jagjit_waheguru

Attached is the final report by some of us, the Sikh participants at Corrymeela. We felt the faith matters report was in our opinion not reflective of the event and issues raised at corrymeela and afterwards. Below is the press release from us. The final report is attached. Please forward..... From: Jagdeesh Singh [mailto:animalspirit2002@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 30 September 2008 22:49 Subject: Sikh-Muslim Dialogue, 4-6th July 2008: Criticised as Faulty and Constricted - Sikh Participants Release Report Sikh Commission on Race & Cohesion Promoting Sikh perspectives & participation in Community Cohesion CONTACT: Jagdeesh Singh | animalspirit2002@yahoo.co.uk | 07827-321036 PRESS RELEASE: 1st October 2008 GOVERNMENT FUNDED MUSLIM-SIKH DIALOGUE CRITICISED AS ‘FAULTY’ & ‘CONSTRICTED’ Many Sikh participants in a recent government funded Muslim-Sikh dialogue1, have said the initiative was ‘faulty’ and ‘constricted‘. They say it failed to allow a clear and comprehensive discussion on core issues that define tensions between Muslim and Sikh populations2 in the UK. Aggrieved Sikh participants say only 20% of the specially organised 3-day dialogue, over 4-6th July 2008, was spent on core issues3. The rest, they say, was directed into generic discussions and cultural befriending activities. “An important opportunity for engaged dialogue about Sikh experiences and fears about Islamic conversion, kaffirism and social separatism; was vitally missed.” Sikh participants say these prickly issues were genuine, fundamental concerns. However, they were met with palpable shock by both the organisers and the Muslim participants. “Whilst the deep felt Sikh experiences and concerns were clearly and calmly presented; the response from the Muslim participants was one of dismissal and rejection and nervous avoidance by the organisers and facilitators.” The organising body, FAITH MATTERS, was subsequently quoted as describing the expressed concerns as ‘myths’4. FAITH MATTERS published an official report about the dialogue, on 9th September 2008. Several Sikh participants have compiled an alternative report (copy attached) of the whole experience, as they feel the official report does not capture the Sikh experience precisely and fully. They are recommending that, both reports are carefully considered by the government and other bodies working on ‘community cohesion’. The 18-page Sikh report details the seven key issues raised by Sikhs in the dialogue, and explains the serious dissatisfaction with the methodology used. The report gives observations and recommendations about public engagement of ‘community cohesion’ issues affecting Sikhs and various other communities in the UK; including a common sense of concern about issues emanating from the Muslim population. A copy of both reports are being forwarded to Hazel Blears (Minister for Communities and Local Government), the Sikh Parliamentary Group chaired by Rob Marris MP and other key figures concerned with community cohesion. Rob Marris MP has very recently written to Hazel Blears5 asking for detailed information on “what steps your department is taking, to ensure that Sikhs and the other groups…are not being left out” of ’community cohesion’ . - THE END - GOVERNMENT FUNDED MUSLIM-SIKH DIALOGUE, 1st October 2008 FURTHER INFORMATION 1. The dialogue was organised on 4-6 July 2008, at the famous Corrymeela peace centre in Northern Ireland. Fifteen Muslim participants and nine Sikh participants, drawn from Slough, Derby, Coventry, London and Yorkshire, participated in the special weekend dialogue. 2. The dialogue was organised by Faith Matters (www.faith-matters.co.uk), and delivered through a set of facilitators from the famous Corrymeela centre, experienced in Northern Ireland tension issues. Faith Matters received government funding of £30,000 (‘Sikh Of It!’, Eastern Eye, 14th March 2008), from the Department for Communities & Local Communities, to organise discussion on issues of social tension between the two communities. 3. Both Sikh and Muslim participants raised separate, independent issues. Sikh participants raised several core issues around: Islamic conversion campaigns; derogatory labelling of Sikhs as ‘kaffirs’; and, general social segregation and separatism in Muslim communities. Sikh participants feel there was a distinct lack of focus on these pivotal issues. Sikhs detailed their concerns, as: a. Systematic harassment and bullying of Sikh, Hindu, Jewish children, and youth from the host communities. b. Use of the misleading word ‘asian’ in the media and public policy. c. The word “kaffir” should be termed as a racially and religiously hostile. d. Devastating impact of 9/11 on the Sikh community, unrecognised and unacknowledged. e. An investigation into the issues surrounding the “mothers for prevention” case in West Yorkshire. We wish to see if similar behaviour of “grooming” is happening in other cities. f. Proportionate state funding that muslim community is getting, to be made available to Sikh communities to provide support for its members. g. Sikh ethnic monitoring. These are fully detailed in the attached report (see page 7) from Sikh participants. 