gurnam5

I hate to disappoint you but the truth is that ALL forms of clothing have their origins in history not mythology. The reality is that before the Moguls came to India the SiKhs simply didn't exist. It is highly likely that at the time of Guru Hargobind Ji military attire was heavily influenced by the royal courts at the time, of the Moguls and Rajputs in particular. Certainly if you look at the paintings of this period, there is remarcable similarity between the nihang bana and shastars and what the warriors were adorning at the time. One can romaticise as much as one wants, and though there will be some variations in colour and style, and it is perfectly possible that many nihang dals adopted blue, there is no real historical or theological significance in colour. Military attire needs to be fit and foremost for purpose. Much of what passes as Sikhi bana is of little practice significance in modern day warfare, where fireproofs, khakis etc are what is needed. i am not saying that todays Sikh youth should not get dressed up at weekends and romanticise the past, indeed, I have done plenty of that and have all my baba, of every colour, neatly packed away. My argunent is to see this for what itnis, a bit of fun, nothing more. Its like the old english enthusiasts I see at Warwick and Kennilworth castle's enacting old battles and generally having a good time. It is a hobby and nothing more than that. The serious busness of Sikhis is far removed, and it concerns addressing the most pressing issues facinng humanity today, of hunger, illiteracy, poverty, confict, gender violence, racism, greed and most of all saving the planet. i would like to hear what the nihangs in the blue bana's have to say and do about these issues. These are the battled for modern day warriors to fingt.

I wonder if one might take another angle on this shabad. If one assumes that God is part of our being, atma as the shabad 'man tu moth saroop[ hei apna moll pacha an' states, in essence we can think of this shabad as a internal dialogue that Guru Nanak is engaged in, a self reflection, if you like. This self dialogue then really can be understood as Nanak identifying a series of moral questions. What should I one do when faced with a powerful egotistical demagogue like Babur?What power do I have to oppose the power of the oppressor? what moral responsibility do `i have given the power dynamics? And so, perhaps what Nanak is really asking us to address our own moral conscious and to contemplate how we should respond to such an oppressor. And so when he asks god, 'didn't you feel pain and suffering' he is really asking us to reflect on how we might react when we witness suffering and oppression. It is our own ego that stops us from making a moral choice to be passive or active, to confront or not confront such oppression. I know this is a rather complicated argument, but the key is not to see waheguru as some external entity sitting in witness; This is essentially a Christian idea. In sikhi, we are all potentially god. "Sabh meh joth joth he soie, tis day chanan sabh me chanan hoe". Once we grab the concept of God in Sikhi, only then can we make sense of the greatness of Nanak's teachings. The truth is that this shabad is really about oppression, just war and the need for people of faith, gods representatives on this earth if you like, to confront both the tyrant and their own ego. The first strategy is to enable them to realise folly of their actions and the dangers of ego. Failing this, then we al have a moral duty to confront with force such oppression. As for referring back to Sanatnist Babas, this is your right but I feel all they will simply tell you what somebody has told them. For then sharda is more important than doing try khoj of the shabad. And the only way one can really do true khoj is not to be driven by our ego i.e. "I am right, you are wrong" but by a true love for gian. And so one should be is to be open to being proven wrong. So I humbly request my learned gursikh brothers and sisters to help me understand any limitations in my analysis of this shabad so that I may understand Guru Nanak's message m,ore completely. Guru Fateh Ji Dr Gurnam Singh

