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??? Anger comes alone, But it blocks our mind and spoils the relations. Patience too comes alone, But it releases the Tension and creates Good Relations. ??? GOD ........ Has a purpose for your PAIN, A reason for your STRUGGLES, And a gift for your FAITHFULNESS, Don't ever give up... ??????

Most of these peace prizes are given for purely political reasons.Obama got his because the Swedish liberal elites wanted to stick two fingers up at the outgoing Bush and the Republicans. That Malala girl got one because the liberal elites want to highlight girls' education in Pak/Afg as well as raise the number of Muslim Nobel prize winners.

Reply wasn't pointed at you but generally speaking about this forums aim/mission etc..

13 years old and believe me 10 years from today, you will be thanking your parents for stopping you for making a biggest mistake of your life. They gave you this life and they raised you. They know you better than you know yourself. You probably know yourself for past 8 years but your parents know you for 13 years. Stay with them and ride on this trouble time instead of seeking support from outsiders.

What type of mum does this guy have? How can she allow a girl to move in and live with her son? Your parents know the best for you and love you and are concerned about your future. This guy and his mum are out to ruin you. If you get pregnant or something else, then your future will be tainted. At any cost you owe your parents an apology for getting misled by the world outside. You need to live with your parents for a further good 7 or 8 years before thinking of moving out. The world out there is not all rosy as is in your imagination. Parents are sometimes shocked and can say things they dont actually mean. They still are the best for you whatever you think.

yes my daughter is Isher kaur but she is named so because she is Isher di ansh , Akal purakh's Kaur nothing more or less . Mahakaal is that most 'superior' being who brings end to the creation , but that is not true of Shiva as AKal Purakh is the true Mahakaal as he can put an end to Shiva , Shivpuri, Indrapuri, Brahmlok etc all of maya etc that is the nishaani Kaal of 'Mahakaal' that is who a sikh serves and remembers

Singh ji, Khalsa are supposed to carry full length Kirpan 3 or 4 foot not 6 inch ones ! What Jathas & organisations preach is a watered down version of Rehat Maryada so it's not just corporates that bend over backwards ?

I for one welcome your insight. You aren't here spouting off biased p.o.v's.

All is good as long as it helps your body to heal whether it's traditional medicine, aryuvedic herbs or meditation. I trust in natural stuff but chemical pumped medical should not be avoided either. my dad always says - milk with haldi in it will fix everything.

