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BhForce

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BhForce last won the day on May 25 2017

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About BhForce

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  1. I think saying Sikhsangat is a breeding ground for narrow mindedness would be very wrong. All these threads that run up 5 or more pages? Obviously, they are that long because people are disagreeing with one another. Meaning that 2 (or more) viewpoints are battling it out. Hardly the definition of narrow mindedness, which would mean there being only one viewpoint. As well you should continue to come. Btw, I challenged your opinions, and would like it if you would respond to my post here.
  2. He baited you, bro, and you took the bait, and in doing so twisted yourself into a logical pretzel. Here's how: First you stated that we should not judge other Sikhs. He said, "Including Naamdharis?" Then you said, the definition of a Sikh is fixed in bani and rehat, thereby negating your statement that we shouldn't judge other Sikhs. Now, you'd probably say "they're not Sikhs!". But in order to say that, you have to make a judgement on their Sikhi, or lack of. Another words: you judged them. So, you went into a logical circle, and he go the better of you.
  3. I'd be leery of making that assumption. I think that organizations (including sampardas, political parties--Sikh or non-Sikh) and people associate with a lot of people that they fundamentally disagree with, including (for sampardas), Hindus and Muslims. The one thing about the Naamdharis is they have an extreme amount of knowledge and skill in Gumat sangeet. Taking advantage of that knowledge would, to my mind, be just like having a Hindu music ustaad.
  4. Bro, the original poster specifically stated that he didn't fault his fiancee. Rather, he faults Jagmeet Singh for marrying a person not in Rehat. As far as "I'm concerned" or "Rehat is concerned"? Two very different things. As far as you're concerned, it may be OK to marry a non-Amritdhari. But it's not OK as far as Rehat is concerned. If you disagree, please respond to the specific breakdown I did in my post and followup on why unmarried Amritdharis are told to marry an Amritdhari. Now here's something I can agree with, and did, here. If Jagsaw had been a bit more conciliatory, there wouldn't have been a problem. He could have just said something on the lines of "Jagmeet Singh seems to have married a non-Amritdhari. I'm not judging him, because I don't know his specific situation, but I just wanted to make a general statement for the unmarried Amritdhari youth out there that you're supposed to marry an Amritdhari, for these reasons ..." But he chose to really lay into Jagmeet Singh, and that's why people had a problem with his approach.
  5. Yes, seriously, bro. Would you please answer my questions above? If someone were killing a family member of yours, would it matter to you if they were doing it fast, with a bullet, or slowly with dull knife? I think it wouldn't matter. (Please do answer this question.) I think you're smart enough to figure out my analogy in that killing a person slowly is akin to destroying Waheguru" slowly (with a little car). If a monster car has a 4L engine, and a small car has a 1L engine, then the little car will "destroy Waheguru" in 4x the time the monster car will. So, why is it OK to "destroy Wahegur", just in 4X the time? It may surprise you to know that I basically sympathize with you--if we're talking about expenses. Especially if we're talking about expenses paid by the Sangat. However, that's not what Jagsaw was talking about. He said monster cars "destroy Waheguru". Now, you say that a car is supposed to get you from A to B, and anything over that is "excess". So, tell me, do you (or Jagsaw Singh) have an 800cc Maruti Alto? It gets you from A to B.
  6. If you want to allege financial impropriety, that's your right. But I fail to understand why living in an area which has white people is some sort of crime. Why is it an infraction? Are Sikhs obligated to live in Sikh areas? What is the appropriate percentage of Sikhs in an area in which Sikhs are allowed to live? A bare majority of 51% Or 2/3 at 66%? 75% 95% When Guru Nanak Dev ji was born, what was the percentage of Sikhs in Guru ji's village? When, due to Guru ji's parchar, people across Punjab started to adopt Sikhism, did they then all move to Sikh areas? Or did they continue to live in their non-Sikh villages? People live where it suits them, according to schools, surrounding scenery, jobs, transportation availability, prices, etc. What's the problem? Do you have a line from Gurbani that states that? Really? Would you really like to state that you never use mechanized transportation? Do you walk everywhere you go? The difference between "big monster cars" and other cars is one of quantity, not quality. If someone were killing a family member of yours, would it matter to you if they were doing it fast, with a bullet, or slowly with dull knife? I think it wouldn't matter. So how is it that you, with your little car, are not "destroying Waheguru"?
  7. Are you for real? Did you even bother to read anybody's posts, or did you just happen to see the word "Chandu" in a post and you just wrote that Jagmeet Singh is being compared to Chandu? In no way whatsoever does my post compare Jagmeet Singh to Chandu. I was just refuting some nameless individual's post about hukum. Not to mention the fact that in my previous post, I was highly conciliatory toward Jagmeet Singh and I specifically said that I can't know whether his bride is hair-cut, and that even if she were, we shouldn't bother with the rehit of politicians. SMH.
  8. Dream? Peshi?

