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  1. 6 points
    What about Gurbani? I never said we should change Gurbani, because we can’t. But we can remove Perso-Arabic influences from our vernacular. And when did I say that we should all begin to speak Hindi and Sanskrit, no that’s a terrible idea. We need to revise Punjabi, and you can call me whatever you like, but I firmly stand by that. Have you forgotten that the very tyrants that killed our Gurus, the Sahibzaades, slaughtered our men, our women, and children, sold our ancestors as slaves, pillaged our land for centuries imposed Perso-Arabic influences onto our language. If we have any ounce of self respect, we should purge those influences from our language. How am I demoting Punjabi? How am I saying we should stray away from Gurmukhi? In fact if you read any of my other threads you will realize I advocate further development of Gurmukhi and Punjabi. Why are you accusing me of things that I am opposed against in the first place?
  2. 6 points
    If we perceive this from the traditional Santaan school of thought, then of course this aphorism seems self-contradictory. Gurmat, though, differs from Sanataan Mat in that that it perceives attachment to the world to be false rather than the world (creation) itself. Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh reminds the Khalsa that Sri Akal Purakh Vaheguru is embedded in the very microcosms of their creation and will ultimately triumph over all man-made institutes/ hegemonies. The Khalsa, according to Jagjit Singh ("Percussions of History," "In the Caravan of Revolutions") is the climax of Sikh mysticism in all fields. Upon it's manifestation, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji bequeathed it with the slogan of "Vahguru Ji Ka Khalsa; Vahguru Ji Ki Fateh."If translated, this means: "The Khalsa belongs to God; triumph belongs to God." The slogan invokes dual emotions in Sikhs. The first emotion is that of optimism as the Khalsa's cause is, essentially, God's cause and will eventually succeed. The second is that of humility. Only via God's grace is triumph achieved and not through any personal efforts. Furthermore, the Khalsa being the only army of the Divine makes it perennial. It is universal in character, ubiquitous in disposition and fundamentally humanistic in approach; as such it belongs to no one nation, community or era.
  3. 5 points
    Exactly. To be proud of one's language we should strive to speak words from our own language. Rabb is a commonly heard word in our community, but many do not know that it is Arabic. We can use indigineous words such as Ishwar or Parmatma instead during daily discourse. It's actively trying to bring back words that we used but were forced to extinction in our language because of violent invaders.
  4. 5 points
    The question would be are there arab loanwords that can be gotten rid off if we have perfectly good indigenous words we could use instead. For example, should we use sansaar instead of duniya. What other words could we replace if it is already in our vocabulary. Do some us prefer the back throated sounds of the Arab words because we think it sounds sexy and we can pretend to be some pakhandi Sufi poet?
  5. 5 points
    Well what was spoken before Pali? Sanskrit! Just because I have a different opinion from yours doesn’t mean that mine is stupid. I actually have a valid arguement while yours is vapid. Why is it that the Zafarnama is the only piece purely written in Farsi, because it was a letter addressed to Aurangzeb - a Mughal who only spoke the language of the court, Farsi. And I’m not saying go all RSS and remove Perso-Arabic words from Gurbani, I’m just saying remove it from our present day lexicon, because that influence isn’t something to be proud of. You mention Ferdowsi’s Shahnameh, yet you completely missed the point of it. It was written to preserve Farsi from Arabic influence, it was an act of upholding a community’s self-respect that was under attack from foreign invaders. And here you are saying that the removal of violent foreign influence on our language is a “stupid argument”. More than half of the commonly used words in Punjabi stem from Sanskrit, not Farsi. And Arabic has had far more influence in Punjabi than Farsi, so what you have stated is incorrect. We have very little Farsi influence on our language, which many are unaware of. So I really don’t see what you’re trying to get at. Where do you guys get your information from? Sanskrit, an Indo-Aryan language that is almost mutually intelligible from Avestan, used by the ancient Iranian-Aryans is now based on a Dravidian language, Tamil. On top of that you link a biased website, why not link a more neutral one. You gotta be kidding me man. Punjabi has more Dravidian influence than Sanskrit has and here you are saying that Sanskrit is a made up language by Pandits that aped Tamil. Funny. You’re the one that needs to chill and stop spreading inaccurate information.
  6. 5 points
    Again taking my comment out of context. Perhaps you should go read my original post in the DNA testing thread. I said that changing Gurbani would be a dire no, but the nature in which Perso-Arabic influences entered our language are not very pleasant, and therefore we have no need to further use them when we have our own lexicon. We are not like the Guru Sahibs, and can never be. They had a way of speaking that managed to touch all and thus the use of multiple languages was used, also known collectively as Sant Basha. This a topic on Punjabi, and Punjabi itself does not need to be spoken with Perso-Arabic influences, we have our own unique words. It is for the most part accepted as a fact that Sanskrit outdates Punjabi. Earliest written inscriptions of Sanskrit have been dated to 100 BCE, whereas Punjabi is believed to arisen in 700 AD, and poetic use by Nath poets is dated to 1000 AD, and the first written account is around 1200 AD when Bhagat Farid wrote his shloks in Punjabi. And where are you getting this information that Sanskrit was made up by Pandits? Sanskrit predates Hinduism and shares links with the Avesta language.
