Singh132

Vahiguru jee ka khalsa vahiguru jee kee fateh! I can't claim to be a spokesperson for the Gurdwara or the collective sangat who attends the gurdwara however this post has been brought to my attention and I will try my best to answer. Firstly, I think we can all agree that peshis in front of the Punj Pyare are to be kept gupt (unless in the rare occassion there is a larger overarching interest, like the safety of a person, or larger Panthic interest that Singhs doing seva have to determine for themselves). But I'm not sure what the purpose of such a post is besides creating controversy and dubidha. If the poster had a genuine concern, s/he could very easily go to the website and contact the gurdwara directly (all you had to do was google "gurdwara tapoban phone" and you would've found it. This type of exhibitionism is frankly a reflection of immaturity or something worse. I personally am not aware of anyone who does seva in the Punj Pyare divulging information outside of the amrit sinchar. That having been said, if there is such a concern, the proper approach is to raise it directly or come to the sangat and raise it. Even if it were true that someone was guilty of such a mistake (which I'm not aware of and doubt would be true), how would it reflect on the entire sangat at a gurdwara? Wouldn't that individual be blameworthy alone? I don't intend to reply further to this thread and would suggest it be closed as such discussions don't lend themselves to online forums. If you have a concern, you are most welcome to visit the gurdwara sahib or alternatively you can call 416-871-0182 and discuss it.

There was universal condemnation of the bombing in 2007. Even Babbar Khalsa condemned it. Sikhs can't be expected to keep condemning the same incident over and over again, years after they have been falsely accused of it: We don’t believe in violence: Babbar chief Sanjay Bumbroo Tribune News Service Amritsar, October 17 Deviating from their earlier stand, militant leaders of the Babbar Khalsa, UK-based Babbar Khalsa International and Dal Khalsa today severely condemned the recent bomb blast in Ludhiana, saying, “We don’t believe in violence.” The significant statement came from these militant leaders after the needle of suspicion in the recent bomb blast in a cinema hall of Ludhiana pointed towards the Babbar Khalsa International and other militant organisations based in various foreign countries. Wadhawa Singh Babbar, chief of Babbar Khalsa International, talking to The Tribune on phone said, “We are the Sikhs of Gurus and we feel pained whenever any innocent life is lost in violence anywhere in the world.” He said the recent attack was a dastardly act and the guilty should be punished as per the law of the land. He said the solution to any political or social problem should be found through democratic means, adding, “We don’t believe in violent activities.” Echoing similar views, Avtar Singh Sanghera and Manmohan Singh Khalsa, UK-based militant leaders of the Babbar Khalsa International and Dal Khalsa, respectively, said the bomb attack in the cinema hall of Ludhiana was shameful and should be condemned equivocally. The Sikh religion does not allow the killing of any innocent person, they added. These militant leaders are allegedly involved in the killing of hundreds of innocent persons during the two-decade turmoil in the state. They have sought political asylum in Pakistan, the UK and other western countries. Expressing sympathy with the bereaved families, they said the government should leave no stone unturned in apprehending the culprits responsible for the heinous crime. They said the government should pay compensation to the families of those killed in the blast.

I think all Sikhs would be united in saying that the Shingar Cinema blast was horrific and unacceptable. The question is who was responsible. Those who have been arrested previously for it including Gurpreet Singh Khalsa have said they had nothing to do with it. No Sikh group ever took responsibility for the blast nor praised it. The three others who were arrested were all injured in the Ashutosh clash in Ludhiana. GPS: it's unfortunate that you continue to smear and label people without proper background knowledge. Prof. Darshan actually spoke against the protestors and said both sides were dera-inspired and both wrong. These poor Singhs were beaten and shot at only to have people accuse them of being anti-Panthic? I think we should have a bit of shame when making such comments. There is no doubt that the Punjab Police more often than not falsely implicate young Sikhs and so it is only natural for the Sikh community to look at stories like this with a fair deal of scepticism.