    That's funny you mention that, because I had a dream that we'd have yet another peshi post on SikhSangat, and I'd be blowing it off with my reply, which, strange enough, I'm doing right now! :)
  9. Yeah, bro, they have read Gurbani. Have you? Alright, I'll go with that. What is the Guru's hukum, though? ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥ The One Name is the Lord's Command; O Nanak, the True Guru has given me this understanding. ||5|| ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੧) ਅਸਟ (੨੮) ੫:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੨ ਪੰ. ੨ Sri Raag Guru Nanak Dev And how does one fulfill this hukum of Naam? ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਣ ਧਿਆਇ ॥ Parabhaathae Prabh Naam Jap Gur Kae Charan Dhhiaae || In the early hours of the morning, chant the Name of God, and meditate on the Feet of the Guru. ਮਾਰੂ ਵਾਰ² (ਮਃ ੫) (੧੬) ਸ. (ਮਃ ੫) ੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੯੯ ਪੰ. ੧੭ Raag Maaroo Guru Arjan Dev ਉਠਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਸੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥ Rise in the early hours of the morning, and take your cleansing bath. Before you go to bed at night, remember to worship the Lord. ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮਃ ੫) (੧੯) ੩:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੮੫ ਪੰ. ੧੩ Raag Basant Hindol Guru Arjan Dev ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name. ਗਉੜੀ ਵਾਰ¹ (ਮਃ ੪) (੧੧) ਸ. (੪) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੬ Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das If you had bothered to read the previous post, I layed out how hard it is to fulfill this hukum if both spouses are not on the same page. Instead of any specific response, you just chose to accuse people you don't agree with of not having read Gurbani. I already stated that we should not bother to judge this guy specifically. But that doesn't mean we can't affirm the general principle of amritdhari Sikh marrying amritdhari Sikh, again the reasons for which are all layed out in detail in the post above. Brother, you seem not to be fully clued into the full nature and interplay of God's general hukum and specific hukum for us, or of free will vs. predetermination. Do you apply this statement ("it was predestined") to everything that happened in history, or even your own life? Do you think Sikhs are fools for slamming Gangu Bahmin and Wazir Khan? Did the martyrdom of the smaller Sahibzade not happen in hukum? Please answer the question: Did Chandu supervise the torture of Guru Arjan Dev ji in hukum? Or was Chandu able to outside the hukum of God? If Chandu was in hukum, then why did Guru Hargobind ji request and obtain Chandu in order to punish him? Why did Guru ji punish Chandu, if Chandu was already acting in hukum, according to predestination? Was Guru Harbogindji a non-Internet tough guy? Please answer all these questions.
  10. Given the atrocious state of English translations, can we be sure that this translation will not be leading people astray?
  11. 40 converts to Sikhi

