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jashb

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Everything posted by jashb

  1. Chawlan na mar...Taqqiya? lol... Tell me last time I tried converting you through "tricks".... huh Oh, please shut up, you incompetent nimcumpoop. I don't intend to be mean, but please, honestly, at least understand your own religion before you try to educate us on what is and what isn't. Your own scholars told me what Taqiyyah is. Given your track record, I know who I'd trust to inform me about Islam. You were practising Taqiyyah and you got pulled up for it. You were by now so confident that no one had spotted you, that you didn't think anyone would see through your bs, but dude, sorry to say, it stank from a mile off. Consider yourself thoroughly admonished, whipped, spanked et al. Be sure to be a good boy from now on. DISMISSED
  2. Yes, thank you, it was wonderfully imaginative. Spare us the tutorial. 99% of the forum knew who you were straight away; except for Mehtab Singh paji, who, evidently, had his head hidden away under a rock. Game? Are you twelve? Have some shame, boy!
  3. Yes, unfortunately, I had to read it. The article can be described as the very definition of hate speech. Pure vitriol. __________________________________________________________________ As far as I can speak for myself, I have reported the article. Credit where credit is due, to google blogspot; it is very easy to do. Simply 1. Go to google's report "Hate speech, violent or crude content on Blogger" page at https://support.google.com/blogger/answer/82111?hl=en 2. Copy the url of the article from post #1 2. Paste it into the field provided at the boutin of the page and hit submit. And that's it. I encourage everyone who reads this to do the same. It is outrageous that the said hate article is still being hosted by google on it's servers, and it will only be taken down if it receives a barrage of complaints in disgust. It only takes a few seconds to report the page so I again encourage everyone who reads this to do it. Thank you.
  4. Two of our five Takhts are in India, outside of East Panjaab. Our Tenth Master were born in East India. Our Gurus were fluent in many of the Indian languages, including hindi. Much of Gurbani has been revealed through variants of the Indian language hindi, although formed in Gurmukhi script, and not in punjabi at all. See where this is going? What does it prove? Answer: Nothing. Does it even matter? Answer: Not at all. Why? Well, because Sikhi is completely INDEPENDENT of all geographic boundaries and cultures. Sikhi cannot be tied down to one corner of the world as opposed to the other. Sikhi is a way of life; a way of thinking; a way of death; that can be applied no matter whether you are an Inewit in Alaska, or a farmer in Africa. Physical limitations don't matter to us. We are beyond them. Please don't try to limit Sikhi to one region. Please remember one thing Singh. Sikhi is NOT equivalent to panjaab. Sikhi is UNIVERSAL, janaab
  5. Nonsense. Sikhs are Sikhs; and that is that. Don't try to drag disgusting muslim punjabi culture into Sikhi. Sikhi is DISTINCT. We have our own clear, unambiguous PURE KHALSA CULTURE given to us by Dasven Patshah, Walia Do Jahaan, Sarbans Daani, Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. We can inhabit any part of the world, including any part of India, and remain unambiguously SIKH; NOT panjaabi, indian, white, brown, black, british, american, european, purple, with blue spots, or any other inconsequential label you can think of. Sikhs are SIKHS; and that's the end of the matter.