I totally agree with Waljinder Singh. Bhai Gurbax Singh was/is a very sincere and inspirational gurumukh. However, I have to say many of the hangers on who posed for pictures with him really have little concern for, justice, political prisoners or the Khalsa Panth. The Sant Samaj in particular are Badal's poodles and they will not do anything that he or the corrupt political class do not sanction. The reality is that our dharam is gulam; on the one hand we have the likes of K.P.S Gill, Sumedh Singh Saini, K.S Brar and Congress and BJP politicians who will gladly kill ordinary Guru Sikhs. And on the other we have the 1000's of Masands and Baba's - and I include those that claim to be Panthic - who say one thing but do another. Their true colours were recently exposed during the clashes at Patna Sahib - go against their command or desire and the serene sant quickly turns into a gunda. Look at what happens when any big baba passes away; even before the Baba has had his antam ardass the chelas begin to square up to each other and civil war ensues, each vying for the 'gadhi'. This is also why for every samparda, there are many factions and pretenders claiming to be the true custodians of the dynasty. And, like gangsters and criminal politicians, the baba's have their own personal militia's brandishing automatic weapons. Why if they are one with waheguru do they fear death? If they have such spiritual powers (Brahm Gian) why would anybody want to attack them? Of course the reality is that they fear attacks from the other gangster Baba's often over land and monetary disputes. Or in the case of Nihangs, they operate protection rackets. Sant Jarnail Singh ji had very little time for these pakandhis. He was a man of ordinary people of al faiths and none. He was not interested in personal possessions or fame. His power was in his simple devotion to the pure teachings and example of our Guru's, which was to live a spiritual, frugal life but also to fight oppression. That is why the Masands, Baba's and Corrupt Akali Politicians conspired to kill him. The same forces, had the eye of the media not been there, that would have disposed of Bhai Gurbax Singh. Indeed, Bhai Gurbax Singh in his discourses at Ambh Sahib often referred to these fifth columnists in the Sangat - he would say there are peole here who have come to support me but there are also those that want to kill him. They have little regard for Sikhi and all they can offer is ritualised practices - smagams to fill their coffers and keep the masses from realising the true causes of their misery. Yes, most of their chelas are people suffering from various physical, mental or economic troubles. And instead of seeking out professional support, which they probably can't afford, they go for the cheap Baba version. And as far as economic problems are concerned, rather than gamble their money on the promises of some Baba's ardas (equivalent of a bookie), they should really be asking why they are in poverty? And the answer is simple, it is the system and not waheguru. It is the greed of the rulers and their resident baba's. And once this is realised, then it becomes obvious, the only solution is to create common cause with other poor people to overthrow the system. And we have many examples from the Gurus pointing us tpowards such a strategy. For example, read Rattan Singh Banghu who said "gareeb ka mooh, guru ki golak". The sakhi of Guru nanak Ji and Bhai Lalo provides another examination. Dr Gurnam Singh (my real name and not some cowardly alias, which is often the trademark of the defenders of the pakandhi babas I refer to)

On the whole I seek to keep out of the kinds of petty points being made on discussions like this. As somebody that presented the show in question, I would like to reiterate my position and the position of the Sikh Channel more generally which was iterated during the programme. The position is that unlike our other two Sikh TV channels, the Sikh Channel is NOT controlled by any one of combination of Jathebandis. One has to be a complete <banned word filter activated> not to realise that Akaal is heavily influenced by Mr Badal through his proxies, namely International Panthic Dal, Harnam Dhuma and Rode. We are all aware of their non existent role in the recent campaign by Gurbax Singh Khalsa. In terms of Sangat TV, without the financial backing of FSO, SIkh Federation and Mohinder Singh it would fold tomorrow. Let me make it clear, I have no personal animosity against any of these organisations (except perhaps Dhumma and Rode who have definitely sold out to Hinditva forces now running the SGPC). Indeed, I have immense respect for Bhai Amerik Singh, Bhia Joga Singh and others. And so the SIkh Channel position is that we will support anybody and everybody that is doing something positive for the Panth. We avoit p[etty conflict and certainly we will not be dictated to by any one jathebandhi. In terms of the 30th anniversary of 1984, I think, as I saidf during the programme, we should let a 1000 flowers bloom, we should support all attempts to raise awareness of 1984, particularly amongst non Sikhs. The Sikh Channel will itself be launching a major awareness raising campaign over the next 6 months and we will be more than happy to support and publice others doing similar work. So my appeal to all my brothers and sisters is, do not dissipate your/owr energy in petty rivalries and if you cant support each other then please don't undermine either. Guru Fateh and happy new year to all. Dr Gurnam Singh

Come on guys - inject a little bit of rationality into this discussion. All I can see is a baby crying our making the kind of sounds that babies make. Indeed, one could equally argue that many new born babies utter the words wahh (guru)!!. For me the people who have an urge to sensationalise such things are weak in their faith. For them extraordinary events of 'miracles seem to be the basis of belief. The most important miracle and amazing about this video is not the baby making a sound but the very fact of its birth.