What I find intriguing is the rapid shift in Da'wah strategy being employed by Muslims. In my experience whereas before they were attempting to exonerate Islam from the accusations being hurled at it, they are now attempting to contend that all faiths have a similar strain of elitism (for a better want want of expression) as is found in Islam. I acquired the following from a social media group where a Muslim attempted to argue that akin to Kafir and Muslim, Sikhs have the Gurmukh-Manmukh disparity. 'Given the "grooming" phenomena which is prevalent in the Pakistani Community (though all communities have their fair share of devils) we are not surprised that in order to exonerate their faith, from the negative attention it continually receives, some Muslims feel justified in disseminating fallacious propaganda regarding other faiths. Below are some new absurdities which a Da'wah group has come up with in order to contend that equal to Islam's "Conformist-Infidel" dichotomy is Sikhi's "Gurmukh-Manmukh" principle. Is this verifiable in light of the "evidence" which they have provided? Or is there more to the latter than meets the eye? Let us scrutinize the matter closely. The central thesis of this absurd, and somewhat humorous, contention is that "Gurmukh" (Guru-oriented) evolved into a more narrow term after the first Nanak rendering non-Sikhs "Manmukhs" Ipso facto. Point 1: Cherry-Picking Shabads to substantiate their fallacies. Bhai Gurdas's Vaar 5, Pauri 7 (of 21) is quoted to the effect: "Without the Guru's Shabad and sadh-sangat even good persons find no liberation." On a Prima facie basis, Bhai Gurdas seems to be implying that a non-Sikh who is righteous is doomed to spiritual damnation because they are not a Sikh. The proselytizer desperately needs to do this in order to exonerate his/her faith and instead direct the stigma towards Sikhi. Let us, however, scrutinize the full vaar and comprehend it in it's proper context: "ਜਤ ਸਤ ਸੰਜਮ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਾਨ ਪੁੰਨ ਬਹੁਤੇਰੇ। Hypocrisy by and large enters into the praxis of continence, burnt offerings, feasts, penances and gifts. ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਖੰਡ ਬਹੁ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਅਗਲੇਰੇ। Incantations and spells ultimately turn out to be hypocritical plays. ਵੀਰਾਰਾਧਣ ਜੋਗਣੀ ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਮਸਾਣ ਵਿਡਾਣ ਘਨੇਰੇ। The worship of the fifty-two heroes, of the eight yoginis of cemeteries and of places of cremation leads to whopping dissimulation. ਪੂਰਕ ਕੁੰਭਕ ਰੇਚਕਾ ਨਿਵਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਘੇਰੇ। People are obsessed with the pranayam exercises of the inhalation, suspension of breath, the exhalation, the niolr feat and straightening of kundalini the serpent power. ਸਿਧਾਸਣ ਪਰਚੇ ਘਣੇ ਹਠ ਨਿਗ੍ਰਹ ਕਉਤਕ ਲਖ ਹੇਰੇ। Many employ themselves in sitting in the siddhasanas and thus we have seen them seeking myriad miracles. ਪਾਰਸ ਮਣੀ ਰਸਾਇਣਾ ਕਰਾਮਾਤ ਕਾਲਖ ਆਨ੍ਹੇਰੇ। The belief in the philospher's stone, the jewel in the serpent's head and the miracle of life immortalising elixir are nothing but the darkness of ignorance. ਪੂਜਾ ਵਰਤ ਉਪਾਰਣੇ ਵਰ ਸਰਾਪ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਲਵੇਰੇ। People are engaged in the worship of idols of gods and goddesses, in fasting, uttering and giving blessings and curses. ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਵਿਣੁ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਭਲੇ ਭਲੇਰੇ। But without the holy congregation of the saints and the recitation of the Guru- sabad even the very good person cannot find acceptance. ਕੂੜ ਇਕ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਉ ਫੇਰੇ ॥੭॥ The superstitions bind themselves with a hundred knots of falsehood." -(Vaaran Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 5, Pauri 7/21). In light of the above it emerges that the Bhai is not downplaying the concept of righteous non-Sikhs. Rather, he is satirizing society's perception of a "good person." Performing ostentatious acts of worship and charity are futile if one, clandestinely, engages in vice over and over again. If one is impure from within ('Jeoh Maile Baroh Nirmal-' Anand Sahib), outward purity is rendered hollow in the Divine Court. The Bhai's derision of such "good people" is made evident at the end when he declares (all thanks to the Da'wah crew for providing such an acute translation): "Without the Guru's Shabad and sadh-sangat even good persons find no liberation..." Is this in any way different from what Guru Nanak declares in his Bani? "Make compassion thy cotton, contentment thy thread, modesty thy knot and truth the twist. This is the sacred thread of the soul; if one be in your possession then put it around me. It breaketh not, filth soils it not, fire burns it not, it is not misplaced." -(Asa Ki Vaar, SGGS, Ang. 471). By attempting to play on limited knowledge, the proselytizer desires to twist the Guru's word and substitute it with their own falsehoods. Point 2: Distortion of Gurbani and Sikh history. In an attempt to "evidence" that the first Nanak's teachings were different from his successors' the proselytizer asserts that as time progressed, "Gurmukh" became a more narrower term for each successive generation of Sikhs. Let us divide this section into sub-sections for ease of comprehension. A.) It is asserted that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never emphasized upon the need for obtaining a Guru, vis-a-vis liberation, and later Gurus construed this principle in order to establish the equivalent of "Kafir-non Kafir." Unfortunately for the proselytizer: "Without the Guru, how can anyone swim across to obtain peace?" -(Guru Nanak Dev Ji, SGGS, Ang. 20). B.) It is asserted that Guru Amar Dass Ji shut off liberation to non-Sikhs by declaring: "Without the true Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is Guru-less has a bad reputation." (SGGS, Ang. 435). Who is this true Guru? The aforementioned Guru, himself, informs us: "Seek and find such a true Guru, who shall lead you to the true Lord." -(SGGS, Ang. 30). Furthermore: "Oh Nanak, the one light has dual forms; through the Shabad union is obtained." -(Ibid). The true Guru is Shabad, the ageless spiritual wisdom. One is left wondering as to how these proselytizers function. It should be clear by even a cursory glance at Sikh history that the third Guru played a pivotal role in collating the words of non-Sikhs and preparing the ground for their inclusion in the Sikh canon. If he truly regarded them as "manmukhs," why would he desire to have their words collated in a "Gurmukh," going by the proselytizer's logic, scripture? The theological implication here is clear, conversion is not the sole aim of Sikh liberation. Non-Sikhs can reside in their faiths and if possible locate spiritually enlightened souls who can lead them to the "true Lord." The true Guru is one who manifests the spiritual truths of Bani, which pre-date Sikhi itself, in their life and we acknowledge that non-Sikhs too can do this. The inclusion of Bhagat Bani and Bhatt Bani should be evidence enough of this. C.) Guru Ram Dass Ji continued the tradition of constraining "Gurmukh." The Shabad which apparently substantiates this claim is the following: "Oh Nanak, in the shops of the city of the human body, the Gurmukhs buy the merchandise of the Lord's name." -(SGGS, Ang. 95). How this implies that only Sikhs can be Gurmukhs eludes any sane individual. But maybe the proselytizers possess a different mental build? The concept of "true Guru" and "Sadh-Sangat' are also found in the words of the 15 Bhagats who pre-date Sikhi. We provide an example from the works of Kabir (quoted in the SGGS): "Without the Sadh-Sangat, the company of the Holy, without vibrating and meditating on the Lord God, one does not reside in the truth..." and, "Sayeth Kabir, to cross over the terrifying world ocean, I have taken to the shelter of the true Guru..." -(SGGS, Ang. 336). Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not even born when Kabir wrote these verses so how can Kabir, then, be referring to the "exclusivity" which the proselytizer claims is inherent in Sikhi? The ninth Guru informs us: "Renounce thy hubris and attachment to Maya; focus your consciousness on the Lord's meditation. Sayeth Nanak, this be the path to liberation. Become Gurmukh and attain it." -(SGGS, Ang. 219). There is nothing exclusive to Sikhi in this verse. All spiritual traditions emphasize upon renouncing hubris and false attachment. In light of the latter, then, a question emerges. If "Gurmukh" evolved into a more constrictive term with passage of time, then why did the ninth Nanak possess such an open definition of the term? We advice all Da'wah crews, targeting Sikhs, to try harder next time and maybe they will get somewhere. Fortunately for them, though, as Sikhs we can concur with them on one point: "Truth being made clear from falsehood." By their falsehoods, the truth of Sikhi emerges ever stronger and ever shining.'

