agenda you perceive is not by deliberately enhancing their percentage control of certain Gurdwara's but by ensuring a united Sangat in every locality. 4. If a large paercentage of Tharkhans, Bhatre, Ravidassia voluntarily go to apartheid based Gurdwara's then inevitably that strengthens the hands of castist Jatts that you oppose in other Gurdwara's. We need united Gurdwara's in the next 4 years in the UK as a pre-cursor to the same drive being led at pind level in Punjab if we don't want to become a minority even in little east Punjab. I see no reason why we can't have Panj Piare leading the merged Gurdwara's (even if that means taking one Panj Pyara each from the erstwhile apartheid committee Gurdwara's). To Bhai Sahib DSG: Brother, the best way to get rid of the corrupt committee is vote with your feet - if all Sangat refuse to financially patronise Gurdwara's which insists on biraderi purity as a pre-condition for membership but congregate in united Sangat Gurdwara's where all are welcome then that is a solution - however it would be important that such Gurdwara assets are safeguarded with Trustees and the Charity Commission as otherwise unscrupulous apartheid Committee crooks could simply asset strip the property assets once Golak funds desert them.
  7. One very important point about the Ramgarhia Misl history that is often overlooked ... is that around 90% of the Khalsa Warriors (who erased their caste upon Amrit) in the Ramgarhia Misl were in fact descended from sections of the community not engaged in the same noble profession as Bhai Lalo Ji ... essentially that erstwhile Jatts, Khatri's, Tanners, Ranghrete, Weavers, Brahmins, Nai's, Saini's etc, etc from a diverse range of backgrounds made up the bulk of the Ramgarhia Misl forces. What was unique about the Khalsa Sikhs was how they rejected the idiotic concept that the profession or tribe of a person's ancestors had any bearing upon a Khalsa's fitness for leadership. It would be nice if we the youth could at least strive to emulate that spirit by destroying the concept of jaath-paath completely ... with 1 United Gurdwara per locality for 1 Panth under 1 God. Having said that with Ramgarhia boards are well known to only allow membership to those whose both parents are tharkhan (an innovation cooked up by Indira Gandhi and Zail since 1980) so this action of allowing meat and alcohol at the Ramgarhia Hall (purchased from Sangat daswandh) does not surprise me. We need to have single united Sangat Gurdwara's rather than several Gurdwara's in a small Pind or in the same small locality here in the West. As far as I know even Gurdwara are only meant to be named "Local Area" Gurdwara rather than after any individual (no matter how supreme the individual was ... if I can even use that word) as Guru Sahib reminded us never to deflect from remembrance of God first and foremost. Can the youth in the West force such a change within the next 4 years? How can we do it? As if we don't we could a minority in Punjab by 2021. By perhaps flooding local memberships to force Gurdwaray to merge through weight of Sangat opinion? Joint Nagar Kirtans are all well and good but memberships that restrict a person from being a member (on the basis of both parents not being such & such) sickens me. Without unity on such a basic principle, the crooked disunity and discrimination-promoting apartheid managements are trying to kill the Panth from within far worse than what Indira did in 1984 or even the 20% of Sikhs the Pakistani's killed in 1947. The empty Gurdwara sites would be used for the community for sports/elderly/TEFL etc and/or sold to push charitable aims like how Baru Sahib, Khalsa Aid, Sukrit Trust, Scottish Sikh Council, Pingalwara etc to name a few are doing their best to help Sikh and non-Sikhs alike where need is greatest.
  8. I'm proud of that couple. May God bless them with a long and happy marriage. Respect to the bride for not being a racist and by virtue of their Anand Karaj ensuring her husband is a new Sikh so that their children will be Sikhs too. The husband is clearly of West Indian background and those folks are natural born Sikhs given that Sikhi alone opposes slavery unlike Christianity and Islam which both condone it. Globally: 99.7% are non-Sikhs India: 98.4% are non-Sikhs Canada: 98.5% are non-Sikhs UK: 99.4% are non-Sikhs USA: 99.9% are non-Sikhs So is it logical to expect all within our community to marry only those whose parents are both Sikhs? By excluding some sincere couples from partaking in an Anand Karaj to enable their non-Abrahamic non-proselytising new spouses to become new Sikhs, it will only become the fastest way to demographic oblivion for the Sikh Diaspora (by effectively excluding the future children of all such couples from the Sikh Panth). We need to think do we encourage people towards Sikhi or drive them away (to our Panth's long term detriment)?
