DSG

There is a lot of false media , false allegations , false whereabouts of Bhai Amritpal Singh.

A person who has taken a step , to devote is life in helping :-

1. Those who on drugs

2. A lifeline for those Mothers who see there children ,dosed up in Drugs 

3. Telling them to take amrit , do meditation , do seva , read gurbani

4. Stand up for your rights

5. Get together as a kaum 

6. Speaking up against atrocities carried out on the minorities

He is deemed as a threat to Punjab , for his actions . How low can the Police , MPs, the leadshership in India go . They are very threatened by Bhai Amritpal Singhs mindset , a mindset to free the Sikhs , and unravel the corruption behind Indias politics. 

May waheguru keep Bhai Amritpal Singh in chardikala and give him strength to fight against injustices and wake up the Kaum worldwide regardless of ones background.

I think we need to support them in every way we can . Its a shame that BOS do not approach sikh media channels or have a regular slot on there as I am sure the younger less educated sangat will definitely watch and donate if they have difficulties.  Also there are over 300 Gurudawara in the UK , if all donate £100 thats 30k for them. Plus I think if they have direct debits setup ask say £1 a week , but have the target of 50,000 subscriptions will help also. 

Dont be scared , approach the schools head and explain what happened. Ask to do a presentation in assembly regarding sikhs and their hair . They need to be educated  not just once, many times on this matter . Ask to invite parents as well or have separate sessions with the parents. Roll this education out to all the schools. I have seen on many occasions recently that schools dont do much. You have to pressure them , all they will say is , its all in hand they have been told and it will never happen again. even though they are only 5 , ask what punishment they willl give to the 5yr old who cut his hair. 

I don't think we can blame the majority of the law abiding citizens. The british during their Raaj have distilled divide and conquer mentality, back stabbing , money is king tactics in the indian blood. Which today in my opinion helps those that are most vulnerable, and those corrupt individuals know how to exploit this.

The British stopped Maharaj Dalip Singh going back to Punjab and take back his rule , they played every tactic to stop him and succeeded, otherwise I think Punjab would have been thee place to be.

Those tactics by GOI/Police are still played now over the years we have seen protestors been shut down , abused, framed by the Police. A lot of the youngsters especially in Punjab want to go out to other countries as there are hardly any opportunities. GOI need to sort out 3 basic tenants of a country , 1) Health system 2)Police 3) Education . Its shocking that GOI on Republic day they are parading around the border showing off their weapons rather than focusing on the farmers protest and COVID19.

Those few that stand up for rights are targeted. As it canbe seen from the Farmers protest. further South , those who have well paid jobs, are educated are brainwashed by media , hence think its only an issue up North and in Punjab. No one talks , if they do its against us.

@Kcmidlands your bang on , its all about money nothing else.

Its also interesting how they state India is a sovereign country , leave all matters to them as they can deal with it. Everyone else stay out.  Yet they cause atrocities left , right and center yet no one talks. On the media , you had mainstream news about BLM,Egypt,Russia, first Mosque to provide COVID Vaccines et.. But no coverage of the farmers protest on mainstream News, where GOI have :-

1) Arrested approx. 143 people. In particular one 80 yr old and one 70 yr old. Arrested people whilst they were having lungar(food) 

2) Over 170 deaths , where some have been suicides and shootings by the Police

3) Journalists arrested , cracking down on news medias such as newsclick

4) RSS thugs bought in to cause violence

5) human rights violations ( no access to toilets/bathroom/barricaded in like sheep)

I 

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Whatever you may have read or heard about him, he has a solid background.  Lakha and Deep are good guys and if it wasn’t for them the morcha would have been abandoned long ago.  The comrades who are controlling the stage are gutless as well threatened by the youth activists.  There is a power struggle going on and the government agencies are creating a divide and trying the best to tarnish the Deep and Lakha. Don’t fall for the ‘BS’ that is thrown about!

Theres always 2 sides to the story. One question , why doesn't Deep Sidhu , go back to the Morcha and explain to the sangat what really happened. If his intentions are not to defame the morcha. Why not come out if he has nothing to hide and is a true sikh , with honest agenda . Such a shame , listening to couple of his speeches , he comes across as a good character .

Loads of questions around how he got to the red fort , when confronted by youth why he ran away , where did he get the motorcycle from to flee Red fort …..