I thought this was an open forum. Aren't non sikhs welcome here ?

There's a MaccyDs near Darbar Sahib? Well that's news to me and I now know the next stop after Darbar Sahib for me

Not sure how much experience you have in corporate world but they do bend all the way down to make profits. Not going into deep but search 'veggie only McDonald' the only kind near darbar sahib. Your whole argument collapse on just one example. Dear brother, having some degree of inferiority complex and accepts the slavery mentality "oh I came to this country, I should do this or that" should not be the conclusion. If firaanges can come to our house in 1830's and messed up our country, culture and religion and then you say don't do anything that upsets the majority when we go to their land. ??

No he isn't. That's just your idiocy talking, Now you're calling him a liar again saying he'll lie to appease people. Really how disgusting are you. He flat out says Vishnu proclaimed he was God and that was completely bang out of order. You're argument is based around a word, a word that's used so commonly in the world its unreal. The word is used for literally any form of honorific. You've yet to post a Katha where he says "oh yeah Vishnu is amazing and not indulging in Maya" because reality check. That's a load of tosh. You're free to go and pray to him, but you'll be stuck in the same Vicious cycle of life and death. No you don't. They serve him, they came to his Darbar because they're weak and powerless without him, because he's far above them, He is the King and they are the paupers just like all of us. He holds Gurbani at the highest, stop dragging Mahapurkhs names into things without even having any proof, your proof is they visited his Darbar, so what? So did countless other people, all of whom needed Sant Ji to help them, So thank you for further proving the point the Devta are lost in Maya. Find me where he flat out says that Vishnu should be worshipped. You wont because he never said it, He said Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Supreme.

Good food works but we should follow our culture of receiving ??

No, my point is that Khalistan probably won't get Disneyland, Six Flags etc to change their policies. Perhaps in court houses etc. But, to me Khalistan is a place where Sikhs can freely practice Sikhi, not for us to go on a roller coaster with a Kirpan on. If embassies or courthouses of a foreign nation don't allow Kirpans, don't go or leave your Kirpan when visiting those buildings.

Are you really that desperate to have sikhs bow to Devtas. I never said Vishnu was useless, I said he was lost in Maya. Which he is. He does his duties but Gurbani has called him lost in Maya. End of story. Go and argue with Guru Sahib on that. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji confirms this, go and call him a liar. No Bhagwan doesn't mean Sargun form of Waheguru. What the actual hell lol. Bhagwan Vishnu was simply his title, which Sant Ji used. Sant Ji is more than happy to call out the failings of the Trinity. He calls Shiva as being Shiv-Ji, also a mark of honorifics and a title. Yet here he openly criticises Shiva as well. He already calls that tongue like yours cursed who claim that Shiva is in any ways above Guru Sahib and that he even asked him for blessings. Even more he further says that Devtas like Shiva (yes that includes Vishnu) are of no importance to Sikhs and subordinate to true Gursikhs. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Dasam_Granth_Viakhya/Sant.Jarnail.Singh--Dasam.Granth.Viakhya--Ab.Main.Apni.Katha.Bakhano.(part1).mp3 He confirms what I just said there. But you'll ignore that I bet. You're actually so cursed you're claiming that Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji are liars and you're right? No Sant Isher Singh Ji wasn't named after Shiva. That's just your stupidity talking. Isher is referring to God in this context not Shiva. Yes they did visit Sant Ji's darbar, because they were subordinate to him. They were thirsting for the darshan of a true Mahapurkh as being in their presence is where they accumulate their powers. lol. So much for being Brahmgyanis, they need true Gursikhs to do anything. Them coming to his Darbar further proves my point at how much lower they are to Brahmgyanis who are Akaal themselves. Please present Evidence from Gurbani that the Trinity aren't lost in Maya. Thank you. I've presented evidence upon evidence of various Mahapurkhs all saying the Trinity are within Maya, this is once again this dude's lame way to promote some Hindu propaganda. In this entire thread he has yet to provide any reliable source and thus far all he's done is grasped for straws by saying "because a certain word was used it means Sikhs should bow to the Devtas" IN this thread alone he's insulted Guru Pita Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the intelligence of Various Mahapurkhs. He considers himself infallible. If you want to go and fall at their feet and beg them for stuff then do so. No one here will stop you. But don't drag Sikhi into it. If you have proper hardcore evidence then I'm all ears, otherwise you're grasping for straws and it couldn't be more obvious you know next to nothing about Sikhi since you're using the names of God (that were handed to the Devtas by others) to say Sikhs are followers/adherents of them. The same stale argument used by the Hindu=Sikh brigade. If the words of Mahapurkhs and Scholars aren't something you can swallow and you think they're wrong then there's no hope for you.

Penji I think you quoted my post by mistake ?

Magnesium oil may help. Have a good read about it.

Just an update. I had the x ray. The doctor said it was not broken. But I am being cautious as sometimes the x ray does not pick up on some fractures. If theres a lesson I have learned from this. Is to be careful. Injuries can happen when you least accept them. Only minor falls and trips can result in devastating life long injuries. I took my knee for granted my entire life and when it got injured and could not walk without excruciating pain. I realized what a knee is. I am now not doing extreme sports. We need to take care of our bodies.

