Paran-Singh

It is pathetic to compare the Singhs who killed Ramanand to the executioners of Jehangir, for the simple fact that these new age "sants" and "gurus" are nothing but conmen and glory-seekers who take gurbani and spread it as their own. If they want to live in their own little cult fantasy world and not effect the Khalsa Movement then that is fine by all means offer them the true path but if they reject it for fire-worshipping or whatever then dont be upset at them. It is when they disrespect the Khalsa is when they commit injuries upon us and that is when we must act and not spare a single one of them. Jehangir killed because the Sikh Gurus were major political enemies who were instilling revolution into the people. Ramanand was killed because he was spreading counter-revolution and disrespecting SGGS ji. Ramanand was not killed because we feared him as an alternative to Sikhi and we believed people would start following his wacky cult, but because his movement was inimical to us through his own doing. We had no choice but to end him it was a major sin to kill him but it would have been an even greater sin to let that counter-revolutionary live.

This ultimately boils down to, what is worse? Western society with its oppressive insistence on economic class division so horrible it makes the Caste system in Guru Sahibs time look nice, OR the fascist society of islam and its fervent insistence upon the superiority of the teachings of a 6th century warlord which ultimately keeps people in the dark age mentality. They are equally corrupt only equality and Dharma are true. In western society Dharma is tolerated. In islamic fascist countries it is not. Therefore if we have to choose between living under Turaks or under Britishers, il choose Britishers but plan to one day be ruled only by Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

What an opinion. What are you trying to prove by saying thats fine you can believe that, nobody was asking for your approval. Heres a difference for you, unlike Islam, SIkhi is not a missionary religion, we let people come to dharma we do not try to shove dharma down peoples throats. Try and debunk that one.

Why take advice from someone who is afraid to divulge their own identity? On spn it is not possible to prove a point in an adult manner the outcome of a debate is always off topic Ad Hominem or personal attacks. That is why this forum of SikhSangat is superior as a place for an honourable gentleman's debate whereas spn may aswell be a couple of youths swearing at each other in the playground. You want to discuss the topic? Discuss it here.

Yes we must learn from our history and use the knowledge gains in our current morcha. The one thing we can learn from this is : YOU CANT TRUST FREEDOM IF ITS NOT IN YOUR HANDS!! I say we move towards an independent Socialist Republic on the Punjab Plateau initially taking land from the fascist federation of hindustan and then when we are strong enough reclaim our capital of Lahore and all places which beling to the hands of the Khalsa such as Nankana Sahib and not trust them in the hands of Turaks. The key here is to not only read our own history, but that of other revolutionary people especially the ones who have established an independant free equal socialist state for their people. i.e, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua. We must not aim to completely emulate their economic and agricultural models as they have flaws and are not suited to the fertile lands of Punjab. If we all unite under 1 flag as 1 people no government not even a "superpower" like india or the usa can stop us because we have the greatest superpower: the gift on Naam! Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A very good question. The fact is that meat is animals killed solely to fulfil the desires of our taste-buds as there is plenty of less sin carrying vegetarian foods made available by Waheguru ji. Then perhaps nowadays wearing of animals is solely to fulfil our ego fashion sense as there are much cheaper and less sin carrying materials which are strong and keep you warm. Besides in my local Guru Ghar we leave jackets and shoes downstairs and out of the Darbar where Guru ji Maharaj is. My point here is that yes the act you are describing should stop, and there are 2 methods: making sure people dont wear them by kicking out people as if they were eating meat, or educating people so they do not do it. I think the latter is better as if you educate people, then they will not do wrong things because they are wrong, but if you threaten people then they will not do wrong things because of fear of getting caught. A sign on the entrance to the Gurus property banning meat alcohol animal skins and tobacco should suffice get one made for your Gurdwara and put it up. Just ensure that before any serious action, if someone breaks the rule then educate them as to why it is wrong and ask them to leave, if they are arrogant continually then by all means throw them onto the street.