4. Fiyaz Mughal, Director of Faith Matters was quoted in the Eastern Eye, 18th July 2008 : http://www.easterneyeonline.co.uk/iframe_story.asp?NID=5637 5. On 23th September 2008, the Sikh Commission on Race & Cohesion wrote a detailed email to Rob Marris MP and John Spellar MP, Chair and Co-Chair of the Sikh Affairs Parliamentary Group, on the subject of Sikh concerns about the government’s exclusionary ‘community cohesion’ agenda and the gross lack of inclusion of Sikhs and other diverse communities like English, Scottish, Greek, Italian, Polish and Jewish. In response, Rob Marris MP wrote, on 25th September, to Hazel Blears: “Based on my own experience, there is a large number of Sikhs who feel that, when it comes to community cohesion, their needs are overlooked. Therefore, I should be grateful if you, or one of your colleagues, could let me know, in some detail, what steps your department if taking, to ensure that Sikhs and the other groups to which Mr Singh refers, are not being left out (however inadvertently).” 6. Sikh activists have long expressed anxiety about the government’s ‘community cohesion’ strategy, which they believe is centred on befriending the Muslim populations and discriminates and ignores the rest of the UK diverse communities. Sikh activists say, there is no evidence of the British government reaching out and engaging other communities. They say the government’s predominant focus on the Muslim community is having a divisive, discriminatory and alienating affect on many other communities. - END - Corrymeela_Sikh_report_finalised.pdf

This thread was mentioned on tapoban. So i thought I would put my response to that thread on this one aswell. waheguru ji kakhalsa, waheguru jike fateh Pyare jio, in answer to why am I a sikh? It is because Sikhism is the True religion, way of life and only complete path, which has always been the Truth. Kalyug is the Age of Darkness. No other path has been able to answer its challenge. Instead the others path have led it to more dogmatic, meaningless rituals, and maya. Sahib Siri Guru Nanak Dev ji came to this earth and revealed the Gurmat Naam, and started the Gurmat Nirmal Panth. The bhagats had before self-discovered the Truth, but Guru Nanak brought it to the masses. Guru Nanak taught humanity to rediscover the direct link between Atma and Parmatma. So successful will be the diagnosis by the physician Guru Nanak that via the cure that he reveals, humanity will be saved. So encompassing will it be that a day will come when even the Dharam rai will have nothing left to do, because Guru Nanaks Nirmal Panth will make the Dharam rai job meaningless. Hence the the Gurmat path of Guru Nanak, which is truth in the past, the truth now, and the truth in the future, and it will always be the truth. This path will finish kalyug. No other Path has the capability of this, and niether has it promised it. The highest religion is Gurmat Naam, good virtues, and truthful living. So why be blind and follow the blind. Instead I became a sikh and try ans much as I can to follow the Marg of Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev Ji. waheguru ji kakhalsa, waheguru jike fateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, namstang, thank you for reminding why I rarely even bother visiting sikhsangat anymore. I also notice not only are you still full of bitterness, despite claiming to be a nirmalla, but your language has not improved either. This is on 4 forums, but only this has silly comments after it. Veer ji, a nirmalla is nirmal, i.e. free from hatred of anyone, so please look at yourself before saying double standards. If you have something specific you wish to debate, then do so. I have always debated with you, and often found that you are left wanting. But if you are just going to be childish, then thatis your karams. I could have posted it on sikhsangat myself like I did on other forums. But I just feel sikhsangt is ruined by completely immature people with no real interest in sharing Gurmat or truth, (namstang being one). I have nothing against the mods or people who run it, it is just sillyness here that ruins it. To the other veer, this is not my agenda, I follow my Guru. So as I am a follower of his agenda. But it is like a checklist for all people to look at and see what they have, and what else they could learn. It is there to inspire people to learn and experince more, and strivefor more, and not be content with our current state of sikhi. I stand by what I have written. I never follow any personality no matter how great. I follow just the Gurbani. We do sangat of Gursikhs and learn virtues from them, but we only follow Gurbani. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh P.s. As gursikhs , we are here to bring positive change in the world. This is a huge task. But at least be positive yourselves first.

