Jonny101

For us using or not using instruments is not even an issue. One can do kirtan with or without an instrument since using an instrument is not a sin in God's eyes. Our Gurus did not impose a dogma based on superstition that prevents us from using instruments. Some of the things in Islam are undeniably superstitious like hating instruments or even dogs. It just doesn't make any sense

Islamic and Judaic monotheistic is not the same. Jews don't pray to their prophets as Muslims do to Mohammed which by definition is Shirk. Neither have Jews given a semi divine status to their prophets as Muslims have to Mohammed. Hadith reports testify how Muslims would claim that the sweat of Mohammad smelled better than scent and drinking his holy blood and urine would save them from hell fire. That means he had a god man like body like some Hindu devta. Jews never claimed any of that for their prophets. As for what is monotheism, we don't believe in Islamic definition of monotheism and neither should you expect us to look at monotheism from the Islamic lense. We have our own definition of "Ik Oankaar".

But I fail to understand what is so objectionable to using instruments while singing? And if Hindus do use instruments while singing hymns that just proves they have one bonus point over Islamic dogma which due to superstition prevents you from using musical instruments, it's like Mohammad musically handicapped you guys from start.

This is how it all starts. Just as homosexuality was slowly normalized over the decades starting off with suggestions and hints. They then give lectures and write articles to create sympathy until finally they get equality. They are now in the process of normalizing pedophilia and even incest, probably this will all occur in our lifetime. This is Ghor Kalyug. Unthinkable things will become normalized. These paapis don't just want equality they want privilege and domination. What is the need for them to indoctrinate little children from a young age? They expose little children to naked men and trannies in gay pride parades and portray it as something heroic like witnessing Rosa Parks sitting in a bus.

I'm sure Azan would have been sung in Indian Ragas instead of being sung in pre Islamic pagan style yodel had Mohammad been born in India and started his religion in South Asia instead of Arabia. But Azan is singing none the less, just different style of singing. As for instruments, kirtan can be done with or without an instrument. We don't have any superstitions preventing us from using instruments to sing praises of God like Islam has.

How is kirtan a Hindu concept? Christians sing in church is that taken from Hinduism? Muslims also sing/yodel their Azan is that also taken from Hinduism?

That is one of my favorite Nitnem steeks. I wish some Nihang Singh would also write an entire steek of Sri Sarbloh Granth. Although Katha is available online but steek is also needed.

Sat1 ji, I don't see what kuldip ji said that you would consider sexist. A Gurdwara is not a place for inappropriate dressing sense. Bani has made it clear that a woman who is proud of her body and shows off her body by dressing inappropriately is a Gavaar since that body will one day be turned to ash. This is not sexist, it is the truth. Does it make sense to wear skintight leggings in a Gurdwara and matha tek in front of the congregation? Your concept of equality between the sexes is that a woman should be able to do all the things (good or bad) that a man does and in this way you justify women dressing inappropriately. This is post modern nihilism of the west. We don't subscribe to this line of thinking. A Sikh lives according to Maryadha. The ideal dress for a Sikh is Bana, but if one wears something other than Bana it should not be inappropriate.

You see Kirtan as a Hindu practice but the practice of Azan itself is taken from the pre Islamic Pagans like many other Islamic practices.

Sikhi shares some universal truths that are also known to other religions. Sharing these truths does not mean a religion is taking anything from another religion. Going by your logic Islam took some things from Judaism, Christianity and mixed it with Arab paganism at least this is how an outsider would see it

I don't know what you mean by its our "natural position" but we are neither Muslim nor Christian so that naturally makes us neutral between the 2 Abrahamic rivals. Seeing this from a neutral position David has raised some valid points in regards to Muslims praying to Mohammed. He even cites Islamic sources like Hadiths to make his point. How do you explain this dilemma? When you pray to Mohammad not only is it Shirk but also contradicts your concept of monotheism. When Muslims pray to Mohammed that makes him into a God man similar to Jesus but Muslims just don't want to admit this it seems for whatever reason.

Pretty much all the religions that claim to be monotheistic say they believe in one God. But they all define that concept of 1 God differently. You interpret it according to Islam and expect us non Muslims to interpret according to Islamic paradigms, that's not going to happen. If I were you I wouldn't have posted that debate. Hijab just embarrassed himself with loud bolstering. He never addressed any of David's points and replies with childish remarks, spits and going off topic. Do you also pray to Mohammad like 1.6 billion Muslims do worldwide? Do you believe he is dead or do you believe he can hear your prayers? Are you slafi, deobandi or brelvi?

