JSingh

Sorry folks, I am stuck on something really really important that I have to complete and will get back to this and other thread as soon as I get done... may take a while.

Bijla Singh Ji, I have read the justification of your Piara Singh Padam on Dasam Granth in The Khalsa Fauj's post. I have learned everything about you and him. Its like a mona person justifying cutting of his hair by saying, "kesan che ki rakheya, dil saaf hona chahida. sikhi tan andar aa." No matter what you say, that person will never listen. Majority of Dasam Granth's (title NOT given by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji) writings is anti-gurmat, but Piara Singh Ji keeps justifying it by absurd arguments. To me, it looks like Piara Singh Padam has joined with Baba Virsa Singh and Ashutosh. Please do not fall into their trap... and see the reality as is. I have one more question for you. Will you be able to read the writings of dasam granth, such as in that pdf file (Dasam Granth Asli Roop), in front of your family (mother, sister, brother, father, etc. etc.)? If you answer is yes, then I will for you and your audience.

Khalsa Ji, please read the "bani" of dasam granth from the pdf file (Dasam Granth Asli Roop) and can you please explain what you did you "digest" out of that... Would you call it the bani of Dasam Patshah? My comments may be "manmatti", but read the whole triachritr that this chaupaee is a part of and then decide yourself. bhul chuk di maafi...

Prabhjoyt Singh Ji, Jaap Sahib and Swaye are in the first 39 pages and is baani, and same is true with Chaupaee, "Parnvo Aad ai-kan-kara, jal thal mahial....." wali. But the other Chaupee, "Hamri Karo hath de rachha..." is a part of Triachritr. bhul chuk di maafi...

Bhaji, I totally understand where you are coming from. But sometimes when our beliefs shatter, it hurts toooooooooooooo much, but then from that phase of life, a new life is born. Bhaji, as I said before, the only bani that is at question is Chaupaee Sahib. When we read the whole Triacharitr which this chauapee is a part of, you will understand what it is talking about. This charitr talks about sooo much nonsense, its the fight between surs (devtey) and asurs (rakhshash), Sri Asudhuj (as it appears in chaupee too, Sri Asudhu ju kario racha) is a jamdoot who saved surs and had s-ex with durga to save her life when she was fed up drinking asurs' blood. It also talks about a Tapasvee doing bhagti of Durga for 147,000 on one leg and that same tapasvee came in Kaliyug as Guru Gobind Singh. Do you believe that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji did bhagti of this durga for 147,000 on one leg??? Its nonsense. The writer on chapauee is aksing Asudhuj to save his life, the bad guy, the jamdoot. If it were written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, Guru Sahib would have asked Akal Purukh to protect him, not Asudhuj. There are soooo many other things that I don't have time to talk acout at this moment, maybe some other day.... I say that again, don't believe me, find out urself. bhul chuk di khima...

palamrinder Ji, I totally understand what you are saying and I respect your concerns and views. I was used to think exacly like you about two or so years ago. I was hurt too, but we do not have to worry about anything cuz we have our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And about 5 Banis, the only bani that is at question is Chaupaee Sahib. Jaap Sahib and Twaprasad Swaye fall under first 39 pages. We do not have any historical record which banis were read during Amrit Sanchar in 1699 by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Some scholors say all banis were read from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Other view is that the 4th bani was Shabad Hazarey, not chaupee Sahib. If we want to talk about what we have been listening from elders and doing what they have been doing, then what is the justification of doing Aarti in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at hazoor sahib in a plate (thaali) with many deevey lit inside it and pouring desi geo in them??? Raagis are singing "Gagan mein thall rav chand deepak...." and another amritdhar Sikh stands in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with thaali in his hands and is doing Aarti justl like Hindus do infront of a Moorti. Bhaji do you think we should keep doing this aarti infront of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Hazoor Sahib cuz we have been doing it for, lets say, over a century or so???? It was Guru Nanak Dev Ji who taught the pandits that this is not the way Akal Purukh's aarti is done, its been done as Guru Sahib explained in that Shabad. This is just one instance. We can either keep following the old rituals that we are strictly prohibitted to perform and keep following those "banis" that go directly against Sri Guru Granth Sahib's philosophy OR follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and rewrite our history. The choice is in our hands. Whether we do it today or tomorrow, we have to do it. There is soooo much going on. We are all tangeled in sooo much stuff. The only way to get out of eveything and start living a Sikh Way of Life is to follow Sri Guru Granth Sabhi Ji and reject any and everything that goes against it, let it be any practice or any "bani". And finally, I request everyone not to believe me, I may be 100 and 10 percent wrong. Do your own research and reach the bottom of the truth. bhul chuk di khima....