  7. 5 points
    Agreed with the fact that the users posts are verging on vulgarity, and a religious forum would be the last place to post these. I personally think if any individual has any questions about sexuality, they should be discussed on this forum, but making crude and borderline sexual remarks on a religious site is very disparaging behaviour. I don’t have anything against AjeetSinghPunjabi, and don’t want to offend him, but I ask that he please refrain from posting overtly vulgar and inappropriate remarks.
  8. 5 points
    Why shouldn’t Sikhs set aside Farsi? It serves us no purpose. As a community, we have no need for Farsi at all. Sure, as an individual, you can learn Farsi for your personal interest, but don’t go on with the community having to give some importance to Farsi. As for the writings of Bhai Nand Lal Ji, well he was born in Afghanistan, where they spoke and still speak a dialect of Farsi, and so he was taught that language from an early age and it was the language spoken around him, thus he began to write poetry in that language from an early age. As for the Zafarnama, well let’s not forget that Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote it to address Aurangzeb, a Mughal Emperor, who spoke Farsi, the official language of the Mughal Empire. So I don’t see it as a surprise that he would compose it in Farsi. And one doesn’t need to learn a whole new language such as Farsi to understand the Zafarnama, there are Punjabi translations of it. You know I don’t want to sound like a right-winger but we should actually attempt to remove Arabic/Persian words from our language, and replace them with Sanskrit. I say this because the nature in which the Perso-Arabic influence entered Punjabi is not a pleasant one. And I say Sanskrit because it was the language of our ancestors, it’s as dear to us as is Punjabi. In fact, Punjabi is the closest apabrahmsha to Ancient Sanskrit, even more so than Hindi. When the Arabs forced Islam and Arabic onto the Persians, they resisted and cleansed their language of all Arabic influence. They even replaced religious terminology such as Allah with Khudah, salah with namaz, ramadan wth ramzan, as to preserve their language and self-respect. We could learn a thing or two from them, of course I’m not saying that we should go back and change Gurbani, that’s a dire no, but we can remove infleunces from our lexicon today. No Punjabi, no matter what their caste, no matter how they look is ethnically Persian. We do not share a significant genetic overlap with Persians to consider ourselves ethnically similar. They cluster with Caucus/West Asians and we with Central/South Asians. And here is where inferiority shows, why not be proud and accept your own ethnicity. A Punjabi is a Punjabi and just that, why draw similarities to other ethnic groups when such similarities do not exist. And just as a side note, the Vedic Aryans (our ancestors) and the Iranic Aryans (Iranians) were not exactly friendly, they were in fact dire enemies that demonized each other. A whole war and exodus was waged, which is described in the Rig Ved.
  9. 5 points
    Khalsa college was founded by the manager of Sri Nankana Sahib management committee in the mid-1930s mainly as a college where the lower castes that Dr Ambedkar had promised would convert to Sikhism would be taught. We need to beware when accepting the anti-Akali dal trope that the Akalis or Jat leaders refused to admit Dr Ambedkar to Sikhi. This is a lie that has gained currency especially after 1984 as a way of showing that the Akali Dal has never had the best interests of the Sikhs. Dr Ambedkar did show an inclination to become a Sikh and it was because of this that Sardar Narain Singh the manager of the Sri Nankana Sahib estate management committee was chosen to go to Bombay and set up a college for the lower caste converts. If the Akalis really did not have lower caste Sikhs then why did they set up missionary centres to convert low caste Hindus to Sikhism in places like Hapur, Aligarh and even places in the south such as Mysore? The SGPC even set up a printing press in Bombay ostensibly for the use of Dr Ambedkar to print his newspaper and books. It goes to the credit of Dr Ambedkar that he returned all the money spent on the printing press when he did not convert to Sikhism. There might be other reasons for why he did not convert to Sikhism but to blame the SGPC or Akali Dal or 'Jats' is clearly false. With regard to Sikhism being hijacked by Jats that is not the case at all. Do Jats place Bhagat Dhanna Jat as a Guru equivalent to the Gurus as some others castes have done lately with Bhagats of their background? That would be hijacking a religion. Has any Jat Sikh ever expressed disappointment that none of the Gurus belonged to a Jat background? The fact is that Sikhs from a Jat background are majority of Sikhs and hence they control most of the institutions of the Panth which is natural given that we use democratic means to select our leaders. If the Jat Sikhs were say, 2% of the Sikh population and they had the influence and leadership positions they have now ( just as Brahmins have in Hindusm) then it would fair to say that they have hijacked Sikhism. In places like Delhi where the number of Jat Sikhs among the Sikh population are miniscule there are no Jat Sikhs in leadership positions.
