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Let me throw this in: In all of the bull5hit about caste amongst our lot, how about this approach? When you meet a next Sikh and get to know them, judge whether this person is an ar5ehole or not (this goes for both male and females), based on how they conduct themselves and live their lives. This doesn't mean we expect puritanical behaviour from them, just that overall - is this a good person or not? Is this person a liability to the quom or not? Is this a solid person or not? Don't worry about what job their ancestors have done. This fudhu obsession apnay have with trying to find some sort of greatness in their caste is such a waste of time when we have so many other real issues to deal with. I mean are people REALLY that insecure with being Sikhs that they have to dredge up extra crap to bolster up their self-image?

Not due to high avastha, or to suicide, but yes to life experiences detaching from worldly things. I can't reply from a Gursikhs or Gurmat point of view, only to my own life experience, when there comes a time, where you've seen all the relatives and friends play and due to own karms, you've seen the lowest negativity you can get in and you think to yourself God's name is the only thing that really matters, that helps one to go through the journey of life, which include good and bad phases. And then you think beyond all the la la laa, what's everybody running around for, eh v hojave, oh v hojave, when nothing's going with nobody, neither materialistic, neither stubbornness, neither jealousy, nor Ahankar or anger or maya, or time. Time is the most valuable I've realised to do it in the present, what you need to do.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Sena-holds-havan-for-soldiers-killed-in-Bluestar/articleshow/10505.cms Shiv Sena does Yajnas, poojas, Havans every year is well known in dedication for the Indian army terrorists who conducted operation bluestar brutally killing thousands of Sikhs. This is also reported by Tribune India when they started doing this openly. This is the height of shamelessness on the part of Hindu groups. And congress only conducted operation bluestar due to the pressure put on them by BJP and it's affiliated hardline Hindutva groups. Read Advani's biography where he takes credit for operation bluestar where he says that the real credit for attack belongs to him/BJP as he pressured Indira Gandhi to attack the Sri Darbar Sahib. After the attack, all these Hindutva groups had declared Indira Gandhi as Durga Mata who had destroyed the Rakshas people who in this case are the Sikhs in their twisted minds. Operation bluestar was fully supported by the Hindu population across North India and Punjab. Indira Gandhi knew if she didn't attack then congress will lose all the votes in North India to the jan sangh/bjp. After the attack, congress won a landslide electoral victory all over India

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Some good points made there about seeing the person who they are and not their caste. When I read this topic I thought I was dreaming and thought did I actually read it. Who cares what hierarchy one is placed. Caste does not go with one's soul, but the actions and bhagti of a person do. All this caste talk isn't doing nothing for nobody and besides people's jobs have changed so what's the point in doing a hierarchy table of whose highest or lowest. For God there is no high or low caste. Sikhi does not promote caste. I'm surprised this topic hasn't been locked.

I got a feeling this 1diot has been playing way too many XBOX games and and blurred his fantasies and reality with the video.

I'm going to play this when guests come round ? Its that tune they play when they make me hold for 1hr when I call customer services of Electric, phone, Argos, Next, even the docs now ?

These days in the west maybe it's different? I know the vege sides of the family do actually consume soya based foods. Whether it is enough to effect them hormonally - I don't know.

Thank you for your valued reply ji. I see it as a blessing from Guru Sahib as not many can remove themselves from attachment of things or people. I have been going through this for quite some time now. Around 5 years ago I began reciting Salok Mahalla 9 several times daily. Dhan Guru Teg Bahadur Ji Sahib's bachan have been hitting me so hard since then. I often recite one line throughout the day when looking around me at things, objects, people, the world "Jag rachna sab choot hai, Jaan layo ray meet". I feel I want to leave this world somehow. Had this very strong feeling for many years now. Akaal

Forget about effects on youth. It has an effect on us all both consciously and subconsciously. It makes out that drinking and being a caste bigoted <banned word filter activated> is acceptable. we need to eradicate certain elements of some bhangra songs from the main stream. Dont underestimate the power of the media and music and how it shapes our behaviour. Just because you yourself might not get influenced what about the thousands who do. Look at the well known myth about Punjabis. 'That we are big drinkers' people then feel proud of this tag and try to live up to it in real life. Traditional bhangra without silly caste references are perfectly fine. Its the modern songs which feature women, booze and caste nonsense in a disrespectful way.

Gurfateh Ji, Thank you for sharing. I have been doing some research and come across "Bhagauthi Astotar". Mainly recited by Nihung Singh's and taken from Sri Dasam Granth. Also found this article online - http://sikh-reality.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/bhagauti-astotar-paat-is-very-rare.html?m=1 Akaal

Bhagauthi as in reference to the Sri Sahib/Shastar. Akaal

"God as never listened to any ardaas my mum has made.................. Mum had asked for a great Mother-in-law, ............... Mum had asked for a son ................... Asked for he Brother to have a son...................... Mum wants her family in India to live a comfortable life ......................... Mum had asked for the younger brother to come to the uk ........... God never listens to any of our prayers, making us have trust issues " You have legs when so much of the world doesn't. You have arms when so much of the world dosen't. You have food when so much of the world doesn't. You have freedom when so much of the world dosen't. You can see when so much of the world doesn't. You have a roof over your head when so much of the world doesn't. At the end of the day HE has given us so much already that HE should, by rights, take some things away from us. He has given us too much. Thats why I strongly dislike the idea of asking for anything in ardas and absolutely detest the parcharaks that recruit amritdharis on the back of the promise of 'their desires coming true through prayer'. The truth of the matter is that the Sikh Ardas on its own has all the answers we need and the ability to provide everything we could possibly want. Its just that we as a people are not intelligent enough to understand that fact. The official Sikh Ardaas provides us with instruction of how to live and eat healthy,,,,,remain positive etc. By actually listening to the actual ardas we are provided with the tools to concentrate well in studies....have a healthy body....combat depression by releasing natural serotonin etc. The fact is you or your mother were asking for more when he had already given you more than most people on earth have. The laws of natural justice then took effect.