Very good question bhaji. Chaupaee Sahib is not just by itself. Its a part of last Chritropakhyan. We have to look at chaupaee sahib in the context it which it was written. We have to translate the whole Triachritr and look at the whole picture and then we will see what actually chaupee sahib is taking about. Please do not ask me my opinio on it. Extensive research has been done on Dasam Granth and Chaupee sahib by contemporaty scholors. I was also hurt when i found out the truth about these things, but again, at the end of the day, truth is truth, as it always was and always will be, but its only a matter of time that keeps the people in darkness. Now even Professor Darshan Singh has declaired that only first 39 pages of Dasam Granth can be called written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and we can read them but still this is not our Guru because Gurgaddi was given ONLY to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Dasam Granth Controversy arose right from the day when it came into existence, in 1734: THE DASAM GRANTH: A view from another angle M A Macauliffe In the year A.D. 1734 while in Amritsar Bhai Mani Singh compiled the compositions and translations of Guru Gobind Singh and of the bards who were associated with him. The compilation was subsequently known as the Granth of the Tenth Guru, though Mani Singh did not give it that title. After Mani Singh's execution the Sikhs took the volume for examination and approval to a village in the Patiala State called Talwandi Sabo, now known among the Sikhs as Damdama. Damdama was selected as several learned Sikhs resided there, and that distant village was also deemed a place of safety. Several intelligent Sikhs were of opinion, that the tales and translations in the volume, as at present found, ought not to have been included in it, for many of them are of Hindu origin, others not fit for perusal, and none comparable with the hymns contained in the Adi Granth. The Sikhs therefore maintained that the Hikayat or Persian tales, and the whole of the Tria Charitar, or stories illustrating the deceit of women, should be omitted, and included in a separate volume, which might be read, not for a religious purpose, but for the entertainment and delectation of the public. While this discussion was in progress, one Mahtab Singh of Mirankot arrived from Bikkaner, at Damdama. He had vowed to kill one Massa Ranghar, a Muhammadan official, who had obtained possession of the Golden Temple, and who used the place as a theatre for dancing women; and he was on his way to Amritsar to carry out his design. Mahtab Singh vowed that if he succeeded and returned to Damdama, Mani Singh's Granth should remain in one volume as he had arranged it. If, on the contrary, Massa killed him, the Granth might be arranged according to the wishes of the objectors. Mahtab Singh slew Massa Ranghar, returned in triumph to Damdama, and Mani Singh's Granth was allowed to remain according to his design. There are many obvious defects in the arrangement of the Tenth Guru's Granth as it stands. For instance, there are several questions put in dohras 201 to 210 of the Akal Ustat to which no answer is given. Chhands 211 to 230 are obviously out of place, and belong to the second Chandi Charitar; and the last Chhand of the Akal Ustat is not complete. The Gyan Parbodh too has been left incomplete. There are besides many defects of arrangement. M A Macauliffe, The Sikh Religion, Vol 5, pg 260. First published around 1900. http://allaboutsikhs.com/articles/dasamgranth.htm The Zafarnama is at the end of "Dasam Granth" is believed to be written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha wrote in one of his books that Bhai Mani Singh did a very bad thing by bringing in Dasam Granth into Sikh panth. But now here is something to think about this: How can a mahaan Gursikh like Bhai Mani Singh, well educated person who wrote Beerhs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, do such a misleading deed? The contemporary scholors are doing research and declaired that it was not collected and put together by Bhai Mani Singh, but only his name was used to defame him. There is sooooooo much done to us to destroy our originality and turn us against each other. We need to wake up and separate water from milk (dudh chon paani vakhra karna) and bring up the truth and live it...