  10. 4 points
    That could be a factor. But It could also be that they are just following their scriptures. As its pointed out many times that they will get a hareem of boys in heaven. Hence they see nothing wrong with engaging in these activities.
  11. 4 points
    It is well known around the world that Homosexuality is very high among the muslim world and population. Some estimates put it that almost 40 to 60% of muslim males are homosexual or bisexual. Meaning they are attracted to both woman and man. Even in their religious scriptures rewards in heaven include young boys for them to induldge in their beastaly and depraved fanstasies. Some even say that their prophet Muhammad was a gay as he had a secret affair with another man. "Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries.To please the homosexuals among his followers muhamed promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls" Paksitan regulalrly aswell as other muslim nations tops the list of countrys with most internet searches for gay pornography. Meaning there is great amount of proof that they have high number of homos in their country. What could be the cause of this. Is it due to genetic factors caused by rampant inbreeding?
  12. 4 points
    If they are in Gurbani, leave them where they are. However if in Gurbani there are other words that mean the same thing which we don't use, why not use them instead. I would like to know what the percentage of Gurbani has Persian /Arabic vocabulary. What would also be interesting is through the Gurbani from our first guru through to Dashmesh Pita, was there an increase in Arab/Persian words being used as there was increase in Islamicization of the society at that time? What I find strange about the likes of Sartaaj is that these types revere the Sufi ways more than the Punjabi muslims.
  13. 4 points
    I began to realize, albeit a bit too late, that there really wasn’t any point in arguing with Jagsaw any further. But I gave the poster some benefit of doubt. But thank you for reassuring me that I wasn’t wrong in my judgment.
  14. 4 points
    Chandasa is a precursor to Vedic Sanskrit and therefore are closely related. Prakrit stems from Vedic Sanskrit and the reason Buddha used Pali is because by then the Brahmins restricted the use of Sanskrit, Buddha, a Kshatriya could not use that language. Apabrahmsa is a type of Prakrit, I’ve been saying that for the past 3 posts, not sure why you’re phrasing it as if I was unaware, and just so you know Punjabi is an Apabrahmsha, a “corrupted” form of Prakrit, which in itself is a vernacular form of liturgical Vedic Sanskrit. Anyways to suit your own narrative, you’ve completely taken my comment out of context. I stated that we should remove Perso-Arabic influences from our language, Punjabi, as we have no relation to them, and I simply mentioned that if any language is related to Punjabi then it is Sanskrit. That was all I said, but it seems you have an agenda to fulfill and will harp on about it, so I guess no point of arguing. My profile avatar is a Nihang, who I thought looked mighty cool and thus decided to use, I have no agenda behind this unlike you. Also who is Nihang Niddar Singh? Can you please link a thread or forum where I’ve mentioned or sided with Nihang Niddar Singh? Or are you just making baseless accusations and forming needless assumptions to suit your narrative?
  15. 4 points
    Informal discussion or not, if I or anyone fails to understand what you’ve written in the first place, then there’s no point in writing at all as you won’t be able to get your arguments across. So whatever pride you take in not editing or making your argument understandable is in my opinion due to plain ignorance. How about instead of calling me an imbecile or fool, you back up your claims with relevant sources. Show me one relevant article that claims Sanskrit arose from Prakrit. You keep on harping about Sikhs in Punjab going through a process of “Sanskritization”; which I disagree with, no ones bringing back Sanskrit, Hindus love their Hindi now, yet I’ve never even lived in Punjab a single day of my life. I was born and raised in the West, so how did I go through “Sanskritization”. To deny that Punjabi comes from Sanskrit is to deny your heritage. Proto-Indo European language split into many languages of which we know there is Vedic Sanskrit and Old Persian. Vedic Sanskrit is nearly 5000 years old with it being spoken around 2000 BCE, where as Punjabi really emerged around 700 AD, so how exactly did Prakrit lead to Sanskrit? Can you please provide sources?
  16. 4 points
    Rightly said, without Brahmgian one cannot be a Brahmin. And restricting the flow of knowledge to other people is not reflective of the actions of a Brahmgiani. It is unfair, unjust and reflective of narrow-mindedness.
  17. 4 points
    It’s pure BS used to put down non-Brahmins.
  18. 4 points
    And you were told right, Pali is a Prakrit language, therefore an ancestor of Punjabi. Hindu Brahmins restricted Sanskrit, and that is how Prakrit languages derived in the first place. They were more natural, or as the Brahmins would say it, corrupted forms of Sanskrit. But the Vedic Indo-Aryans were the original speakers of Sanskrit, not the Hindus who come after the Vedic era, and those Indo-Aryans were our ancestors, therefore it’s our language too.