  6. Let me put in my 2 cents.. In Pakistan, "Sikh and Hindu" are often used inter-convertably...For example, I was told that our anscestors were "Sikhs and Hindus" ..Now, no one exactly know that who was the first man in our ancestory to have converted to Islam..but since they were from Punjab...they were "Sikhs and Hindus"...In other words, they were non-Muslims and became Muslims. Punjab had Hindus and Sikhs...so obviously we are from them (Sikhs and Hindus)... I am sure the guy who the OP talks about has the same idea..he won't know exactly who is ancestor (who first converted to Islam) exactly was...but he was amongst "Sikhs and Hindus"... Hope this helps. More nonsense. If you are going to stay on this forum, please at least have the decency to learn a thing or two, before offering up more bs. __________________________________________________________________ The overwhelming majority of "panjaabi's" have been muslim for over a thousand years. Even up to now; the majority of "panjaabi's" are still muslim. A thousand years ago, Sikhi had not yet even been revealed. So, we can be pretty sure that the ancestors of modern day Pakistani Muslims converted from Vedic Hinduism, which was the predominant religion of this region at the time; As even Buddhism, once dominant over the Indian plains, had ceased to exist as an independent religion in India by then. __________________________________________________________________ Sikhi, was only revealed with the parkash of Guru Jyot by pargat of Jagat Guru Dhan Dhan Sat Guru Baba Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, almost five hundred years later, in 1469 AD. "Panjaabi's" had, by now, been muslim for nearly five hundred years. During the age of the Sikh Gurus, fresh conversions of "panjaabi's" to Islam absolutely ceased. This became a huge problem for the ruling administration of the time. The mughals were initially receptive to Sikhi, which was, for their earlier rulers, an absolutely novel, refreshing and wholesomely highly moral concept. Not least because of the boon conferred on their first ruler by Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. But they changed their attitude over time, as they witnessed the fledgling faith expand right before their very own eyes. This was seen (by them, though, we know in hindsight, that their view was a paranoia of the most stupid kind), as a huge challenge to the authority of their rule. If you don't believe this, then read the sources of hand written accounts by your own mughal rulers themselves. In order to counteract the mass conversion of the Muslims and Hindusof Panjaab to Sikhi; The hitherto oppression of Hindus was temporarily ceased in Panjaab, before the rule of Aurangzeb; and Hindus were recruited into the mughal adminstration in Panjaab, and not even forced to relinquish their Hindu faith! - completely unheard of at the time; and at the same time, offensive campaigns were launched against the Sikhs in order to prevent the swelling of their numbers. This temporary "truce" conferred by the mughals on the indigenous Hindus occurred only in Panjaab, and was a specific response to the growing power of the Sikh faith. There is no doubt, that at the time, the Hindus were a weak and powerless entity, and the non-mughal muslims, also, were seen as little more than foot soldiers of the mughals; however, in spite of the individual helplessness of either community as a standalone entity, there was absolute determination on the part of the Mughals to prevent the same folks from converting to Sikhi. Thus, a sort of religious equilibrium at the time existed in Panjaab during the age of the Gurus, which prevented Islam from gaining further ground. There is no doubt, that had this age not occurred, Islam would have completely conquered the entire land of North India, and gone far beyond the current land of Pakistan. __________________________________________________________________ As Mehtab Singh has pointed out above; conversion of Sikhs to any ideology during the age of the Khalsa, which is the age that followed the age of the Gurus, is, even to date, absolutely unheard of anywhere in history. Again, please refer to the accounts of your own mughal rulers for confirmation of this. Which leaves the post-Khalsa Raj period, when the British were in power. Ironically, this is the period when the ancestors of most modern day Sikhs, including my own, embraced Sikhi (as a result of the hugely successful Singh Sabha movement). Not only would it make no sense for Sikhs to have converted out during this age, such a ludicrous stab in the dark is also rejected outright by the meticulously detailed statistics of the British Censuses carried out at the time. The British Censuses show that the numbers of Sikhs grew ten fold during this period. So when did this supposed conversion of Sikhs to Islam occur??? That leaves just 1947??? Well, most Sikhs in Pakistan were butchered at this time, and those who could get away with their life intact did. There were probably some smaller Juts who couldn't simply abandon their small land holding and move to East Panjaab, and thus committed apostacy to save their own skin. However, these numbers will be comparatively very small, and hardly representative of the Pakistan population. Now since 1947, there has been no opportunity for such conversions to occur, as Sikhs are in such tiny numbers, well below even the Hindus, in modern day Pakistan. So, I repeat; when did this supposed conversion of Sikhs to Islam occur??? Never. That is the simple and straightforward answer to this ludicrous stab in the dark. __________________________________________________________________ It is abundantly clear that the ancestors of Pakistani Muslims are North Indian, "high caste" Hindus. The Indian origin muslims have even retained their original Hindu caste status ever since they adopted Islam, which is quite ironic(!); They haven't even been able to abandon their Hindu castes for Islam; thus affirming their own origin. In this circumstance, owing to even a cursory glance at history, it is incredibly deceitful, stupid, devious, and downright insulting for Pakistani Muslims to claim Sikh ancestry. Please educate yourselves on the origin of your ancestors, and save us (Sikhs) from the tedium of having to hear such audacious and great claims from people who are too ashamed to admit their ancestors were weak and cowardly Hindus, and thus claim an association with Sikhi in order to cover up their obvious ignominy. Thank you.
