Leaderboard

Yeup. Pakistanis especially refer to Sikh rule as "Sikha Shahi" and view it as a very bad rule, its even a derogatory word there. They inflame stories of Sikhs desecrating mosques and whatnot, which I'm not even sure are truthful. because Maharaja Ranjit Singh ordered a mosque to be built as well. They also really like to praise the Afghan Durranis who taxed, murdered Punjabi Muslims and obviously desecrated Harmandir Sahib.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! If you are going to attend the Surrey Nagar Kirtan and wish to volunteer with Basics of Sikhi, please message me ASAP!

I personally think Guru Sahib made it clear to us with the Panj Pyaare being from all corners of India what his intent for Sikhi was. He didn't want it to be restricted among Punjabi, and its unfortunate it has been so. And the culprits for this are us Punjabi. I personally think that we need to spread awareness among other communities. A significant non-Punjabi Sikh population are Sindhi people. They're very devoted to the Sikh Panth, however are also verging on Santana Dharmic ideals. A little more awareness among them would help them correct their ways. We also need to reach out to other communities, especially those that are related to the Panj Pyaare and also those not related as well. Most individuals from the Panth will say that this is proselytization, but I disagree. If you won't spread awareness, how will one know about it? The issue is who will do this? Our own Panthic organizations are weak and uneducated, and can be easily bought over. We need to renew our Panthic foundation, but I don't know how that is possible?

Is it any wonder that Hari Singh Nalwa advised Maharaj Ranjit Singh to pass the Khalsa Raj to the panj pyareh. It makes perfect sense.

Have you noticed a trend in non-Sikh media to discredit the Khalsa?

Courtesy of Nassim Nicholas Taleb:

Lying British and American scum. The media stooges making the case for these strikes need hanging. The plan was always Iraq > Afghanistan > Libya > Syria > Iran > Russia. Saudis are comfortably in bed with the various western governments and agencies pushing their respective agendas. I expect another flimsy pretext for war to emerge in the next few years, with Iran being next, perhaps in another 10 or so years. Meanwhile, the incessant disinformation and brainwashing will continue.

err singh sabha movement was against the hindu Mahants appointed by Angrez ...try again

On Vasakhi 1699 after the first two Khalsay had stood up ... Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the sixth Khalsa) gave three more calls. Mohkam Chand, a Gujarati calico printer/tailor from DwarkaNagar, Himmat Rai, a water-bearer from Jagannath Puri in Orissa, and Sahib Shah, a barber from Bidar (south India), stood up one after another and advanced to offer their heads. ... a minority of the wider Punjabi community is Sikh ... most Punjabi's are Muslims and there are more Hindi speaking "Punjabi's" in the historic parts of pre-1966 Punjab. So we as Sikhs need to fight back against this nonsense portraying Sikhs as the equivalent of Punjabi's as they seek to limit the truth to a small part of Punjab only. Even the Muslim Jatts that killed 300,000 Sikhs in 1947 and the Hindu Jatts like Sajjan Kumar laugh at the ridiculousness of some Sikhs associating an ancestry with their name as a mark of pride given the fact that even the vast majority of Jatts are Muslim and Hindu ... So again we as Sikhs need to fight against our Panth being associated with any particular ancestry backgrounds (because that's exactly what our enemies want) So let's be clear anybody in 2012 who proclaims their ancestry background from the rooftops is not a Sikh and Punjabiyat has no relavance to Sikhi. Anybody into Bhangra please tell your favourite artists that you will not buy their records if they continue to promote alcohol + caste on behalf of a Muslim record label like Moviebox. Sikhi is falsely portrayed by the Panth's enemies and for the record let me state that i think a billion or so Hindu's are generally good people (the 800 million or so Hindu's who live in poverty I consider as Sikh in my eyes anyway ... before someone misinterprets my stab at the Panth's enemies)

What would have been world history had Khalsa not been created by the Tenth Master? Time to reflect and thank Guru Gobind Singh for this world shaking revolutionary step. Please give your views on this.

I've been thinking about this too. Things are definitely heating up, hope it doesn't reach an extreme.

You have no idea how much Ranjit “Singh” damaged the Sikh Psyche. He was boarderline ritualistic, and even very superstitious. He got played by the Hindus and even changed the colour of the Khalsa Nishan Sahib from Guru Hargobind’s Basanti to Orange.

What a coincident just as there is a discussion going on about Maharani Jind Kaur. Dawn news published an article about her role in the fall of khalsa army.Anyone who is interested can read it here. https://www.dawn.com/news/1401384/how-a-queen-plotted-the-fall-of-khalsa-army-by-starting-the-first-anglo-sikh-war

1) If she was as accused ,she would not have been told she would not get money from the treasury to give to Sikhs on our tuhaars unless she gave double to brahmins as same time 2) she would not have been imprisoned as she would have been under hindu control 3) who would gain from besmirching her honour ? the dogras , the English as no one would side with her to get sikh raj back 4) you underestimating the depravity of the Brahmin paltus of Angrez , they have always sided with whoever is in charge until they are strong enough through wheedling to overturn the powers that be , the mughals knew this so kept them down also their Kitab teaches them to do that . The angrez have always used the Hindus greed to gain ground ,that's why they established themselves so quickly and fairly bloodlessly in the East of India and really despise them for lack of spine and obseqiousness. To serve their masters they put many many rumours about . 5) in that time all it took was one whisper or question and people would assume the worst , people used to kill themselves because other merely spoke ill of their females honour . so I doubt that was true . 6) when was this supposed tryst ? when she was assisting her son by being regent after her husband's death ? when she was under house arrest? when she was transported to Nepal ?