Social hypocrisy A young lady went to a street vendor and asked him: "How much are you selling the eggs for?" The old seller replied to her, "Rs.5/- for one egg, Madam." She said to him, "I will take 6 eggs for Rs.25/- or I will leave." The old seller replied, "Come take them at the price you want. May God bless us, and maybe this is a good beginning because I have not yet sold to anyone." She took it and walked away feeling she has won. She got into her fancy car and went to pick her friend, and invited her to a restaurant. She and her friend sat down and ordered what they like. They ate a little and left a lot of what they ordered. Then she went to pay the bill. The bill was Rs.1,200/-. She gave him Rs. 1,300/- and said to the owner of the restaurant: "Keep the change." This story may seem normal to the owner of the restaurant. But it is very painful for the eggs' seller. The bottom line is: Why do we always show that we have the power, when we buy from the needy and the poor? And we are generous with those who do not need our generosity ? Every time a poor child comes to me to sell something simple, I remember a tweet from the son of a rich man who said, "After every prayer my father used to buy simple goods for very expensive prices, even though he did not need them. Sometimes he used to pay more for them. I used to get concerned by this act and I told him about it. Then my father told me: 'It is a charity wrapped with dignity, my son.'" Compare these two stories of social hypocrisy. The first one is disappointing and the second one is inspiring. May God enlighten our vision

Yes, I was aware of this. But how can we as a community raise this idea up to the people, the few elites as you say, that can make this happen? Surely, there's something we can do to get Ravi Singh more exposure.

That was classic!

First of all were just assuming they were hindus how do you know they wern't just moneh sikhs? Secondly suppose they were all hindus when did I say that hindus visiting a gurudwara had contempt for sikhi? I specifically said hindus and hindu leaders who had malicious intent for sikhi. Now this is what you said "Majority of sangat in gurudwara were Hindus with their head covered n bowed in reverence, most of an age incapable of comprehending the hatred let alone the reason behind it." THATS why I said they should go pick up some books maybe that would help them understand the hatred(as u put it) a bit better NOT simply because they were hindus at a gurudwara. In the future please dont twist my words its not gonna help us see eye to eye any better. Now here is big issue im having with all your posts which is HUGE false equivalency during the period from 84-95 tens of thousands of sikhs were killed by the indian government,hindu mobs and the punjab police(under directions from hindus) how many hindus were killed during that period? 300 or 400 most likely even less(Note I'm not trying to downplay the deaths of innocent hindus any loss of innocent life is tragic just pointing out that the number of hindu lives lost was miniscule compared to the number of sikh lives lost) now this is were you'll bring out numbers from books written by hindus and information from hindu websites and hindu blogs with shamelessly over inflated numbers of hindu deaths at which point I'll cease responding to you because I'm not interested in playing he said she said with you I'm interested in FACTS. On one hand you have a majority quom of 966 million attempting genocide and persecuting a minority of 20million and yet that minority quom is the one spreading hatred simply when they point out the injustices they've suffered? Maybe it was the fact that Shaheeds Bhai Satwant Singh and Beant Singh were being honored in that Gurudwara is what got you upset maybe thats what you call spreading hatred. Well this may be a tough pill for you to swallow but until the earth is swallowed by the sun we will always honor our shaheeds and we will never forget there sacrifice. Isnt the fact that Indira Gandhi is remembered as hero by hindus all over India spreading hatred? Isnt the fact that the evil kutti has a international airport named after her spreading hatred? Isnt the fact the BJP supported RSS is spreading propaganda and trying to destroy the very fabric of sikhi in our own motherland of Punjab spreading hatred? Yet you have the audacity to come to a sikh forum and tell us sikhs are the ones with malicious intent and that were spreading hatred in our gurudwaras that is why I called you a snake. Watch the whole video. Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh Ji was tortured and killed by the Punjab Police shortly after he made that speech. If you truly dont have venom in your heart you should also check out the works of Ram Naryan Kumar(hes a fellow hindu as I said I'm only against hindus who have malicious intent towards sikhs and sikhi). I also noticed that in your post you conveniently avoided answering my question about if you though KP Gill was a hero or not hmmm I wonder why.... Yet after all this you come to us and tell us were the ones spreading hatred honestly it makes me wanna puke. Maybe u think that Shaheed Bhai Jaswant Singh ji was spreading hatred in the above video also. Now you will probably start spouting the usual bs of "times are now different what uses is bringing this all up now" and the answer to that is simple these aren't some events which happened 100 years ago were the perpetrators and victims are all dead THE MURDERERS OF OUR PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THERE AND INSTEAD OF BRING THEM TO JUSTICE HINDUS WORSHIP THEM AS HEROS. I'm sorry but until you get the honesty to acknowledge that hindus have fu@ked sikhs over and are continuing to f us over to this day we will never see eye to eye.As for my kids hating your kids for there different beliefs no that will never happen though they might hate them because instead of helping us in our time of need there parents stood by and let our people be butchered not only that but because they swallowed government propaganda hook line and sinker. Siddartha you sound like a good person without a agenda(I may be completely wrong here but lets assume I'm not) but from the sound of it you want us to forget what happened in the recent past and turn a blind eye to whats happening to this day and just start singing kumbaya with you but if we do that the snakes within your community will ensure that sikhi goes the same way buddhism did in India