I am quite amazed at your justification of the bad stuff that is written in Dasam Granth. Most of the Dasam Granth is anti-gurmat, leavin a few pages aside ( only about 3% of dasam granth that is "believed to be" written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji). Nobody is focusing on the words, please read the whole thing and you will get the entire picture. It is soooooooo sad to know that a Sikh (you) is calling it a bani of Guru Sahib. How can you associate the bad stuff written in Dasam Granth with Guru sahib. Do you think our Guru Sahib can ever say these things or use these words???? It is shame for a Sikh to even think of this even in his dream. Please try to accept the truth and face it. Dasam Granth does not contain the writings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, leaving a few pages aside. Period. Now you will ask the proof? Ask Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Put it on a test and see if it passes..... You will see it yourself..... anyone else still things these things are written by Guru Sahib, please let me know??? oh ya... Baba Virsa Singh does, Ashutosh does, and many other anti-sikh forces do... It is soooooo sad that even Sikhs started preaching the same thing....... Wake up folks and follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and forget about Dasam Granth do not associate it with Dasam Patshah.... I know its hard to accept the truth, but we have to swallow it. Its a painful gulp, but we have to take it...today or tomorrow, we have to do it... Accepting the truth and walking forward is the only way to successful and bright future, otherwise, history will repeat itself, as it did in the past. bhul chuk di khima... [This post has been edited and bad words have been removed]

First of all, this radio talk show should not have taken place. If both of these guys had something agaist each other they should have resolved it when Bhai Ranjit Singh visited canda. Its true that Ranjit Singh admitted what he did was wrong and did not know much at that time, but at the same time, if we take both of these guys' arguments, Prof. Darshan Singh had several valid points. Prof. Darshan Singh asked Bhai Ranjit Singh not to go to any Deewan where there are posters that have "Sant Baba Ranjit Singh" on them and tell the organizers that he doesn't know who "Sant" Ranjit Singh is, I'm Bhai Ranjit Singh and therfore, I'm not coming to this deewan. Prof. asked Bhai Sahib to say these words several times in the talk show, but Bhai Ranjit Singh Ji did not respond to his question, but kept insisting that he did not ask anyone to call him Sant. If people were writing "Sant" word on the posters without his permission, and if Bhai Ranjit Singh refuses to go to such deewans, right from that day, the Sant word will become "Bhai". The entier talk show revolved around two issues, (1) "Dhaarna" and (2) use of the word "Sant" with his name. All the great sants in Sikh history used dhaarna to convey the meaning of a particular shabad, and then read the shabad. These issues have to be resolved at Panthic level and should not become 'radio talk shows'. apologize me if i offended anyone. i'm not saying what i said is right, but thats what i got out of the talk show... people may have different opinions.