  7. Okay. Let me just declare my love for Taqiyyah in a totally politically correct manner. I LOVE TAQIYYAH; I LOVE TAQIYYAH; I LOVE TAQIYYAH. (ummm.. and tequila) THANK YOU :biggrin2:
  8. We got one right here...go on, start talking :D Alright, let's at least be fair on him... Muslims aren't allowed to believe in reincarnation... At least he clearly rejects this aspect of Islam :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
  9. He had no pants on, I didn't even need to pull them down :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
  10. You shouldn't have given him the advice. The poor kid never would have worked it out otherwise.
  11. You mean your Pakistani brothers? Hmmmm, why don't you ask them on Friday? Oh thats tomorrow! :D Relax veeray, its our old buddy janaab PakistaniPunjabi01 :D , bhaijaan da sadde bina jee nai lagda :D I thought everyone already knew who he was? Seems not :biggrin2:
  12. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  13. I want to hear more about this event. Veerji - could you please provide a link or open up a new thread?
  14. Thank you paji. I fully agree. I will clarify that my post clearly refers to the MASSANDS that are responsible for this activity, who happen to belong to a certain section of our community, and actively make use (and abuse) of their perfect SIKHI SAROOP to GO UNDETECTED; Not an entire section of our community at large. __________________________________________________________________ It is well known that the people behind this trade abuse the Sikhi Saroop for their personal gain; because that's the only way they can get away with hiding behind the false pretence of "saskaar" of "birrd" Saroops. For example, take a mona. He would never be allowed to get away with the same offence, because his appearance would give him away at once. The well respected Jivan Singh and Chattar Singh of Amritsar have been exposed for mass Beadbi of this kind, through treating the sale of Gurbani as a commercial venture, some time before, and they took some real hard beatings for that. It would be difficult to insist, in view of the evidence; that the MASSANDS involved in this activity DON'T make active use and abuse of their Sikhi Saroop in order to get away with this. __________________________________________________________________ Most UK Sikhs do tend to view the Kabuli Sikhs at large through rose-tinted glasses. It is the MASSANDS that use this to their advantage. Again, I clarify; NOT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE. Thank you
  15. I humbly beg to differ on THIS, very specific point. The rapidly swift deployment of the army (it has never been deployed so quickly before!!!), by the central government, was just about as hypocritical as it gets. The Indian army was sent in by the Terrorist Indian National Congress party ruled central government of India, because Muslim lives were at stake. Muslims are well known to be the breadbasket of Congress votes in India (the traditional vote bank of the Terrorist Indian National Congress party has always been BMD; brahmin-muslim-dalit). __________________________________________________________________ It is true that there is no comparison with the 1984 Anti-Sikh massive state-organised Genocide. Evidently. Because, had these communal riots actually been organised pogroms against the Sikhs; * the army would have been stationed firmly in their barracks for three full days * hardened criminal thugs would have been released from prison specifically to murder as many Sikhs as possible in 72 hours * the police would have been warned not to interfere, instructed not to file any FIR's, but instead, told to remove legitimately held weapons and oil from the Sikhs and give them to the murderers * then the army would have been deployed in an altogethor manner; to assist with the cover-up process. Spot the difference.
  16. I must say - this one post is pure gold, and should be permanently reserved in the SikhSangat hall of fame, as it is quite possibly the greatest, most rib-tickling, perfectly idiotic statement to have ever graced this forum; and the honour is all ours. We are all deeply enriched for it. :lol2: God bless you Singh - I really laughed real hard at this post. I salute you. Thank you, from the deepest chamber of my heart!!! I promise you I will pray for you in return for making me laugh so much. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:
  17. If you truly believe, from the bottom of your heart, that the prime sources of religious and moral conduct "have been tampered with"; then you will not find solace in any major organised religion. Perhaps you can invent your own, from your vast, infinite wisdom, free of all "tampering". :D MEGA LOL - you "test" Gurbani by holding it up against your "perfect" all-knowing logic!!! LOL!!! I bow down to you, my creator. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Whatever you say - "GURU JEE"!!! :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:
  18. Acchhhha??????? Bhai Saaahb... Mainu lagda, k thahanu pehla, apna hi ghar samhaalna chahida... Lolz :lol2:
  19. Unfortunately, one of the two main reasons that the destruction of perfectly valid Saroops is happening in the first place; Is because of, what is now, a shamelessly commercial venture, that is the vicious business cycle of; * first Printing Saroops at low cost * then Selling the same Saroops at high prices to the Sangat, who, purely out of their "shardha", and their desire for Guru Jee's darshan, pay whatever, within reason, is asked of them * then obtaining Saroops that are no longer required from manmukhs and corrupt Gurdwara Committres * and finally, taking these unwanted Saroops out of circulation by destroying them under the "bahanna" (false and exaggerated pretence) of "saskaar" of "birrd" Saroops And then starting the whole vicious cycle again, in order to satisfy the immense demand for Saroops; While absolutely refusing to allow the unwanted Saroops to go, free of charge, to those who respect Maharaj; because this sort of benevolent good deed it doesn't fit in with these massands' business interests. It is deliberately in the massands' favour to maintain an artificial shortage in supply of available Saroops, in order to maintain an