@Siddhartha I would like to say this, our religion, our Granth, our Gurudwaras do not incite or preach hatred against any other group of people or religion. So your Sikh friend(s) that are getting playful with Hindu jokes are not representative of the religion. However, their actions and sentiments towards Hindus, which though condemnable, have occurred for several reasons if I may say so. In fact, taking a recent look at Sikh-Hindu relations, one would conclude that their actions/sentiments are natural responses to what's taking place. See, Sikh-Hindu differences have always been present from the start (think Gangu), but have never been as extreme as they have been in the past 33 years. I don't think I need to state the obvious, but 1984 was a deciding factor for the Sikh-Hindu relationship, one that has gotten bitter and sour. And to be honest, it was not the people, but the work of governments that divided religious groups for the vote bank, but the damage has already been done. And Sikh jokes, Sikhs not getting constitution rights, the Sikh identity being ridiculed and misconstrued, the rise of the Hindutva supporting BJP, the rise of RSS and its clashes with Sikhs are not making any things better, and are instead dividing the relationship our two communities share even further. So, what do you expect from your Sikh friends? To go along happily seeing the ridicule their community faces, or to act out, albeit foolishly, against the community doing the ridicule. Come on now, be realistic. If the Hindus want to have a cordial relationship with Sikhs, why don't they then amend their mistakes. Perhaps the Indian youth (including the majority of Hindus) can join up together to ban Sikh jokes that are subversively cancerous to my community's image, maligning us as idiots. But no, instead I see even the most liberal, educated Hindu youth take pleasure in these jokes, and they expect my Indian Sikh cousins to laugh along. Oh come on, how low can you people get! Take a look at Vir Sanghvi, an Oxford-educated gentleman, who believes that Sikh jokes are part of the "good-natured Indian tradition", well what a "great" tradition the Indian people have, ridiculing a minority to whom many Indian Hindus owe their very existence to. Perhaps you could get us our identity in the Indian constitution, as we are Sikhs, an independent group of people with independent beliefs not affiliated to Hinduism. But no, even the most "informed" Indian I've met is likely to say that Sikhs are nothing more than the military hand of Hinduism, and have been created to protect it. Well, thank you for completely tossing out the foundations of our religion, and resorting us to nothing but a military faction of Hindus. Perhaps, you can collectively get us justice for 1984 by punishing the perpetrators walking in broad day light. But no, not only do the governments protect them, many Hindutva supporting people of India justify the deaths of Sikhs in 1984, and believe that we deserved it. What's funny is that with a significant percentage of Indian Hindus holding the opinions of above, how do you not expect us to not only break away from you, but also to despise you. We are Sikhs, but we are also humans with flaws, and so we have every right to hate what's been done to us, and to hate who did it, and of course these lessons will be passed down to our children, so they that don't end up facing what we did in the past. I hope you will realize that the hate you experienced isn't senseless, it's the result of years of differences, deceits and a genocide that have led to this feeling. So perhaps take a broader look at why your Sikh friends are treating you the way they are. And I honestly believe that these relations that have been damaged by governments, can be mended by people, but in the current situation, the Indian Hindu majority doesn't seem to want that, and instead are looking towards a far more dividing goal: a Hindu India.

We need to think why our guru sahib ji invented 35 akhar instead of adopting any other readily available language? Our guru sahib inventing a language naturally means that we sikhs need to learn how to read, write and speak Punjabi regardless of where we resides. It must be one of the qualification of calling ourself Sikh. We also should (after learning Punjabi) to try to learn other languages as well like Urdu etc.

Dear Harsharan Your wisdom is heart-warming and your benevolence is contagious. Even though I can't be as eloquent as you, I concur with your comment in it's entirety. This is exactly why I am here. I'm not here to seek apology for what happened at the gurudwara. How can someone apologise for a thought process? And as you have commented how could the wisdom of bani go waste. I could already be a Sikh in the essence of the gurujis teachings. Harsharanji I don't have such a morose outlook of humanity that I would believe that all my Sikh brothers are the same. And you so very well epitomise that belief. As you've advised me to attempt to wash away the discord within the hearts of hindus I come across, this is my attempt to reach across to my Sikh brothers because I felt this hatred. And I decided that I have to do my part to alleviate this suffering. I look forward to more words of wisdom from you. Regards Siddharth

Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi... I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect. I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.