The video about the Singh who put up the Nishaan Sahib was seen and he stated when they went to the red fort , it was calm , peaceful but then the Police started to beat up a Nihang Singh , then in defense the other Nihangs came to help him then it all kicked off.

In my opinion , the government obviously want the farmers out of delhi . On Akaal channel a statement came out to  arrest Deep Sidhu and carry out a full investigation.They also mentioned extra armed forces and internet blackout has been deployed. 18 Police officers were injured. This asks the question will they use this against the farmers and force them out of Delhi , hopefully not causing any bloodsched? There are other people aligned as well for investigation but names were not released.

This is basically social media and TV media at its best. I think in one way the government have what they seeked out to get from day one. The farmers split , people going against the morcha . The fact that there was hardly any media coverage during the 60 days plus when peaceful protest were going on. There was no media coverage when some groups wanted to harm the morcha and it was the farmers who were carrying out security activities. There was no media coverage when there was conspiracy to kill the 4 farmer leaders .There were no media coverage when fake police officers with no name badges did latee charge.  There were probably many many more incidents that occurred which the whole world are not aware of.

The only real media is here in the UK( Akaal,Sikh,KTV,Sangat) that go in at ground level to get to the truth. But I think the problem is how do we get it out there to the masses. This is propaganda at its best reminds me of Hitlers propaganda against the jews defaming them in any way shape and form and getting the masses turn against and blame the jews.

I think we can only stay positive and carry on with the Morcha. even if the farmers are removed forcefully from delhi. The farmers should create there own leadership ,and setup there own agenda so that all farmers are benefitted such as install solar panels in villages , get there water setup , get there own buyers of produce . As the sangat are willing to donate  within India and internationally for a good cause. So I don't think money would be an issue if shared and used wisely. The farmers create there own Monopoly bypass aid from the government . It will be a challenge.

May Waheguru provide guidance and support to those true souls who are fighting for a true cause.

India is so corrupt, these are their tactics to get others going against the farmers. 

They farmers will not get any justice, the government are playing dirty political games. 

I think international pressure must be applied. Its a shame English media bbc, itv have not shown this on main news.. 

We can only pray hoping there is no bloodshed. 

He should be challenged , to come on air voice his point and on the  other side the scholars / organisations who have factual information to challenge him. We probably know the outcome ( he wont turn up )

Question - how do you know the people behind the posts are Sikh ?

One can easily on social media get images , setup sikh names , and post stuff which is anti sikh to cause a stir / controversy.

I think they should be ignored , don't give them the lime light , let them do whatever they do behind closed doors ...

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Muslims invaders in India massacred millions of our people. Burnt down Gurdwaras and temples and replaced them with mosques. 

Forcibly converted and tortured millions into converting to Islam. 

Yet we Sikhs and Hindus are told to be friendly with Muslims. Ie wish them a happy Ramadan. Become friends with them. Build them mosques.

Yet after all they did. We Sikhs are suppose to pretend like nothing happened and forget the past. 

I will go by saying I have never had a single Muslim friend. I don't see these people as friends but enemy's and will never forget the atrocities committed to our people. 

Yet I see in university's, colleges and work places. Sikhs befriending them. Are these people not a utter discrace? That they are befriending these people. 

Some foolish Sikhs even start relationships with these people.

As the saying goes. Treat people the way they treat you. 

Yet I have come across so many videos on YouTube and other social media platforms. Were we have discraceful Sikhs embracing Muslims and saying we love Muslims. 

What has the world come to in this day and age? 

 

I cant believe I am reading this thread , so much hatred , racist comments …. Are you sure you are a Sikh ?

Sikhs and Hindus are not being told to be friendly with Muslims. ( if "someone" said to you go make friends with Drug dealers and rapists , would you ?

Who was Bhai Mardana ?

Who was Pir Buddu shah ?

No one is pretending anything happened , everything is written down in history. The British Raj when they ruled India for almost 200 years , killed innocent , damaged the economy of India which in those times , India had 27% GDP of the whole world , was the leader of exporting cotton goods , made ships etc... ( If it wasn't for the British back in those times , India  would have been a serious power to contend with .Are you going to say , don't make friends with the British people)

You may have experienced some bad relationships with particular people , but you cannot tarnish everyone with the same brush. There are good and bad people in every society.