  19. 4 points
    Firstly, what you have written is factually incorrect. Sanskrit is a “refined” version of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language. And by the way it’s Prakrit, not “Prakhit.” Prakrit means “natural, vernacular” a language that is more informal than the liturgical Sanskrit, and Prakrit stems from Sanskrit, and not the other way around like you’ve mentioned. Apabrahmsa is a type of Prakrit, and Punjabi is a type of Apabrahmsa, ergo Punjabi is derived from Prakrit which itself is derived from Sanskrit, meaning that Sanskrit outdates Punjabi. Secondly, since when do Hindus have a monopoly on Sanskrit, how is it a Hindu language? Sanskrit is the language of the ancient Indo-Aryans who founded the Vedic religion, individuals that are our ancestors. Just because Hindus use Sanskrit in their religious texts doesn’t mean that they own the language.
  20. 4 points
    You are chatting about your gay preferences on the wrong site, this forum is for promoting Sikhi, teaching others and trying to lead by example. Without being graphic, but when your getting bent over by some 'haircut' dude, with your own kesh all over the place, im sure you are doing besti on all of us. I find your posts disgusting and that isnt because I am homphobic, even if you said the same about girls I think your messed up for chatting this gandh on a Sikhi forum.
  21. 4 points
    I'm not trying to be critical here, but isn't one of the reasons for growing out our hair and beard is so that we don't focus too much on our appearance in trying to keep up with worldly trends and dwelling on different styles. Let the beard grow as it will, don't care for it. I'm not saying don't take care of it, but who cares how it grows. By dwelling on the appearance of your beard, you've ultimately defeated the purpose of growing it out. Who cares what it looks like, you're focus should not be on it anyway? I may be wrong, but this is how I honestly feel. And tbh I use to dwell on this as well, and it only brings more worrying and anxiety, just forget about it and you will find peace with whatever your appearance looks like.
  22. 4 points
    Agreed 100%. It is the reason our community hasn't reached it maximum potential.
  23. 4 points
    I understood the hindus came back to him with an offer of low and backward caste quotas for jobs and education if he did not convert his followers to sikhi...
  24. 4 points
    What you tend to find with any group that like to boast about themselves. Is that the louder someone shouts the more insecure he is inside. Thats why foxes, dogs and hyensas bark alot and make a scene to try and scare or imtimidate. But A lion just does one growl and shows them who is the boss. The moral of the story is confidence is quiet insecurity is loud. This is not directed at all jatts but only those that boast and try and put others down.
  25. 3 points
    If I recall correctly, a few months ago I put up a post on this forum highlighting some of the discrepancies in the Suraj Prakash. A mod took it down because he felt it would offend a majority of the forum. I, however, feel that Sikh Sangat is not emulative of it's much maligned reputation i.e. a forum full of fanatics. In the latter spirit, then, I ask that can someone then explain the following passage from another traditional text- Chibber's Bansavalinamah: 'Kahan Singh Trehan from Goindwal and a descendent of Guruji. As a Sardar (chief) Sikh sat at the Bunga (Akal Bunga, Akal Takhat) himself. Sikhs came to the fair (organised by) local residents circumabulating (the Harimandar). A Sikh going in front of them met these Sikhs and embraced them. (4) These Sikhs also hugged him lovingly. They loved him very much. After hugging each other when they departed. Kahan Singh ji saw that particular sikh when all those Sikhs separated. (5) He (Kahan Singh) sent a man to bring that Sikh to him. Kahan Singh ji asked,”O Sikh! Which Sikh are you, what caste are you called by?” Sikh stood there hugely embarrassed. Then Singh ji again said,”What Sikh are you known as?” (6) Then he said, “Sir, I am a Mazhabi Sikh (a sikh originally from a low caste)”. Then Singh ji ordered those other Sikhs to be brought in as well immediately. Those local Sikhs all arrived, The ones who had embraced and hugged this other sikh lovingly. (7) (Singh ji) spoke thus, “Bhai Sikhs, do you know this sikh?” All those said.”Yes sir”. (Singh ji) spoke thus, “Which sikh is he, what is his caste?” They said, sir, landowner sikh and he is known as ‘Sandhu’ (8)(usually a jat surname but occasionally lower castes also may have this surname) Then he was asked in front of these Sikhs. “Bhai Sikh! What is your caste? He mentioned, ‘Mazhabi’ (sikh from low castes ) The local Sikhs were surprised on hearing this. These Sikhs said, “Sir, he has eaten food with us” (9) All of us Sikhs have served him food making him sit in our own kitchen. (persons of lower castes were not allowed to enter kitchen of higher caste persons) Food in (our) plate and water in the bowl was given to him to drink. This sikh (had) said ‘I am landowner sikh and am a local resident of Amritsar” All Sikhs have served him with food in their own homes one by one. (10) Singh ji asked (the ‘Mazhabi’ Sikh), “Why Bhai! Why did you do this?” He said,”Sir, I am sorry. I forgot (went astray)”. (Bhai Kahan Singh)Spake thus,”It is not you who forgot (went astry), it is these (Sikhs) who forgot (went astray). They only saw Guru’s insignia, didn’t see your body (person).” (11) Bhai Sikha! How could you forget? Why didn’t you check for your mother, father, brother, sister or relatives? Those in whose family you were born, grew up and had food together and socialise. How did you forget that (you are from that) family? (12) It is these Sikhs who got misled