In seeking to expose 'the truth' perhaps BoleSoNihal should practice what he preaches and stop hiding behind a pseudonym and reveal his true identity. If he claims to be a true Sikh he should come into the open and declare any interests he might have, or at least reveal his own credentials for making the kinds of judgements he regularly does. The reality is that Davinder Singh Bal has pumped more money into Sikh Channel than BoleSoNihal will probably earn in a life time, be that from welfare benefits or paid work. There is no doubt that Sikh Channel has changed the course of Sikh History and without it we would by now have disintegrated into many factions and deras, as seems to be the case in Panjab. Without the Sikh Channel we would still be dictated by a small number of self appointed so called 'panthic leaders', who say one thing in public and another in private, often under the fog of anonymity. As for preventing the 'beadbi' of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, perhaps we should turn our attention to the many Derawads who abuse bani by ritualistic reading and idol worship. Bani is Guru and Guru is Bani, and Guru resides in everyones heart and soul. It is through reading bani through discerning love and intellect (budh and bebeik) that we do the try satkar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. By transforming Gurus message into a practical social spirituality that we please the Guru and not by focusing on how many rumalas we should use for wrapping or where the bed should have an electric blanket etc. ..etc...etc. If you really want to respect your Guru then do as he says - that is all Guru demands - "So Sikh Sakha Bandap he bhai jey gu ke bhaney vich avai" - he is a true sikh of the guru who accepts the will of god. And as for Aghani Sikhs, perhaps we should note that you will rarely find one with cut hair. They are Sikhs who date back to the visits of Guru Nank Dev Ji, who were blessed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who maintained their Sikhi despite persecution over the centuries. So, my appeal is to please refrain from hatred and spread love and unity on this forum. Forgive me if I have said anything wrong WGJKKWGHJF Dr Gurnam Singh