Sikhs are not disgraceful , more damaging are those RSS so called Sikhs , who pretend to be Sikhs , look like Sikhs , act like Sikhs but are damaging Sikhi from within by false parchaar , changing literature. Look at India today , Where Sikhs from Hazoor Sahib came to Punjab and are being blamed to have spread COVID-19, all over the India media to belittle Sikhs.

To earn respect one must act respectfully.

Why don't you ask your parents , who can take the burden away from you and find a suitable girl based on your requirements. (Arranged marriage)

They will do the ground work , to find a suitable partner , from a good family background , etc..etc..

Then the rest is up to you ?

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They say you can do Laavan the paath daily and ardaas for a good wife. 

It works both ways , you have to be good yourself as well . Marriage is about compromise , sharing , caring , learning to back off in awkward situations, biting your tongue , love will then develop over time . Having a girlfriend for x amount of years is different than marriage. You only know the true qualities of a person once living together in the same house 24x7. But if ones character is not selfish , it will be your actions that bonds you together for life.

I think the documentary was good . It did not do justice to the interfaith marriage , just showed one view but did not actually explain what Anand Kharaj is and why Sikhs oppose interfaith marriage if the other party do not believe in maharaj jis values.  I think that part of the footage portrayed Sikhs as thugs. Bhai Jagraj Singh summed it up well , "where do we get our sikhi from" , how qualified are we to comment on sikhi. ( which made me think , how much Sikhi do I know and follow …….very little )

The Singhs who covered their faces , why ? They should have explained what Maharaj Ji is telling the sangat , rather than covering up faces , trying to hide something. Be proud and truthful so one can stand anywhere in the world without covering up because one is speaking and acting  truthfully.

From the documentary I think Sunny is realizing what Sikhi is and the message Jagraj Singh has been preaching . Which is a good thing .

The message about sikhi camps I think was true , where the sangat get more from Sikhi Camps than the Gurudawara in terms of spirituality, dialogue , information easy to understand etc.. This I think we need to learn upon and bring into the Gurudawaras more.

I think documentaries around Sikhi should be positive , encouraging and motivating because Sikhi is that and much more . Issues that effect the Sangat which relate to Sikhi such as Anand Kharaj , should show both views and not snippits and I guarantee you the Gurus message will come on top all the time.

The beautiful message of Sukhmani Kaur when Sunny was saying he doesn't feel anything relating to Sikhi , she replied its because you need to experience it and not just read it for knowledge.

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Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fathe

I really wanted to learn kirtan,

so I would be very grateful  if  someone could share details of a harmonium teacher or a place where they teach vaja  in Birmingham 

thank you 

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fathe

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

There is a vaja class at Guru Nanak Gurudawara Smethwick High Street every Monday start at 6pm for beginners and advanced class at 7pm.

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No one said it was an amritdhari Sikh who used his kirpan to do this, bro.

In fact, it hasn't even come out that the attackers were Sikhs (though 2 of the victims were).

Even if the attackers were Sikhs, I doubt that they used kirpans.

LOL , sorry bad timing for the post bro , slightly off topic .. I agree with your comments , was just ranting on about how we can protect amrtidhari and sikhi as if someone dressed up in bana , has kesh , kirpan and commits crimes ( just some thoughts ..thanks

Very Sad news , deepest condolences to their families may their souls rest in peace .

I think we need a national / international database registering all amritdhari baptized Sikhs , detailing , when they took Amrit , there address when baptized etc... , and issue each with ID cards. So that sikhi is not targeted , hope i'm very wrong but the way kaljug is spreading in this world , whats stopping a dushman of sikhi , dressing up as a baptized sikh and misusing the articles of faith , especially the kirpan.

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Were the Gurus above normal human beings? Ie if they were they would not succumb to illness like normal humans do. 

It has been stated that certain Gurus performed miracles and cured diseases. 

But why could Guru Har Krishan not cure his own small pox from which passed away from? 

If Gurus could perform acts of miracles then why did they did not do this to themselves when they  were unwell. 

Read Bhai Sahib Dr Vir Singhs Sri Guru Nanak Chamatkar , translated into English by M L Mongia .( I think its on this forum) may help your understanding. My view is that the Gurus were here on earth due to atrocities from rulers crossed all limits. People were lost , to restore love , compassion back into society the first Guru, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj , preached this in such a way that all that met Guru nanak Dev Ji fell at his feet and changed for the better.( stores such as cattle grazing, cobra protecting Guru maharaj from the suns rays , seeing mecca all directions to explain that good is everywhere etc..) Bhai Sahib Dr Vir Singh writes, The Gurus love for the lord was much more than , one who loves their children, the husband loves the wife, greedy love money ...was way way much more that we cannot even contemplate it but they all lived under the almighties hukam. Their purpose was to wake up the sangat , distill back love, compassion, so all could live along together, change peoples mindset. The Gurus were 100% above normal human beings without a doubt.