by just recognising Guru’s symbols. Why did you forget? You seem to be fairly knowledgable. You have done this intentionally. It is these Sikhs who got misled who saw only Guru’s symbols. (13) Following just the Guru’s symbols these Sikhs got misled. So that nobody may repeat this mistake (in the future). A barber was called and his hair were shaved. Making him sit on a donkey was taken around the town. (14) He was hanged by the side of Tunda Sar (a water pond ) And (Kahan Singh) asked this to the local resident Sikhs. “You arrange a Yag (a sacred purification Hindu worship), do Gurpurab, and prepare Parsad”. “You were misled by Guru’s symbols, so you are not stigmatised by this”. (15) “Do not talk about this in the township” “Keep the tenets of Sikhism in your mind”. “The Turks (muslim rulers) are eager to find faults lest some trouble arises” “There should not be any gossiping about this in the township at all”. (16) All the Sikhs said,”Sir, you did the right thing that you punished him”. None would repeat such a thing again. It created such a fear and respect for Sikhism. That even if someone dropped a thing somewhere, it would continue lying there, and no one would take it away. (17) (Fourteenth Chapter of “Bansavalinama Dasan Patshaheean Ka” “Genealogy of ten patshahis”) I don't claim any expertise on Sikh literature/historicity, but Chibber's narration does not fit in with an already established chronology regarding Baba Kahan Singh Ji. The Baba (let's get over his differences with Baba Banda Singh) is said to have catered to the lower castes and raised them to the levels of the higher castes. Initially I asked a Taksali Singh to explain this passage to me. The most he could say was that the text dealt with telling lies although it is evident that Baba Kahan Singh Ji, for Chibber, has the Singh executed for refusing to follow traditional Caste norms. Has the text been corrupted? Dr. Ganda Singh, utilizing the Suraj Prakash as a case study, had the following to say regarding the corruption of historic Sikh texts: 'Some writers allege that the reason for the rejection of Ram Rai was that he was born of a handmaid (Cunningham, p. 62). It would have been preposterous for him, as Narang says. to prefer this claim, if he had been born in that way. Really he had the same mother as Har Krishan. The story of Guru Har Rai having married seven wives, who were all sisters, is found only in one MS of Suraj Prakash and is written on unpaged leaves which are clearly an interpolation. Unfortunately this copy became the basis of the editions nowadays in vogue. Other copies mention only one marriage. Mahima Prakash, which is much older than this book, also mentions only one wife. See on this point the annotation of Bhai Vir Singh on Suraj Prakash.' -Dr. Ganda Singh, Baba Teja Singh; 'A Short History of the Sikhs,' vol. i, pg. 48. The mod in question informed me, last time, that the other thread would only be resurrected when he/she established the veracity of my post. Obviously by begging the question no veracity can be established much less manifested; I pray, then, that this thread be left open for some constructive debate on Sikh literature and/or it's authenticity on some points.
  26. 3 points
    The word Wuzu is Persian derative of Wudhu and Namaz is the Persian for Salah. The Persians had to find a way to purge the Arab words and find their own words. In Pakistan, Muslims are being encouraged to say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz because Khuda is Persian and not Arab.
  27. 3 points
    Bhai Jaita's 'Gur Katha,' Sainapati's 'Gur Sobha,' the works of Bhai Band Lal, 'Gurbilas' all refute Caste and its Vedic roots. Prior to Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji, Gyani Bhagwan Singh, Akali Giana Singh, Phula Singh, Baba Sahib Singh Bedi all administered Amrit to mazhbis from same bata. Tragic to see you implying that the tenth master was a Casteist when himself burnt Bhai Alam Shah's Janeu. The Nihangs of today, with a few exceptions, are all nangs. This saakhi is prior to 1700s. Chibber calls himself a child when this transpired. He chronologically contradicts himself on these points.
  28. 3 points
    एक मिट्टी की मूर्तियां बनाने वाला (कुम्हार) ईश्वर से कहता है....._ ⚘_"हे प्रभु तू भी एक कलाकार है और मैं भी एक कलाकार हूँ,_ ⚘_तूने मुझ जैसे असंख्य पुतले बनाकर इस धरती पर भेजे हैं,_ ⚘_और मैंने तेरे असंख्य पुतले बना कर इस घरती पर बेचे हैं।_ ⚘_पर ईश्वर उस समय बड़ी शर्म आती है, जब तेरे बनाये हुए पुतले आपस में लड़ते हैं_, ⚘_और मेरे बनाये हुए पुतलों के सामने लोग शीश झुकाते हैं"_.. 🙏🙏 *ध्यान से पढ़े कितना बड़ा सच है.*
  29. 3 points
    In Afghanistan, the Persian dialect is known as Dari. This is spoken predominantly by the Tajiks whilst Pathans speak Pashto. There isn't a lot of love between Afghans and Iranians either. The modern Iranian generally have a more olive type complexion than we do. Georgians and Armenians resemble the Iranian more than we do. We as Punjabis ga-ga when we see someone with green eyes and then claim Persian/Greek ancestory when if it really was the common we would not even bat an eye-lid. There is a subtext of what is going on. The reality is that as a subcontinental people for several thousand years we have been invaded, pillaged and plundered. It brings great shame. The only great thing that has come out of our homeland in the last 2000 years is Sikhi. However, having Hindu ancestory brings great shame because we see it as being weak and cowardly. Plus with everything going in the last 4 decades has pushed some of our people to completely disown this part and create this new ancestory. There is an expression, " Yesterday's low caste hindu who becomes today's muslim will tomorrow claim Persian /Arab ancestory " I think that some level we are doing the same.
