MrDoaba

Interestingly enough but not surprisingly, at the top it says: ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇਵੀ ਜੀ - Hukamnama Mata Sahib Devi Ji Odd huh, where did the "Kaur" suffix come from...

It's just my opinion bro. Maybe it cannot be applied broadly but I genuinely believe in some parts of the UK it would have been different. I will accept though, this is largely, if not almost completely down to the work done by SAS and SYUK. It has had an knock on effect on the psyche of many. Dhaliwals full acceptance in the community would have been met with resistance imo. But chalo agree to disagree.

You brought up this same exact point in the thread you made a couple of weeks ago titled "What puts people off becoming Sikhs".

Okay I get the angle you're coming from. I think there's a misunderstanding. I'll try my best to explain what I meant. So from what I know, it was an open secret he was a drug dealer and into dodgy sh!te but no one suspected him of being this kind of dirty bast*rd. The point you're making is that the community has the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality and I don't disagree. But then one also has to look at that particular community and their behaviour, their passiveness, and the reasons why - another thing I know about the Hudderfield Sikh community is religiosity is low, there aren't many devout Sikhs especially amongst naujawaans. With this taken into account I would presume that they wouldn't feel any greater obligation (to out or confront) than your average private citizen minding their own business would - i.e. where there is a strong Dharmic community, strong in Sikh ethics and values...they wouldn't put up with this bulltutti, sweeping under the carpet, allowing one to abuse the Sikh image especially if one is under investigation for such a heinous crime. They would have a more innate sense of responsiblity (I should hope so anyway). By extension he did in fact have ties to the community, his grandad. But it was only after the investigation when he cultivated (the illusion) of being a fully fledged member of the qaum and a Singh...this is where community and the Gurdwara f'ed up big time. They played along, and why I do not know. It could well be what you mentioned..respect, status, Gurdwara politics etc etc. Regardless of the details, we have still taken responsibilty for this <banned word filter activated>, and in my earlier post I was trying to highlight the (general) contrast between us and the Pakistanis...how there isn't a peep even IF the perp is a completely integrated member of their quam. I'm not sticking up for the Hudds Samaaj, not by a long shot.

From what I recall about Anand Sahib...so when we do the benti (Chaupai Sahib), one realises the Divine Love within but also the prem Satguru has. The individual is assured that by coming under Satguru's Sharan and following the path of Gursikhi, all their affairs will be resolved. Through doing the Panj Baniyaan our Prem, Sharda, and Bhaavna is increased...and we should realise how forunate we are that we have actually have Gurbani and that Maharaaj has already done Kirpa. In this alone, there is a sense of Anand, but also in the wider context (given what's contained in the previous 4 Bani's and now in Anand Sahib) we again realise that Satguru can lead us to infinite bliss...Anand. Hope that makes sense. My knowledge on Rehraas Sahib is textbook, I will get back to you ji.

There must be. The question is, who is "us"? If there are others like Dhaliwal, they will most like be very distant from the Punjabi/Sikh community...individuals who have alienated themselves and generally are not part of the Samaaj. With Pakistanis you're more likely to find they are still by and large considered part of their community, still integrated...to some extent anyway. This boils down to the stark contrast in views, morals, ethics etc between ours qaums. Of course it would be very naive of me to say that everyone of this disgusting inclination who is from a Punjabi/Sikh background has nothing to do with the qaum. Sure there are some hidden, however, we are pretty good at naming and shaming (even over trivial bakwaas) so I would have to say they're more likely to be outed. We should make more efforts in weeding out this kinda of sh!t instead of directing all efforts in exposing which Prachaark kissed who.

I'm not sure if I can answer your question exactly but I remember hearing the purpose and structure of Nitnem in Katha: Japji Sahib - explains who/what Akaal Purkh is, the nature Jaap Sahib - Ustat of Akaal Purkh Tva Prasad Saviye - upon hearing the Ustat of Akaal Purkh, the greatness, one is overcome with Bairaag Chaupai Sahib - upon feeling/realising this Bairaag (and our position in this Sansaar), a Benti is needed Anand Sahib - This one is self-explanatory when the above is taken into account From this we can see how one Bani leads on to the next, and how it creates the frame of mind a Gursikh should have. Sorry I couldn't provide more detail. Gurbar Akaal!

There were non-Kesdharis/Amritdharis in 1984. Sikh Youth UK have non-kesdharis in their org. Jaggi. The guy from Rajoana TV (although he seems to have gone off the radar) Preet Kaur Gill MP. Hell, people on these here forums. Don't hear anyone complaining about the above, and these are just off the top of my head. Non-Kesdhari/Amritdhari does not equal complete and utter agyaanta, adharmic, bemukh, or someone with no prem/sharda/bhaavna.

I have heard in Katha that in many cases in order to be eligible for Amrit there was some rather stringent testing. Fair enough. You're not being realistic lol. Not every single Amritdhari has been through everything you've mentioned yet they are given full platform rights. Amritdharis are not tested in the way you're suggesting lol, or well at least not anymore. The Nihang model is not applicable in the west as even they themselves (real Nihangs) will say one cannot technically be a Nihang in the west under currrent cirumstances. Being a Nihang is a full time commitment to a specific lifestyle.

I don't really understand your post. Are you now saying only those who have gone through the Nihang style have proved their loyalities and knowledge or are you suggesting it?

