Guru_Da_Chella

The filthy rat worshippers term is usually used by muslims to describe hindus and even sikhs. Is this Rambo person really sikh?

I have been seeing a lot of similar videos on Facebook over the past year or so. What would Guru Nanak Dev ji do in this situation, I think he would start a discourse, not start bullying or beating the sadhu!

Great thanks =)

The problem is, people from the sikh community, both in the west and in India, make negative comments towards turban wearers. Comments that are either hateful, discriminatory, or take the mickey out of turbans. This happens in many families. Now, let's say when goray in UK discriminate against the turbans, then we protest (like in the 70s/80s), or take them to court for racism (Racially aggravated crime), or sue an employer (turban discrimination) etc But what heck is our community doing when so many members of the sikh community are doing similar things??? I mean, the only time I hear anything is when people complain about girls not liking turbanned sikhs, and then sometimes see some topic on radio and tv, or increasingly more often on this forum! But look, it's not just sikh girls, it's sikh boys that are also causing the hatred, and I know this happens in India too as I know of a few incidences! But do we protest? NO! Do we complain? Doesn't seem like it! Are we doing anything? Doing sikhi prachar is good and all, but look, we need more awareness about, and how to stand up against, the bullying and hatred within our own community against turbans! From observations, I think the other thing is the sub communities in the sikh community. Some sub-communities, such as Afghan and Bhatra sikhs, have a lot of respect for turbans, so they don't experience first hand any discrimination against turban from other sikhs. But I come from the jatt sikh community, and turban respect can drop low in this community. I also see some of this discrimination from other indian sikh communities that are related to mine, such as Indian tarkhan sikhs as opposed to East Africa sikhs. - So I think this is an issue we need to deal with as well, a slow poison rapidly being spread against the turban by ignorant people in the sikh community!

Some of us come from very traditional families, so it is just not worth the beats to do this. Besides, people also have this hyper-construct of Singhs behaving perfectly, and going outside punjabi women, even going out of caste for some of us, can look like a guy that goes after women ie kanjar instead of someone genuinely looking for marriage and grihasta jeevan (Grihast, but autocorrect puts an "a" in the end so I'm going to use this spelling). Anyway if Singhs do this, then just be ready to lay down the fact in front of relatives that sikh girls are disrespecting Singhs and turbans, so it was a logical choice. Better than cutting your hair just to marry a girl that calls herself sikh, right?

Since I joined this forum I have grown more mature and understanding of relationships. Firstly I am going to answer the title of this thread, regarding dating. To begin with, I think we should also understand things like puberty, hormones as well as peer pressure from media and society, and over-sexualisation from media. Also understand that in the western perspective, the dating terms girlfriend and boyfriend actually describe being partners, similar to what a husband and wife is. I have pondered, contemplated and understood some things: One thing is that, historically and world-wide, people used to get married usually in their teenage years or perhaps early adulthood/ early 20s, and this was in tune with human nature (hormones, puberty etc). Look at the ages Guru jis got married. I do not even think the Guru jis or purataan sikhs/Singhs would consider it appropriate for anyone to marry at the ages people marry now, including the ages sikhs are now getting married at, especially in the west. We can exclude non grihast ashram following celibate/Behingam purash such as Baba Sri Chand, Nihang Singhs committed to doing sewa, sants committed to sewa etc. Previous generations, such as sikh migrants to the uk, probably married at suitable ages. Parents from both western countries and India have not been able to well adapt these marital traditions to the desire to get married later due to issues such as studying at University. Only a minority of students are already married when they start university. I also know of a gursikh family whose daughter got married during university. Human nature desires a partner (again due to puberty, hormones etc), but the pressure is again increased due to peer pressure, society, media, and of course age as well. Traditional arranged marriage provided a partner at an appropriate age. Modern arranged marriage is no longer age-friendly. The desire for a partner leads to getting a boyfriend/girlfriend, which of course is a partner as well isn't it? This is definitely not the gurmatt way or grihasti way, but sometimes this can lead to a grihast marital lifestyle. But in alot of cases it is a replacement. I can even say, for many people dating is now a marital type lifestyle as well, living in a family and having children, just like a married couple. But if you are sikh, then this isn't Anand Karaj though is it? It's more of a cultural thing in the west. In punjabi culture, (I have also seen this in older punjabi movies) an unmarried man past his early 20s would become known as "Sharrah". That's like saying this person is past his marital age now. I actually saw in these older movies Mehar Mittal used to be the Sharrah flirting with single girls in a comedy way, sometimes getting married to one. So to conclude, people are dating because children go past the age that tradition and gurmatt would recommend for marriage, and human nature and societal influences takes over. OK, so many sikhs including amritdharis are not going for arranged marriages anymore. In that case, parents need to explain to the children concentrate on looking for a husband and wife, not to look for a boyfriend and girlfriend which is the western cultural norm. Getting to know someone is very good for marriage, but there is no point in becoming constrained in a boyfriend-girlfriend partnership if your aim is to be in a marital grihast partnership such as through Anand Karaj. FInally I will refer to the context of middle school. Are middle schoolers teenagers? I think at this age hormones and puberty start. Back in old times some people got married at these ages I guess. I reckon peer pressure is also leading to people dating at this age but then again, in the UK girls get pregnant at 12 in deprived areas yet people will say it is backwards to marry at similar ages. I would say marriage was mutually exclusive to bodily changes. As the law now dictates when someone may marry, then dating has replaced teenage partnerships in society. I think your friend is either one of those "chalak" girls, or her hormones have taken over, such things happen to some young people earlier than others. I would be careful if I were you. In the context of amrit-dharis dating. I know amrit-dhari families from indian backgrounds who would not dare date. I myself don't come from a gursikh family, but we wear turbans and are very traditional. Most amrit-dharis I have seen that date are ones that don't come from families that have a recent link to India or Punjab, like I had friends that were Amrit-Dharis but they weren't very traditional, their families came from other countries where the sikh sangat had become very modern and no longer frowned on dating, they aren't very desi and use condescending terms to describe punjabis such as "Indian Mentality". Just remember, Guru jis and purataan Singhs lived in desi society, and even the history in Gurbaani references this society as well.