“My previous post made it clear what Bhagtee and Shaktee is and I gave few examples. Name of Waheguru on our lips and sword in our hand. 500 years of history shows how sikhs have fought in the battlefield. All of Dasam Granth is work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. (Bhai Piara Singh Padam)” Bhai Sahib, I understand that Bhagti and Sakti go side by side, as taught by our sixth Guru Sahibaan, Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji. As always, first thing first. We cannot even improve our own situations and conditions, our own people, our own institutions, Gurdwara management, discrepancies in our historical records, and a whole a lot more. We cannot go and fight outer forces when our internal conflicts are eating us up corrosively. Reply to your Dasam Granth statement is give at the end of this post. “understand the purpose of khalistan first before you make assumptions that we have no love for god or we have some political agenda. Guru Ji was strong in simran but he spoke about having a separate country. all religions flourished with countries. Guru Ji turned Sikhs into saints and soldiers. fighting for our rights, seeking justice and securing our future is all part of Khalistan” So you are trying to find a country for those people who are fighting among themselves, who are assigned one path but still traveling in ten different directions? There is always a right time and space for something to happen. No matter how hard one tries, things wont take place before the prescribed time/space. Rather than improving ourselves first and then our community, some of us are going after outsiders for khalistan, which is very absurd. Rather than fighting for khalistan, we should all strive to be khalsa first. Awpu svwrih mY imlih mY imilAw suKu hoie ] aap savaarehi mai milehi mai miliaa sukh hoe || God says, ""If you reform yourself, you shall meet me, and meeting me, you shall be at peace. PrIdw jy qU myrw hoie rhih sBu jgu qyrw hoie ]95] fareedhaa jae thoo maeraa hoe rehehi sabh jag thaeraa hoe ||95|| O Fareed, if you will be mine, the whole world will be yours.""||95|| You don’t want to fight for khalistan and hand it over to sheep and goats , are you? Have you head the sakhi about Guru Gobind Singh Ji and lion skin on donkey? And can you please provide me the reference to Gurbani where Guru Sahib spoke of “having a separate country”? Do you know the dohra we read in Ardas everyday that goes like this “Raaj karega Khasla, aaki rahe na koye……” Do you know what this dohra means and who will rule? The Khalsa. Now you tell me, should we and help others to strive to become Khalsa so that we can deserve to do Raaj, or fight and die for Khalistan? Khalsa will rule ONLY and ONLY when there is Khalsa. Nothing is hidden from anybody what is going on in our community. Name anything and we will get it right on our face. “you make me laugh. you reminded me of a nihung singh. he came to our house and said he was also a "desi doctor". that day my mother was little sick so he gave her some medicine. my mother had the pill in her hand and the nihung asked "feeling better?" my mother said that she hadn't taken the medicine yet. then she took the pill and as she finished drinking water he asked again "feeling better now?" i couldn't stop laughing. the doctor knows better than anyone else that any pill will take some time before the patient starts feelingbette...” I’m glad at least I made you laugh... :doh: Next time, make a smart choice and find a medical doctor for your family... “so you are like that nihung singh” Let me know when you get sick next time “You talk about naam simran but have no idea of how Waheguru works.” Did you learn from Dasam Granth how Waheguru works? “r`b dI c`kI cldI qW hOlI Aw pr pINhdI bhuq brIk Aw” pr AsIN dwixAW dI QW b`ty pw rhy AW. pIhx l`gy vI muSkl qy pIx l`gy vI[ Hopefully you understand the meaning behind it. “Sikhs gave many shaheedis for the true cause and truth has always been victorious but it takes time. fights for independence last long time. more shaheedis Sikhs give stronger the country will be. Great Gursikhs fought for khalistan and gave their lives for khalistan otherwise they wouldn't have joined the freedom groups. poems written by Baba Manochahal clearly show that he was fighting for khalistan” Our Shaheeds are our Heroes and they will be remembered throughout the history and I salute them all. You are just looking at only one side of the issue, but Khalistan requires attention from all aspects that you are not seeing. We will talk about it later below “this is just one example, let me know if you want more. what else would you link them with? congress?” wow.... where did that come from? I respect and salute their shaheedi more than anything I can think of. They were great souls. I do not link them with anything, but with Guru Sahib. Thande dimaag naal sochan di koshish karo bhaji. “maybe you are unaware of our history but shaheedis are backbone of khalsa panth. Shaheedi is the last resort. Bhai Sukhdev Singh couldn't get caught for 14 years. do you think he couldn't think outside the box? if he only wanted to die he wouldn't have lasted this long. he fought the way Guru Ji taught Sikhs. he used every method to serve the panth. at last he gave his life. Bhai Sukha Jhinda gave their lives to energize the shaheedi spirit. Our political fight is fight of Akal Takhat Sahib. it may be dirty to you but pure to me. Sikhs have never fought in anger and never will. it is your misunderstanding so take a hard look at the reality. Our enemies are those who are against Sikhi wherever they may be.” Our Gurus fought several wars, but did not create their own territory or “khalistan”. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was successful for creating the Khalsa Raj, but how long did it last? Do you want to create a Khalistan that will die just like his Raaj, due to our own folks.? Fighting for human rights and khalistan are two different things. Believe me, even if khalistan came into existance (which is totally impossible due to our current situation), our situation will become much worse. We know our human rights were violated, we were butchered and tortured and have to fight for human rights, but these things should not be the only things to consider for the creation of khalistan, an independent nation.. Look at every country’s needs, facilities, airport, medical, machinery, natural resources like diesel, petrol, and a whole lot issues. Do you think Pakistan, India, or US is going to provide us all that? These are only a few things to name and the list is endless. All these and lot more things need to be considered in advance. Do you think after khalistan, India will let us visit our Gurdwaras? At this present time, we need Khalsa and Khalsa Spirit and with these things, Khalistan will follow. In order to achieve the former, we need to reform ourselves, our own community, and our own problems. “The most serious problem is that you are mixing Sikhs and government agents. We need to solve issues for sure but a separate country guarantees that the solution will be reached. When Sikhs called Sabrat Khalsa they talked about issues and resolved them. Only jathedars were allowed to enter and they had to provide a secret password. This way no agents could enter and cause trouble. 