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I think it's unbelievably disrespectful. "It is unclear how long this turban has been in the Museum’s collection, but it originally dates from the late 19th century and had come to London by the early 1900s. The turban displayed weapons, including two double-edged swords, six throwing discs, and one dagger, and a badge of the 45th Rattray’s Sikh Battalion, which eventually became the 3rd Battalion Sikh Regiment of the present-day Indian Army." A Nihang Singh would have never handed over his Dastar, no Singh would have removed Dastar without unraveling it. Moreover, the Boonga would have been inter-twined with the kesh. If it belongs to this era, and to the Nihang misle, then the Singh would have become shaheed at the hands of gora tyrants, and they kept his Dastar as a souvenir.

As someone who is interested by religious and spiritual matters across the board, I'm also concerned about how Sikhs - who are otherwise respectable, educated and productive members of society - seem to dismiss Sikhi. I don't even think its out of disrespect but they feel the faith overwhelms them at times. There's a few people I've met who have stopped believing in God (and by association, taken an active decision to extricate themselves from the Sikh faith) and they've cited the in-fighting between various groups within Sikhi as an issue, as well as the assertion from proper Sikhs (i.e. those who have taken Amrit) that anyone non-Amritdhari has no voice in Sikhi and has no right to call themself a Sikh. Then there's the problems between those who contest the validity of certain holy scriptures, and finally theres the issues surrounding the caste system. I'm told by these people that there isn't a consensus across the board - there isn't one agenda that can be followed by all. I argue that there is and its the path of the Khalsa, but like my brothers have mentioned before me, it is a difficult path to tread and some people don't wish to trouble themselves to that extent. Therefore instead of looking within and highlighting their own deficencies, they lash out and blame others - and the Sikh faith - for their own failings. Then there's the minority who think its cool to be atheist (or a non-believer) nowadays. I'm not joking, sangat. Being an atheist is almost a badge of honour in this day and age. They see the likes of Richard Dawkins who present thoroughly convincing arguments for there not being a God, and their weak minds are easily swayed to believing that in order to be a progressive and forward-thinking individual, antiquated and ancient or medieval practices such as religion are no longer relevant in modern life. Personally, I think its laziness. There's no desire within these individuals to learn anything about Sikhi. Without attempting to discover the jewels within our faith, they assume Sikhi must be like every other religion, and therefore invalid. Its an increasing problem amongst the upwardly mobile sections of our people, and one that must be addressed.

The so called Sikhs that were against Sant ji in 1980 were splitting up the Panth. Sant ji calls these congress lovers out and shames them in his speeches. Don't you think Sant ji didn't know the Panth was being split then? Was that his name or someone else name? I think it's pathetic, that you don't know the facts behind this whole discussion and wanted to get a post in, to look cool at Sikh sangat......look at me. Did Sant ji sit with the congress lovers and fight side by side with them? No. Dal Khalsa and BSSF are no different than those so called Sikh groups that still support Congress and did in the late 70s to early 80s. This clearly shows you don't know what your talking about. This thread is showing the dubious role that Dal Khalsa and BSSF are playing in the Khalsa Panth, who love Darshan Laal, who is a gurnidak and is on a mission to break naive Sikhs from Gurmat. What does this have to do with this thread. But the fact your throwing this around like its a small, issues shows your committment to the unity of the Khalsa Panth. You just got into Sikhi, so your making final statements already. I'm be the naive Sikh now and ask you a question. What happened to being a Sikh that always learns......thats what Sikh means...... a learner. Consider this post slander againt you, but next time keep the pathetic part to yourself or the samething will happen. Next time put your thinking cap on a little tighter before you step into topics you don't know much about.

These organizations write him great sikh just to show sangat . In reality they oppose everything Sant Bhindrewale stood for.

Where are the so-called spokesmen of these papertiger organisations? Sangat demands some answers from you, care to reply?