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh Pyare jio, they are Panthik Gursikhs to come together to sing kirtan for long hours as part of ther Abyass. Parwinder Singh post was funny. So did you not point that about Sikhi, Kesh, Panth? waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa waheguru ji kefateh Pyare jio, read their jeevans then you will see the quality of Gursikhs that they were. http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...204#reply_63204 waheguru ji kekhalsa waheguru ji kefateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, have you read the koran? I have and I must say compared to Gurbani it is very poorly written. Take your time, it is full of fear, fables and general basic concepts, with nothing as deep and inspiringly beautiful as gurbani. Ask them to compare any verse to Jaap sahib by Guru Gobind Singh ji. As far as I am concerned that is the greatest poem ever written. It uses more different languages, phrases and is the most comprehensively beautiful discription of God. As far as the Koran, it was not written by God, neither by Mohammed who is illiterate, and was actually written 50 years later. Does chinese whispers not play a part here? I wish sikhs would stop being so gullable, and stop just accepting the rubbish muslims say to them. There is no point calling yourself the Akal Purkh ki Fauj, if you are going to be intimidated by the first muslim you come across. They have so little to offer, but just rely on the ignorance of sikhs to rip them apart. Gurbani is the only composition actually written by the prohets (i.e. Guru sahibaan). Neither the bible or Koran were written by comtemporaries, but 50 -100 year later. As Guru Ji himself says, I have seen many doors, but none compare to thy... waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh Pyare jio, None of the Guru sahibaan that were of marriagable age, lived in a celibate state. They all lived in Gristi jeevan. The Guru sahibaan are the only sampardaya I follow. It is called the Guru khalsa Panth. Its idealogue and path is enshirined in the sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib ji. All the rest of this samparadya name dropping is nothing but hearsay, and chinese whispers. It is far more advisable for any Sikh to base thier Sikhi upon Gurbani and Gurmat, and not the hearsay of other confused souls. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguruji ke fateh Pyare jio, Leeds demo went very well. Throughout it there was 50 youth, with numerous people talking to public and getting them to sign the petition. The simran on tape helped create a soothing atmosphere, which made it more welcoming. Plus I notice the general public will sign anything for a free packet of crips and a soft drink. Just something to note for next time for Veer dabinderjit and others. I know weekdays are picked because you want to get MPs attention outside Houses of Parliament. But if we are looking at public awareness then if these things are done on a saturday daytime, then that is the time. I have noticed in the Briggate, Leeds on saturdays, the public footfall is significantly higher. Plus I have seen muslims do stalls with free books and getting loads of attention. So just something to consider. Some kind of balance to get these things of a weekday, but at the same get the Mps attention. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji kefateh.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguruji kefateh Pyare jio, as I have said on the other forum. I think rather than having 1313 Akhand paths in a room. It is far better to have 1 Akhand path and have 1313 people sitting there and listening to it. I think our Guru Sahib want us to do paath ourselves and learn from it. I do not think the Gurus message is to have mass akhand paths, which no body listens to. Many of you may disagree, and think this is wonderful. That is fine. Especially as it is for sarbat da Bhalla. But everyday every sikh does ardas for that. I would like to see more parcharaks encouraging people to do sehaj paths, and do path and veechar themselves. Recently a radio station did that. I think it was Amrit bani. It is far better. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguruji kefateh