Hello BhForce My friend, I'll attempt to assign words to my thoughts in the best possible way that I know of though might not be able to answer to all your points/questions in one sitting. Beautiful shlok that rings so true with what I stand for hence rendering every other point of yours in condradiction with the message in that shlok. You have taken undue advantage by apologising for someone else's actions thus putting me on a backfoot. Such is the nature of this gesture. I thank you for it. You will have no argument from my side in relation to the exploitation and sheer inhumanity perpetrated by priests and Brahmin class amongst Hindus. I am a Brahmin by birth and absolutely abhor the past n present conduct/rituals that would dehumanise. I won't go into my faith n beliefs. That's for some other day. The social structure of that society was lateral with equality which was exploited by people with power and so called knowledge and was turned into a caste system. That was an act of men in the name of a religion. I'm sure you would be aware that some Sikhs consider themselves superior than other Sikhs and won't marry their daugthers into some family names that they consider inferior. I'm sure you would be aware of terminology widely used in Punjab in denigrating tones for field workers from UP/Bihar/Bengal/Pahadi and their treatment. I am aware that ancient caste system still prevails in sections of Hindu society. My point is that that dehumanising that you mentioned still happens. Within your n my community. Do you support it? No you don't. My comment of Sikhs making Hindu jokes have been given too much significance where I felt the hurt behind the need for such jokes. But since you made point pertaining to that comment that no wonder such denigrating jokes are being made, so I'll assume that you include Sikhs amongst the group that were dehumanised alongwith Shudras. But I dont see Hindu "lower caste/shudras/BC's making Hindu jokes despite of the atrocities. So its definitely only Sikhs making Hindu jokes. Now comes the topic of content of these jokes. I have cracked many a Santa Banta jokes in life and never have I come across a content of the joke that potrays anything but foolishness/dumbness/stupidity. Meaning that if Santa/Banta of that joke were replaced with Ram/Shyam or Nasir/Beg, Irish/Yank/Jap/Pommy the joke would still potray the same meaning with no hint of religious/communal undertone. I understand that some Sikhs play along by their own choice or they feel they don't have a choice but bear/laugh or some retaliate and express their displeasure. That's a personal choice. Where I choose to laugh on a pandit joke, brahmin joke, indian joke, currymuncher joke, jew joke, irish/scottish joke, jap/chinese/go.k joke etc., I am acutely aware of the setting the joke is made in, the content of the joke, the intention of the joke and most importantly the sensitivity of the audience. And I vehemently check anyone cracking any hurtful joke. Then you have drawn a parallel with the white/black situation and the related jokes. About KKK and no issues in denigrating them. And in another point a joke about "sardarji barah vaj gaye?". I completely understand your logic behind these points. I completely understand that some Sikhs might feel offended by Santa/Banta jokes just like some Hindus with pandit jokes. And I implicitly understand that some Sikh might feel the right to making such jokes due to the oppression they felt and/or feel. I completely understand that what you might think as funny I might consider offensive and vice versa. But are the likes of Colbert/trump denigrating white people or KKK? Do you think everyone paints white people and KKK with the same brush? Are white people represented by KKK? Are the black priests/preachers deriding/condemning white people or KKK? Have you ever come across a Sardarji joke that is about Sikhism, teachings, any gurujis, Sikh women, Sikh sexual prowess, Sikh valour/cowardice etc.? I have never. Never would I ever be a part of such demeaning act. Again, I understand your logic of denigrating while/after being oppressed. But Sir, this is today. We don't need this hatred now. Are Sikhs still feeling oppressed in USA, Uk, Canada n in other countries? Why do we have to teach our kids that Hindus did this and Hindus did that, even while living overseas? One of the brothers in this forum has asked me to spare him my BS etc. Why such hate? Where is the need of such hate? To support a cause? Does the faith need the crutches of insults? Sir, you are forever vigilant as to what your child might read/watch/hear on the internet, in a mall, on the tv. But we apply no filter in preaching hatred. I have heard arguments that our children need to know the history. And my answer to that is with the same analogy of what you allow your child to be exposed to on the media. A child will learn history, will learn of your viewpoint/stand and will learn of the hurt it has caused to his/her community. But when he learns that, how he learns that dictate whether he develops hate along with that lesson. Unless the motive of that lesson is to teach hate too. Then I'm fighting a lost battle. A brother here said that I might show my true colours after a bit of prodding. Isn't it sad that he feels the need to prod? I have searched for a forum to discuss how I'm feeling about our children and their future. And he could only see a snake behind kind words. I don't consider Guru Nanak Dev Ji as hindu. I don't consider Sikhs as Hindus. I don't consider Buddhist as Hindus. And even if I do or anyone does, does that falter your faith? And then because you deride other sikhs you can do the same for Hindus? And if I take a stand, as many (most?) Hindu, that Sikhs are Hindus, then does it give me a right to deride Sikhs? No one in their right minds would call a wrong right. No one human would call 84 riots anything but a heartbreaking and abhorrent tragedy. Sir, I filter violent/sexual/age-inappropriate content for my kids, same as you do/will do or would have done. But when I was sitting in the gurudwara and on both sides of Guru Granth Sahibji the images/videos of Sikhs been beaten and burning bodies were being played as a backdrop to an 8 year old's speech that Hindus did it, I couldn't filter it for my 6 year old. My children would learn about this tragedy themselves. And children when reading about 84 riots will also come across numerous articles about Hindus being segregated and killed during terrorism, whether you and I believe it to be true or not. But what I'll ensure is that they have the mental acuity to understand the nature of a man before they are exposed to such sufferings . And then when they'll approach me to ask whether it's true or not, I'll answer that it hurt deep. Hurt millions. Inflicted millions. Wounded milions. Such is what a man is capable of. Not Hindu or a Sikh but a man. And that the lesson is to not hurt and when you know someone is hurt, you be that extra compassionate. Same as you. Koi bhi anjane mein hui galti ke liye maafi maangta hun.

This dude isn't the brightest star in the cosmos is he?

This is from a court room in Florida. Two classmates who passed out from the same middle school (Nautilus Middle School) met in the court room after many years.. one was the judge and the other an accused.... Before pronouncing the judgement, the lady judge enquired...whether he was the same person who studied with her. This made the accused very emotional and he started to cry... While expressing her pain in seeing him in this condition... the judge also did not forget to introduce him as a good student and a footballer during his school days... to the audience present there.. She also wished him good luck and said she wanted to see him lead a good life ahead in future.. The greatness of the lady judge lies in the fact that she didn't hesitate to recognize an old classmate or introduce him to everyone there... In a world where money and power sometimes make a person forget even his near relatives.. this is a perfect example of humility and wisdom.. to be learnt by all of us and the upcoming generations.