  30. 3 points
    if jatts are so evil, why are non-jatts embracing cults with jatts as their gurus, eg Radha Soami and Sacha Sauda
  31. 3 points
    I said "some" seem to have a "degree " of inferiority complex. It's like English language. It's a Germanic language coming from Angles who were a tribe/people from Northern Germany like the Saxons which is why they call anglo speaking people Anglo -Saxon. If we use the Punjabi language analogy by "some" of our people then all the English people are German. However, if you have ever been to Germany (like Saxony states where Saxons came from) and have a look at the German compared to the average English person then you will notice a big difference. I would say the average German is far blonder, taller and even their features are slightly different. What would be likely is that the Anglo Saxon migration would have a bigger linguistic and cultural impact but a minimal genetic impact. Then we have had the Norman invasion, the word "Norman" comes from the word "Norsemen " who were Vikings that settled in Normandy in Northern France. Since they were French speakers, I am sure that a lot of French loan words were introduced into the English language but I'm sure the English are not French. However, the Brits (people of England,Scotland, Ireland and Wales) are related to Brittany in Northern France which is why Britain is called "Great Britain". Like I said before there is some cultural overlap but it is not simple as we like to think. Another example are the Azeris of Northern Iran. Azeris are the same stock as the Persians who after being run over by the Turkic speaking peoples changed over their language from Iranian/Persian related to a Turkic one. However, they are not genetically Mongols or Turks from Siberia. Same can be said in regards to modern Turkey to some extent.
  32. 3 points
    your way of writing suggests your intelligence level ! Write in a way in which other people treat you seriously
  33. 3 points
    Never said anything about Sanskrit. Though I reckon that what is now India and countries north west have had some connections. Much of the ancient world was more connected than we realise. My language is Punjabi. It is it's own language and it's not a dialect of Persian. We are our own people. Our accomplishments are our own.
  34. 3 points
    Well then why not learn Arabic while you're at it as well. I'll argue that Punjabi has more words borrowed from Arabic than Farsi, words like haq, rabb, dunya, sawaal, jawaab, kitaab, quam, insan, mushkil, mubarakan, maut, qanun, ijat, barkat, shukr, mujrim, qursi - these are just a few of the many that I recall. What I'm trying to get at it is that just because we have borrowed words from other languages, which is a very commonly seen phenomenon in linguistics and is referred to as loanwords, doesn't mean our language has roots in the language borrowed from. Punjabi and Punjabis have no roots in Farsi or Arabic, so I don't know why some of our own claim that. If anything Punjabi has roots in Sanskrit, but it is an apabrahmsha meaning a corrupted version of Sanskrit - like all present day Indo-Aryan languages. You're right in saying that when Sikhs had the chance to spread Punjabi/Gurmukhi, we didn't, and that was our biggest mistake. Honestly, we could have been like the Arabs, we could have spread our culture and language to the ends of South Asia, but unfortunately due to poor leaders we failed to do so. And I reiterate again, learning a new language is a great intellectual pursuit and everyone should take part, but don't suggest that it is imperative that Sikhs learn Farsi or Arabic because we have roots in those languages, that’s simply not true.
  35. 3 points
    I like your choice in men. You’ve got taste.
  36. 3 points
    So your basing all Hindu and Hindu- Sikh marriages about this this incident and your personal experience living in Mumbai which is the home of RSS/Hindvita (or whatever they are called ). Let me turn this around into a positive view against your negative view based on my experience. My uncle who is from Hindu background (Hindu Bharmin) married a Sikh women (arrange marriage) a few years later my Uncle become Amritdhari Sikh, His son and daughter are both Amritdhari Sikh,and proudly wear a dastar. There a few Hindu-Sikh marriages in my family which are going well One could say that if person visit a Gudwara and bows down to the Sri guru Granth Shaib they are Sikh no matter what there surname or religious background is. I dot not consider myself a non Sikh even thou by name I am Hindu Bharmin but my beliefs and culture is more inline with Sikhs. Even thou I am not fully religious I know more about Sikhism then the average Sikh. Do i think its right for me to marry a Sikhg Girl ? yes because of knowledge of Sikhi and my beliefs towards Sikhisim (like i said before i do not consider myself a non Sikh.) I would want my kids to follow and learn more about Sikhism and Punjabi culture. I would more likely have more trouble marrying a strict Hindu as they disagree with my religious views etc, Now they are Sikhs who are just Sikhs by Name. The smoke weed, get intoxicated know nothing about Sikhi. they are like "yo blood I am Sikh yo look at my blinked out Khanda neckless Jatt for for life you get me fam " these kind of Sikhs are more problem and danger to Sikhi and could ruin sikh families. However where I do agree your point against marrying a Hindu if the Hindu family has no knowledge of Sikhi, never been to Gudwara, unwilling to bow down to Sri Guru Granth Shaib and would want to convert there wife/Husband to Hinduism. Name means nothing its whats in the heart that counts . Just look at Bhai Mati Das for an example.
