Kara

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Definately, please post a link. I am interested to hear the reasoning behind these arguments. A dam is not the same as a well built canal. And I seriously doubt that India would risk its economic dependance on Punjab's water and other resources just to make the rest of the country and its own economic position unpredictable. China made great miscalculations with the dams they placed throughout Manchuria, they basically did not factor in a well thought out project because their turbines ended up being 15-25% less efficient than expected. What do you expect? They use coal and low maintenance fluids in their reciprocating turbine models (which are 30 years old). They had huge backout problems and where there was supposed to be water, there was none, and on the other side the river flooded. Millions of people have been moved as a result. In india no such plans are anticipated. The SYL Canal is a system of channeling waters to prevent erosion and to moniter the effect of production on the land. The underwater channels in the area supercedent to the main bodies of waters are actually flowing with fluvial sediment and therefore are independant sources of water. Given the effects of 'transient global warming effects', the northern indian sector stands to see an increase in water and percipitation. The biggest threat to Punjab right now on a resource based analysis isn't the water so much as it is the quality of water. And that isn't so much an issue plaguing the state of Punjab as it is something that effects the entire world. Somalia is not water bereft, which is a start ling thing to say. Somalia on the contrary is actually well endowed with water resources, but no one knows or has the means to drill deep enough wells as well as hydraulically lift the water from these wells. Its poor GDP and wartorn economy cannot afford to drill water wells because they don't have a sustainable method of producing it. Many of the wells in somalia were drilled up to 75 years ago. The wells never dried up, but they sloughed and degraded over time, and now water can't be drawn for other reasons. It is too bad that rich oil companies cannot dedicate their sources to drilling for water as opposed to oil and gas. I mean inventory is important to a company, but if people can't drink water, even if it is proven to be there, is a great injustice. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! If that is the case, then implementing canals etc. is actually a preventative measure not something that will aggravate or accelarate the decrease of water in the area. Besides a river doesn't dry up from water extraction typically. They dry up from environmental effects like rechanneling and extreme cases of evaporation. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Actually placing canaling on a river also prevents it from meandering, which causes erosion and the destruction of many other resources like fertile land production and mineral extraction. If used properly it has its benefits. Rivers are like knives in warm butter if you speed up time. The rivers widen out over time and then fluvial minerals and marine minerals separate, causing the water to be a useless resource (i.e. fresh water stays on the bottom and travels into the ground while salt water stays on top). Its a huge problem in China, and it was totally mismanaged. Now the land is a dry barren wasteland in many recently fertile places in southwestern Manchuria. This is because the rivers were not controlled around important land investments. On the other hand, when the policies are written in regards to the water shares, they extend past the five rivers completely and include the estuaries and underground channels that flow as a result of the five main rivers throughout india. These rivers branch all across India if you see their extent past the vision of the naked eye. Managing the rivers will keep the land fertile and will also ensure that many of the wells drilled for water in towns as far away as the mid western region of rajasthan all the way to the deprived regions of burma and utter pradesh depend heavily on the lesser known underground channels that run through as a result of the quintessential delta that defines the state of Punjab. I also think that there is a reason that natural resources are not state owned in a democratic state. Especially primary resources. In Canada , the Federal Government reserves the right to call a resource in any province, a Canadian resource. This is because the sum benefit the whole. Although we may not want Punjab as a state that is part of India, including the 2/3rds of the Sikh territory we claim that is within the borders of Pakistan, I say at least as Singhs we should recognize that we are not giving water to surrounding states at no cost. This isn't seva. All water shares come at commodity's price, and the state run legislature gains asset finances and compensation for the amount of water already traversing across the country. Unfortuneately, I believe this just causes greater regional disparity and we really are gaining a great income from it. Its got many advantages, I suppose: a.) Management of dynamic hydrostatic water systems, to prevent meandering effects and erosion or flooding or pressure drawdown. b.) Income to the state of Punjab through the CPWD accords and the Punjabi Termination of Agreements Act c.) This is a canal, not a dam, pressure on both sides of the rivers will be unchanged. Underground estuaries and channels will remain at the disposal of the resource and production generators in the Punjabi state. Exactly, India needs Punjab simply because of its resource abundance which many other states do not have. But Punjab at the moment needs India because of the business that has accrued through simple land investments made by all indians. Goa is the richest state in India, but that is because of its size and tourism industry. Punjab has by far the greatest income per capita (not captia per income as someone said on this forum). This is because of the tenure of the land itself. I'm more interested to know what kind of state run developments in the Oil and Gas sector Punjab has made at the international level. This is a source of great income especially for the geological state of Punjab. I'm definately sure that Punjab has one of the richest minera l resources and natural non-renewable resources in all of India, which may be a huge industry in its future. If anyone needs information on the geological advantages of Northwestern india, email me, I've got tons of papers from University. Oh and again, don't worry about claiming the water. There is so much water in Punjab its actually beneficial to the state (from an economic standpoint) to allow the federal government to invest its money in managing the rivers) its actually saving Farmers lots of money and increases the value of the land around the area of the channels themselves because the water itself is controlled by hydrostatic pressure turbines that make sure the river flows accordingly and not turbulently in unpredictable fashion. The more investment the indian government places on the resources in punjab, the richer the state will get. Maybe we should share our water as an act of seva to those states and countries less fortunate. I wouldn't mind sending fresh water to deprived and inarable lands in the plagued lands of Africa and some desert areas in India. It would go to give Punjab the image of a state predestined for Khalistans institution. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! That is not true at all. The five rivers form a delta in punjab, and the water is ionic. Much of it needs to go through expensive refinement to be cleaned because it is downstream. Irrigation wells all over punjab come from the aquifers underneath the ground. An aquifer is an underground channel of fresh water. It is filtered because unlike rivers it flows through porous media and thus retains trace amounts of toxicants. This is what punjabi farmers use to keep their land fertile. It is not our water to claim. Much of the water is already going through refinement upstream around punjab, and compensation is already coming to the state through the inter-state water share plans already in progress. Sure transit fees etc suck when it comes to the politics behind disparity of resources. But when you have one state with all the resources and others like rajasthan with so few, isn't it already a trademark of a state destined to become Khalistan to do seva with the st ates around it? We cannot claim water and let others less fortunate not have access. Because indirectly you restrict the development of a standard of living all over the subcontinent. Water is water, and by Waheguru's will, these rivers will never dry. And actually, I could lead you through the proof that these rivers are actually quite young, and they have yet to begin meandering from a geological perspective. The Himalayas are the youngest mountain range in the world, thus the geostratic history of the area of northwestern india (particularly) punjab is quite an untouched resource. You'd be amazed, that if you actually flipped punjab upside down you'd find it not to be the land of 5 rivers but more than 5000. A group of us from CEDA went to the North Western Region of Punjab and journeyed through some small towns and cities (Harshiarpur, Mogha, and even Ludhiana and Jalandar) a few years ago. Many of us were either from a geology or petrophysical engineering background. Our professor was born in Punjab and was adamant about bringing us here as he did a Doctorate on Petrolithic Elasticity and Seismic modeling of water aquifers. Basically, that means he knew how to tell if there was water underground. Although the five great rivers have incredible deltas and their convergence in this state is nothing short of a geologic and aesthethic miracle of Waheguru, there is so much more water within this fruitful land. As a comparison, the North Western portion of India sees more moisture and percipitation than any other locale in India, even in the Monsoon regions to the south. Much of these torential rains are caused by coastal evaporation and tropical storms, which occur for brief periods during the year. In Punjab the water content in the air is so saturated that it is one of the most ideal places in the world to farm. By the way, the units of water shares taken from the Punjab rivers are not even close to one percent of the capacity of the rivers themselves. If you need more information, send me an email and I can send you the thesis my professor wrote on the aquifers. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! So now we're claiming fresh water? What exactly is all this water used for, that it should need us to claim it from those 'heathens'. Are they wasting it away by taking nice long hot showers? No, no. I figured it out. They're evaporating it and making clouds with it so they can launch an agent assault from the sky. Call me when you post something serious. Punjab maintains the richest soils and underwater aquifer zones in all of India. Much of the water comes from rich underground wells. You think Punjab just has rich soil because of its location? The aquifers underneath the ground transmit nutrients through the shales and loams that Punjabi farmers grow their world famous crops upon. These aquifers extend for far distances and are much more useful than the rivers themselves which contain cations that can crenate crops. The water from the rivers is treated and used mostly by bottling companies from the western hemisphere. Besides, upstream these rivers flow through other nations and countries. The water is no more ours than anyone elses. If you are concerned about the amount of water in Punjab, travel down to Rajasthan. Travel to the poorest states in India. I can hardly believe the materialism. Whatever. Trust me, the five holy rivers of Punjab will nourish the land for many years to come. Its not as bad as you think. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! I never said it was a step down in evolution The monkey the man and then the gun. Its the evolution of power. Someone with a gun, always yields more authority than just a person without one. Does the evolution of power, need an evolution in responsibility? At the genetic level... We have, I believe stopped evolving at that stage. We control our resources, we have a much better control of the environment. We don't need to evolve so we won't. What is evolution in that respect? Adaptation to the surroundings? Why evolve? Creationism and Evolution are directly contradictory. Did we come from the monkey? Or did Waheguru create us? Is there a difference between the freedom won through a peaceful fight, and the freedom won through a fight for peace? I know Guru Gobind Singh Ji used weapons (i.e. guns) when at war. I asked a question about evolution in regards to many aspects of Sikhism. "also say y not, evolution is a scientific theory and Sikhi and Science go from hat i know hand in hand. we need to realise even this theory is the hukam of Akaal and therefore may also be seen as a test of our faith." Please explain the Hukam of Akaal. Someone else said: "It may never be possible to understand fully God's purpose in creating man, but