Canada treating Indian agencies like KGB, says former Canadian health minister Ujjal Dosanjh Blasting the Canadian authorities for denying visas to Indian security officials, former Canadian health minister and Indo-Canadian leader Ujjal Dosanjh said Ottawa was treating the Indian security agencies like the erstwhile KGB. "Will they dare do this to the Chinese or Israelis? Never. I am very angry about how the Canadian government is treating individual members of Indian security agencies," he said. "By their action, the Canadian authorities have shown that they are treating India's Border Security Force (BSF) and the Intelligence Bureau like they treated the KGB. It is very embarrassing and India is justifiably angry," Dosanjh said. "Indian security agencies may have the same kind of operational difficulties that Israeli forces are going through in the Middle East. But Canadians dare not treat Israeli agencies the way are treating Indian agencies," he added. "This case shows that Citizenship and Immigration Canada (the department dealing with immigration and visa issues) is setting itself up as a judge on the entire democratic system in India. It is not acceptable at all," commented Dosanjh. Dosanjh, who in 2000 became Canada's first non-white premier (equal to chief minister in India) by getting elected to the top post in British Columbia province, said: "The Canadian authorities are inappropriately treating members of Indian security forces as a class. They are individuals and their cases should be dealt with individually. India is not perfect, nor is Canada." "Canada has to decide now whether they want to have any meaningful relationship with India. If they are serious, they will have to send a strong message to the missions in Delhi and elsewhere that it is inappropriate to treat members of security forces as a class. I justify India's anger," he went on to say.

GPS, You are either misguided or have a malicious agenda. You need to start reflecting more and talking less or perhaps your credibility might be brought into question. I have said it before and will say it again: WSO has never supported Darshan Ragi on an organizational level. Its official position is that Akal Takhat Sahib makes decision and the Panth follows them. We stand by what Sri Akal Takhat says. Once again, perhaps you should have the "sources" you mentioned earlier do some research on who is doing WSO's work these days. You might be surprised.

GPS, You seem to be constantly on a witch hunt. Who exactly is the "we" you refer to who is gathering facts and investigating etc? I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you, but I can assure you WSO is a voice of reason and plays a constructive role in promoting the interests of the Sikh community. WSO had units in USA and still has one in Canada. Both have operated more or less independently and the USA unit is currently inactive. Before maligning an Organization you should think very carefully what you are trying to accomplish. If you have a team of 'reliable sources' and you are 'gathering information' perhaps you could take a look at who the main workers for WSO currently are. You might be surprised to see just how Panthic they are. I personally support and work with WSO and if you do a bit of research I think you'll be hard pressed to show that I support Ragi or anything else you might deem 'anti-panthic'.

The World Sikh Organization of Canada has nothign to do with Darshan Ragi. I'm not sure why this issue is brought up in every single thread. If you look at the website, it says nothing in support of Ragi. There may be individual members who support Ragi but there are also many members who don't. When you have a large organization you can't control what everyone thinks. As an organization , no step has been taken to support Ragi. In terms of work WSO is doing, it's pressing several kirpan and other kakaar cases across Canada. It is is doing the most media work of any group in Canada as well. As for this controversy, it is a fabricated situation. Ujjal and Hayer love this. Vested interests want Sikhs to look violent and to fail the biggest parade in Canada because its success would make Sikhs look good. All we can do as a community is to make sure people who make senseless comments or can't control their tongue or otherwise act irrationally are not put in leadership positions. For heavens sake do not consider World sikh organization a firendly sikh organization anymore.They are the ones who supported blasphemy of ragi Darshan lal to hilt in Vancouver area.They name called akal takhat an dits jatehdars. Similar is gthe case of this Dashmesh darbar gurdwara in surrey. The best panthic organization in that area is new Gurudwara committee whom ousted moderates in surrey. WSO is a defunct organization for sikhs.