21 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

you are trying very hard to protect NKJ leader from his sexual misconduct. 

LOL !! I am not trying to protect anyone , again you make false judgement very dangerous thing to do , very anti Sikhi . Just focus on putting your views across on the topic and don't get personal.

The initial post was about banning NKJ and Ranjit Singh from doing Katha in all UK Gurudawaras. If NKJ has sexually abused a minor then that's a civil case and as already mentioned the Victim should seek professional advice and get justice. I am just outing across my opinion  about having a process in place re banning( Read the thread again ) . Anyway just going round in circles, enough said. Thanks 

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The fact you say their followers shows how lost you are

Indeed I am 100% lost , and yes I agree by your comment Gurbani says follow the Guru. ( sorry should have substituted to sangat who go to their Diwans)

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Many people have stopped attending any divan nkj hold because the leader was locking lips with a teen and slapping guys with a stick in their private area.

Really !!!! If that is the case , then why have the victims not prosecuted NKJ , or is there a case filed against them at present . I agree totally wrong . I understand if the abuse is of sexual nature it is very hard for the victim to speak up and prosecute the abuser , but this thread is about banning of NKJ due to their incorrect preaching of Guru Nanak Dev Ji maharaj , is it not ?

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The otherside you speak of having an ego is pathetic

Why is this pathetic? If one backs down , accepts their fault and is willing to change/seek guidance  isn't that a step in the right direction . But rather ego is playing a big role , such that its a tu tu meh meh game , the accusers say something , then they retaliate say something back ……... To make a change or difference one party needs to back down and admit their fault and then necessary actions taken against them.

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 3:56 PM, Akalifauj said:

You see it that way because you are a fan boy.  No different than a cheerleader. Drop the act you are not fooling anyone

This is my whole point , I know nothing about you , and you know nothing about me , with a few words on a forum you have become qualified in making judgement , which is very dangerous thing , and anti sikhi .

A proper process in which we make decisions around banning should be implemented  , with both parties present and neutral bodies adjudicating , so no one else represents them or speaks on their behalf and in the hazoori of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. This is relating to any Katha they have done which is misleading the Sangat / preaching Sikhi which is wrong  or any act which they have done wrong in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji maharaj .

If they lock lips / or do sexual activity with individuals then its the individuals who need to take further action and prosecute them and make sure they do not do it again .As already mentioned this is easily said then done due to the mental bashing sexual abuse puts on the victim its hard for them to stand up. But for this there are already processes in place , i.e. get solicitor , file a case , collect evidence , go to court , etc... Re this thread we need a process , which vets the katha vachaks , checks their qualifications , gives them appropriate sentences based on their actions  etc.. etc...

The point I am trying to make ( wheter right/wrong) but my view is we need a process in place for Katha Vahchaks , a process for banning those who are damaging Sikhi , where do we draw the line .., what about

1. Those who fight in Gurudawaras ( many videos have gone viral ) … should they be banned

2. Those who use Gurudawara premises for parties where meat and alcohol are server … should they be banned

3. Those who abuse Gurudawaras funds .. should they be banned

At least there is a process in place now for Anand Karaj .

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What are you potentially opening up our community to by having such a laissez faire attitude towards the issue. Are you unaware of how other religious communities are rampacked with covert perverts amongst their preachers? If we take a relaxed attitude towards this issue, we could easily end up in the same boat. 

That people are wary of this and vigilant is great thing, not a bad one.

 

 I don't think you have understood my point , this thread is about  incorrect katha and banning them based on that , the point I am trying to make is we need proper process in place as mentioned above. I don't disagree with you regarding Sexual abuse cases , which is worse for the victim , mentally and those vile people who do such things should be exposed , banned and punished.

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:12 PM, dallysingh101 said:

You had nothing to post in the first place other than apologist rubbish

Dhanvaad Ji , thank you for your kind words

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 6:32 PM, S1ngh said:

Singh ji, I meant that we wouldn't have lost brothers/sisters like you to these moderan pakhandi babay (had the action taken against them at much earlier stage, the result wouldn't be that damaged).