artificially high demand and low supply; meaning brisk sales and high prices. __________________________________________________________________ It is no secret that the urban, Indian Sikhs (such as Jivan Singh and Chattar Singh) are standing directly at the centre of this business to benefit from the guaranteed profit stream, at the total cost of mass disrespect to Guru Jee's Bani. The Kabuli Sikhs of Southall are intimately connected, by blood relation, to the urban businessmen Sikhs in the cities of East Panjaab, and Delhi, that are at the centre of this trade; so it is no surprise that they are directly responsible for this Beadbi happening. We all have to take our "wow, these Afghan Sikhs are proper Sikhs, unlike us!!!" eye-goggles off, and realise that these MIDDLEMEN are nothing less than MASSANDS that don't care about Sikhi; but just use and abuse Sikhi to make an ill-gotten profit. __________________________________________________________________ I will elaborate on the above background, and present why Beadbi activity is such a major business. 1. The Saroops cost next to nothing for the Printers to produce, as Angs are mass printed, utilising valuable economies of scale. 2. Moreover, because the Printing is a repeat process, for which the machinery has already been set up, there is very little intelligence required, forget manual labour, to produce the Saroops. [intelligence was only required to produce the Printing Press on the first place; now that this exists, that intelligence, which is costly, is no longer required.] 3. The Saroops are sold on to "Shardhavaan" Sikhs, often to NRI's, who, out of their respect, will pay whatever price, within reason, is demanded. __________________________________________________________________ As you can see; there are high gross margins possible through the sale of even one Saroop. Therefore, it is not difficult to work out that it is directly in the printer's interests to ensure a high turnover of Saroops; Rather than allowing unwanted Saroops to go, FREE OF CHARGE, to those that respect Maharaj; Thus maximising sales of Saroops, and reaping the relatively easy, and high margin, gross profits; Even if it results in the mass destruction of perfectly valid Saroops on a mass scale. __________________________________________________________________ This post wouldn't be complete if I didn't mention the second, of two main reasons, this Beadbi keeps happening. And that's really very simple; because the elder generation of Gursikhs, who wanted darshan of Maharaj, are rapidly passing away; And their second or third generation children, simply don't know what to do with the Saroops, nor do they care; So they ask the local Gurdwara to collect the Saroop, thus allowing perfectly valid Saroops to end up in the hands of these massands, allowing them to keep their vicious business cycle going. __________________________________________________________________ This is why perfectly valid Saroops are being DESTROYED; Instead of being RESTORED. As Sikhs, instead of passively taking no action, except when we all get into one big group (as that's an exception, cos it's exciting, ain't it... :biggrin2: ); And thereby letting perfectly valid Saroops fall into the hands of money hungry corrupt Gurdwara Committees and Businessmen, who wish to keep the vicious cycle of sale, destruction, sale continuous, so that they can transfer the Sangat's hard earned money into their own pockets; We absolutely need to be real PROACTIVE in rescuing Saroops from people who have no space or time for Maharaj in their life (for example, the westernised children of deceased Gursikhs), and restore these Saroops, FREE OF CHARGE; Thus ending the vicious cycle, and putting the MASSANDS out of business!!! :)
  20. It's absolutely disgusting that the destruction of perfectly valid Saroops is even happening; But worse still; that it's happening right under our noses!!! __________________________________________________________________ I want to praise the Singh's, the Sangat, and the Sikh Channel, that caught these parasites at work, and rescued the Saroops. It is clear from the warehouse owner's actions, such as; 1. Moving the Saroops off site and speeding off in a van just as a few Singh's arrived at 6.15 pm, and the warehouse owners got a whiff of the fact that the majority mass of the Sangat was on it's way 2. The time delaying tactics, using excuses to refuse permission to enter the warehouse for a full 45 minutes, by which time offensive materials could be cleared out of the way 3. The owner's son then running off as soon as the Sangat were finally allowed in, as he felt the heat would be on him for being partly responsible for the Beadbi of 22 Saroops 4. Calling the cops to forcefully remove the Sangat from the premises, as, by now, the owner had no intention of honouring his fake excuses and false promises, never mind showing his face to the Sangat so that everyone knows who is the Dusht behind this Beadbi 5. Proceeding to hurriedly hide the 22 Saroops in a tiny secret room that's impossible to find, instead of openly placing them in Sachkhand 6. The fact that the 22, so-called "birrd", Saroops, were found, upon subsequent investigation by the Sangat, not to be "birrd" at all... that; The whole episode just stinks of a MASSIVE COVER UP!!!!! __________________________________________________________________ But, notwithstanding the clear culpability of the owners of the warehouse; The management committee of Guru Nanak Darbar Gurdwara Southall is hardly innocent either. The Gurdwara committee clearly had no intention of ever opening up the mass destruction of Saroop's to the public, had the Sangat not taken action in such numbers. The owner of the warehouse was clearly caught off guard when the Sangat arrived in huge numbers, and had no other choice but to pretend to co-operate, to save his own skin, while buying enough time to cover up as much of his Beadbi as possible. Credit to the Pardhan Sahib of the Gurdwara (Harpal Singh) for being honest and open with the Sangat, unlike the owners of the warehouse; But the very fact that perfectly valid Saroops are being collected by the Gurdwara committee for destruction in India in the very first place should raise serious cause for concern!!!