I dont know whether this is true or not, but in reality this is an easy accusation to use in order to try and destroy someones character. Look a bit closer to our time and see some of the stories that were said about kharkoo singhs.

I think if you want to solicit "the truth" about various topics, you should slow down your pace of posting topics to allow discussion on all sides in-depth.

He should go to Brampton, it's like killing two birds with one stone, he gets to see a Canadian city as well as Punjab.

????

And I think a reason only Sikh people do it is because of the boastful nature of Punjabi culture, which our Muslim and Hindu counterparts have shed. Sikhi itself banishes any sort of egotistical behavior. You're exactly right, we have these false narratives spread among the community of conquering Afghanistan, and defeating the Mughal Empire single handedly when none of this is true. And it seems like we're trying to make up for something, when the fact is that what our ancestors accomplished was more than enough given their population size. I fully agree that we need to stop fighting other people's wars and get into fields that can lead to power, and finance is key to that.

I disagree that an elitist attitude exists in all states of India. Punjabi and Punjabi culture endorse an extremely boastful nature which has seeped into Sikh attitudes as well. I've seen Punjabi look down on anyone just because of their appearance or caste, we're as worse as white people during colonialism. I'll hear our fellow Punjabi boasting about conquering Alexander, having the largest empire in India, and single handedly defeating the Mughals because of this boastful, elitist attitude. It's this kind of attitude that drives people away Sikhi, as most equate Sikhi to Punjabi, which is not true at all. You're definitely right about Punjabi, especially Sikhs, needing to chase after academics.

Definitely go for USA. Not much in Canada to be honest.

I'm not saying we should give up the Punjabi language, what I'm saying is that we need to give up Punjabi cultural dominance, and buckle down on the Sikh identity more. We don't need Punjabiyat to dominate our way of thinking and behavior, because frankly, its not a very good way of thinking. The SGPC not converting Ambedkar's Dalits was the greatest mistake in modern Sikh history. The elitist attitude of the SGPC led to Ambedkar concluding that Sikhi was only egalitarian on paper, and not in practice. Sikhi lost out on a lot of potential followers with that decision, and I'll argue that elitist attitude stems from Punjabi culture. We should not be obsessed with Punjabiyat, and instead be "obsessed" with Sikhi and its way of life. The only way I see this happening is if Sikhi spreads out to other ethnicities, however our own, such as in the case of Ambedkar, become an obstruction to that spread.

I had the exact same thought yesterday. I agree, the positive aspects of our culture such as our language, our folklore, and other cultural and historical markers should be treasured for posterity, but I can't help but think we've lost our way. In many ways I think Punjabiyat has inadvertently dumbed down the impact and image of Sikhi. I look at the contemporary figureheads of the Panth, and I think, "No. You can fool these simpletons, but you aren't making a mug out of me. You're not what Dasme Paatshah had in mind for us." But, as I said, there are some wonderful aspects to our culture besides the weird self-destructive and egoistic pandering parts of it. I'll try to briefly summarise the problem as I see it, and I genuinely believe a considerable aspect of the overall problem lies in third party perception as well as our own Punjabi interpretations gradually bleeding into that which should be immutable. In Sikhi we have a philosophy that, if gifted to a community of people who came from medieval Italy, for argument's sake, would be considered a treasure for humanity. The problem as addressed by this topic arises because of the somewhat erroneous assumption (I wouldn't quite call it discriminatory) that the humble origins of the faith and the seemingly... unsophisticated following who took up the faith are considered to be an indication of the substance and value of the philosophy itself. We haven't done ourselves any favours in this regard, as this is where I believe Punjabiyat is wielded as a stick to beat Sikhi, because we've sort of floundered and coasted along since the arguable golden age of our faith, and eventually for the admittedly essential act of survival and proliferation we've become the very thing that we weren't kind of supposed to, i.e. an organised religion and everything it entails. We've switched off. We just follow without any serious khoj. Coupled with the human desire to create factions and subgroups for various purposes, which could be argued is even more of a problem in desi cultures, there's a sense we've forgotten and neglected the spirit of that essential founding spark which allowed our faith to emerge. Being surrounded by the Indianess of India on all sides means we've regressed socially, intellectually, and spiritually. There's so much going on, and can't be pinned on a few reasons.

Another reason to start a simran section is all the benefits of simran ਸਿਮਰਉ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਉ ॥ Meditate, meditate, meditate in remembrance of Him, and find peace. ਕਲਿ ਕਲੇਸ ਤਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਮਿਟਾਵਉ ॥ Worry and anguish shall be dispelled from your body. It is easy to read books and debate because it only makes the mind stronger and gives it more energy to keep on thinking. To still the mind the above quote from gurbani says to do simran.