Sikhism is monotheistic but we don't believe in the Islamic paradigm of what defines monotheism. Islam as Muhammad created it is basically Judaism mixed with Arab paganism. Even within Islam there is so much differences of opinion. For example can Muhammad listen to the prayers of Muslims? According to the wahabis he can't since he's dead but brelvis believe he can hear the prayers of Muslims. Praying to Mohammed is a part of the Islamic faith since Muhammad is a divine figure which according to Islam is considered Shirk but this they don't want to admit. David Wood elaborates on this dilemma by citing Islamic sources

Problem is when you try to equate a sexual deviancy with racial/religious equality. Being of a different race or religion is not a paap but indulging in homosexual acts is a Paap which can take you to Nark just like incest and pedophilia which are also sexual deviancies. Just think if tomorrow incest became part of the new pop culture of the west then the same arguments will be used to normalize that lifestyle and impose it on the rest of society. We can already see how this lgbtq madness is getting out of hand where they are indoctrinating little children through sex Ed. Little children are being exposed to these sickos In what parallel universe is this OK?

Thanks for sharing this. I was looking for this for a while but didn't know where to find it. This steek is done by a Nihang Singh.

Sardar Ajmer Singh ji is one of the best scholars we have today. His research is always an eye opener. I have listened to all his lectures on YouTube and bought all his books. His research on the Gadar party and Kartar Singh Sarabha is ground breaking. For too long we had Hindus and communists both separately appropriating the Gadar Party to further their own anti Sikh agendas. Gadar Party was a Sikh movement.

True, bani calls women who wear such cloths which reveal their bodies as ਗਵਾਰ because this body will one day be turned into ashes yet they take pride(ਗਰਬਿ) in showing it off. Today the situation is so bad that immodest type clothing has become the norm in society. Even in India in the urban centers a girl who wears vulgar clothing is called "bold" while a girl who wears traditional clothing is ridiculed by other girls by referring to her as "behenji". One can wear western clothing and still look modest. Western clothing does not mean one has to reveal their bear legs or wear skin tight leggings in order to be western.

This isn't the first such case. Many Hindu girls have been kidnapped and forcibly married to Muslims in Pakistan. Kind hearted leftist Muslims are the only ones making noise about such cases. But the girls are still never returned even though it is known she was kidnapped. They always come up with the same story that the girl ran away from home, converted to Islam. She is then isolated from her family by the authorities who say they are giving her 'refuge'. She is then, intimidated with threats and dire consequence to her and her family if she doesn't go back to her Muslim kidnapper/raper. This time it happened to a Sikh girl. At first this left many Islamophile Khalistanis speechless because they thought Muslims are supposed to be the good guys. So now they give each other a false sense of satisfaction by going with the Muslim narrative that "the Sikh girl ran away". Japhi Singh of 2020 campaign is one example of such a "Khalistani". These modern Khalistanis are a disgrace to the movement.

I never said "Sikhs are only manly warriors" but Homosexuality is a sexual deviancy and a Paap. I don't know maybe missionaries support this mental disorder or not but they are heretics I wouldn't be surprised if they support such paaps too

While some things said by OP are not in agreement with Gurmat but at least we Sikhs have the moral backbone to say so. Even the OP said what he said out of frustration after seeing how Sikhs are treated in Islamic counties, can you blame him? While we Sikhs are helping Muslims, building mosques for them in India, sheltering and feeding Kashmiri youth outside of Kashmir who were being targeted by Hindu radicals, protecting Muslim girls by personally escorting them to their parent's homes, feeding langar to Indian Muslims against the wishes of Hindus, what have your people done to reciprocate these friendly gestures of the Sikhs? We are still a target for conversions, Mullas in Pakistan want to tear down the statue of M Ranjit Singh in Lahore, they lament the decision of creating Kartarpur Gurdwara because they say it is against Islamic teachings. Pak army and ISI is more far sighted. They know the wisdom of trying to forge a strategic alliance with the Sikhs but your Mullahs and their fan base cannot overlook their primitive mindset.

Very true. Although many say Nehkalank and Kalki is the same but from my understanding they will be different from Kalki. Nehkalank will be a Tyar Bar Tyar Singh who will bring about unity in the Panth. Discussion about him is best to be kept Gupt and should not be discussed openly. Mahapursh know a lot but don't discuss these matters openly.

You would be surprised to know that most Khalistanis in India, Canada and US are extremely pro Muslim. They will never let this happen. Khalistanis in India are trying for forge a strategic alliance with Indian Muslims against Hindus. Today Khalistani Sikhs are trying to position themselves as protectors of Kashmiri Muslims just like Puratan Sikhs protected Kashmiri Hindus.

I used to think the same about this. But from my observation I've noticed men from other races such as Asians (Indians+Chinese) middle easterners and black men are not as much infected with this mental disorder. But with white men, homosexuality is as normal for them as breathing air. While for us we feel disgusted to the core about homosexuality, we can't even think about it. But white men magically turn into homos when they go to jail. It's as easy for them as flipping the light switch. And it's not just from modern times, homosexuality was quite normal among white men in ancient Greece and Rome. Christianity(which is a middle eastern religion) suppressed this but now homosexuality has come back in white culture with a vengeance. And they want to normalize this mental disorder amongst other races.

Every religion wants white people in their ranks. But problem with that is they always try to push the homosexual agenda on the religion they adopt since homosexuality is mainly a white man's disease.

Seeing what happened in 1984 it is actually good the complex was walled like a fort during the 1950s. If there were many walkways in 1984 it would have been harder for the Singhs to defend it.