I think BolesoNihal makes some important points and Bhai Joga Singh's performance was commendable. As I have noted elsewhere, whatever you feel about Manjit Singh GK's own political views you have to give him credit for facing so much hostility with an open commitment to dialogue. He also said that whatever our political differences we should all come together as Sikhs when it came to Panthic Issues, and to their credit the Sikh Council UK agreed on this point. So, given Manjit Singh GK's rejection of a sepperatist stand point, the real question is to what extent is the Khalistan agenda a 'Panthic Issue'? I would like to offer some thoughts on this. You may think this sounds like a rather silly question given that Sikhs in most Western countries have for the past 30 years been regularly demonstrating against the Indian Government and campaigning for the creation of Khalistan. Surely, one may think, after 30 years of campaigning we all know what Khalistan represents? However, if you look at the situation more closely, in the rather empty rhetoric of the pro Khalistan groups and in particular the actual strength of support they command, I think a different picture emerges. Let us assume that there are 50,000 devout Khalistanis in the UK and a similar number in the US, Canada and the rest of Europe. This gives us a total of 200,000 supporters of Khalistan. Now let us start looking at the picture in India. In Delhi alone there are over 1 million Sikhs and in India as a whole some 22 million. We all know that the demand for Khalistan in India is minimal. We know that because election after election Sardar Simranjeet Singh Maan on a Khalistan platform has done abysmally. I accept that the low support is partly due to media blackouts, but in todays world we have social media which has sparked off revolutions in some of the poorest countries in the world, but apparently not in India; we must ask why? So the question isn't whether or not Khalistan is a good or bad idea, but that very few people have any interest in the idea. This would suggest that the advocates of Khalistan have failed to explain what they are demanding other than a hollow slogan and hatred for 'the Indian Government'. Manjit Singh's objections to Khalistan as a separatist demand were very clear. What about millions of Sikhs outside of Panjab? what about the immense sacrifice that Sikhs have and continue to make for India? And most of all in a world that is rapidly globalising and the vulnerability of minor currencies (See for example the Scottish Nationalists backtracking from replacing the pound with a separate currency) what chance can an independent Panjabi/Khalistan in such a turbulent economic climate. You see, where you are a Manjit Singh supporter or not, you must accept that he did present some reasonable arguments and he was open to others, Khalistanis or not to make their case in a democratic and reasoned way. And it is to Bhai Joga Singh's credit that his contribution on the programme was both passionate, evidence based and reasonable. Indeed, I think it is one of the best ever expositions of the gross mistreatment of Sikhs in India. But the prblem is that there is no logical connection with arguing for justice and human rights and demanding Khalistan. They ares separate issues. The issue of human rights knows no borders and even if Khalistan was ever created would still exists. I think one will need to be pretty naive to thing that Khalistan will be some heavenly place where everybody and especially Sikhs is treated with respect. Perhaps we should contrast the dreams and aspiration that Muhammed Ali Jinnah had for the new and Independent Islamic State of Pakistan and the current pathetic disunited blood stained entity. What makes one so sure that Khalistan will not end up like that? Whether one likes it or not Sikhs too have their equivalent of Sunni and Shia. ALso, if one looks at the demographics of Panjab, then unless Khalistan will be a fascist state, how can you argue for a Sikh state where nearly 50% of the people are NOT Sikhs? I know what some might be thinking, Khalistan will be a democratic state. That would be a good thing, but what then is the difference between Khalistan and the current Panjab and India; they to are notionally democratic states. Perhaps the counter argument is that Khalistan will be a truly democratic state. Well given the deficit of democratic principled amongst our own 'Panthic Jathebandhis' and the terrible mess we see in the Gurdwara elections, I am unsure we Sikhs really know what democracy is. How can one have any confidence in Khalistan when even the main jathebandhis that support Khalistan do not see eye to eye and in some cases have hatred for each other. And so, faced with the prospect of a Khalistan that could end up as another Pakistan, Palestine, Afghanistan or Iraq, then one can understand why most Sikhs in India would be very sceptical of such an idea. It is much easier for us in the west to make these demands; after all we will not have to live there! Given this scenario and given our demographic weakness, then I personably think that Manjit SIngh GK position is much more appealing, which summarised is as follows: Let us recognise our political differences, but let us also work together to defend Sikhs everywhere in the world on common issues, such as the daystar, release of political prisoners, justice for families of state sponsored terror etc. Let us fight for autonomy for Panjab and other states within a federal India along the lines of the US, Russian Federation or the EU perhaps. Let us fight those that project the Sikhs as anti-nationalists, separatists and terrorists and let us remind the rest of India and the world what brave sacrificed Sikhs have given to fight such forces from the times of the Mughal onwards. Let us exploit great opportunity to make their demands of human and civil rights in India through the very powerful DGPC which does give us access to 150 embassies in Delhi and Indian Government departments. Let us focus on education for that is the ONLY way we can save Sikhi. Let us provide support for the millions of Vanjara and Sikhighar Sikhs spread throughout india. They are our future. Let us connect and coordinate Sikh organisations across the globe so that we can use our collective power. Let us work with other political parties where it suits our electoral aims - politics is about power and there is very little you can do if you are not in power. So, for the first time in 30 years we have somebody in Manjit Singh GK who has courage, vision, determination, intellect and political knowhow and all we can do is condemn him. This is really sad and just further confirmation of the bankruptcy of ideas amongst the present generation of Khalistan advocates. We will not create Khalistan by simply believing in our own propaganda. So the choice is simple: we can spend the next 30 years spouting off hollow slogans for Khalistan and insults to what is a amorphous entity called the Union States of India or we can begin to make a coherent case for Khalistan in which the non-Sikh population of Panjab does not feel threatened. However, whatever our feelings about Khalistan, the reality is that unless we as Sikhs act together we stand no chance what so ever. And therefore I urge everybody to take this opportunity, grab the olive branch and let us adopt a practical co-operative, collective approach that Manjit Singh GK has drawn our attention to. This does not prevent us from pursuing democratically the demand for Khalistan and all the other things that Bhai Joga Singh in his contribution alluded to. Manjit Singh was correct to recall that Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale never openly demanded Khalistan and that he was politically manipulated by the Congress, just as Sarna is trying to do today. What Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale did say was that if Khalistan was offered he would not make the mistake that our leaders made in 1947. But we all know Khalistan will not ever be offered to us! The other statement of support for Khalistan that is attributed to Baba Jarnail Singh ji is the a short time before the June 1984 attack when he said that "if the army attacks the Harimandar then the foundation stone of Khalistan would be laid". One can interpret this statement in many different ways, but most crucially, one needs to take into account the context. The Sikhs were demanding the Anandpur Resolution and the Government was dragging its heels. The morchas were in full and there was talk of some kind of strategic assualt on the Harimander. In this context, one might interpret his statement as a political or even negating ploy, a simply a deterrent on the basis that he did not thing the government would move. More controversially one could argue that the other than a few bullets Harminader, remained in tact although the Akal takht as we know was completely destroyer. Last, it would be great if we could have an open, honest and civil debate about the future prospects of Sikhs in India and the relevance of Khalistan, but my worry is that the current crop of leaders neither have the capability or knowledge to mount a sustained and coherent argument that could convince not their own supporters, but the neutrals who really count. Finally, please forgive me if I have hurt anybodies feelings or said something objectionably. I speak with immense love for the Panth and total respect for the Shaheeds who have and are laying down their lives to fight tyranny and state terror. Dr Gurnam Singh (Please note I speak in a personal capacity and not for the Sikh Channel which, as noted by BoleSoniha is independent of all political parties and only interested in the truth)