How? So are you saying those who have taken Amrit have automatically proved their loyalties and knowledge of Sikhi?

This isn’t a straightforward question. And the answer IMO isn’t black and white. Firstly not every mona fits the stereotype, and not every Kesdhari/Amritdhari is a pious, saintly person either. The fact is there are non-Kesdharis in the Panth and if my memory serves me right, there always have been; I’m pretty sure there is even a separate Maryada created for such persons. On the one hand we have all seen many examples of individuals becoming Kesdhari/Amritdhari to abuse their position...everybody knows there are pakhandis who aren’t real Singh/Singhnis but simply have the garb, or, people who think by merely being Kesdhari/Amritdhari “they are da bomb”. On the other hand though, there is a basic standard of who is representative of the Khalsa and one facet of this is undoubtedly Kes. The mahanta given to Kes is great and well known. A dilemma indeed. There is so much to weigh up, many pro and cons...there is almost too much to take into account and too many variables in order to make a blanket rule or universal decision. I think some key factors in determining whether or not a non-Kesdhari can be a spokesman for Sikhi and Sikhi-related issues are, including but not limited to: subject/topic being addressed, environment/location, target audience, level of knowledge/skills. Personally I do believe in some situations they should be allowed and this decision should be based on merit. It shouldn’t be limited to being Kesdhari or not. Why turn someone away if they have Sharda/Bhaavna in Sikhi and they have a skill set which can be utilised for Panthic causes? We should learn to work together and compromise. Making a list of non-Kesdharis who have furthered the interests of the Panth and have created a positive impact on behalf of the Panth might be a good idea. Gurbar Akaal!

I believe the West Midlands is called The Black Country because of its links with coal mining...iirc.

I would be more inclined to think that it's saying "we (Sikhs) are no longer your Sepoys"...i.e. that's all the British saw/see us as; their good ol' sepoys, which was a low rank in colonial armies. Defo seems like anti-colonial sentiments.

Excellent post. Just to add to the above Guru Sahib also rolled the four stages of human life as per the Vedic Ashram System into one. The four stages being: Brahmachara (student, bachelor, celibate), Grist (householder), Vanprasth (forest dweller, transitional stage, adviser, retirement), Sanyas (renunciate). I read this quite a while back and cannot find the exact quote right now so I would be grateful if anybody could provide it. Gurbar Akaal!

Varna and Jaat (otherwise spelled as Jati) are two different things. Yes they overlap but are not explicitly the same thing.

I find it hilarious but also disheartening when Sikhs refuse to say "Diwali". Such a sad state of affairs and such a poisonous (and retarded) mindset. Hindus also celebrate Bandi Chhor...Sita Ji was released from captivity too. Nice parallel there for people to think about. Put that in your Diva and light it.

Dhan Guru Nanak Tu Hi Nirankaar! Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Hargobind Ji Maharaaj! Dhan Sri Ram Chandar Ji Maharaaj! Dhan Mata Sita Ji! Dhan Hanuman Ji! Khushian Da Jaikaara Gajaave!!! Fateh Paave!!! Nihaal Ho Jaave!!! Sat Sri Akaaaaaaluhh!!! Gurbar Akaal hii Akaaaaaaaaluhh!!!

Is it just me or is this lowkey really racialist?

Really? Is this sarcasm and has it gone over my head? ? Do you have any examples? As someone who considers himself well outside the realm of Hinduphobia even I find this a little hard to believe. On the few occasions I have actually been to a Mandir, I saw that Langar or Prasad as they call it is only prepared if 1) someone has a family event (Puja etc) 2) it is festival. Mandirs are usually not open all day either. Individuals also stick to one Mandir due to various factors - deity/samparda, linguistics, caste (all of which is actually not that different from Gurdwaras lol) but my point is they seem to be more exclusive; while there's nothing stopping people from going to any Mandir, they typically don't. The different castes (tradtionally) wouldn't eat from a caste lower than them either...not sure about now, however, many Brahmins do keep next level sucham to this day - like Taksalis. I personally do not think they ever had anything like Langar given what I know and my own experiences. I could be wrong.

You can also use oil infused with ratanjot for this, however, it works best if started before the greying has began.

I see. I will ask some ladies about this. My sisters and most of my cosuin sisters had very light chunnis like the ones you describe but I still do not recall them wearing it on the actual wedding day; could this perhaps be a regional tradition? I also get the sense that a lot of Gursikhs are moving away from many of these old tradtions whether Punjabi or Sikh ones even if they are do not contradict Sikhi because of the usual rhetoric i.e. ritualism, manmat, false information, or simply deemed unnecessary.

I was not aware of this...I haven't seen any girls wear the one from the Chunni rasam at the actual vivaah. Is this whats making a comeback then?

It's the lining in those lenghe lol. This is actually quite touching ngl. You said one from saure and one from naanke though...did you mean from daadke and naake? If not please explain. Thanks.

Proof? Sufi Muslims...even if they did have such a thing and even if was open to everybody, would not be compatible with many dietary restrictions. Yeah sure there may have been and probably are things similar to Langar but I am almost certain they are not as inclusive as Langar as started by Satguru Ji. Most religions have some concept of a communal meal but in no way, shape, or form does that mean it's "adapted and copied" lol. Langar is for anyone, anytime, irrespective of...well anything.