Kamal Nath – Invited to speak by the Canada India Business Council on March 23rd, 2010 at the Kind Edward Hotel, Downtown Toronto Minister Kamal Nath, who led a mob of 4000 people and attacked Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Sahib, burning several Sikhs alive, is coming to Toronto. Every Sikh has a duty to do something about this in memory of the thousands of our brothers and sisters who were butchered in November 1984. For more information on Kamal Nath please see http://www.sikhactivist.net/documents/KamalNathInfo.pdf. Here is what you can do: Cheklist: √ Step One: Email Event Sponsors: The sponsors consist of Macquarie, Bombardier, Bennett & Jones, BMO Capital Market and Government of Ontario. Macquarie ca-marketing@macquarie.com Bombardier Julie-ann julie-ann.mcpherson@bombardier.com Bennett And Jones mackinnonh@bennettjones.com, bowmans@bennettjones.com, mackinnonh@bennettjones.com, scottjen@bennettjones.com BMO Capital Market Renee Lantaigne renee.lantaigne@bmo.com Keep in mind some of these companies have business interest with India and we are NOT opposed to that, rather we only oppose this specific speaker. Proposed text for your letter can be as follows: >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sir/Madam, I am contacting you regarding this event your organization has sponsored. http://canada-indiabusiness.ca/2010/03/an-evening-with-minister-kamal-nath-the-future-of-indian-infrastructure-and-trade/ Kamal Nath, MP and Union Minister of India have participated and organized in the killings of innocent Sikhs on the streets of Indian capital Delhi in November, 1984 in which more than 3000 were reported dead. Evidence regarding Kamal Nath’s involvement includes testimony of a reputable journalist, testimony of Mukhtiar Singh and other employees of attacked Gurdawara, who saw Kamal Nath leading an armed mob that attacked and demolished Gurudwara in Rakab Ganj, Delhi. In that particular incident alone, several Sikhs were burnt alive by the mob lead by Kamal Nath. Canada, its government, legislature, constitution and its people are very sensitive to the issue of human rights abuses and genocide. I do not condemn your desire to engage and expand in business relations with India, rather I support it. But I do condemn your support of this Cold Blooded Killer and as a community expect you to take the most moral action. It is tempting to put financial gains in front of moral responsibilities, but at the end of the day, this is not right as Canadians. Tens of thousands of Sikhs have fled persecution in India to find freedom in Canada. Sikhs implore a company such as yours to adopt a more attentive approach to reviewing future high-profile event sponsorship requests. Canada has always served as a beacon of human rights, yet allowing politicians like Nath into the country implies tolerance of his crimes. Your company should highly reconsider its participation in this event and take steps to ensure that people like Kamal Nath and other perpetrators of egregious human rights violations are always banned from crossing Canadian borders. Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> √ Step Two: Call your Local MP and MPP. Look it up on Google. √ Step Three: Follow up with an email to your MP and MPP. I have attached a sample letter for your reference. Feel free to copy and paste this or change it around as you prefer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Member of Parliament, It has come to my attention that Kamal Nath has been invited by the Canada India Business Council to speak on March 23rd, 2010. There is substantial evidence concerning Mr. Nath’s participation in pogroms and I am disappointed that he is being allowed to speak. The Canadian Sikh community is deeply saddened that Nath, whose participation in the November 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom in India has been documented by numerous human rights organizations, will be allowed to enter