ms514

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH It would be advisable to ask whoever replies to state his/her age and marital status to see if they are close enough to the subject and weigh that comment within that context. Having a physical relationship with your spouse is not banned or a kurehit. Excessive indulgence - the only real way to see if it is excessive is whether it impairs your Sikhi. If you cannot wake up at amritvela, do Naam Simran and Nitnem and further your Sikhi, then any activity being done is being excessive because it hinders Sikhi. If you are able to maintain your Sikhi and maintain status quo, then it may not be (unless it occupies your mind all day and blocks focus on Naam, Gurbani). Do you go pesh for such things - no. Again - NO. Having kids (especially younger ones - we have a few) leaves very little time for a deep relationship with your spouse. You may not have the time to embark on those long walks together or go somewhere without your children present (which again, doesn't real count as wedded couple time). Somehow a physical relationship with your spouse is being presented as an enemy towards Sikhi. It's not. Don't beat yourself up over it. Don't feel guilty, Don't end up suppressing your physical relationship (and then causing tension and problems with your spouse) - sit down and talk this through with your spouse (not that you have much free time being parents, but try) and keep the lines of communication open, and modify to progress in your Sikhi AND keep a healthy, positive married relationship. The point of the laavan were that you both progress through your life together towards Akaal Purakh. Personally the translation of Dasam Bani quoted above (which is from Chritropakhyan) is not as accurate as patshahi10's: sudh jab te ham dhari, bacan gur dae hamare, put ihe pran tone praan jab lag ghat thare, nij nari ke sath neh tum nit bodhaio par nari ki sej bhul supne hu na jayo Ever since I came of age, the Guru instructed me thus: Son, take an oath and keep it as long as there is life in you, Love thy legal wife ever and ever so much that Not even in a dream should you share the bed of other woman. Given the context it is in Chritropakhyan, which does deal with physical intimate relationships, it is advisable to keep the above verse also in mind. Guru Sahib is advising that your relationship with your spouse should be so strong that the thought of another does not enter your mind and you can focus on your Sikhi without having your mind wander to another. http://patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=393:the-history-and-compilation-of-the-dasm-granth-part-4&catid=34:english&Itemid=63

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Sangat - do you have it? Is it good and inspirational?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Which puratan Maryada? Doesn't puratan maryada support jhatka, bhang? Perhaps it supports parkash of two/three granths? Perhaps it supports Sarbloh bibek? Is there only one maryada or many? Is there really one group that has all of the "puratan maryada" unaltered by time and true to 1699? Perhaps we all follow "puratan" maryada" - different aspects and parts of it in all Jathebandian. Perhaps we are all really one thing: Gursikhs. Perhaps if we get out of our boxes once in a while and do Sangat with other Gursikhs, we will benefit more than if we stay in one box. Just some idle thoughts. I see Puratan referenced here to add weight to an argument or a practice of Sikhi. I deeply hope that all still see each other as Sikhs above anything else. Once you start to go this road of saying "mine is puratan and yours is not, we get sad arguments amongst Sikhs (what in reality, we all really are).

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Taksal Rehas Sahib, typically is referred to as complete - Sampooran. However, it would be worthy to note that Hazoori Rehas Sahib, Nihang Rehras Sahib and Nanaksar Rehras Sahib is longer. Would they then consider the Taksali Rehras Sahib as not Sampooran? Let's not get into these discussions on whose Nitnem is longer or complete: Let's actually do the Nitnem, follow it and make it a part of life. More Gurbani is always good and there is nothing stopping Sikhs from doing more - the Rehat defines the minimum - we should try to go above the minimum.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH California has a decent presence of Sikhs in most bigger cities (Los Angeles, San Francisco) and across the Central valley (from Sacramento to Fresno to Bakersfield). New Jersey - city of Carteret and surrounding areas. Richmond Hill in Queens, NY has probably the highest density of Sikhs in the U.S. Smaller clusters are in Seattle, Dallas/Houston, Indiana, Chicago, Atlanta, maybe Michigan. Western Sikhs have center in New Mexico, but also in Los Angeles. Mid West and other lesser populated areas are much less likely.