As I noted during the show, whether you agree with Sardar Manjit Singh GK or not, you have to give him credit for having the courage to express his thoughts without fear or favour. Too often our leaders speak with forked tongues and will say whatever they think might be popular. I also think his rejection of a Sikh separatist agenda should not be interested as him being 'anti-panthic'. The reality is that the Khalistan agenda has to date been very poorly articulated and this should be a wake-up call for those that support the legitimate demand for Sikh independence. Indeed, it would be great if Khalistani leaders came to the SIkh Channel and presented their case in front of live a learned audience. Unless advocates of Khalistan are able to move from hollow slogans to a real vision for the emancipation of all Panjabis and ultimately all Indians, then I am afraid, there is little future for that agenda. In this programme Manjit Singh GK offered a very clear vision of how to save Sikhs and Sikhi. By drawing parallels with the Jews, he emphasised the importance of building a highly educated, globally orientated nation. He also correctly identified that the crisis of Sikhi and Sikhs, particularly in rural parts of Panjab is as much related to dramatic social changes to the social, cultural and economic fabric associated with rapid urbanisation, globalisation and new social media as it is to the failures of government. The solution therefore is tom open our eyes to such momentous changes rather than to simply blame the politicians or to constantly rely on conspiracy theories. Today, through strengthening our existing institutions such as the DSGPC and SGPC and by building new progressive institutions, the Sikhs can have a real future. Failure to do so will certainly result in the ongoing demise of a once proud people and nation. Today, we need to move away from Sikhs as sadhus - which is the image being promoted by many of the so called 'dharmic' jathebandhis, particularly those led by a baba's - but of humanitarians, scholars, scientists, ecologists, entrepreneurs, intellectuals, journalists, film makers, media personalities and peace activists. Sadly a nation of once proud Saints, Scholars, Soldiers, is being led by those who do not even have the capacity to understand not respond to my argument in any thoughtful way. When you are few in number then the only way to survive, as the Jews have demonstrated for the past 2500 years, is to focus on quality and brain power. Rather than retreat to the Gurdwaras and dears, to spend every spare minute in ritualistic meditation sealed off from the rest of the world, we now more than ever before need to recound the practical example set by Dhan Guru Nanak Ji, who confronted the 'holy men' in the temples and deras and sites of pilgrimage, the rich and the powerful. Who, from Sri Lanka in the South to Bangladesh and Sikhim in the East, from Tibbet and China in the North to Mecca, Bagdad and even Italy in the West, he embarked on his own revolutionary struggle to unite humanity, to rid us of irrational superstitious beliefs and to bring peace and co-operation to what was and remains a divided world. If you want Sikhi to survive, give up the rituals and fancy dress and put gurbani into practice. Reach out to others and share with them the living universal social spirituality for the modern age which Sikhi most definitely is. Putting aside the politics, there can be no doubt that Manjit Singh is perhaps the first and only Sikh Leader from India that has ever articulated so clearly such a vision for the future of Sikhs. It will be a tragedy if blinded by our own unquestioning political and dera affiliations we fail to see this opportunity to wake-up and sieze the moment. Dr Gurnam Singh, (Please note these comments are my personal views and not those of the Sikh Channel. I very much welcome and intelligent and critical response to my argument)

"Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa wage Guru Ji ki fateh" Like me no doubt others have been reflecting on and seeking to make sense of the unfolding of events in the Sikh world and in particular Panjab over the past 3 weeks. Things have happened so quickly since the announcement that Bhai Rajowana was to be hanged at Patiala Jail on 31st March, that we have all been reacting to events on the ground. And in the process, with a few minor exceptions, Sikhs have demonstrated a remarkable unity which we all thought simply was impossible to achieve. Indeed, political rivals across different Alkali factions and political parties have all joined cries to have the death penalty annulled and Rajowana released. Even Dusht Beant Singh's family has come out in support of sparing the life of Rajoana! So, the question one needs to answer, given that Rajowana is not the first Sikh to face the gallows- take Professor Bhuller for example – what has changed now and why has Rajowana managed to change hearts and minds where others failed? This is not an easy question to answer but it can be no coincidence that the media, and in particular the Sikh Channel and Sangst TV, have been major players in exposing the story and inspiring the masses through 'wall-to-wall' coverage over the past 3 weeks. If ever one needed a demonstration of the power of the media, then here is a prime example. And it is this important new factor that I think changes the rules of the game. In this sense our starting point is much different now than it was in 1984, when quite frankly, there was nobody out there prepared to put the Sikh case. And, we all know what happens when oppressors think nobody is watching; they do what they like. Under those conditions of kill or be killed, Sikhs had no choice but to literally fight 'fire with fire'. And whilst most of those killed were innocent Sikhs, there can be no doubt there were innocent victims on all sides leaving a legacy of mistrust and enmity. If then there was no alternative to armed resistance, then today, things are different. Satellite TV, internet, social media and mobile phones are proving to be one of the most powerful weapons available to oppressed communities throughout the world.One only needs to look a the Arab springs and the way regimes that were apparently invincible toppling like domino overnight. And, I definitely think the Rajoana case does represent the beginnings of a Panjab and ultimately India spring and Sikh Channel will play its full role in supporting those who are calling for liberation from criminal gangs masquerading as politicians and lawmen. And it is this truth that Rajoana has brought to the attention of the Panjabi masses. It is not that people didn't know this; everybody knows that the system in India and Panjab is riddled with corruption, where the guilty go free and the innocent languish in Jails. No, what Rajowana did was to dare to speak out and awaken the sleeping masses and this is only the beginning. Unless we take the struggle to the next stage, I am afraid we will lose the momentum and Bhai Rajowana will simply going the many other political prosoners that have been left to rot in India's jails. So, where do we go from here? Well now that we have the power of the media we need to consolidate and build on the platform that Sikh Channel had provided.We need to ensure that the masses across Panjab, either through the internet, youtube or satellite have access to the Sikh Channel broadcasts. We also need to confront the criminal politicians, 'lawmen' and 'god men' and make them accountable. And we should do this in a peaceful and civil way and we should definitely not stoop down the the gutter level which they would like. We also need to defend our people on the ground and in prisons. We need to have a campaign whereby ALL Sikh prisoners attached with the political violence in Panjab are given the status of political prisoners or prisoners of war. We need to as a Khalsa Panth from the Akaal Takht officially, like the IRA and others, declare an end to all military actions, which is what Rajoana indirectly has said in his letters. This will then create an opportunity for Sikhs in Panjab to spread the message of Khalistan or whatever settlement they want. We must avoid turning to violence. Bhai Rajowana quite explicitly said he wanted a peaceful mass social movement fighting for justice for Sikhs and other oppressed people. That is not to say that we don't decent ourselves, but as Guru Gobind Singh Ji explicitly instructed, we only take the sword when ALL other means have been exausted. If we are to gain the support of peace loving people throughout the world then we must reclaim the traditions of Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Teg Bhadur Ji, of Jetho dar mocha and the many other moments in our history where we have sought dialogue as a means to defeat the enemy. We must In terms of the question of Khalistan, personally, I am neither for or against it. At a Sikh I have a universalist outlook on life, and generally speaking I abhor any kind of nationalism and religious fundementalism, be it Hindu right wing Hindutva RSS, or or anybody else. I am however, very interested in discussing how we can develop a system of governance in Panjab (and ultimately the rest of India) built on the principles of Gurmat and the Khalsa ideology. A country where there is no racial, religious, gender and caste discrimination. A classless society where corruption has no place, where fake babas face the full force of the law, where education is given a priority and where Panjabis once again take their place as defenders of the downtrodden across India and further afield and where the Panjab, once the bread basket of India and the most advanced state is returned to its rightful status as a progressive force for change in the whole region. I believe that by doing such we will have de-facto created Khalistan, in action if not in word. And if we can prove that such a system based on Khalsa ideology can work for Panjabi's then others will also demand such a system. After all all systems of governance throughout human history were based on one ideology or another. Within a matter of 50 years during the early part of the 20th Century we saw a small pamphlet called the 'Communist Manifesto' written by Karl Marx and Frederick Engles inspiring revolutions thoughout the world. Alas, they failed because of flaws in the ideology. But I believe what we have with the teachings and actions of our Guru is a far superior ideology. If the suffering of millions of people under communism led to the ultimate obliteration of communism, then capitalism is also in crisis. Today we have rampant corruption across the capitalist world, including India, and we are seeing people rising up against a system on the verge of bankruptcy. The iron is hot and now is the opportunity for Sikhs to make their claim to an alternative system. If you read Bhai Balwant Singh Rajowana's letters very carefully, what you get is a yearning for a better world, a world where there is true justice, where human life has some value, where the true principles and values of Sikhism are projected through the sovereign and untainted institution of Akaal Takht. Rajowana has done his duty, the question now is are we prepared to take on the challenge? Only time will tell, but I for one am very hopeful. Not only has the Sikh Quom woken-up, it has also grown-up. Along with our five K's we now have to be adopt the five C's in taking our struggle forward, namely: creativity, caring, collective, courageous and clever. "Wahe guru Ji Ka Khalsa whahe guru ji ki fateh" Dr Gurnam Singh Sikh Channel Presenter.