This is video explains how it starts and has always....... first slowly the peaceful muslims settle in non-muslim nations and communities. In all likelihood your best neighbors will probably be muslim because they are friendly, peaceful and decent unlike other people you encounter. You wont complain as you prefer a muslim neighbour than people you already know but dont get on too well with. Then when they have enough numbers they start to give you "dawah" which is like pestering you to convert to their abrahamic cult like jehova witnesses do but with larger numbers, they will try to put down other faiths and ideologies by mocking them or trying to debate and groom vulnerable people to islam. Then when they have enough numbers they vote in a votebank way to sway elections to get special interests and privileges for their faith or if they dont get their own way they start to fight a physical war slowly by first provoking attacks and when the authorities in charge react they cry persecution and oppression and start to wage "fisabillah jihad" which is the physical war against non-muslims and non-musim states.

God definately knows and listens to all, including ardaas. It's just that it is upto him to say yes or no. Sometimes the answer is yes but with some delay. For some the answer is "no" alot of the time. This is becase we all have different relationships with Vaheguru. Vaheguru also judges according to our past karam from countless lifetimes. So it's very complex. We cannot ever understand the way Vaheguru sees or judges things. Our job is to just keep hoping that he will show some mercy to us. We are mere worms, we are truly powerless. We can only beg Vaheguru, it's upto him to accept our ardaas. The more pyaar we develop with Vaheguru the greater the chances of him saying "yes" to our ardaas. But it's still upto him. We can only keep begging, there's nothing else we can do.

There is quite a bit one can do to make singers aware of what they are releasing is creating negativity for youth. Yes people have freedom to listen to what they want to, but also it's up to the older ones or those that can see where the Bhangra scene is heading towards, to create awareness of the negativity and effects of it. That's what social media is for to air one's opnions. Why are we worried? Because it's our kids that are listening to bakwas and getting brainwashed. Just because they may not be from our families, they are still our youth. And they shouldn't be told once only, how is that going to make any difference. Besides telling somebody not to do something isn't going work. It's got to be done in a creative way, so the youth listen to it themselves and then think about it, which would sway their taste in the type of songs they listen to. The other thing is most of us on here have been through that phase, listening to rubbish songs, or we may still be listening to them, but it's how they effect somebody's minds that needs to be considered. It's the singers that need to be told, as they are in it for the money only. They don't care about others kids getting into bad company as long as it's not their own, and their pockets are filled. They keep saying they only produce songs that are in demand. What a load of nonsense that is, there's some singers that sing songs you can listen to within a family setting, so obviously that's not the case of demand and supply. So why can't those singers do the same. Because it's them that set this scene for the Punjabi community of drugs, guns, flashy cars,etc etc, trying to compete with English mainstream music. The Bhangra industry now is so messed up, that there's no meanings to the lyrics. They don't even make sense, or are one liners only with the same tune and no theme, but as Daljit paji mentioned.

The horrors of 1984 pales into insignificance compared to 1947! Do Sikhs realize the Moslems laid claim to Amritsar, imagine this Harmandir Sahib located in an Islamic Country!!! http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/The_Battle_for_Amritsar,_1947

Bhangra has (in my opinion) opened up roads into our community which are very negative. And I'm not talking from a conservative position, but experience. The problem is the generally braindead nature of the music. Sure some odd exceptions might exist but generally it is an unsophisticated medium which frequently encourages undercover romantics, casteism and drinking. It's the Panjabi equivalent of a barn dance culture - but even worse than the western counterparts. It was the bhangra industry in the 80s that opened up apneean to predators and gave apnay a reputation as hedonistic, dancing drunk imbeciles. When you meet your typical casteist fudhu, 9 times out of 10, they are primed and brainwashed by songs from this medium. It's a shame that our people can't create more sophisticated music that might well influence apnay and apneean for the better. Music has potential in keeping language alive, and as a medium to discuss social issues, like rap (at its best does) but sadly our lot seem lost in other more mundane chakars.

It's sad that some Punjabi people abandon their elders. Doing seva of your elders is very important and one should never ignore this duty

His reasoning is based on a false premise. He states: Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji does not teach to be a universal human. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teaches a person to follow the teaches of gurmat and become a Sikh. Sakhi of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji rejecting the janeu is widely known. The sakhi tells us, Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji did not accept the janeu, which was a Brahmin celebration festival. Notice how the writer never writes how he would celebrate Diwali. Ask these guys why are they celebrating and they won't know why. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji taught Sikhs to be mindful of their actions. Also notice how such writers never write to tell why they would be celebrating the release of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji even though the Indian government will not be. This writer mind is enslaved to the materialistic world. He knew the materialistic world would approve of his message and he catered to them.