That is a good question, is there any correlation between the modern English word Pistol, and what is written in the Shri Sarbloh Granth? Kudos on the question however your way of discussing a point makes you look like a child having a tantrum alias. As for the so called anti-gurmat actions of Nihang Singhs as you have claimed, consider this: on the point of marijuana consumption, we both know it has been explicitly prohibited by Shri Guru Granth Sahib by Bhagat Kabeer ji, but the medicinal properties of the plant to heal wounds during combat can not be ignored. Sikhi has taught us that to consume for intoxication is paap, but to consume for medication is legitimate. What our Nihang Brothers traditionally did was consume for medication as a pain killer, or make into a paste to put on a wound as an anticoagulant to help heal the wound. It could be argued that with the advent of more efficient western medicines, the use of marijuana medicinally is now always actually for intoxication purposes as there are more effective drugs out there. I will accept that armument if you choose to present it, but no body will accept your cover-all argument about their actions being anti-gurmat. I suppose until you have been injured in combat and required that sort of medical attention, then what do you know of what is right and wrong then? Is it right to pass out and die from blood loss or use marijuana to heal a wound and continue fighting? Given the choice in Dharam Yudh would you, being shot, pass it up and say actually no to use that specific medicine is paap and so I shall not touch it? Secondly on the point of consumption of meat, we all know that to take a life is an in-justifiable action. It is an in-justifiable but sometimes necessary act. When Bhai Satwant and Bhai Beant Singh ji killed the demon Indira a week before her plans to ethnically cleanse all of India of SIkhs, and by doing so also thwarted her plans for full scale war with Pakistan, that is an example of an in-justifiable act of killing a child of Waheguru, but necessary to save many of his other children like the innocents who would have been slaughtered on the streets of Dehli and murdered in a bloody war with Pakistan. Similarly to kill an animal who is a beloved child of Waheguru ji is also in-justifiable, but in times when food is scarce such as the battlefield it may be necessary to do a little evil to continue the greater good of Dharam Yudh. Jhatka means to kill in 1 blow and is a military term primarily describing a battlefield philosophy that you should always aim to kill your enemy swiftly and efficiently with 1 blow. This act carries less baggage of negative Karma than leaving your enemy wounded and die-ing slowly, instead you send them straight to the court of Dharam Raj. Such a technique is used when you are forced to kill an animal to eat it, to make the sin as light as possible you kill in 1 blow. Some go as far as to say that killing goats in Jhatka technique is good practise for battle Jhatka the real thing, however I disagree with this point, as a goat does not fight back whereas on the battle field you will not be fighting an innocent docile goat but a fellow adversary warrior. We do not live in an ideal world where we can always find vegetarian food so meat IS acceptable as a last resort ONLY. Knowing this I personally keep strict lacto vegetarian, this knowledge is not an excuse to legitimize going down to macdonalds. Killing in Jhatka whether it be on the battlefield or on an animal still carries heavy sins, just not as much as killing in a messy way. Killing in Halal method is the worst sin as you kill slowly and pretend to legitimize it with prayers thus disrespecting Waheguru further. If someone was killing your children but was making a prayer singing to you at the same time do you think it would make you feel any better? Besides meat is a banned topic on this site, for a good reason. That is how we present arguments and points in a discussion like gentlemen, and not children having a tantrum. Sorry to mods for going off topic.

excellent discussion so far, its been a very interesting and intellectual read i have only found a slight personal misunderstanding with the talk: "ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਗੋਰ ਦੇਵਲ ਮਸੀਤਾਂ ਗਿਰਾਯੰ । ਤੁਹੀਂ ਏਕ ਅਕਾਲ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਾਯੰ । Graves, Hindu temples and Mosques be destroyed and that only Eternal, Hari is to be worshiped. ਮਿਟੇਂ ਵੇਦ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਠਾਰਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ । ਮਿਟੇਂ ਬਾਂਗ ਸਲਵਾਤ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕੁਰਾਨਾਂ । That all Vedas, Shashtras and Puranas to be destroyed. Destroy prayer call, circumcision and Quran." just curious where that is from and is it then the mission of Khalsa to eradicate the other faiths, or integrate them into dharma?