Well I can address your first point. The kara predates Sikhi, Hindus have worn Karas for aesthetic and combat reasons. I believe the Rajputs wore karas and used them as knuckle dusters, and many other Indian ethnicities have their own variation of it. But its best to remember that the reason we wear a kara is different from other groups and that it reminds us of our religious duty, and when need be, can be used in defence.

Homework is indeed vital for the whole panth.

i hear if you spot one, you have a lucky chance of winning the lottery the next day, according to sanatani research of course

Great perspective! I didn't think of it that way to be honest. I overlooked that Waheguru expects us to act genuinely, rather than out of self-interest. Makes sense to me now. Thanks.

But can't creation exist without a material world? Isn't being in Sach Khand living, existing?

And the fact that mythologizing narratives was an accepted practice then should be enough to dissuade one from thinking that the Panj Piares were some incarnations.

yep but even so saying Singh sabha movement was purely about countering Ranjit SIngh's bad decisions is a bit of a stretch . The main problems were : suspending sarbat khalsa method of getting panthic concensus giving command of khalsa army to non-sikhs who were purely motivated by personal greed giving Dogras so many high positions including control of treasury , true to type they showed their true colours as soon as Ranjit singh was on the wane , and started planning with the angrez how to capture the sikh kingdom .

I thought her name was Maharani Jindan. Had panth normalised Kaur name for women during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule?

They are printed by the SGPC. And transported from country to country either by charter plane or by specialized bus created by the SGPC. The detestable publisher Chattar Singh Jivan Singh also publishes copies. I would advise any believing Sikh never to obtain a sarup from them.

Well, your choice, bro. Although I do think you will admit that waiting more time will not elicit less responses, right? One of the reasons I say so is the admin changed up the homepage a few months ago to where it doesn't show the recent topics on top right of the homepage. It shows the top contributors (which is useless), and then the most recent posts (not topics). Posts move fast, the most recent ones obscure the older ones. Topics are more long-lived, but still, the more active topics there are, the more chances they will be obscured. And we all know that huge numbers of people never go into the forums, they just check out what's on the homepage. Anyway, I'd like to ask you to ask the admin to move the "top contributors" back to the bottom left wide column, and put the "recent topics" back in the top right narrow column.

No, brother, I did not. You can't just throw up a video without a few sentences of its import, and expect people to view the whole thing. Anyways, thanks for now doing so. Finally, I would advise this babaji to contact the Buddha Dal with hard info in order to make changes in the Gutka at the source instead of trying to tell random people on the Internet which then means they will possibly tangle with those who read the "incomplete" Brahm Kavach.

How would you know, bro? I would imagine that the Budha Dal, of all groups, would know what belongs in Brahm Kavach and what doesn't. Anyway, what's the line, and what's your source for the original?

A lot of these young men are looking for respect, especially from older men. They are also looking for food, and to belong to something greater than themselves they can be proud of. I've had good luck interacting with gangs in my area, have you ever tried street parchar with them? I'm ready for confused bootha to come out in force, but I'd warmly and vigorously greet them with a Sat Sri Akal. Or Akaaaaaali. When they ask what the heck you just said, say that's how we greet fellow warriors or how we greet immortal warriors. That gives them proper respect to start and might be all the hook you need to get them very interested in Sikhi. You'd want to be coming from a loving couragous place, street kids smell fear like sharks smell blood. Even if Sikhi isn't for them, the better treated they are by Sikhs and respected the less likely they are to target the Sangat. When they are out intimidating people, in part they are interviewing for targets, looking for the fear response that signals the go ahead, they are also looking for love, respect, and acceptance whether they realize it or not.

Citing music as a cause for societal degeneration started well before rap. Not saying rap isn't in this category, but heavy metal promoting racism, satanism, black magic, sex, drugs, violence, etc. isn't exactly wholesome, and has been effecting the uk much longer.

They did at one point.

Ignore the first 30 second intro. It's not great but the video itself is.

Who the british?

How do you know they are from the 1700s? Have you had them carbon-dated? Why could they not easily be from any other time period, even the 20th century?

Well as weapons, the fact they've had corrosion removed increases their quality. As antiques that decreases it, but that being said I have no idea what the seller is expecting. They're beautiful shastars though.

the sgpc changed their website, and the hukamnama link is broken for for now, sorry.

Not sure I want to go to sikhnet for hukam any more. I found the sgpc site, but does anyone know of a site that offers it in a similar format to this?

Thank you. I hadn't thought of listening to it. I bookmarked those sites. For reading purposes I liked the format of the japji video because it has the gurmukhi, the english phonetic of the gurmukhi, and the english translation. The use of all three makes it like a rosetta stone. I was using that format to learn the gurmukhi, which I can still do with the japji video. I didn't realize how nice it would sound. I can use the sgpc hukamnama and those sites for hukam, and stick to the japji video for the language practice. Thank you.