Punjab? You should have an abundance of groups to pick from. Pick any major jathebandi in the Panth, ask who their core elders are and begin to do Sangat with them. Damdami Taksal, Nanaksar, AKJ, Nihangs, etc. Pick what appeals to you and go. There are good Gursikhs in every jathebandi - find a group that appeals to you and go now.

Generally, where you located (city, state/province, country)?

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH If you are concerned with the jeevan of the sevadaars who do amrit sanchars, then you may have to take time to do sangat with different groups of sangat and see which group(s) have a strong rehatvaan jeevan full of naam, bani and seva. Those groups most likely will point to the amrit sanchar you are looking for. Otherwise, do ardaas and just go - it is not worthwhile to wait if you are truly repentant and want to get back on the path of Sikhi - who knows how many breaths you have left in you?

Pandit Keshav Das

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Find evidence in history that shows that when the Gurgaddi was transferred, parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib was also done and coconut and 5 paise were placed in front of Dasam Granth Sahib and/or Sarbloh Granth Sahib (same ceremony that was conducted to transfer Guruship from 1st to 10th Patshahi). That might do it in a convincing manner.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Please go here - https://www.sikhitothemax.org/ Then type in ਹੋਮ. Change from first letter to full word (Gurakhar). The please read. Gurbani makes it clear that havan is not in line with Gurmat.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Why do you want to be a Sikh? Is having girls and popularity more important to you than Sikhi? What is your end goal in life? Does that goal match with the aim of Sikhi or not? I think perhaps you should ask yourself these questions and deeply consider where you want to be in life. Please don't make Sikhi a shirt that you put on and take off.

Definitely need mods that can put aside their personal associations and beliefs to be fair minded and not express favoritism for any group, treating all Sikh groups fairly and stop any group from being bashed. Bring the hammer down on profanity (explicitly or other#@& stated), personal attacks and stick to the forum rules.

No biggie.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Thread started to warn about abuse...ends up with abuse.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Had same heerae at same age as you before marriage. Plenty of heerae (white hair) now. Now married and a family man. Don't worry about it. If you are healthy, have enough sleep, not too much stress, it may be genetic or just the way your body is. Don't worry about it. It's not the heerae that look bad, it is our unrealistic expectation that we will be ever youthful. The body is ever changing. Change your perception and learn to understand the natural beauty that Akaal Purakh has given you. http://dailysikhupdates.com/Amp/guru-gobind-singh-jis-response-to-a-singh-who-plucked-a-white-hair/

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Partner = unsure if that means spouse or the person with who adultery is committed. In cases of adultery, the amritdhari guilty person is responsible for going and the Punj Pyare. Adultery can be committed by single or married people. In case of an unmarried amritdhari person, the unmarried person should go definitely, without regard to the other party. If the other person who had committed adultery is also, God Forbid, amritdhari, they should also go to an amrit sanchar - not necessarily to the same amrit sanchar, but he/she is also liable. A non-amritdhari party in adultery is not liable to go to the amrit sanchar as they have not committed to being part of the Khalsa Panth and its requirements. They may be subject to their own faith's consequences for adultery, if they profess a faith. If you are married, your spouse should be in the proximity of the amrit sanchar in case he/she is summoned as well (and it would be more likely than not). While there is confidentiality, breaking that sacred commitment of Anand Karaj has consequences. All is up to Punj Pyare, but they may very well summon the spouse, inform the spouse of the adultery and take any further action deemed necessary.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Sigh, I might regret putting this up, but whatever. monatosingh, you can probably call Gurudwara Sahibs and check if they are having amrit sanchars and who will be doing the arrangements of the amrit sanchar. Most amrit sanchars are organized by a Sikh jatha, unless the Gurudwara Sahib is independent of any jathebandi and is itself, through a committee, organizing the amrit sanchar. The Sikh Rehat Maryada would probably be considered a non jathebandi affiliated Rehat. Rest of the marayadas are linked to jathebandian. There are a variety of Jathebandis in Sikhism, all of who have variations in maryada. But the purpose of the maryada is to give a Sikh the path on which to read Gurbani, do Naam Simran and follow a Gursikhi jeevan. It is not meant to be a platform of debate or argument. It is to create the environment physically, mentally, socially and spiritually to pursue Sikhi. Please don't get caught up in the "this is right Maryada, that is wrong Maryada" - become a Sikh, follow the maryada that is given to you and make a Gursikhi jeevan out of your life. Gurbani says to do Naam Simran (with every breath/continuously), Gurbani paath/vichaar (as much as possible) and internal introspection (daily or more frequently) - the Rehat is a framework to do this. Please have some faith that as you pursue Sikhi, you will be guided by Guru Sahib to the right path. If Sant Harnaam Singh Rampur Khera was a great Gursikh, he at one time did not do Paath of Jaap Sahib. Guru Sahib (who did not show their face to Sant Ji) and his Shaheed Singhs came and corrected his mistake and he started to do Jaap Sahib paath as his nitmen and got full darshan of Guru Sahib (details in their biography). Have a little faith - Guru Sahib will guide you. Let's rise a little bit above Jathebandis, taking up positions in support or against them as the one true maryada or one true represnetation of Sikhi (tell me any jatha that doesn't say they are the correct ones...) and work on seeing each other and ourselves as Sikhs of the Guru.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/downloads/Gurbani/gurbani-path-darpan.pdf - PG. 130. Paath maryada per Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh.