  21. I fully agree with this point. Singh's need to take it up with them. We need as much parchar as we can get on this matter; across our whole community. Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale indeed enjoys a huge following, and large scale support, so any help he provides in communicating the matter to their Sangat, (which is actually, in most cases, the exact target audience!!!), will really help to get the message across because of their stature. And, hopefully, help to prevent a large chunk of future cases.
  22. Having written all that I have just said above (!!!).... on the same token, I still believe that we mustn't tar all our Indian relatives with the same brush. The cruel, cunning, deceitful behaviour that is so infamous, almost always seems to emanate from the younger siblings, or children. The fact that they are so unappreciative of their eldest siblings/parents is partly because they are so blissfully unaware of the painful sacrifices that their eldest siblings, or parents, have had to make for them, just so that they don't have to tread down the same painful path. This ignorance can have tragic consequences, for all those involved; but it can be destroyed. __________________________________________________________________ Eldest siblings, and parents, on the other hand, can really be incredibly honourable; although, of course, on the same token, you can still get unattached, greedy elder siblings too. We mustn't throw them all into the same category. I know, from my experience within my wider extended family, that it was always the eldest siblings that got screwed; but, on the other hand, they never failed to help in every possible way, and in fact, went out of their way, when any of their younger siblings needed help. __________________________________________________________________ Before anyone shouts "OFF-TOPIC!!!", I'll say it myself! But the psychology lesson is, ironically, hardly irrelevant to the main discussion. Painfully, as too many parents have discovered, albeit, far too late, is that the same changes in human behaviour that cause a child our younger sibling to rebel and betray their parents/elder siblings; Are nearly always the same changes in behaviour, that sexually groomed children display, when they are under the tight control of their oppressor; i.e. deceit, lying, becoming withdrawn, keeping themselves to themselves, aggression, tendancy to fight, greed, etc etc. I missed the Sikh Channel programme that came on Sunday, about the tell tale warning signs of sexual grooming in a child's changes in behaviour; but I'm sure the above factors would have been mentioned, if not far more.
  23. This is precisely the reason why this crap happens in the first place. __________________________________________________________________ An ordinary person can usually suss a rishtedaar out, particularly from a one-off meeting, because it it's not too hard to figure out anyone's intentions from their character and behaviour. But this is just not possible for the eldest siblings in the family, (and even to an extent, for parents), because these people have grown up always acting as the 'father' figure for their younger brothers and sisters (or children). They sacrifice so much joy and happiness from their own life, and instead work real hard, purely in order to protect and give their younger siblings/children a better life; so they don't have to go through what they did. What this life process does, to an eldest sibling (or parent), is that it blinds them to the true, and often changing, nature of their younger siblings (or children). They continue to view their younger siblings (or children) with the same affection as when the younger siblings (or children) were still young, and truly depended on them. No matter how much you try to reason with someone who is an eldest sibling (or parent), that your "laadle", "pyare" younger siblings, that used to love you, are, now, in actual fact, just using you, they will not be able to understand; Purely because the "protector" role, that is, by now, ingrained within their psyche, will not allow them to look at their younger siblings' changes in attitude and behaviour towards them with an objective eye. So this is why eldest siblings (or parents) are often unable to recognise subtle changes in behaviour, that are often the tell-tale signs that a person's attitude is changing; for example, a younger sibling's (or child's) incredibly cunning, deceitful, and downright cruel ways. Because the "purdha" (blindfold), that is fixed over their eyes, and still sees their younger siblings (or children) the way they were 20+ years ago, doesn't come off easily.
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