    If you saw it on Youtube, why oh why can you not post the link here so the rest of us can see it??
  12. Seriously, thought, you should keep learning more about Sikhism. Also, I would say, you should aim to meet a keshadhari interested in Amrit in the future, not an amritdhari. As well you should not. Please don't start flirting with random guys in the Gurdwara. Just focus on God, and he'll do the rest: ਅਚਿੰਤ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਿਆਰਾ ॥ God automatically does the work of those who love the Name of the Lord.
  13. You missed your chance, sister! Jagmeet Singh just got hitched.
  14. Soap

    @ADMIN, is it just me or is there a spate of ridiculous "I accidentally cut some of my hairs" scenarios being posted to make fun of Sikh keshadhari rehit? What's next? "I was riding my motorcycle and a few loose beard hairs were lost in the wind"? "My nephew was playing with watercolor paint, and got some on my beard. Am I tankhaia for dying my beard?" "I was scratching my hair back, and a bunch of hairs came out. Do I need to do peshi?"
  15. You started the thread? Is your username sarbatam on that board? Maskeen ji states that a) Panji Piyares went up alone to take Amrit, not with their wives. b) According to the old maryada of Akal Takhat, you can take Amrit without your spouse. c) We have increased Brahminist thinking too much. d) You can't/shouldn't force the other person to take Amrit. Maybe one person has hunger, the other doesn't. With all due respect to Maskeen ji, I would like to say 1. It is technically true that the original Panj Piyares went up without their wives. However, that does not preclude their wives taking khande-bate da amrit later. After the first five took Amrit, they initiated 5 more. Those 5 then did the duty of initiating innumerable more. Here, if you believe the Hazur Sahib narrative, women then took kirpan da amrit. If you believe Taksali narrative, bibian took khande da amrit. Also, it should be noted that even though the original 5 were from various different places, according to Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, they were residing at Anandpur with their wives. 2. I don't really know about this. I have seen at amrit sanchars which are not by any specific jatha, but rather just "general" amrit sanchars, panj piyare require both husband and wife to be present. 3. Don't really know what to say about this. Even under SGPC maryada, an amritdhari Sikh is not allowed to eat the jooth of a non-amritdhari. Given this, how could you ever kiss your wife if you married a non-amritdhari? 4. Definitely agree that you should not force the other person. However, this in itself is an argument for not taking Amrit without your spouse. As Maskeen ji says, it's possible for one person to have a hunger, and not the other. If you take the step of taking amrit, and leaving your spouse behind, you will be creating imbalance in your marriage, a very bad idea. Everybody knows that an amritdhari Sikh is supposed to wake up in the early morning to do amrit vela. What if your husband wants to have early morning intercourse? How great will it be for your marriage if you wake up early every day, and deny your partner his desires? Or, if you say, that he wouldn't want to have sex in the early morning, but rather an hour or so after the kids have gone to bed, then will you be able to accommodate him, since you need to get to bed early in order to wake up for amrit vela? Let's say you're headed home and you get a call from your husband to pick up some liquor from the store. How great will it look for an amritdhari Sikh to be buying alcohol? Let's say you're out shopping and your partner is hungry. There's a Muslim kebab shop right where you are. Do you eat from there or not? Regardless of how you feel about meat in general, eating halal meat is definitely prohibited. If your husband had given vows of amrit, he would not mind going hungry for a while, or walking another 2 city blocks to get to a veggie restaurant. But if he hasn't, then you'll probably get into a fight, hardly good for your marriage. My point is that it's simply not practical to have two radically different rehits in one household. Not running ahead of your partner in the path of life is basically respecting your partner. If you go and take amrit without your partner, you're basically forcing the amritdhari lifestyle on your partner whether he wants it or not. So there goes "not forcing your partner". And the panj piyare that inquire about your life partner do so for very good reasons. The real answer is: if you're amritdhari, get married to an amritdhari. If you're already married, don't take amrit if your partner isn't ready. Just do paath, and ardaas for your partner.
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