In short it's still not considered a Kurehit.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Every Amritdhari Sikh is given a Rehat when being given Amrit, and that Rehat outlines extramarital (not marital) relations as a Bujjar Kurehit. If you were not engaged in extramarital relations (relations before marriage or with with others during marriage), then there is no restriction that is applied to you related to your marital relations. Yes, Gurbani does state that a Sikh should engage in worship of Akaal Purakh and seek that out as the supreme bliss, but marital relations are not forbidden (how else exactly is the majority of next generation of the Khalsa supposed to be born)? Now, if marital relations get in the way of Sikhi - Rehat, Naam Simran, Gurbani, Nitnem - then you have to look long and hard at why marital relations are compromising your Sikhi. Reference from Dasam Patshah's Bani: ਸੁਧਿ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥ ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਨੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਨਿਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥

A) Start waking up at amritvela and doing paath of Nitnem (Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasad Saviyae, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib). Amritvela is defined as 3 hours before sunrise - waking up earlier if fine too. If you don't get up that time normally, work your way up by waking up 15-30 minutes earlier, than next week, 15-30 minutes earlier than that (and go to bed earlier as well) until you get there. B) Wear 5 kakkars and Dastaar (if not already wearing) at all times. But important is that you conduct yourself as a Gursikh at all times once you do this. C) Rehas Sahib in evening and Sohila Sahib before bedtime. Do paath and try to understand the meanings (same for amritvela Banis). As you understand the meanings, try to do what Gurbani is saying to do. Try to be aware of what effect Gurbani has on you - mind, body and soul. D) Read more Gurbani - get to know Guru Sahib, what Guru Sahib is saying and make sure this is for you. You will encounter MANY roadblocks just among your own Sikhs - stuck in maya, stuck in minute Rehat differences, stuck in nindya/chugli. Sikhi is about doing what Guru Sahib says. Do what Gurbani says to do, not to those who do things outside of that and yet appear to be Sikhs. Sikhi is a garden - you can either enjoy the beauty of all of the flowers in different groups or you can get focused on one flower and hat the others. Hating others for their differences will not help you and will be ultimately self-harming. Enjoy the garden that is Sikhi. You may end up liking a particular flower in this garden and want to do Sangat with them (or you may not), but always ALWAYS respect the other flowers in the garden and be able to appreciate their beauty and uniqueness. E) Find good Sangat. They are a massive source of help to guide you. One that is focused on Simran/Gurbani. Attend different programs locally that involve the youth and seem Gurmat focused. When you find one that seems focused in the right direction, continue to do Sangat with them. If you find what you need from going to different Sangats, then do that, as long as they are focused on Naam/Bani and NOT focused on stuff outlined in D. At the same time, be mindful that all are humans and make mistakes. Don't be brutal and cut off with a Sangat for a minor mistake - all make mistakes, but as a Sangat, it is duty of fellow members of Sangat to correct it, learn from it and grow. F) Ardaas - cannot stress this enough. Do Ardaas to Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh and be honest. Don't worry about doing Ardaas in English/Punjabi when it comes to asking Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh. Do that in English/Spanish/Klingon (whatever works). Do it from the heart and be honest - Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh will guide. Be innocent and ask as a child and the Guru shall take you the rest of the way. G) Have Daya on yourself and others - learn to forgive yourself and others - it get become very self defeating if you end up taking