8 rules for a successful trip called Life. 1)Don't educate your children to be rich. Educate them to be Happy. So when they grow up they will know the value of things not the price. 2)"Eat your food as your medicines. Otherwise you will have to eat medicines as your food." 3)The One who loves you will never leave you because even if there are 100 reasons to give up he/she will find one reason to hold on. 4)There is a lot of difference between human being and being human. A Few understand it. 5)You are loved when you are born. You will be loved when you die. In between You have to manage...! 6)If u want to Walk Fast, Walk Alone..! But if u want to Walk Far, Walk Together..!! 7)Six Best Doctors in the World- 1.Sunlight 2.Rest 3.Exercise 4.Diet 5.Self Confidence 6.Friends Maintain them in all stages of Life and enjoy healthy life 8)If you see the moon .....You see the beauty of God If you see the Sun ..... You see the power of God And .... If you see the Mirror You see the best Creation of GOD So Believe in YOURSELF. We all are tourists & God is our travel agent who has already fixed all our Routes, Reservations & Destinations.

Yep this is what I have been told by the doctor. Will need to rest for a while and use crutches to take the load off the leg. I am tempted to start walking as normal and doing everday activities as was feeling a little better. But thought its best to rest and recouperate to allow it to fully heal. Will also take a multi vitiman and change to a more healthy diet. The only vitimans I have in the cabinet at the moment are Zink, Vitiman A, B vitimans. But probably need a calcium one.

sikhi is NOT democratic because true democracy operates by only the truly invested being the ones to make the decisions and to plan the future worldly direction of the panth i.e. sarbat Khalsa was democratic, SGPC is not NO Guru ji did not teach love the enemy - He Taught love the truth, naam and to fight against oppression and injustice in ALL forms , spouting such nonsense lets the injust prosper and weakens the panth There is no difference between Guru Gobind SIngh ji and Guru Nanak Dev ji both gave Kirpa via Nadar to those deserving of it . Same way what Guru Pita ji wrote to teach us in Dasam Granth ji and Sarbloh Granth ji is vital knowledge for invested sikhs i

Either your information vis-a-vis the spearing of the Dasam Granth is wrong or either you are trying to state one thing but it's coming across as another due to incoherent writing. The culprit was Kartar Singh Jhabbar, who was staunchly opposed the Nihungs, a top brass of the S.G.P.C/ Akali commune. Gatka is only a drill, Shastar-Vidya (as taught by the Hazoori Singhs) is the real deal and not Nidar's little dance moves.

Of course, inconsistent information is still inconsistent no matter who it comes from. There should be consistency in definitions of words and phrases, you can't just change them whenever you want, you could change anything then. You could change the rules Dharma or anything else. Intellectually definitions should be complete and consistent. This is why we praise Akal, because he is consistent from beginning to end and unchanging, but only his nirankar form, his sargun form is always changing: whether Shiva or Vishnu or Guru Nanak then suddenly guru Angad in an instant of time. And earlier someone said the student bows to the guru not the guru to the student. But when guru Angad dev became guru, guru nanak bowed to him as his student or in simple Punjabi as his sikh. Even guru gobind Singh became "ape gur chayle", the student/sikh and guru/teacher at the same time. But I digress. There should be consistency with words and their definitions, you should not be changing them at any whim.

It seems Sikhism and sikhs have become less about nirankar and his various forms and experiences and more about simply devta bashing. It is the Kal yug after all there is bound to be confusion with inexperienced minds who believe they know and have experienced everything as though they were Brahma gyanis themselves. Be a sikh first and learn with an unbiased and open mind rather than reverting to nindya by nature and automatically, without having even tried to understand what you are denouncing. It's simply repetition of secondary and tertiary interpretations of certain parchariks, not accurate to what Bani says.

That's why I said you are lost because you are just soooo busy devta bashing. you do not understand and you do not personally know Shiva or other Brahma gyanis and their opinions, yet you already have such predetermined and strong opinions about them, without understanding their struggles or level of spirituality and their Akali Shakti, relation to Akal, and role in our universe.

Guru Gobind Singh uses Shivas name interchangeably with akal, in "De Shiva bar mohe" because what guru gobind Singh did as rishi Dust Daman in Hemkunt sahib, Shiva had done long ago as well at Mt. Kailash in the Himalayas near Mansarovar. So the guru pays his respect toward Shiva as Akal's form because Shiva is a more senior Brahma gyani, Vishnu Brahma and Shiva are our universes oldest Brahma gyanis that is why they are able to carry out Akals hukum of creation, destruction, and sustenance of the universe. When you do nindya of these Devs you are not getting anyone's belssings at all. Additionally, guru gobind Singh was not the only one to become Akali at hemkunt sahib, Pandu, the 5 Pandav brothers with Draupadi, and Laksman Sri ram chander's brother aka Shesh Naga also did bhagti at that same spot guru gobind Singh did as well, in the form of rishi Dust Daman.

Maya can also means Laxmi, ie treasure riches and luxury. She is a manifestation of Durga, like Kali and Parvati. And Saraswati as well. Laxmi is married to Akal Purakh's Vishnu sustainer Form, and is often depicted massaging Vishnu's legs and feet serving him as wife and Shakti in the form of riches, power, and luxury. Even today Maya ue laxmi always prefers to stay at the feet of Vishnu, as you can see the many dollars, pounds, or rupees that always seem to gather spontaneously wherever Guru Granth Sahib is prakash. Money is also a sargun form of Laxmi, of power and Shakti. There things that rich people can do which poor people can nit. That is Laxmi's Shakti control in the universe as per Akal Purakh. Saraswati and Parvati are also different forms of Shakti and represent other things, they are also the physical projection and manifestation of Akal Purakh in physical form, going from nirgun (formless) to sargun (physical manifestation of Shakti).