  37. 2 points
    Chibber and Chaupa Singh had already lost the plot prior.
  38. 2 points
    Well to your first point, I think some of our people consider Perso-Arabic to be refined and sophisticated and they think it sounds sexy. This feeds into the inferiority complex. To the second point, I think potentially the history of the compilation of our gurbani would provide patterns into what was happening in Punjab. When Guru Nanak Dev Ji was on this earth, Babur was making inroads. So when we look at the bani and see the vocabulary used,we could see how much Islamic influence was around at the time. To the third point, Wahhabism is prevailing. My theory is that there is a proxy war going on between Iran and Saudi Arabia. There is a proxy cultural war happening also. When Arabs conquered the Persians, the Persians were converted to Islam. What the Persians did was to attempt to subvert Islam with their Persian imprint. So to stick 2 fingers to the Arabs they incorporated their own Persian language and culture into Islamic culture. When you see Islamic influence in places such as the subcontinent, SE Asia, Central Asia, Turkey etc what you are seeing is Persian influence. Now the Gulf Arabs have money they are trying to reverse all the Persian influence. That is why they are getting people to say Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz for example.
  39. 2 points
    The word 'Bali' meaning sacrifice would be the equivalent.
  40. 2 points
    yeah yeah yeah ....we remember the thousands that are unfairly forgotten by justice and we are atvadi khalistani yadda yadda yadda 'why don't you forget it' and they still burn effigies of Ravan because of sita thousands of years later - idiots Indian establishment has no right to make political headlines within our King's court ANYWHERE ...
  41. 2 points
  42. 2 points
    Guest Singh Jee, you need not any more ardaas or arambh again. Just follow what the Bani says. So, what does the Bani say? It clearly says: ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਸਨੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਉਰਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੇਸਰੋ ਲੇ ਛਿਟਕਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaero Aasano Naam Thaero Ourasaa Naam Thaeraa Kaesaro Lae Shhittakaarae ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਭੁਲਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਚੰਦਨੋ ਘਸਿ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਉ ਚਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ Naam Thaeraa Anbhulaa Naam Thaero Chandhano Ghas Japae Naam Lae Thujhehi Ko Chaarae ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਦੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਬਾਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤੇਲੁ ਲੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਸਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaeraa Dheevaa Naam Thaero Baathee Naam Thaero Thael Lae Maahi Pasaarae ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ ਭਇਓ ਉਜਿਆਰੋ ਭਵਨ ਸਗਲਾਰੇ ॥੨॥ Naam Thaerae Kee Joth Lagaaee Bhaeiou Oujiaaro Bhavan Sagalaarae ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤਾਗਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਫੂਲ ਮਾਲਾ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਗਲ ਜੂਠਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaero Thaagaa Naam Fool Maalaa Bhaar Athaareh Sagal Joothaarae || ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਚਵਰ ਢੋਲਾਰੇ ॥੩॥ Thaero Keeaa Thujhehi Kiaa Arapo Naam Thaeraa Thuhee Chavar Dtolaarae ਦਸ ਅਠਾ ਅਠਸਠੇ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਇਹੈ ਵਰਤਣਿ ਹੈ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ॥ Dhas Athaa Athasathae Chaarae Khaanee Eihai Varathan Hai Sagal Sansaarae ਕਹੈ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥੪॥੩॥ Kehai Ravidhaas Naam Thaero Aarathee Sath Naam Hai Har Bhog Thuhaarae Guest Jee, with the verses above , you can see by yourself, that Bhagat Ravi Das is telling us, that, when one is engaged in His devotion with focused attention, in His Nam, that is all one needs to do, for this His devotion, is more than enough, than any outer ingredients. wahiguru unlike any other gods, godesses, devis, devtays, prophets, avatars, needs nothing from us, except our full atention with love and devotion at His Lotus Feet. Such is the undescribable infinite wadeeayee of our beloved Wahiguru Akal Purukh. Sat Sree Akal.