  9. Some numbers: For every 1,000 people on the planet: 3 are Sikh ... how can we have an effective Khalsa Fauj globally to protect all innocents with such numbers? 66 are Buddhist 133 are Hindu 199 are Muslim 299 are Christian 300 are Atheists or others And yet we have many within our Panth who on behalf of Hindutva forces falsely decry keshdhari's and sehajdhari's as non-Sikhs who they would rather were included amongst Hindu population numbers. Hindutva reduced Sikh numbers to 25% of their actual number in the 1951 census by excluding all non-Punjabi sehajdhari's like Kabirpanthi's, Jatav's, Satnami's, Sindhi's, Baazigars, Vanjaare and so on. Now Hindutva is getting so emboldened that they wish to see Sikhs themselves declare sehajdhari's as non-Sikh so as to reduce the Amritdhari population in Punjab to a mere 3% of the Punjab population who would yield zero political influence as such a small minority in Punjab. Sikh population is currently around 55% in Punjab and projected to become a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census if we don't immediately rally around and unite (regardless of who we are) to tackle female infanticide, drugs, biraderi, cancer, illiteracy and poverty afflicting our Panth as the new age self-orchestrated Genocide. Balmiki and Dera Ballan apartheid mandirs are being funded by Hindutva groups to make Sikhs a minority in Punjab by 2021 while we continue to sit idly by and tolerate matrimonial biraderi apartheid. Quality is more important than quantity when it comes to the quality of our Khalsa Panth. However, the wider Sikh Panth needs the highest numbers possible (via our own actions as ordinary Sangat) in order to do greater seva for the poor, the oppressed, the hungry, the suffering and the vulnerable. Without an active global Khalsa Fauj (albeit one that could serve under the auspices of the UN) the Khalsa Panth is unable to fulfill its duties as Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj wanted.
  10. No sorry S4NGH but Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Guru ka Sikh. I think it's shameful that you cannot accept this historic truth (in contrast to Mughal lies) simply based on your prejudice that Bhai Mardana Ji's parents were Muslims. But if you believe that Bebe Nanaki did matha tek to Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj first i don't have much of an objection to you holding that opinion - that's totally fine. Both Bhai Mardana Ji and Bebe Nanaki Ji are amongst the highest of the high within the Sikh Panth. However, what I do take exception to is your false accusation against Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj that they: 1. supported Slavery https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/slavery.aspx 2. supported Terrorism https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Genocide_of_Banu_Qurayza 3. supported Paedophilia http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/pedophile.htm If you can kindly provide any evidence in Gurbani that according to your false assertion of Baba Farid Ji Maharaj were supposedly a "Muslim missionary in the most forthright manner in favour of Islam, The Prophet Muhammad and the Quran" then I would be most grateful. If you feel slavery, terrorism, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny are acceptable human modes of behaviour then how comes you haven't told us about your Hajj pilgrimage? :-) I always did wonder about you when you previously mentioned that: a) you'd prefer Sikhs to live in Pakistan rather than east Punjab b) you felt that an honest Sikh like Master Tara Singh was a Hindu rat compared to your Jinnah c) you always take great pleasure in defending Pakistani's and being an apologist for Islam and Muslims whilst going out of your way to highlight the faults of a few rare Sikhs d) you feel that the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 in which they killed 20% of Sikhs is no big deal nowadays and that the more hard currency Sikhs can give the Pakistani's via pointless yatra's the better.
  11. Not at all Mr Sangha. Mere acceptance of one God (who may be called Allah, Ram or Vaheguru or other True Names interchangably) does not mean that Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj was an aggressive Muslim missionary espousing the terrorism, genocide,slavery, paedophilia and misogyny espoused and practised by the Holy Prophet Muhammad and the Holy Quran. In order to be Muslim the second line of the Muslim shahada referring to Prophet Muhammad is compulsory. True Sufi's (like Baba Farid Ji Maharaj) being the non-Muslims they are obviously wholeheartedly reject the Prophet Muhammad on account of the well documented and universally acknowledged acts of terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny that the Prophet openly engaged in without remorse. Remember in Pakistan the Muslims make the similarly false allegation that Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj were Muslim. Think about it logically Mr Sangha. Can any Sikh ever sit comfortable when such an accusation is labelled against one of our greatest Gurmukhs (who were so blessed that they authored the Truth of Gurbani)!? Accusing Baba Farid Ji Maharaj of being Muslim is the most vile accusation thinkable for a Sikh to read. Though to be fair to you it may be that your belief is that all religions are equal and whether one religion condones slavery, terrorism, paedophilia, genocide and misogyny is merely something that should be ignored and is perfectly acceptable to accuse Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj of supporting and proselytising. This myth perpetuated by Mughal scribes that Baba Farid Ji Maharaj were Muslim needs to be destroyed. The nonsensical belief that the 1st Sikh in history (Bhai Mardana Ji) despite being the most ardent Guru ka Sikh somehow should be labelled as a non-Sikh is horrible to read. Why was Bhai Mardana Ji the first Guru ka Sikh to do matha tek before Guru Sahib? If one does matha tek to Guru Sahib why would they bow down to a stone idol of the Moon God in Mecca? Do you also believe that Dhan Dhan Baba Namdev Ji Maharaj were Hindu? Why would any of the billion Muslim plus ever consider Sikhi investigating Sikhi as a path of Truth when we have our own Sikhs falsely claiming that the first Sikh in history (Bhai Mardana Ji) was a Muslim (despite the attack on Bhai Mardana Ji for being an apostate at Gurdwara Panja Sahib). Do you sincerely believe Mr Sangha that Bhai Mardana Ji advocated the stoning to death of ex-Muslim apostates who did prostrated themselves before Guru Sahib? Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj also positively despised the falsehood of Islam (and yet are somehow labelled as belonging to beliefs that they repeatedly exposed as falsehoods in Gurbani). It's crucial we as Sikhs do not inadvertently sully the great names of Gurmukhs who rejected terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny as openly glorified in the Holy Quran.