If he is dividing the monas from the community then they should be inspired to follow rehit by this action if they want to be sons and daughters of Guru Gobind SIngh not offended by the admin. it is a perfectly valid point that if you break Sikh rehit you have broken the bond between yourself and the guru and so are no longer his student or Sikh.

Well done on starting out, and excellent points made by everyone! Just follow Rehit and you cant go wrong http://damdamitaksaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=33&showall=1 We are trying to eradicate our karma and so adding to it by eating killed things, messing with nature for unnecessary results, will just add to our accounts so we avoid such behaviour whenever possible as it means we have to work even harder to reach Mukhti. However in the dire situation where our survival is necessary for the betterment of the Panth then eating whatever you can find has been acceptable in the past. However vegetarian options and rations are so common and easily tinned and preserved these days I hope that means we will never again have to stoop to eating meat even in times of desperation and war.

Much love bros, really good discussion and excellent dumalla. About the tying the knot do you mean when initially tying your hair up in a small keski upon which the dastar is tied? Because I used to do it where you have your hair without any kapra just twisted and tied and then once id circled it twice id tuck the remaining hair under the rest and then pull to tighten it all. Honestly I always thought this was uncomfortable personally so I tried the method of twisting kapra in with my kesh and then doing circles with that combination around my headcrown, circling 2-3 times and then tucking the remaining material underneath one other piece of material and then putting my kanga in after then using the remaining material to tie circles around this entire thing to make a small keski upon which I tie my dastar. Its more of a mini dastar than a keski really. Anyways i find this method much more stable and comfortable and I think I saw it demonstrated on the Sikhnet dumalla type 1 and 2 turban tying videos on youtube. http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans Perhaps give it a try and you might feel the same way, it feels more... unbroken as there are no knots just a constant circling of matter

Your Seva is much appreciated, please keep up the good work.

Similarly to Sukhjeevansingh ji i also had a conversation with these people and found that infact their fervent wish to spread their "faith" is not equally matched with any personal knowledge of their own faith. I attended a Church School for 7 years and found it to be a very good education and i learned a lot about our Christian friends, however these jehovahs witnesses could not answer any questions i had about certain segments of the Bible which are to say the least, controversial. it seems they just want everyone to join tehir club without telling anyone who joins what they actually do or believe except that everyone else is wrong. This may seem harmless but this is kind of self righteousness leads to extremist cults who will go out of their way to assert their superiority. We have already faced this dilemma with extremist islam in the past and currently with extremist hinduism. Be wary and cautious of their intentions, the individuals may be nice people but their system of faith has nothing to offer which even remotely matches what Sikhi has to offer.

Sikhvibes ji is correct, to a Gursikh age is not a venerable criteria. However i remember in the past reading the DDT Rehit Maryada found here http://www.damdamitaksaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80&Itemid=68&showall=1 and seeing that it stated that it is usual for there to be a 4 year age gap between the male and younger female. i was never sure as the reason to this and put it down to in my mind that perhaps it was so that in the eventuality that the husband was killed the bride would still be able to remarry and continue her life, as it was a majority of men who fought and died on the battlefield. this may be completely wrong, maybe sangat ji could embellish this point for me aswell. Bhul Chuk Marf

i hope we can throw off the shackles of capitalist slavery and of indian fascism, however the problem is not with real hindus, but people who are hiding behind hinduism and using it as a front for their hateful political agenda. Khalistan would see the prosperity of all dharmic faiths not just Sikhi but also the hindus path and get rid of the new age fascist hinduism which plagues south asia. our real enemy is the indian government and not the indian people they are just sheep who do as they are told but if they were educated and given freedom aswell fom the oppression of the indian government then their loyalty would soon switch to the righteous cause of Khalistan. dismantle federal india and create a new alliance of all the south asian nations as they existed before the british turned us against each other. Khalsa Raj Khalistan in the north, Tamil Eelam in the south, maoist bengal in the east and then whatever states wish to exist in the south east around Goa. The nations should be distinct and autonomous but have a common interest in the prosperity of all the people living in south asia. for now this is a realistic dream for now, the 21st century, but one day the entire universe will chant the Naam and call themselves Sikhs of the Guru.