prophets have told us something about man's goal. It is generally accepted that God's purpose is for man to realize his divine inheritance while living in this mortal frame. " Man's goal? God's purpose. How do we know what God's purpose is, if we trouble over humanity's so much? God just becomes a tool then. A product or object of our self-deceit. "God is not a cruel monster out for sport with mortals. On the contrary, He is like a benevolent father. He gave man a good start in this life by providing him with all the needs for his upkeep at the time of birth.' So what happened now? In our time? Our benevolent father can only be held accountable for the good things, right? We are accountable for all the bad? "Just as the body is sustained by food and drink, in the same way the soul is nourished by virtue and devotion. When the soul progresses with the performance of good deeds and the remembrance of The Name, it becomes more worthy of a merger to Divinity.' This sounds like a business contract. What happens if we do something bad with good intentions? How do we know what piety is held in high esteem with our God? Why can't we be good, period? Why do we need religion to instruct us that we should do things a certain way to achieve Divinity? Why aren't we naturally akin to God's will? What is this human desire we fight, the five evils we hope to never fall underneath the influence of? "Life may be compared to a game of chess or cards. Where the individual does not frame the rules or control the game. The cards are given to him; it is upto him to play the cards well or badly, wisely or foolishly. God watches over him and will reward him according to his efforts. " God's a Dealer? > What efforts are involved with the chance and luck associated with cards. Life is a gamble. You either pit yourself with God or against Him/Her? "Man is a focal point in the universe. He is the apex of creation, the final stage. Human life is the starting point for God-realization. You cannot own salvation as an animal or stone. Only human life, offers this grand opportunity for spiritual attainment. " So animals will never reach spiritual attainment. They are excused then for the things they do? Did the apex of creation come from these 'lesser' forms of life? Why do we so commonly call ourselves tigers and lions if they are not going to achieve spiritual attainment? You cannot own salvation as an animal or stone. Why does human life offer such an opportunity, because we realize that there is a self in us all, what you call a soul? Is this 'man' inherently evil, or inherently good? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Obsequy (The Death of Art) ______________________ This is what you want? This is what you get: "Well, since we seem to be so fond of poetry, I thought that I, the inferior creation, would give it a whack. Forgive me if it is not up to your standards:" A word may be entirely misleading, but I can see right through your stain-glass provocation. Please do continue to patronize! No forgiveness, no salvation... "Many tried to be Anti-Sikhs, none survived. So friend, look at those who tried and let me with you confide..." I never claimed that I would be this Anti-Sikh. Actually, I'm quite the opposite. "They come called Masti. Disguising themselves behind names like Consolation of Philosophy. Taunting and arrogant, they flaunt venom in estacy. Forgetting that the Path lay in simplicity." In all honesty. I spit vitriol, not swallow I set stages, not follow. Arrogant? I never professed to be greater than you. But I can never accept your idea of equality. It involves addition and subtraction, and I'm not very fond of math. Our lives are already filled with auditions and subtractions. Simplicity was born from naiveity. To believe that the axioms we follow are the most simple truths, is typically the result of causal discrimination. The Path lies not in simplicity, but in ones own spirituality which is a part of the divine complexity. "Fired by the five evils, they speak of Armageddon, yet cannot overcome their own duplicity." I may allude to the misinformation age, not the time of Armagedd on. Your Freedom is not Free of Dumb, and my Depression is Great. The last day on earth is something I face everyday. Duality has its purpose, and it has served it well in a place like this. I am a confession, that is waiting to be heard. When the soul is so digital, the body acts this way. "Then [comes the] Gurdian of Death and gone is all ferocity. All that is left is Them and the Almighty. I would pity them, but it is my own soul I must worry for constantly." You dress your verses so scantily? What of humanity? Why all this self-propriety? You choose the stand idly? While those around you suffer their own depravity? Is this your idea of Sikhi? This world of dire circumstance. Is it nothing more to you than a fading glance? I am not part of an -ism. This is what turns hate into a prism. I can play your games of riddle and rhyme. But your lyrics, many a poet would call a crime. But of course, that is my opinion, and yours is almost always against mine own. Why should we continue to argue if we fail to budge from these ledges we've built? I consider myself Sikh, and my Gurujis taught me to treat everyone with this same reverence. So in this light, I extend a bridge to your ledge. Let us just accept that we are in different stages of life, not one greater than the other, but equally different.... Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! So we can't believe in evolution then, right? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Why do you ask? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! As Sikhs, can we believe in evolution? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! you built me up with your wishing hell I didn't have to sell you you threw your money in the pissing well you do just what they tell you REPENT, that's what I'm talking about i shed the skin to feed the fake REPENT, that's what I'm talking about whose mistake am i anyway? Cut the head off Grows back hard I am the hydra now you'll see your star prick your finger it is done the moon has now eclipsed the sun the angel has spread its wings the time has come for bitter things Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Do animals believe in Waheguru? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Just smarter than what? Dolphins have the same sized brain as us. Size matters? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Define animal. Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! Do animals believe in Waheguru. Why or why not? Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!