a step backward on this path (even before amrit). Get up, learn and move forward. Others are on a path - they can always slip - help them up instead of kicking them when they are down. H) Do seva at Gurudwara Sahib - wash dishes, sweep the floor, vacuum, clean shoes. Keep your ego low and keep in mind you are doing seva of the Guru's house and the Guru's Sikhs. Challenges are also abound there - people may say things - keep humble, try to see Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh in them. Sometimes seva is an exam to see how low or high your ego is. Be mindful - anger will destroy your progress very quickly. I) Try to restrain your 5 vikaars - Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar. Be aware of these. Understand what they are. Develop strategies to recognize their presence and stop them from getting out of control. Note that I am not specifying a rehat to follow and what jathebandi on purpose. Guru Sahib will guide you to what suits you best. Developing love for Gurbani/Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh, doing Sangat and getting yourself on the path of Sikhi is vastly more important than the minute details of Rehat for you right now. You will be given a Rehat designed for you at the amrit sanchar. THEN, you can follow every detail of that Rehat. Right now, developing the love, the desire and some understanding of Gurbani, Sangat, and self awareness is most important. Sorry for the long list. May Guru Sahib bless you and guide you on this highest of high paths.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Do Ardaas and go to whichever amrit sanchar appaears when you are ready (trust me, circumstances are created to accommodate this, so don't over think it). Akaal Purakh will guide you. Also, don't worry about so and so maryada - go, present yourself when you are ready, answer the question the Punj Pyare ask you and if you are found ready, you will be given Amrit. At the amrit sanchar, you will most likely be given the opportunity to ask questions, so take advantage of that. The Guru is your mother-father after amrit - what parent would not want their child to be guided correctly? Then focus on doing what was said in the amrit sanchar and don't worry about this maryada-that maryada. Guru Sahib knows who tries and guides him/her appropriately. Maryada is there to support Naam Simran, a life based on Gurbani and Gurmat, not a means to debate other people. Sant Baba Harnaam Singh Rampur Khera did not do Jaap Sahib as he found it difficult and received darshan of Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib turned away from him and he inquired one of the Gursikhs accompanying Guru Sahib why. The Gursikh replied that you don't do Jaap Sahib. Sant Harnam Singh started to do Jaap Sahib. Guru Sahib will not abandon you as long as your intention and heart are devoted and will correct you as needed either directly or indirectly. Most important is the commitment - some start to practice daily living as a Gursikh in preparation for amrit sanchar, others simply are innocent, but have the deep desire to be a Gursikh. The Guru will guide you. Most important and again stating this - don't get too caught up in this maryada vs. that maryada. Gurbani says that a Sikh should be remembering the Almighty with every breath and morsel of food. Do what Guru Sahib says and the rest will follow.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH You could, but reading Nitnem yourself has many benefits. Listening may "free you up" to do other things, which means you may end up focusing less on the Nitnem itself. There is always the risk of sleep if you are listening, tired and still. Reading aloud bestows the additional benefit of assisting in memorizing Nitnem as well. To learn better pronunciation: Sure, but the ideal state would be to go back to doing Nitnem youself after this learning is complete. Perhaps assign a time duration within which you would learn the pronunciation and then go back to doing the Nitnem yourself.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Vaisakhi 1978 - of the 13 shaheeds, 2 were from Damdami Taksal and the other 11 were from AKJ background.