13 colonies had numerous problems but they locked up all the leaders in a big hall and solved all the issues one by one. people who fought each other in elections are not sikhs in any way. they were sell-outs. it all depends on your mentality. if you think sikhs will do the way you think then it is not my fault but I certainly would not do it nor do i think other sikhs will do it. only true sikhs can solve the issues not sell outs” I’m glad to see that you have made distinction between Sikhs and sell-outs. We are fighting in our Gurdwaras all over the world, pulling each other’s beards and turbans. We are in a situation that we cannot even solve issues at a smaller scale, how can we solve them at a larger level. If you are saying we need Khalistan to solve our issues, do we need smaller versions of khalistan, mini-khalistans, to solve our Gurdwara issues all over the world? We don’t even know the true version of our history and we have believed what we have been hearing for centuries and when someone speaks out the truth, we, the entire Sikh community gangs up starts bashing him without knowing the truth, and excommunicate him from the Panth. I have done that same thing in the past due to the lack of “knowing the truth” and following the crowd. But when we find out the truth, we regret, as is the case with several people like me. And believe me Bijla Singh Ji, you will feel the same same when you’ll find out the truth about Dasam Granth and other issues later in life. Joginder Singh Vedanti is a very knowledgeable and brilliant person, but he is sold out to Indian Government. Do you think these kinds of Jathedars will keep the secret password to themselves, even after the creation of khalistan? How do you know that jathedars in khalistan won’t be traitors? Things work great in theory, we’ll do this and that, but when we look at the real picture, our present condition, things are pitch dark. The biggest problem of our community is that we are listing less to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and more to the Sants. This is one of the prominent things that have divided up the Sikh Sangat (not the furum) in general. Two Sikhs’ views do not match due to the two different “sants” or jathebanies they have been following. We are going to have same problems in Khalistan. Akal Takhat can issue a Hukamnana, but all Siks won’t follow them due to their jathebandi or Sant they are associated with. We give high priority and greater credibility to the words and teachings of a deredar or sant and less to our Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sikh community need to be united under the teachings of our Guru and then this flow one day will definitely rule because thats what Khalsa is made for, Raj karega Khalsa. “They [misls] did not die off. They joined each other and established more powerful country. so all jathas need to join together and work things out but to think that issues must be solved before all jathas unite is foolish.” But the question is still standing at the same point. How long did the Khalsa Raj under Sher-E-Punjabi last? Why did it die off so soon, right after him? Who is to blame, us Sikhs or Indian Gov’t? We do not want Khalistan to end up and die just like Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s Raaj after his death. We do not want to make unparallel sacrifices for such a Raj that even the generations of the shaheed won’t be able to see it due to its short-lived existence. Please try to think big bhai sahib. “Why not? It is not my purpose. I joined their purpose and their mission. They fought for khalistan and died for khalistan. Read Bhai Anokh Singh Ji's shaheedi and hopefully you will see how this singh was absorbed in naam simran and gave his life for khalistan. a person can be one with waheguru but unless he stands up and fights for his rights he will be burnt alive in the streets of delhi after seeing his women being dishonored by gangs.” As I said before, fighting for human rights and fighting for khalistan issue are two different things. Creation of khalistan requires more consideration. I understand that these Singhs had unbelievable Khalsa spirit that drived them for a cause, but we also have to look at our present situation too before we think of khalistan as we have discussed above. “and tell me what should the sikhs in france do? they have sharan of Guru Ji but should they not fight for their rights? if yes then that is what Sikhs are doing in Punjab” Sikhs in France are fighting for human rights not for Khalistan that “hey, french gov’t, you have violated our rights and now we deserve khalistan (“mini-khalistan” in France) and we will die for it because we have fighting spirit”. It will be foolish to do that. “I am not telling Guru Ji anything. According to Him a community establishes a country with power. Guru Ji gave us the power to establish our country. we need to use it right.” But first, we have to deserve it, right? Its like a little child who is asking for sweets from his mother, but the mother won’t give him cuz she knows what’s better for her child. If we spend the time and energy that we are wasting discussing khalistan to improve our community, we will get closer to Khalsa Raj, but discussing and fighting for khaslistan won’t earn us a darn thing. “Everything a Sikh does leads to Khalsa Raaj. His naam simran, fights for rights, and justice is everything Khalsa Raaj needs. we can educate others and preach sikhi but then again it is our fight for survival. Whether you use pen or gun, it is a fight. Gursikhs don't sit around and wait for things to happen. they make things happen.” First sentence is just not true. Please read it again. And why not we do what we need to do which will take us closer to khalistan? If you understand that we need to “educate others and preach sikhi”, then why to waste energy to fight for khalistan, but instead do Sikhi da parchar. Fighting and preaching khalistan is never going to get us khalistan. Paani paani kehn naal payas nahi bujh jandi. Paani peen naal bujegi. In the same way, following Sikhi and doing Sikhi parchar will get us closer to becoming Khalsa and then one day, that Khalsa will do Rule. Any major (even minor) decision has to be made from a deliberate and conscious mind, not from an emotional one. Emotional decisions always bring devastation. “We need to educate our youth, bring them into sikhi, get rid of sgpc and establish a new system for Gurdwaras. I agree with all but then why stop speaking for our rights? If you have your own country you can change laws and make improvements but when others control your country you don't have much to say. GOI controls our system. Khalistan is our need for survival. setting up a better system is prereq.” Now you are saying you want to get rid of SGPC, but it was very very successful and did an exceptional job when it came into existence in early 1900’s. What happened to it now? Why do you want to over throw it and create a new one? Now here is something to consider: Do you want to create a Khalistan that will work great in its initial stage, but slow get corrupted, just like SGPC and then you will fight and die to get rid of it and create a new khalistan? Just give it a thought. “This I agree with. The way I look at it: We need Khalistan but before that we need to: 1) Become Sikhs - keeping the rehat given by panj pyare is the bare minimum. 2) Educate others about Sikhi and our history 3) Control our gurdwaras and establish better management system 4) use gurdwara money to setup sikh institutions and take control of our colleges and universities” Ok, but in all your posts you have been insisting about fighting and dying for khalisting from the very beginning and never wanted to reform oneself and our community, but finally you agreed that we need to work on the 4 things you mentioned before we think of the khalistan. Then what is the problem? Why are we wasting time for fighting and dying for khalistan when we see millions of “to do” things lying ahead of us which require our immediate attention and if we don’t do those here and now, we have to suffer unrecoverable damage to ourselves and our future generations because past shapes the present, and present makes the future. Dasam Granth Ahhhh....... what can I say.... Bijla Singh Ji, you are in a major misunderstanding and believing blinding in Dasam Granth. I am 110% sure that you have not read it. Please try to find out the truth about something before reaching a conclusion. You have no idea what is written in Dasam Granth. Rather than relying on someone else’s (Piara Singh Padam) resources, do your own research and then reach the conclusion. I uploaded the pdf file that has some quations from so called “Dasam Granth”. Can you please translate them for me and also tell me if you still call this Dasam Patshah's bani? bhulan chukkan di maafi je kise da dil dukheya hove.... take care for now..... Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Dasam_Granth_Asli_Roop.pdf