The Dev became ego ridden, so asuras were created to be stronger than them on purpose, in order to tarnish their ego and pride. Akal doesn't like ego, Nam and ego can't coexist, so to keep the devas close to his Nam Akal had no choice but to create powerful asuras which would conquer the Dev lok.

Yeah the Dev had to correct their mistakes. That is why the asuras were created, they dethroned Indra from Amaravati in heaven and ruled the three main lokas. That's when Durga ma had to rescue Indra. She had the help of Brahma gyani rishis Samaund and Dust Daman. Durga foretold that in Kal yug these rishis and herself will again fight the asuras in our dimension. The moghals which tried to convert and conquer Hindustan were avtar of those same rakshsas that were fought as described in Chandi Di Vaar. Rishi Samaund and Rishi Dust Daman then also had to take avtar as Tyag Mal later Guru Teg Bahadur and Gobind Rai aka Guru Gobind Singh fulfilling their duty and destiny in this dimension as well.

These beings are Akal puraks sargun physical form. They are his physical arms, otherwise Akal has no actual form or color. That is why they are also stated as guru, because only through the physical guru can you find the formless guru. That is the function of guru nanak Shiva et al. Gur isar gur Gorakh Brahma gur Parvati mai, Akal has taken the form of a guru in many ways, that is stretching from sat yug all the way to Kal yug. There have been so many gurus. In Kal yug alone just in the span of 500 years there have 10 enlightened beings, imagine the many throughout the eons and millions of years of all four yugs. This is why it's said that sikhs today have cut Sikhism short, to begin only at 1469, the correction is that the concept of Sikhism had started with Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh as the tin chayle parvaan, the correct answer is that avtar of guru nanak dev occurred in 1469 where Sikhism was again reintroduced to Hind. After being lost in the darkness and ignorance of Kal yug.

Of course everyone is temporary, all sargun forms of Akal ie guru nanak, Vishnu, Shiva, et al will all disappear once Akal decides to destroy everything and be by his own self. Akal is Nirankar he has no foem, when everything is destroyed there will only be formlessness. In the beginning Akal was by himself with no one else, therefore not just Shiva brhma and Vishnu are subject to the end of this game that Akal has started, guru nanak himself will also be included when the formless one decides to end everything. The guru uses the example of Brahma Shiva and Vishnu because they were the first 3 beings created by Akal, they are his first 3 sikhs in the universe. Eka Mai jugat vai tin chele parvaan (Brahma Vishnu Mahesh/Shiva) ik sansari(brhma Akal creates through brhma) ik bhandari (the sustainer vushnu) ik lai diban (Shiva the desteoyer) these are Akal purakhs tin chayle parvaan his accepted 3 students or first 3 sikhs of the universe. The guru uses them as an example because even they will not remain when Akal decides to end this game, therefore nothing at all will remain as it was before creation ensues. And when the formless one feels like it again he will recreate the tin chayle and recreate sustain and accordingly destroy the universe. "Kai bar pasrayo pasar sada ik ik onkar"If even the creating force of Akal the sustaining force and even the destroying force will not survive what will happen to the rest of the universe? That is why they are used as prime examples because they are primal and the oldest creations of Akal.

Today's sikhs are useless. They aren't even real sikhs. They like to divide dharam in to sikh and then everyone else. And then they degrade that everyone else as inferior while at the same time saying Good is in them as well and our Guru is like isar Brahma or Vishnu for us. Which is contradictory and hypocritical. Today's sikhs can't see the same guru in the form of Brahma or Shiva or Parvatti, the guru has to be a bearded man for them. Preferably with a white beard holding out a hand. They don't realize that the guru is the same as this aforementioned. I suggest you read what Jap ji sahib is saying and it is saying exactly as the original poster read it, everything else you read in this thread is a secondary or tertiary interpretation and can skew the original message. Just read the primary source and what it says. Don't let others' egotistical interpretations of Sikhism get in the way. The guru is beyond their ego, the same guru you bow down to in Gurdwara had also taken the form of Shiva, gorakh and Parvati mai. Sikhs today are confining guru grant sahib to his physical form as a book, when he has had taken these forms as well in the past. It's the same guru aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach. Guru granth sahib did not start existing 500 years ago, he was always around since the beginning but in different forms, like Shiva, like Parvati, like Gorakh Nath. Sikhs today say Sikhism is so deep it is limitless, guru grant sahib is so deep and limitless, yet they limit them at the same time and can't see the fact that that same guru did and could have had numerous forms and that because he is limitless he could take the form of Shiva et al as well. They say he is limitless but tend to suppress him in whatever form they think is correct according to their own knowledge. This is what is meant by mahadev kou kahat sada siv nirankar ka cheenat nai bhiv they think the one is only the form of Shiva, when he was also the form of Vishnu and Brahma the rishis and Parvati as well , when he also has no form at all to. Same with sikhs today, they think nirankar is only in the form of guru granth sahib when that is not spiritually accurate since nirnkar is aad Sach jugaad Sach hai bhi Sach nanak hosi bhi Sach, he was around in various forms before Guru Nanak even took avtar before even yet inventing the oora shabd,, that's where Shiva Brahma and Vishnu come in when Gorakh Nath come in, they are him too just reinvented in another form. This is what modern day "sikhs" refuse to understand, they rather hang on to their ego that we are special and above everyone else, like the misled brahmins of the past, that is what they have become today. No understanding just trying to portray they want to see him not what he actually is. Not by What he is actually saying.