Not sure about how intelligent dogs are but considering the original question posted by 'scooter' it is save to assert that they are certainly more intelligent than some of the people who post on this forum. Whilst some may think that seeking out dogs that do 'math tek' at Gurdwaras in Delhi might appear to be evidence of deep pitr for Sikhi, other would contend that it reveals a bankruptcy of faith and belief. If you believe that sat guru is everywhere, within our hears, in the environment around us and indeed manifest in the whole of the cosmos, then you would not need to find evidence in 'extraordinary' places and things. Seeking out evidence for god is as far away from sehaj avastha as one can get. Mahar ji says 'so satgur merry naal hey, jithey kithey menoo leya shadaee'

I don't know much about the case in question but I am very concerned by the hate language being exprssed by certain individuals on this discussion forum. With such hatred I cannot see how Genie could even claim to be a Sikh, let alone a 'true Sikh'. Please don't forget the words we say each time we do ardas 'Nanak naam chgardi kala terey baney sarbat da bhalla'. ALso, in gurbani is says 'hum nhe changay bura nhe koe'. I could provide many more quotes, but we must be careful to go down the path that the only people who deserve our compassion are those that follow exactly our own particular life style. If that were the case, then god help the many millions of Sikhs who don't subscribe to the very narrow and fascistic interpretation of Sikhi that people like Genie adopt. It is the same mentality that is held by Muslim, Christian, Hindu and Jewish fundamentalists, the BNP and EDL.

Please note that we will be debating the grooming issues and child protection issues on Panth Time this Friday 17th Feb 8-10 pm live at Gurudwara Baba Zorawar Singh ji Baba Fateh Singh ji in Milton keynes. Please come along if you are close by; if not watch on Sikh Channel and spread the message. Dr Gurnam Singh

Please note that we will discuss this 'adesh' on Panth Time this Friday 17th Feb 8-10 pm live at Gurudwara Baba Zorawar Singh ji Baba Fateh Singh ji in Milton keynes. Please come along if you are close by; if not watch on Sikh Channel and spread the message. Dr Gurnam Singh, Sikh Channel.

I think West London Singh is correct, Sikhi is growing at a rapid pace in Italy. There are some Gurdwara's, such as the Singh Sabha in Flero which has a regular sangat of 10,000 and can have over 25,000 sangat on a major festival. I have seen this myself. Also, whilst there are probably arroud 80-100,000 officially registered, there are perhaps a similar number that are not. My estimate is that there are about 150,000 Sikhs and many are quite young, so you can expect a high birth rate. So, my prediction is that within the next 20 years, this figure may well double and Italy will certainly rival Canada, UK and UK as major centres of Sikh migration.

Wherever I go I sense a desire from Gur Sikhs that we need a new leader like Sant Jarnail Singh and that is the only way we can recover our self esteem and dignity. That his loss has left a gaping hole yet to be filled by somebody with the same kind of charisma, courage and insight. Yes, Sant Jarnail Singh was a true lion who helped to awaken a sleeping nation, but times have moved on and we need to look ahead not backwards. I hear people talk about the failings of our leadership in Panjab. Well, that is not surprising since the only reason somebody becomes a political leader in Panjab or India is to line their pockets. This is true in other parts of the world as well. Look at Tony Blair; there was a documentary recently indicating that he has amassed a fortune in excess of £10 million since leaving office. I guess the big difference in UK politicians compared to those in Panjab and Indian is that the former make their money after leaving office whilst the latter begin the day they take up office. I think what this state of affairs reveals something much deeper problem than simply the lack of a ‘good’ leader; it highlights how flawed the so-called parliamentary democratic system has become. In a media dominated world, the people that control the media get elected and around the world, politicians if not directly owning the media (such as Badal and Berlusconi) many have unwritten agreements with political parties. And so it is very difficult for the ordinary person to have a real say and for this reason, we need to develop a completely new model. We need to connect the Sikh struggle for human rights, justice, peace and dignity in Panjab with wider struggles taking place throughout the world against the global economic system that enables the Badal’s of this world to amass so much wealth. I am not suggesting we all become communists. To the contrary, communism has demonstrated that it too was an inhumane system that resulted in the deaths of millions and the destruction of civil society and suppression of faith. So, I say we reject both the current global neo liberal capitalist order that has led to huge disparities in wealth within and between countries as well as rejecting the old style Marxist/Leninist dogma which so brutalised whole populations. What we need to do is articulate a new vision for humanity based on the principles of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. For this we need Sikh scholars, intellectuals, journalists and activists to work together to present the ideas our Gurus gave us in ways that appear relevant to the world today. It is not enough to recount stories from the past; we need to link the past to the present. And therefore, like we have done in the past, we also need to engage in grass roots movements who are also asking the same questions as ordinary Sikhs in India and throughout the world. Questions of poverty, women’s rights, children’s rights, saving the environment, minority rights and so on. The Sikh nation has suffered many tragedies during its short life span of some 500 years. But the greatests tragedy I feel is is that we have not been able to share with humanity the very thing that the Gurus implored us to do; the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Why did Baba Guru Nanak Ji travel the four corners of the his world if it was not to spread the message? If simple meditation was the answer to all our problems, then why did Guru Har gobind ji establish the Akaal Takh and fight liberation wars. If Sikhi was only for the Gurdwara, then what was the need for Guru Tegh Bhadur Ji give his head at the court of the Mogul Emperor Aurangzeb? And why did Guru Gobind create the Khalsa if it was not to challenge the prevailing Bramanical racist caste system that system that sought to divide human beings. “Khalsa meri Jaat ar Paat” I feel our time has come to clarify the relevance of Sikhi in today’s world and the struggles that humanity is facing. At a time when millions of people are rejecting the prevailing ideologies, we have a great opportunity to fill the vacuum with the wonderful teachings of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji manifest in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the lives of our 10 Gurus. If you don’t believe me have a listen to a recent speech given by Professor Akhbar Ahmed, the former Pakistani Ambassador to the UK in Washington DC http://www.sikhnet.com/news/pak-ambassador-akbar-ahmed-calls-guru-nanak-prince-interfaith-dialogue-appeals-healing-process He says that “Guru Nanak gave us as a framework to be able to meditate on the beauty of God and beauty of unity; to be householders and yet think of Divinity; and finally to live as a community and to share our wealth. These are wonderful principles for any society. " Coming from such a towering intellect and non Sikh speaks volumes. So, what are our next steps? Here are some of my personal suggestions: 1. Stop looking for a leader – leaders are not found, they emerge through action and there are plenty of people with calibre out there who will emerge when their time comes. 2. Stop looking to the Panjab for all the answers – Panjab is our homeland and we can never forget our roots, but it only represents a tiny part of the globe and I am sure Guru Nanak intended Sikhi for the whole of humanity. 3. Welcome Sikh intellectuals with open arms – all the major faith leaders except the Sikhs are very well educated. But we have almost made it a virtue in appointing ill educated jathedars and then we expect them to make pronouncements on the most complex of ethical and social issues. We are setting them up to fail, which suggests they are only appointed to act as puppets and fall guys for others. 4. Develop and support progressive Sikh youth movements and organisations that are seeking to connect Sikhs and Sikhi to wider concerns. Examples that come to mind are Khalsa Aid, United Sikhs, Sikh Doctors Association, BoSS. 5. Acknowledge the fact that within our own fold we have some individuals and groups that display hatred towards others and seek to challenge, isolate and the anti Sikh views they espouse. 6. Support the Sikh media – We are blessed with two wonderful Sikh TV Channels. They must not be allowed to fail. In a very short time they have truly created a revolution and have inspired many of us to come forward – so as well as financial support, become involved in the various programmes and programme making. 7. See the development of the Sikh Council UK and the recent Summit in Paris to establish a European Council of Sikhs as a historic opportunity to create structures for Sikhs to come together despite any differences we may hold. 8. We need to rediscover out duty to serve with the kind of spirit displayed by Bhai Kanayia. Guru Ji says ‘Na ko Beri nahi begana’.’ I have no enemies, for me nobody is a stranger’. 9. We need to rediscover the role and place of the Gurdwara, not as a place to perform rituals but as places of learning, sanctuary, healing and dialogue. 10. We need to invest in and create our own home grown ginais, kirtanis and parcharaks that are bi/multi lingual, who can related gurbani to the present day. I trust you find my reflections to be helpful, but even if you don’t, can I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to read what I have written. And if you feel I have made mistakes then please forgive me. Panth da Daas Gurnam Singh