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, forgive me always disagreeing with namstang, but such his stance that I have to. All of the Five of the Panj Pyares are equal. When you soodh sudhaaie you pick the 5 Gursikhs, then one Gursikh to do seva for Guru maharaj, i.e. Choor sahib, then one for Peradaar di seva, then one to make degh, and then Gursikhs who do abyass with the new ablakhees. When you are given Naam, ALL five of the Panj Payers invite you to sit before them. Amrit is placed in your mouth, eyes, and kesh. Then ALL five place their hands upon your head and give you Naam. No one person can give you Amrit or Naam, only the five together do this. After the Amrit sanchaar, when you are given the rehit, usually only One Gursikh from the Five explains it. Others are welcome to add points. But this does not mean that any one is higher than the others. In conclusion, Naam can only be given by ALL five of the Punj Pyares. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh P.s. veer namstang, it is your conclusion that Naam dhrir is the same as Naam Jugti from one of your mahaprush. I fail to understand your interpretation of naam jugti, or how one person can give it. So I will reserve judgement on whether it is the same. If anyone has any confusion on naam, they should just go to the Punj Pyares. They are the only qualified people to give you the answers. Also Naam can only really be experienced by practice of it in a consistant manner, and not really by internet discussion.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, Das lalli ji, by your own admission, Your maharaj has brought you nothing new, just practiced what others preached. Then how can that person be a guru? A Guru is one who leads others from darkness to light, but yours had to be lead himself. He seeked the path from elsewhere. Yes there are some bad sikhs who believe in caste, but this does not mean, there are not any good sikhs? I put it to you that your Maharaz has set up a cult organisation based on his own ambitions. He has used the fundamentals of Guru nanak and still uses his Naam, but he does accept basics of what Guru Nanak preached. Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev never preached his name as a Guru, he only brought praise of akaal. Yet your maharaz has set himself up. My sahib Guru Nanak dev jis message is based on the Fundamental of truth. Your maharaz has further diluted this truth for his personal gain. My sahib siri Guru Nanak was the physician for all the ills of this world. Your Maharaz is unable to save others from these diseases of the 5 vikaars, because he himself suffers from the same vikaars? My sahib Siri Guru nanak dev ji made "ik Onkaar" and bani as his Guru and praised only Akaal. Your Maharaz has only brought praise upon himself. In conclusion, your maharaz is a poor example of a follower of sahib Siri Guru nanak dev for whom he claims to praise. He has a "mish mash" philosophy based not upon truth. It is a case of the blind leading the blind. Hence I urge you and all your associates not to settle for a poor imitation and realise the true glory of Sahib Siri Guru Nanak dev ji and his Nanak naam, by embracing his real message of Gurbani and the Guru khalsa Panth. waheguru ji ka khalsa, whaeguru ji ke fateh Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhane Sarbat Da Bhala. I am very sorry to keep you waiting my dear brother Jagit Waheguru, but the question you asked was not something I could answer in a one line, so upon your request I have finally completed, I hope this sheds some light on the matter. Darshan Das didn’t give us anything that the Gurbani could have not already; He merely practiced it and taught us how to embrace the teachings on a daily aspect. For example in our dera you are unconditionally accepted, regardless of race, religion, colour, caste or creed. Our sangat is made up of the rangat of all Gods creation. No one is judged or looked upon as being different and our doors are open for all to come and join us and recite His holy Naam. You maybe argue that Gurdwaras, Mosques, Churches and Mandirs have the same fundamental beliefs. I would disagree for the simple fact that man has turned religion into politics. A Ramghari Gurubhai will build his own Gurdwara and a Jatt will build his own, in the same way a Catholic will have a separate Church to a Protestant. A Sunni Muslim will not read his Namaaz in a Shia Mosque and vice versa. So you see, my dear brother, even though God is One Mankind has divided Him up and cannot even sit together to praise Him and have Langar together. Mankind is blinded by his personal gain and bends and twists the words of all Holy Scriptures to his own needs. Also we