No people would not get angry as I have discussed in this thread here that some gurdwaras promote matrimonial services for people that actually hate turbaned sikhs: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/62606-disrespect-to-turban-at-gurdwara-matrimonials-from-sikh-females/

So I see the problem isn't improving is it? I actually started a thread in the Beadbi section to discuss how gurdwaras are actually helping to increase these problems. I am uploading what a list looks like in this thread here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/62606-disrespect-to-turban-at-gurdwara-matrimonials-from-sikh-females/ The list shows the state of things in 2011, I have no idea if things are worse or better now, it should appear on my latest post once the moderators approve it.

I just saw someone start a similar thread here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/75142-girls-views-on-guys-with-turbans I said I would upload a list of the problem, this list is from Singh Sabha Havelock Southall from 2011. You will see on the very first page that there are 2 women that are actually over 40 that dislike/hate turbans! You will see girls with mixed preferences, but bare in mind the ages of them as well. Obviously some of them may change their preferences as they get old and desperate, but look there are two 40 year olds that still hate turbans, so who knows? I haven't heard anything and have not been actively involved recently, I wonder if anything has been sorted in this gurdwara and in others that partake in similar activities. NOTE TO ADMIN: If there is any problem with the list just let me know so I can edit it, it is not a list of recent members, and contains no forenames! Girls-Mailing List-Oct 11.pdf

For amritdharis isn't having a muslim woman a bujjar kurahit? I do know that Maharaja Ranjit Singh was married to tawaifs, but he wasn't proper amritdhari was he?

Maybe Guru jis weren't limited by maryada of specific jathebandis? just saying!

Are you questioning the akal takht maryada? Is there no difference between having a mantar read on your food and having sarblohi degh done on it?

Yep, good replies, to the jathebandi syndrome =D

To be honest I would do a Professional IT course if I were you. I have done IT up to MSc level, it hasn't netted me a job, professional IT courses are more employable than degrees, trust me! The first course that you should start with is Comptia A+ , I would say its the foundation to an IT career.

Not this again, why are people willing to do internet prachar but not willing to show up and have a chat about it? nindo nindo...

Yes, but reducing disrespect towards turban is a start, and makes a huge difference.. Some girls are ignorant enough to disrespect on just the basis of wearing a turban.

This and the problems on this thread with attitudes from girls towards turbans are connected issues:

I had another interesting thought, how about making all the males give photos only wearing turbans. Every sikh male can wear a turban and will be wearing on on Anand Karaj day, so this can be implemented and reduce problems of discrimination and disrespect significantly. Here's an image of an "explanation" by the group admin: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=461054053922382&set=a.461053030589151.113619.256338197727303&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_comment Here is the group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/41021874437/?ref=ts

Right firstly, I think girls should be able to use the gurdwara matrimonial services if they have neutral thinking, in that they are ok with non-turbanned guys as long as they are fine with turbanned guys as well. Secondly, if they don't like turbanned guys, then they should be told to go elsewhere as it amounts to discrimination and a behaviour not suitable in a gurdwara. Lastly, being told this, some girls will actually think twice. The problem is, many of the girls are coconuts (in the USA you have ABCDs). If they are made to feel that its a really bad and discriminatory thing to look at turbans in a bad way, then it will help them gain respect for the turban. The problem is, no one is stimulating the females brains, and helping them with etiquette.

lol vut?

If hostlity towards turban is being allowed in the gurdwara, at such high numbers (I have evidence of the high numbers which I will hopefully upload on the net soon), then what does that say for the future? I am pretty sure the sangat at the gurdwaras, such as the Havelock Singh Sabha Southall which would have a huge number in sangat, are mostly unaware of these services promoting such turban hostility inside gurdwara sahibs right below the sangats' noses. If only there was a way of making it sangat knowledge of what happens inside the gurdwara, although it doesn't happen behind closed doors, its still goes unnoticed. But seriously, the numbers are shocking!!!!

Meanwhile, have a look at how the Gurdwara matrimonial services (Singh Sabha Havelock being a big contributor to this!!!) are helping the coconuts increase Anand Karaj ignorance, by allowing females hostile towards turbans to register and virtually take over the list !! http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/62606-disrespect-to-turban-at-gurdwara-matrimonials-from-sikh-females/

I see lots of Ramgharia gurdwaras in UK? And also jathebandi labelled gurdwaras and gurdwara events?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=461054053922382&set=a.461053030589151.113619.256338197727303&type=1&theater TURBAN DISCRIMINATION IN THE LARGEST GURDWARA IN EUROPE: A turbanned male was banned from the Singh Sabha Havelock Southall matrimonials Facebook group, for promoting respect for turban and expressing the amount of discrimination against turbans promoted by many of the female members of the service, for which this gurdwara service doesn't bat an eyelid. The image above shows another member arguing with group admin against the ban, instead of receiving an answer to his 2nd post, he was also subsequently banned. The matrimonial service is held INSIDE the gurdwara, so Guru Granth Sahib is parkash is on the floor above the service. Link to group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/41021874437/?ref=ts