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Everything posted by Ranjeet01

  1. Some more Home Truths

    Well to your first point, I think some of our people consider Perso-Arabic to be refined and sophisticated and they think it sounds sexy. This feeds into the inferiority complex. To the second point, I think potentially the history of the compilation of our gurbani would provide patterns into what was happening in Punjab. When Guru Nanak Dev Ji was on this earth, Babur was making inroads. So when we look at the bani and see the vocabulary used,we could see how much Islamic influence was around at the time. To the third point, Wahhabism is prevailing. My theory is that there is a proxy war going on between Iran and Saudi Arabia. There is a proxy cultural war happening also. When Arabs conquered the Persians, the Persians were converted to Islam. What the Persians did was to attempt to subvert Islam with their Persian imprint. So to stick 2 fingers to the Arabs they incorporated their own Persian language and culture into Islamic culture. When you see Islamic influence in places such as the subcontinent, SE Asia, Central Asia, Turkey etc what you are seeing is Persian influence. Now the Gulf Arabs have money they are trying to reverse all the Persian influence. That is why they are getting people to say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz for example.
  2. Some more Home Truths

    Iraqi Shia. Shia is dominated by Iran and they have influence on Iraqi Shia.
  3. Some more Home Truths

    If they are in Gurbani, leave them where they are. However if in Gurbani there are other words that mean the same thing which we don't use, why not use them instead. I would like to know what the percentage of Gurbani has Persian /Arabic vocabulary. What would also be interesting is through the Gurbani from our first guru through to Dashmesh Pita, was there an increase in Arab/Persian words being used as there was increase in Islamicization of the society at that time? What I find strange about the likes of Sartaaj is that these types revere the Sufi ways more than the Punjabi muslims.
  4. Some more Home Truths

    The word Wuzu is Persian derative of Wudhu and Namaz is the Persian for Salah. The Persians had to find a way to purge the Arab words and find their own words. In Pakistan, Muslims are being encouraged to say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz because Khuda is Persian and not Arab.
  5. Some more Home Truths

    The question would be are there arab loanwords that can be gotten rid off if we have perfectly good indigenous words we could use instead. For example, should we use sansaar instead of duniya. What other words could we replace if it is already in our vocabulary. Do some us prefer the back throated sounds of the Arab words because we think it sounds sexy and we can pretend to be some pakhandi Sufi poet?
  6. What would India be if the British never came?

    We would also have a far deeper presence in the Gangetic Plains. No British, no East India Company, no Purbia /Bihari army with no mutiny. The last remaining mughals would have been finished off a lot quicker. Awadh, Agra, Lucknow would have fallen into Sikh hands. There would be a link of Sikhi stretching all the way to Patna.
  7. What would India be if the British never came?

    I would hope that Khalsa empire would have been consolidated with the territories been gained. It would have expanded southward over the Sutlej towards Delhi as there would be no Cis Sutlej agreement with the Brits. The Khalsa Empire would have expanded into Sindh (since there are significant Nanakpanthis in Sindh ). Khalsa Empire would have a seaport since Sindh is by the coast. This would mean that there would be a Khalsa Navy. With coastal trade links, Sikhi would expand across the Indian Ocean. The Sikh population would be larger and I think more Hindus and Muslims would become Sikh. There may have been potential conflict with the Russians as there would no Brits to act as a buffer with the Great Game. With the Industrial Revolution in Europe and Meiji Restoration in Japan in the 1800's there may very well have been some kind of modernisation in industry with the Khalsa Empire. The Punjabi Sikh diaspora would be far smaller because there would be no British Empire to spread the Punjabi Sikh population far and wide. However, we would see Sikhi have a diverse flavour with many different ethnicities being Sikh. In order for the Khalsa Empire to thrive, it would have to transform from being based on some monarchy into something very different. Maybe more panj pyareh orientated perhaps.
  8. It seems it is because this is a University based "research" Both Hundal and Sian are both "University lecturers". One is a sociology lecturer at York and the other is a journalism lecturer at Kingston.
  9. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    In Afghanistan, the Persian dialect is known as Dari. This is spoken predominantly by the Tajiks whilst Pathans speak Pashto. There isn't a lot of love between Afghans and Iranians either. The modern Iranian generally have a more olive type complexion than we do. Georgians and Armenians resemble the Iranian more than we do. We as Punjabis ga-ga when we see someone with green eyes and then claim Persian/Greek ancestory when if it really was the common we would not even bat an eye-lid. There is a subtext of what is going on. The reality is that as a subcontinental people for several thousand years we have been invaded, pillaged and plundered. It brings great shame. The only great thing that has come out of our homeland in the last 2000 years is Sikhi. However, having Hindu ancestory brings great shame because we see it as being weak and cowardly. Plus with everything going in the last 4 decades has pushed some of our people to completely disown this part and create this new ancestory. There is an expression, " Yesterday's low caste hindu who becomes today's muslim will tomorrow claim Persian /Arab ancestory " I think that some level we are doing the same.
  10. Is Sikhism really hijacked by Jattism ?

    Complacency sets in very quickly with our people.
  11. Is Sikhism really hijacked by Jattism ?

    That is a big part of the problem. Our biological hardwiring is human and we are going to human. It takes a lot to overcome these primal urges and parts of human nature. I think when we deal with non-Sikhs we as Sikhs tend to overcome some of our base human instincts but we get stung very badly because we think because we overcome they have to which is not always the case. Gurdwarae in the West are like social centres because they are few of the places sangat can congregate with one another. The Langar hall is where a great deal of socialisation takes place. Gurdwarae in the west for all their faults do this social stuff very well. You see community halls built, football/hockey and sports team set up, Punjabi classes etc. What is happening with Gurdwarae these days is that they are becoming vanity projects. I guess this is what happens when people become affluent.
  12. Is Sikhism really hijacked by Jattism ?