Canada. Nath, who was then an MP, allegedly led a violent mob of 4,000 Hindus which destroyed Gurdwara Rakab Ganj in New Delhi. Despite eyewitness testimony that Nath “was controlling the crowd,” he was never indicted for his role in the three day pogrom during which at least 3,000 Sikh men, women and children were brutally murdered. By providing him with a stage, you are sending the wrong message to the world community about Torontonians values and those of the Canadian people. Sikh community organizations have also protested visits by Kamal Nath to the United States, including his 2008 speech at Northwestern University in Illinois. Some Western nations, including the U.S. and Britain, have denied visas to other Indian politicians guilty of crimes against humanity. Notably, in October 2009, British authorities denied a visa for former Indian Cabinet Minister Jagdish Tytler, who organized bloodthirsty crowds to exterminate Sikhs in 1984. Similarly, in 2008 a group of American organizations banned together to demand the denial of an entry visa to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi for his role in the 2002 riots. There is not doubt that had a an organization invited Adolf Hitler to speak in Toronto, or anywhere in Canada, that his entry would be denied without question, and Sikh-Canadians are demanding the same respect. Tens of thousands of Sikhs have fled persecution in India to find freedom in Canada. Sikhs implore its Government to adopt a more attentive approach to reviewing future high-profile visa requests. Canada has always served as a beacon of human rights, yet allowing politicians like Nath into the country implies tolerance of his crimes. You should strongly consider taking action against this matter and take steps to ensure that Kamal Nath and other perpetrators of egregious human rights violations are always banned from crossing Canadian borders. Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your email should address the correct issue with each level of Government. We are upset with Federal MP’s for allowing him into the country and upset with Provincial MPP’s for sponsoring the event. √ Step Four: Email two parliamentary committee’s Justice and Human Rights FastE@parl.gc.ca, MenarSe@parl.gc.ca, MurphB@parl.gc.ca, comarJ@parl.gc.ca, LemayM@parl.gc.ca, PetitD@parl.gc.ca, JenniM@parl.gc.ca, MooreR@parl.gc.ca, Rathgeber.B@parl.gc.ca, LeblaD@parl.gc.ca,NorloR@parl.gc.ca, Woodworth.S@parl.gc.ca Citizen and Immigration TilsoD@parl.gc.ca, BevilM@parl.gc.ca, StcyrT@parl.gc.ca, Calandra.P@parl.gc.ca, DykstR@parl.gc.ca, ThilaE@parl.gc.ca, Chowo@parl.gc.ca, GrewaN@parl.gc.ca, Wong.A@parl.gc.ca, CoderD@parl.gc.ca,KarygJ@parl.gc.ca, Young.T@parl.gc.ca Use the same letter that you send to your Federal MP. √ Step Five: This step will involve emailing journalist, news reporters and other mainstream media outlets. Stay tuned for more details. Please forward this to 5-10 people in your immediate circle who YOU can guarantee will help with this sewa Conclusion: Some of our grandparents, parents, friends and relatives experienced the pain of 1984 first-hand and came to Canada to provide a better life for the generation of Sikhs to come like you and I. As young Canadian Sikhs, we have the world of opportunity in our hands. We are an intelligent, educated and powerful young Sikh community and this is the absolute lease we can do for our panth and for the respect of our history. Fighting against injustice and human rights violations and standing up for what is right and the core fundamentals upon which Sikhism was established. From Guru Nanak Dev Ji who spread the message of peace and brotherhood, to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who sacrificed himself for the rights of other – Sikhism is deeply and heavily rooted with the ideals of doing what is right and just. I encourage all of everyone to stand up, be heard and make a difference. This is chance is yours, this choice is yours