  43. 2 points
  44. 2 points
  45. 2 points
    ek mittee kee moortiyaan banaane vaala (kumhaar) eeshvar se kahata hai....._ ⚘_"he prabhu too bhee ek kalaakaar hai aur main bhee ek kalaakaar hoon,_ ⚘_toone mujh jaise asankhy putale banaakar is dharatee par bheje hain,_ ⚘_aur mainne tere asankhy putale bana kar is gharatee par beche hain._ ⚘_par eeshvar us samay badee sharm aatee hai, jab tere banaaye hue putale aapas mein ladate hain_, ⚘_aur mere banaaye hue putalon ke saamane log sheesh jhukaate hain"_.. 🙏🙏 *dhyaan se padhe kitana bada sach hai.*
  46. 2 points
    The low quota came at a time when the Hindu hegemony was threatened by conversion; secondly it offered Ambedkar something which the minorities weren't able to offer him- a position on the constitutional assembly of India.
  47. 2 points
    1. he was within his reasonable expectations as he had made a previous uneventful visit besides knowing his citizenship offered some protections theoretically. We have the right to visit our itihaasic Gurdwarey , to see extended family this isn't zakhirya Khan's time despite what RSS believes they are. Then sikhs came out of the jungles and showed that they would live on their own terms and die the same . Death is a certainty , the only choice is :die fighting on your feet or cowering on your knees. As for your bogus statements about western activists not going into the lion's mouth to support humanity suffering oppression you are so wrong : Andy Hall sitting in a thai jail , with serious cases being thrown at him because he exposed the human rights abuses of the thai pineapple industry, Cynthia KeppleyMahmood who was gangraped by the forces and her life threatened for daring to bring the truths of the sikhs to the world , our own Jaswant SIngh khalra was just a bank manager but he found the truth and brought it to the world then went back to his home from Canada even though he knew he may not survive - DO NOT dismiss people who are willing to pay the price in full. Black lists for Diaspora sikhs as they are the ones the GOI can't get hold of easily. 2) Tan and Preet can only work within the law , you can see what happens when you work for another govt - bye bye Priti Patel GOI chamcchi. You sound like these people who think they are entitled to cuss these folks down > https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4935980/sikh-mp-is-abused-by-web-trolls-who-think-he-should-only-campaign-on-sikh-issues/ 3) Citizen's arrests are for use ONLY in the situation where a crime is actually actively being carried out , to hold the person until police get there . NOT for historic stuff, or crimes external to the country . It would get you put in prison for kidnap if you did try it in the wrong situation . Here have a read: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/aug/09/guide-to-citizens-arrest you can awaken the sleeping by much more effective means than a publicity stunt that could backfire amazingly and spoil young sikh men's lives before they did anything 4. nazanin is not a spy that was the charge the Iranian authorities she was a charity worker visiting her bheke with her baby daughter. Who got grabbed to be used as a pawn in a tug of war over defaulted tank sales : https://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/help-get-nazanin-home-iran-prisoner-british-mother?utm_source=Paid+Facebook&utm_medium=Digital&utm_campaign=MAEN409&utm_content=NazaninKamal-Action https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4915082/nazanin-zaghari-ratcliffe-iran-release-demands/
  48. 2 points
    " SABR " I’ve always wondered what SABR (Patience ) is I was never given a proper definition so my concept of it was somewhat distorted; All I understood was that you wait until it’s over. But now, if I were to put it into words, this is what I’ve gathered so far: SÂBR is suppressing that angry voice in your head, the one that wants to yell at people for being inconsiderate to your struggle. SÂBR is swallowing this voice, overcoming it and learning to channel it towards a heartfelt du'a instead. SÂBR is forgiving someone when they dismiss your feelings. SÂBR is meeting those who deserted you, with a smile on your lips, even though your tears are one step away from exposing you. SÂBR is staying silent because you’ve already stated your point too many times before. SÂBR is conforming to someone’s demand because of their right over you. SÂBR is fulfilling the rights of others even when they transgress against yours. SÂBR is crying about your heartache in front of God and no one else. SÂBR is believing wholeheartedly that God has beautiful things in store for you. SÂBR is crawling forward even when you want to stop. SÂBR is an active state of being, it is not a theory to simply be discussed and forgotten.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  49. 2 points
    What is interesting about Persian is that after the Arab conquests in the 7th century, Persians were not able to speak their own mother tongue and were threatened to have their tongues cut out if they did. You are correct about the amount of arab loanwords in Punjabi. . I think some people think it came from Persian but do not realise that at one time Persian contained one third of it's vocabulary from Arabic but I think that has been reversed some what. Language is more than loanwords, it is grammar and sentence structure too. The reality is the "persian " in the Punjabi language is the result of conquest. There seems to be a degree of inferiority complex by some of our people.
  50. 2 points
    Never denied that wasn't an empire. However, I think that there is a degree of overlap between cultures. I think some of us Sikhs like to disclaim so much of our Hindu heritage/ancestry that now we are claiming to be Persians Vedic hindu culture and some ancient Persian culture (like Zorastrianism ) have a lot in common. It is more likely many thousands of years ago, we were all the same stock of people but we have diverged since. History is a lot more murkier and complex than we like to admit.