are thought to be Selfless and to put others before ourselves. We are taught to be humble and forgiving and not use violence under any circumstances. We are taught to be a Das, one who believes in: Sach- To always speak the truth and stay honest above all else Sidak- To be content in whatever circumstances the Lord has placed you under and to be thankful for it. Shahadat- To sacrifice the five vices of human nature - Anger, Lust, Attachment, Pride and Greed. Sarbat da Bhala – - In the name of the Lord ask for the spiritual blessing for all of his creation and do good for others Sadh Sangat - gathering of the flock who rejoices in His holy and divine Naam. Also we are taught to do Seva and Simran. We are also taught not to get entangled and lost in this pretentious world of Maya and forget why we are on this earth. We should try and control our Mann, so it doesn’t get the better of us and lead us astray. Most of all of these teachings can be found in all the Holy Scriptures so this is nothing new, but implementing them into your daily lives is. We are no trying to be Sikhs as some of my dear brothers think. We are people of all walks of life and faiths of the world and all we try to do is be Good Humans and practice our faiths. Yes it is true that we give the utmost respect to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and we know this Great Guru is the way to our salvation as it is written for the Kal Yuug but at the same time some of us read the Holy Quraan, Holy Geeta and the Holy Bible and all are held in the same high regard as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is the beauty of being a multi-faith organization. We are not here to say that we are better than anybody as we are the sinners of the world who seek guidance and spirituality. We have not come to rule the world but the hearts of people. Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhane Sarbat Da Bhala. 146461[/snapback]

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, to all the Gursikhs working in Leeds. There is an Anti-BNP march in Leeds today. The BNP leader Nick Griffin trial continues today. Already there is a heavy police presence. The Unite against Fascism counter march will finish at a rally outside The Leeds Art gallery, The Headrow at noon. It would be great if all the Leeds Gursikhs could take time out at lunch time and attend the Rally, even if just for some minutes. It would be good to see more Gursikhs representing Sikhs there. www.uaf.org.uk Plus it is an ideal opportunity to speak to the other people there about the candle light vigil that we are doing later on this week. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, veer ji, 1. it is Hukam by the Punj Pyares. 2. If i remember correctly, it is also in the Sikh Rehit Maryada. waheguru ji kekhalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, On a day, when I have more time I will expand on the points I raised namstang posts. But if I did that everytime he came up with something strange, I do not think I would have a life. But as he eventually agrees with what I say, I will leave it. As far I sinecerly see in Sikhi, Naam can only be given by the Panj. Call it Naam drittha or Naam jugti, these can also only be given by the Punj. No Gursikh, even if you believe him to be a mahapursh can do this. You need the blessings on the hand on all 5 on your head when you get this Naam. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, many people talk about salvation and many claim to have it. Definitions of it vary. However if we compare sikhi to other religion, Gurmat is the only one than realises a person can become jeevan mukht while alive. If all religions can get mukhti, then why do they not know about the khands and jeevan mukhti? Any individual throughout time who through Wahegurus kirpa realised what Naam is has become jeevan Mukht. Many people around the world have realised this. Bhai Rama singh did when he was a hindu, that he needed to take Amrit. He told me a black man in Africa, who has a high jeevan, and has been given Gurmat naam. The key is without Naam, there is no Mukhti. In fact without Naam, one cannot even leave maya. All the bhagats got Naam from Akaal. The highest religion is Naam. The highest virtue is to Jaap it. The simplest way to get Naam is to go to the Panj Pyares. I think before discussing further everyone should look at the sakhi behind the Gurdwara at Sontokhsar. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh