californiasardar1

On 1/22/2024 at 4:10 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

If anyone is following the news about the London School headteacher Katherine Birbalsingh having to ban prayers in her school because of the intimidation by muslim pupils the and all the muslims who pray on the street, particularly during the Gaza protests.

Their prayers seem to be quite disruptive 

We have our morning prayers, Rehra and Sohila path and our prayers never seem to be disruptive.

I guarantee that the quality and quantity of our prayers is greater than theirs 

Good to know that our morning prayers don't disrupt your morning shaving routine.

It's sad.

9 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

When survival is at stake, all the virtue signalling goes out of the window.

At that moment of time, living by higher values gets you slaughtered. For dharma to prevail adharmic things have to be done.

Do what needs to be done, ensure your survival and then you can self reflect in all the bad things you had to do, and feel shame. 

If you want to ensure that you want to live by higher values, you need to put the mechanisms in place like not having adharmi people and ideologies to take precedence in your society.

 

Refraining from killing innocent people and raping women is not "virtue signalling." What is the purpose of massacring innocent people who are taking a train to Pakistan? What threat do they pose? How is killing people who are already on their way out of country necessary to ensure your survival?

If you think it is okay to kill innocent people who pose no threat to you, then you don't believe in Sikhi. If you think it is okay to kill children or rape women under any circumstances, then you don't believe in Sikhi. It is not that complicated.

10 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Maybe the people who committed such acts saw members of their family killed by muslims or heard of them. It is human nature. You have to remember the muslims also did the same to us. There were also more of them in East Punjab compared to the number of Sikhs in West Punjab so it was a case of a larger group. Of people being in the wrong place in the wrong time. 

Most of the businesses and economy in Lahore was run by Hindus but that was not enough as it was about 65% Muslim. As you mentioned before on this thread Sikhs have little influence anywhere. Our population is miniscule in South Asia and the world, we're also not clever like the Jews. We should be thankful that we have a state that has a Sikh majority so at least we get to have a Chief Minister. 

Having family members killed by a certain group of people does not justify killing innocent people who belong to that same group. It may be human nature to seek revenge against innocent people, but anyone who is truly interested in following the path of Sikhi needs to be above that.

In many parts of West Punjab, Sikhs owned a majority of the agricultural land. Sikhs also could point to historic sites and Gurdwaras in West Punjab. Sikhs have little influence now, but they had built up a lot of goodwill with the British in the decades leading up to 1947. Sikhs were in a much stronger position then. If Sikhs had capable leaders who could take advantage of that goodwill and make the case for special consideration for Sikhs (beyond demographics), as was given to Jews, Sikhs could have gotten more.

2 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

As I said, demographics matter, in fact we got the Gurdaspur district which was Muslim majority. I don't think Pakistanis got any Sikh/Hindu majority area. Just because we ruled a lot of greater Punjab for 50 years doesn't mean the whole of it belongs to us. Using that logic the muslims could say they should still be ruling over most of India. 

Punjab does not equal Sikhi. 

Regarding the violence, the muslims were doing the same to us, it was <banned word filter activated> for tat and it was the muslims who started it in Rawalpindi and they also got up to similar shenanigans on the other side of India in Calcutta. 

A skilled statesman would have been able to make a case for more of Punjab going to India based on factors aside from population.

Anyone who follows principles of Sikhi would understand that committing violent acts against innocent, defenseless people is shameful. What is the purpose of slaughtering Muslims who are ON A TRAIN HEADED TOWARDS PAKISTAN? They were already leaving.

2 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

What was the alternative? Live side by side with muslims who are the majority in the state? The chief minister of Punjab would always be a Muslim and so would the head of police. Do you want to hear the Muslim call to prayer 5 times a day? Do you want their men perving on your female relatives?

It's one thing living next to Muslims in the British Raj era where everyone was against the British rule. After the era of kings and emperors demographics count and the muslims heavily outnumbered us in Punjab and with their breeding habits the gap would be even more today. Not to mention post 9/11 Pakistanis have gotten even more fundamental with bombs going off left right and centre in their cities, do you want that happening in Amritsar and Ludhiana? 

The Hindus still regret letting the muslims stay behind in large numbers and their numbers are forever growing. We at least nipped the problem in the bud.

The muslims started the violence with the Rawalpindi massacre on us and we just did the same back to them with extra. Compare that with the Bengali Hindus who got massacred in Noakali and never did a similar attack back, that's why their West Bengali state is 27% muslim today and why Hindus in Bangladesh have gone from around 22% in 1970 to a paltry 8% today.

So I don't condone any of the violence but if you don't retaliate when something bad is done to you or your community you just present yourself as being weak and that is what muslims take advantage of. They are a community that likes to test the waters, they push and push and see if there is any reaction from the other community, if not they show even more bravado. That's what happened when the Rohingyas were preying on Buddhist Burmese women and also when the muslims burnt the train in Gujarat, the Buddhists and Hindus then went berserk on them. 

 

The alternative would not have been to stay in Pakistan. The alternative would have been to have skillful, thoughtful, capable leaders who cold have preserved a larger chunk of Punjab to stay in India. The Sikhs did not have statesmen of the same caliber as Jinnah and Nehru.

I already recognized that the Muslims in East Punjab had to be driven out somehow. There was no need to massacre Muslims who were ALREADY trying to leave, there was no need to kill children, and there was no need to rape women. It is extremely shameful that Sikhs committed such crimes.

6 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

As mentioned muslims only understand savagery done back to them. That's why we were so successful back in 1947 despite being in much smaller numbers. We outsavaged them. 

Just remember what the Taliban did to Afghan Sikhs. 

"Successful"?

I don't think that is the right word to describe a sad episode in which:

- A large proportion Sikhs were displaced

- Sikhs went from a wealthy substantial minority who were major players in a massive province to a less wealthy barely-majority in a tiny, truncated state

- The Sikh community ended up completely separated from many important historical sites and Gurdwaras

I also don't think "outsavaging" Muslims is something to be celebrated. Forcing people to leave when your people on the other side the border have been forced to leave is one thing. It can be justified in some sense as an exchange of population/property that was forced on us and was the only viable option. Coldly murdering people who were ALREADY leaving to Pakistan, killing children, raping women, etc. That is extremely shameful, plain and simple.

21 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

That's the exact attitude that extremist muslims want. They want a divided non muslim world. A world that looks the other way when things like this happene. We need more non muslim unity as that is the only way we can defeat this extremist ideology by supporting all non muslims when they are being driven out of their own homeland. There's so many countries being threatened by these people. We are only going tk be next on the list. 

Everytime a non muslim is attacked by the extremist its a direct attack on us all. That's how we should see it. Instead of thinking I'm not getting involved. We don't need to do big public statements. We can do this support covertly also. Hence why there's needs to be a global non muslim defence force or something along those lines. Ready to defend the non muslims rights and freedoms. 

If the world needs to unite against some sort of common enemy, it really does not matter whether or not Sikhs are a part of that. If the rest of the world can't win without Sikhs, they will not win with Sikhs. The Sikh community is tiny, has no organization, no clout, no influence, nothing. If you guys occasionally stepped foot outside of Southall or Wolverhampton or Brampton, you would realize that.

Frankly, I am disgusted by both sides and I am tired of so much of the media's attention being focused on a relatively tiny number of people fighting over a tiny sliver of land.

I wish Sikhs would stay out of these issues. We have nothing to gain by sticking our necks out when: 1) neither side is in the right, and 2) neither side cares about our issues.

3 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

Not if it ever happens it WILL.. 5-10 yrs. My moms pind last remaining generation of my nana nani and gone young middle age are also dead or abroad. You have these huge kothis built empty families residing in the West but their kids are not interested mona too. All outsiders bhaiya UP army wives taken over non jatts . Rather live loner too out there because too much toxicity and fakers larping gangster killing you for zameen drugs etc. Generally speaking in Canada/UK Panjabi populated areas Surry Brampton have bad rep. Always in news wrong things. Apne killing apne. No wander any chance get Sikhs move to gora areas.

Please learn how to write coherently.

15 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

If that ever happens Sikhs will easily be a minority in Punjab. Jatts are 60% of our population I believe. 

Sure. But it might be a situation where we take a step back to eventually take two or three steps forward.

In any case, it seems to be a matter of "when" rather than "if." Jatt families in India seem to have few children these days, a large proportion of the young people are in foreign countries, and most of the young people who are still in Punjab dream of going to a foreign country (even if they can't tell you the first thing about the foreign countries they obsess over).

I actually think that the exodus of Sikhs from Punjab may be a blessing it disguise. It may have the unintended consequence of "de-jatt-ifying" Sikhi.

Maybe if jatts become a small enough proportion of Punjabi Sikhs, they will no longer dominate, and it will open the door for a more open, diverse Sikh community that is unconstrained by tribal identities and has a real potential for growth.

- Agriculture is no longer the dominant industry in Punjab. The dominant industry is surely IELTS test prep. Seriously, everywhere I looked, in every village or town or roadside, there were advertisements or offices for services to assist with IELTS prep, obtaining a study visa, etc. It is impossible to overstate how obsessed the typical Punjabi is with going abroad.

- It is extremely rare to come across a Sikh man with an untrimmed beard that is not gray or white. Basically everywhere I went, I was the only person with an untrimmed beard who wasn't a bajurg.

- While I expected the lack of young Singhs based on my last visit, this time I noticed a conspicuous lack of young people in general. Pinds were filled with big, mostly empty houses (in most cases, nicer houses than I will ever be able to afford in America) with a couple of elderly people living in them. Mind you, I am not talking about pinds near Jalandhar whose residents have been going abroad for a century. I am talking about pinds in the "backwards" parts of southern Malwa. Also, I was at a (smallish) wedding reception, and when I glanced at the dance floor, I noticed that it was 95% aunties in their 50s and 60s.

- To the extent that you still see a fair number of paghs around, it comes down to two things: 1) there are a lot more old people than there are young people, and 2) the bhaiyas working in the fields like to keep their heads covered.

- Today's Punjabis speak a different language than my parents. They use different kinds of Punjabi/Hindi words for certain things than my parents did, and they constantly insert English words into Punjabi sentences (even when there are perfectly good Punjabi words they could use). They also abuse English words. For example, if they say someone easily gets "mixed-up," they don't mean to say that they get easily confused. They mean that that person "mixes well" socially with others. They also say things in cringe-worthy ways like: "tension naa lai."

- Somehow, every person I came across who remotely knew of my family also knew I was unmarried and knew of some kuri who was interested in acquiring a green card ... I mean, interested in marrying me.

On 5/29/2023 at 4:01 PM, dallysingh101 said:

How can you blame Redoptics for going Columbian when this is the state of apneean???

exempts turban-wearing Sikh motorcyclists from wearing helmets.

You may also want to see how your beloved right-wing bedfellows feel about various other exemptions that have been granted to Sikhs. Maybe you will get a reality check.

16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I get Ranjeet's and Ipledgeblue's point, and take it on board. I'd still see for myself though. 

That being said, that Kau89r8 sister still urgently needs to find something that healthily resonates with her on the Sikhi front, and find alternative perspectives from skewed social media sources. Some people seem more susceptible to being indoctrinated by social media than others, and that's dangerous in this day and age. 

 

  

She urgently needs to learn how to read and write.

Very interesting thread!

You are completely detached from reality.

Log off the internet, put away your phone, and go outside or read a book.

9 minutes ago, Dsinghd said:

The UK was invaded by Anglos, Vikings, Saxons. It’s a island after all.

Up north they are generally taller. I agree Scotland is near to them.

Yeah, I know the history of the UK. But those invasions and Britain's island status does not explain why the people are so ugly.

Scottish people are ugly too, but they are friendlier than English people, and Scotland is a much nicer place than Northern England.

Go to France or the Netherlands or Germany or basically any country in continental Europe and the people look MUCH better than the English/Scottish/Irish.

9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

He's hiding it, but I gather it's some northern backward cesspit. Gora are shyte generally in england, but those ones up north are even shyter than the already very low standard of these people. 

Occasionally you encounter some of these when working on sites in the south, they are backwards and don't even try and hide their racism. It's like they've not made some evolutionary jump others have. And their accents sound horrific. I guess when I think about it, they are like the UK's equivalent of Jullunderys? 

I was in Manchester a few times, and it was depressing as hell. It also had perhaps the ugliest people I have ever seen in my life. I really don't understand why English people look so much worse than other Europeans. Maybe they have a high inbreeding coefficient or something.

The nice thing about going north in the UK is that you eventually end up in Scotland.

Funny that you are taking a swipe at people from Jalandhar. You must be the only Punjabi in the UK not from the doaba area.

17 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Steady on mate. I think he lives in deepest, darkest northern monkey territory. That backwards, shytehole would be off putting for even third world people.......phew  

Where does he live?

7 minutes ago, redoptics2013 said:

She is a mature student,  from here , but she goes back to Columbia every end of term, I have known her on and off past two years and past 8 months I have been seeing her so to speak.

Okay, I was concerned it was someone you had met online and had only corresponded with from afar. If you have known her for so long in "real life" then you probably have a solid idea of what you are getting into. I don't know if your situation belongs in the "passport bro" category .

I presume you have been able to accurately gauge whether her interest in Sikhi is genuine. Was she previously a practicing Catholic? Or was she effectively atheist or agnostic?

How old is she? What is her past in terms of relationships (divorced, never married, etc.)?

It would be interesting to know how you met the Colombian girl and how long you have been corresponding.

1 hour ago, redoptics2013 said:

What, ifs, maybes,  I'm not a child I do know what could happen ffs

Veer Ji, we all know you are not a child. But at least I know how easy it can be to overlook the downside of something new in your life that makes you feel good. We just don't want you to get hurt. At the same time, I don't want to agitate you, and if our comments are doing that I will stop.

1 hour ago, redoptics2013 said:

True but same in Punjab, just got to take a risk, see what hukaam is about right?

You are right that it is the same with women from Punjab.

But at least with a Sikh woman from Punjab, there are some cultural similarities and she will be nominally Sikh.

Serious question: why are you not concerned about the cultural and religious differences between you and the Colombian woman? I am curious.

I understand how refreshing it can feel to step into a new world seemingly filled with all kinds of possibilities and free of the restrictions and baggage of the world you are used to. But the novelty will wear off, and you will be left to deal with the reality of some important differences. Please think about this carefully bro.