    Human beings like many other species are organised into hierarchies. The caste system is a hierarchy, you can destroy this hierarchy but it will be replaced by another hierarchy. Humans have always discriminated amongst each other for various reasons.If it is not based on caste it will be something else. There is a phemenon happening with Gurdwarae I hear from relatives in California. Gurdwarae aren't based in commitees where one is Jatts dominated or Tharkhan dominated. They are seperated by what is happening locally. There are different gurdwarae based on if you are a "trucker" or a "doctor".
  13. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    I said "some" seem to have a "degree " of inferiority complex. It's like English language. It's a Germanic language coming from Angles who were a tribe/people from Northern Germany like the Saxons which is why they call anglo speaking people Anglo -Saxon. If we use the Punjabi language analogy by "some" of our people then all the English people are German. However, if you have ever been to Germany (like Saxony states where Saxons came from) and have a look at the German compared to the average English person then you will notice a big difference. I would say the average German is far blonder, taller and even their features are slightly different. What would be likely is that the Anglo Saxon migration would have a bigger linguistic and cultural impact but a minimal genetic impact. Then we have had the Norman invasion, the word "Norman" comes from the word "Norsemen " who were Vikings that settled in Normandy in Northern France. Since they were French speakers, I am sure that a lot of French loan words were introduced into the English language but I'm sure the English are not French. However, the Brits (people of England,Scotland, Ireland and Wales) are related to Brittany in Northern France which is why Britain is called "Great Britain". Like I said before there is some cultural overlap but it is not simple as we like to think. Another example are the Azeris of Northern Iran. Azeris are the same stock as the Persians who after being run over by the Turkic speaking peoples changed over their language from Iranian/Persian related to a Turkic one. However, they are not genetically Mongols or Turks from Siberia. Same can be said in regards to modern Turkey to some extent.
  14. Some more Home Truths

    Never said anything about Sanskrit. Though I reckon that what is now India and countries north west have had some connections. Much of the ancient world was more connected than we realise. My language is Punjabi. It is it's own language and it's not a dialect of Persian. We are our own people. Our accomplishments are our own.
  15. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    What is interesting about Persian is that after the Arab conquests in the 7th century, Persians were not able to speak their own mother tongue and were threatened to have their tongues cut out if they did. You are correct about the amount of arab loanwords in Punjabi. . I think some people think it came from Persian but do not realise that at one time Persian contained one third of it's vocabulary from Arabic but I think that has been reversed some what. Language is more than loanwords, it is grammar and sentence structure too. The reality is the "persian " in the Punjabi language is the result of conquest. There seems to be a degree of inferiority complex by some of our people.
  16. Some more Home Truths

    Never denied that wasn't an empire. However, I think that there is a degree of overlap between cultures. I think some of us Sikhs like to disclaim so much of our Hindu heritage/ancestry that now we are claiming to be Persians Vedic hindu culture and some ancient Persian culture (like Zorastrianism ) have a lot in common. It is more likely many thousands of years ago, we were all the same stock of people but we have diverged since. History is a lot more murkier and complex than we like to admit.
  17. Some more Home Truths

    Jagsaw What was the name of the Satrapy that Punjab was part of. I just find it strange that Alexander pretty much took over the Persian Empire, Persopolis was burnt down but still faced stiff resistance in Punjab. Surely if the Macedonians /Greeks took Persian wife's and the Persian way of life and even had Persian troops join their ranks (please correct me if I'm wrong) then the local Punjabis should have accepted them with open arms since we are from these same people. Also, if Punjab's connection with India is very recent how do you explain Ashoka or the Maurya Empire? I think there are a lot of gaps and inconsistencies in what is conventially taught. This is just my layman's opinion and I am no expert.
  18. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    However, it is always assumed influence flows in one direction. Ironically in pre-Islamic Persian empire the lingua franca was Aramaic. Which is interesting because the scripts of Central Asian Buddhism were in Karaghost script which was a script based on the Aramaic one.
  19. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    Persian would have influenced Punjabi because Punjab was under the control of Mughals and the likes of Lodhi who were central asians and Afghans where Persian was lingua franca. In the same way English is lingua franca for Modern India.
  20. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    The claim that we are Persian and then we proceed to call it Farsi which from what I understand is the Arab pronounciation for Persian because there is no "P" in the Arab alphabet.
  21. So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

    There is always this assumption that somehow migration was from West to East. Migration went the other way too. Furthermore, for example it is assumed that red hair is Celtic. However, where did the Celts come from? They went from Asia into Europe. There was a red haired race known as Tocharians that lived in North West China. Also, from studies have shown that until about 7000 years ago that Homo Sapiens that entered into Europe were brown skinned and had blue eyes.
  22. 'The Boy with a Top knot `

    The author is Satnam Sangha / Sanghera I believe.
  23. They should be named and shamed. These types have no qualms about doing bad but don't like being exposed.
  24. Christianity in UK

    A lot of gurdwarae darbar halls are now fitted with projectors uses for translations in English. If you observe with BOS at Park Avenue Southall Gurdwara on Sunday evening, they are full. English is a big factor and they are of a much younger sangat. I remember a talk done by Jagraj Singh who mentioned that Gurdwarae in the west have large darbar halls and in Punjab and India the darbar are not that large. The design of the darbar is very different in the west. The last of your paragraph is very telling of the expectations for a Western Sikh. I believe gurdwarae already do quite a lot more for the Sangat then we realise but this is not publicised like the negative stuff. People expect things to be handed all these things on a silver platter but the thing is the hands of the Sangat. Gurdwarae are self sustaining ecosystems (this is the genius of our Gurus).