Thanks Simran9 for the emails. I'll check them. Thanks Bijla Singh for the link. If you have the paintings, please scan them and email them to me. my email is in my profile. thanks folks! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Few months back I read an article online that had picture drawings how indian police tortured the Sikhs, like rolling a thick log on the back of their legs (ghotna), electric shots, and hanging then down with their arms. can somone point me to that link and post some links for more pictures please? i need this infor asap. Thanks.

yaar no question is stupid question. if you don't know it, you don't know it. when we got our first computer, in 1998, i asked my teacher who helped us buy and hook it up, "how do i turn it off"? my friend was standing right next to me and he stated laughing at me and i felt sooooo bad....

No kissing or anything like that is allowed before marriage. period. If they think they kissed cuz they wanna get married in the future, but what if that does not happen for some reason? Remember: It's not done until it is done. Won't they feel disgusted and guilty in their conscious that they have made a mistake that is considered very sick and dirty before marriage, the thing that only a couple is allowed to do. What if one of the person dies and the other has to marry someone else. Then won't that person feel guilty? If they both are Amritdhari then they should already know this. Some Sikh girls and guys are looking for Amritdhari parters to marry cuz they don't do these thigns before marriage and they are virgins, but if Amrtidhaaris' stated doing these silly thigns before marriage, this trust will go straight into toilet. wake up folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry if i offeded anyone with my tone.....

Good question!