  12. Not at all brother. Mere acceptance of one God (who may be called Allah, Ram or Vaheguru or other True Names interchangably) does not mean that Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj self-identified as a Muslim. In order to be Muslim the second line of the Muslim shahada referring to Prophet Muhammad is compulsory. True Sufi's (like Baba Farid Ji Maharaj) being the non-Muslims they are obviously wholeheartedly reject the Prophet Muhammad on account of the well documented and universally acknowledged acts of terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny that the Prophet openly engaged in without remorse. Remember in Pakistan the Muslims make the similarly false allegation that Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj were Muslim. Think about it logically Mr Virk. Can any Sikh ever sit comfortable when such an accusation is labelled against one of our greatest Gurmukhs (who were so blessed that they authored the Truth of Gurbani)!? Accusing Baba Farid Ji Maharaj of being Muslim is the most vile accusation thinkable for a Sikh to read. Though to be fair to you it may be that your belief is that all religions are equal and whether one religion condones slavery, terrorism, paedophilia, genocide and misogyny is merely something that should be ignored and is perfectly acceptable to accuse Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj of supporting. This myth cooked up Mughal scribes and the followers of Jinnah that Baba Farid Ji Maharaj were Muslim needs to be destroyed. The nonsensical belief that the 1st Sikh in history (Bhai Mardana Ji) despite being the most ardent Guru ka Sikh somehow should be labelled as a non-Sikh is horrible to read (not that you have said this - but others mistakenly have). And similarly in relation to Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj who positively despised the falsehood of Islam (and yet are somehow labelled as belonging to beliefs that they repeatedly exposed as falsehoods). It's crucial we as Sikhs do not inadvertently sully the great names of Gurmukhs who rejected terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny as openly glorified in the Holy Quran.
  13. Sikhi indeed does have an inclusive vision transcending supposed religious identity. Guru Sahib are Jagat Guru for the whole of humanity. I firmly believe that the vast majority of poor people in the world who are good and honest people (but perhaps educated from birth to claim that they are this religion or that) are natural born Sikhs (sehajdhari) by virtue of their righteous spirit and actions. However, to claim that someone is a Muslim because Pakistani Muslims claim them to be (as for example Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj) or that Dhan Dhan Baba Namdev Ji Maharaj are supposedly Hindu because Shiv Sena and RSS followers deliberately wish to delink them from Gurmat is a claim that does not stand up to scrutiny.
  14. Whilst I don't believe that the Canadian government had anything to do with the bombing, I totally do believe that once they discovered that it was RAW operatives behind the bombing of Air India flight 182, they did their absolute best via RCMP to assist in presenting the false flag GOI-sponsored bombing as somehow not being authorised by Rajiv Gandhi for trade related reasons. Don't forget that USSR+UK+USA all actively and provably supported the GOI in their Genocide against Sikhs. Back when Mulroney was Prime Minister in 1985, there were less than 100,000 Sikhs in Canada amongst a population of 26 million Canadians ie less than 0.4% of the electorate so completely politically expendable in comparison to the billions of dollars of trade with Delhi Sarkar. When Indira and Rajiv Gandhi happily killed thousands of innocent Sikhs with glee the murder of a few hundred innocents (including 35 Sikhs from Montreal as well as dozens more from BC and Ontario incidentally and the Sikh pilot) on AI 182 was no big deal. Sikhs cannot commit terrorist actions targetting innocents - those that may rarely have done so are clearly anti-Sikh patits. The evidence is quite clear: - who benefitted? = Rajiv Gandhi and the Government of India (and Canada via trade deals) - who lost out? = the innocent victims of the bombing among whom Sikhs were over-represented demographically ... as well as the tens of thousands of innocent Sikhs killed by Indira + Rajiv Gandhi under the pretext of political cover denigrating Sikhs as terrorists. When it was terrorists Indira+Rajiv who sent out Muhammad Izhar Alam and his Black Cats to murder innocent non-Sikhs as revealed on Wikileaks which I believe also corroborates the findings in Soft Target.