Rather than criticizing the theory and condeming people doing "shanka" of "our history", why not actually rebut the article with arguments or facts. What in the article seems un-true to you? Is the part about Kavi Santokh Singh saying the foundation was laid by Guru Arjan false, or is the part about no Sikh history prior to Butay Shah ( a Muslim Maulvi) saying Sain Mian Mir laid the foundation false? Use rational arguments rather than random accuasations and calls about "shanka" being done. Madanjit Kaur is not alone as this fact has been accepted by Piara Singh Padam and others.

Only five, Read the shabad. Guru Sahib has repeatedly re-defined religious terms. In Sukhmani Sahib he re-defined terms like Pandit, Baishno, etc. These were all religious paths. Same in the shabad you have pasted. If a follower of those faiths were to accept Guru Sahib's advice then they would no longer be Muslims but be following the path of Gurmat. Once a Muslim has replaced the foundations of his faith ie. Koran, Kaaba, Mosque,fasting etc. with Guru Sahib's listed alternatives (mercy, faith, modesty, God's bhana/hukam) , he is no longer following Muhammed's Islam but instead has adopted Gurmat.

This is an example of classic divide and rule that Sikhs let happen all so often. I agree and accept that Babbu Maan is not a Gursikh. But at the same time he represents what Punjab's youth is like. The youth have love, respect and care for Sikhi in their heart whether they are keshdhari/amritdhari or not. Maan's songs reflect the voice and thoughts of every day Punjab's youth and the genuine Panthic concern they have. I think this whole S. Dhandrianvala vs. Mann issue is useless. Maan hasn't mentioned S. Dhadrianvala in the song. The song should apply just as easily to Raam Rahim or Bhaniara vala. I think everyone with knowledge of Sikh issues recognizes that Baba-ism is a big problem that is a corrupting influence. It doesn't mean that genuine parcharaks are bad but at the same time, we can't turn a blind eye to Babas running personality cults. Babbu Maan's songs are pro-Sikh (and also, importantly, anti-Indian establishment), whether he fits our ideal of a Sikh or not is not the issue. S. Dhadrianvalay also has a huge following and is doing good work. Maan's latest record was a good opportunity to use his very popular persona to educate and bring awareness to the youth in Punjab but instead, it's being used as a tool to split Sikhs into pro-Maan and pro-Dhadrianvala groups, when the two don't have opposite interests here. We let this sort of splitting happen all the time, be it on the lines of Jathebandis, or keshdhari/mona or even amritdhari vs. the rest. All of us who call ourselves Sikh have a lot more in common than we realize and we accomplish nothing by being divided against each other. I'll let you all think who IS gaining though. Doesn't take a genius.

Having a program at the Kala-Afghana ideology-associated Sikh Lehar Centre, which very clearly on their website have recordings of Ghagga, Prof. Darshan Singh and Veer Bhupinder, is shameful. I'm sure many members of the AKJ sangat in Toronto do believe in Dasam Bani and include them in their nitnem. The purpose of this post is to alert them as to the actions of the organizers of AKJ Toronto programs. Organizers of AKJ Toronto have already done kirtan at the Sikh Lehar Centre in the past, sharing stage time with the likes of Veer Bhupinder on the opening day. But now they have scheduled a program during a time when many of the international sangat is in Toronto for the annual smagam. The sangat needs to be informed of what the Sikh Lehar Centre is and what it stands for. Having a program at a Centre which opposes Dasam Bani and such key concepts like Naam Simran and Nitnem is unacceptable. The name 'Akhand Kirtani Jatha' has a great significance in the Panth. It means something. Associating that name with the neo-Sikh Ghagga type of ideology is unacceptable. If the organizers wanted to have a kirtan at the Centre, that would be their unfortunate decision, but when they do it under the name Akhand Kirtani Jatha, then they've made it a much broader issue which cannot be ignored.

AKJ Toronto has scheduled a program at the Sikh Lehar Centre (see below, pasted from http://www.akj.org/skins/one/programs.php?...mp;city=Toronto ) Jul 05 2009 to Jul 05 2009 Akhand Keertan 5:00 PM to 8:30 PM Gurooduaaraa Saheb-Sikh Lehar Center 79 Bramsteele Rd., Brampton, Ontario, L6W3K6 Please click here for the directions... For more information please call 905.451.3335 or 416.616.4882 The Sikh Lehar Centre opposes Sri Dasam Granth, Dasam Banis and even key Gurmat concepts like naam simran and nitnem. On the Sikh Lehar Centre website at http://www.sikhlehar.com/, you can see they have posted audio files of prominent anti-Dasam Granth and neo-Sikh activist Inder Ghagga. Ghagaa was recently in the news for having created a new ardaas in Finland. There are also recordings of Prof. Darshan Singh, another anti-Dasam Granth spokesperson. At the opening of the Sikh Lehar Centre, Veer Bhupinder Singh another reformist neo-Sikh who has attempted to change the Anand Kaaraj ceremony was invited to do kirtan. It is a shame that AKJ Toronto has taken this step. Having a program at a Gurdwara with clear links to the Kala Afghana ideology is unacceptable and a disgrace to the name Akhand Kirtani Jatha. Organizing a program at the Sikh Lehar Centre amounts support to supporting the Kala Afghana ideology. The AKJ Toronto group does not represent the ideology of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh never opposed Sri Dasam Granth and in fact often provided references from it. Bhai Sahib and his companions included numerous banis from Dasam Bani in their nitnem including banis like Akaal Ustat Gian Prabodh, and Chandi Di Vaar. For a list of Bhai Sahib's references to Dasam Bani, please see http://www.akhandkirtanijatha.org/literatu...GranthSahib.pdf. The organizers at AKJ Toronto should be contacted by the Sangat and urged to cancel this program. Attending a program at the Sikh Lehar Centre amounts to supporting the Kala Afghana cause and should therefore be avoided.

This is a fictional short story by Pritpal Singh Bindra.