It does not make sense, at one side you are saying "I don't follow them" and yet you are intensely defending NKJ and the only thread you are heavily participating in. Seems like either you have doubt on them or having a two face strategy - Showing independency outer side & while supporting/biased someone 100%. Baba Nanak jee (who was not kidnapped nor murdered) once said - Truth is higher but truthful living is the highest

LOL ,  , let me re-iterate my opinion again  (the point I am trying to portray is the banning aspect , and how we can do things better. We Sikhs are very good at bashing people on the head make judgement very quickly , without thinking about the consequences of our actions . If you really want to know about my background ( I don't know why , me I;m a nobody and its not that important but briefly ...) , I have listened to Ranjit Singh Katha a long time back when he came to the UK , I thought he was good , simple to understand , now and again I listen to his katha , and Kanshi TV also broadcast his kathas where I listen to now and again  , NKJ I have been to their diwaans at GNG Smethwick a while back , again I thought he was good , simple to understand. I also listen to Bhai Pinderpal Singh who is very good but don't fully understand some of this "big ' Words. Also listen to Basics of Sikhi again very good , and Sarbjit Singh Rajoana TV again very good and informative..( i'll stop there). It hurts to see Sikhs fighting Sikhs , I am trying  to learn daily our Gurus message ,and at preent reading  Bhai Vir Singhs Guru Nanak Dev Ji Chamatkaar is superb . I am not perfect , commit sins daily , but hoping one day as we all do Guru maharaj does kirpa. Trying to get my kids on this path , when they ask why they banning Sikhs , why are Sikhs fighting Sikhs ,,, what message do we tell them ..Its a big task to unite , but we can at least try ...Guru Nanak Dev Ji our role model , we need to take a leaf out of his book , I know a very very big up hill task , but at least we can try ..

Heres my view :-

1. What NKJ said was 100% wrong . If they have been doing katha for a long time the simple answer would be , "sorry sangat ji , for any offense caused and nothing like this will happen in the future ".

2. The Ego has kicked in by all parties , no one wants to back down and accept their mistakes , rather theres a lot of 'tu tu meh meh " going on which is adding more fuel to the fire. As Dr Vir singh writes

" Ego manifests in us as 'I am' or 'me' as a pride and forms a veil between the Lord and us. It shapes the mind to look outwardly as 'I' and 'mine'. When we  feel proud it is the ego at work inside us and we feel proud and ravish the 'I' and 'me'. When the ego gets a beating it comes out as anager,sulkiness,jealousy and envy. Ego is like an illness which can go by loving the Lord by remembering him , singing his hymns and reciting his name"

3. Who should they have dialogue with ?

    I think sangat who have gian , scholars , singhs/Singhni who have tact on how to explain in such a manner that not to cause arguments but to change ones mindset ( that is what we are all aiming for ). 

4. They have a lot of followers , have we ever thought they could be gems in the sangat who have joined sikhi because of them and this could break their beliefs , not just turning against them but they abandon Sikhi altogether.

5. If they do not want to have dialogue , do we carry on spreading rumours where some are true and others not . Obviously they have a big influence on the sangat , are we breaking sikhi causing a rift , creating separate pockets of sikhi …. do we not want ekta?

6. Basics of Sikhi run a 6 month training course for anyone who wants to become a katha Vachak , should we not setup a structure stating :-

1. What qualification's does the katha vachak have ?

    What source in terms of literature have they read ?

  Have a definitive list that has been vetted , so that all can read . The same material used by all Katha Vaachaks , you wont be able to stop some adding their own twist to it , that's fine but as long as they don't change the meaning..

2. Rules and regulations for katha vachaks

   i.e. not going off topic

         not saying anything controversal , vetting what they will be presenting etc..

3. Rewarding good katha vaachaks who have good influence on the sangat

etc.. etc..

So rather than a mere ban , all Katha Vachaks , scholars , sangat sit around a table and have discussions as how to move forward ( I know our Gurus have setup this structure for us , we have the guidance we just need to come together and act upon it , with love , compassion , sincerity…and have proper leaders , but again saying that each one of us who believe in the 10 Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , can make this change

There have been many cases , videos that have gone viral where fights in Gurudawara … have the instigators of these fights been banned ? There are Gurudwaras still today who use their halls to allow sangat to serve meat and alcohol.. have they been banned ?

just some views , hopefully I have not offended anyone.