Sangat Update Birmingham, UK - 11 February 2011 Satkaar Campaign live on Sikh Channel Sunday 13 February 2011 at 7pm (GMT) Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Sevadaars of the UK Sangat-led Satkaar Campaign will be contributing to a two-hour live show at 7pm on Sunday 13 February on the Sikh Channel (Sky Channel 840). The show will be covering wider issues of Satkaar for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, which are areas of concern for the Satkaar Campaign. The show will also discuss a Sikh's relationship with Guru Ji and focus on the requirements for Satkaar mandated by Akaal Takht Sahib. We understand that the Sangat may have the opportunity to contribute to this show by calling in on +44 (0) 121 380 1050. The discussion show will be presented by Kam Singh of the Sikh Youth Project, and will involve a lead panel, as well as an active studio audience. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Falling in love with this temporary life, people in it and dunia is easy. Being on the path of Sikhism is the hardest, because its all about conquering your mind, as gurbani states conquer your mind you will conquer the world. And it's all about quality control only those who have Sikhi in their hearts will get salvation the rest drunk in this dunia (the vast majority) will not realise God because they have devoted their life around illusionary concepts of secularism/hedonism/individualism rather than thinking what Sikhism and in particular what SGGS Ji demands of them. It is very easy to chuck your faith away for an easy life but when you look back at history you think of how Sikhs were offered choice of life or death they always chose death rather than live like slaves for an easy life and enjoying the pleasures of this life. We have some of the worst generation's of Sikh's at the moment. But think of it this way.... it's all part of Waheguru's Hukam and master plan new leaders will come new solutions will come to problems that are facing the community.And also take heart from history, when stories dishearten you remember you are not alone you are in good company with those who stuck to the path of Sikhism even at the pain of death because the reward is eternal bliss. No Sikh wants to come back as a rat, or some meaningless insect in the next life.

Why cant they hire people who are British born Sikhs? surely a channel that caters for UK Sikhs should have those raised in the west.The language of the presenter seema is appalling this is Sikh channel not punjabi or bhangra channel. Not impressed.

The joke wasn't about the rehnsabhais but the fact that people would be attracted to travel to Birmingham, on their way to a rehnsabhai, i.e. a rehnsabhai is incentive to travel to the city of the damned. I lolled, chatanga Ji - it was a funny joke. :D

Pass it on to people who don't know what really went on leading to 1984 and who Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale was.

Hold up im cite on this site that caveman is not a Niddar supporter. Now does that make this citation true? Reliability is a huge factor, when it comes to determining credible sources. Here is another example: I say the world is flat because a caveman in thousands of years ago said it is and he read it from another caveman who is a hindu. So it must be true the world is flat. Niddar needs to move past his hate against the Khalsa Panth and get off the payroll of the Indian Government.

I'm not a fan of cliches, but respect is earned, not prostituted.

Waheguroo Waheguroo!!! Sant Ji was a great Gursikh who not only attracted youth in 84, but even now. Youth look up to Sant Ji years after 84. Now that speaks for itself on Sant Ji's character. :waheguru: :waheguru: :waheguru: :waheguru:

Singh you spoke to soon, you should have waited till this weekend passes. Now Dal Khalsa and BSSF are going to make an emergency meeting and set up a Akhand paat for tomorrow. And now they are going to cover up the mistake with a surprise Akhand Paat.

hahahaha, lol so london 7/7 was the fault of the edl, all the potential terrorist attacks in this country that the security services have stopped were the fault of the edl, the muslim grooming gangs were the fault of the edl, the poppy burners and those who insult british troops were the fault of the edl, the muslim gangs going around beating up innocents were the fault of the edl, get a grip, (and thats just in this country) okay disagree with what the EDL is doing but DO NOT say there is no problem with islamic extremists/some muslims in this country Infact it is the edl who have come together to defend its community from miltiant silam and muslim gangs. By the way edl started last yr, islam extremists has been goin for 1400 yrs duhhh, typical left wing bull@@@@, ignore the cause of the problem and blame some1 else

In My Strong Opinion, ‘Turban Campaign’ Is Directly Working For Islam Extremism Paapees! If They Are Directly Doing It (Which Is Very Possible: UAF Is A Muslim Extremist ‘Machine’ Run By Muslims From The Behind!) Or Indirectly Because They Are Muslim Extremism Brown Noses! Either Way! ‘Turban Campaign’ Work For Islamist Demons! Directly Or Indirectly! ‘Turban Campaign’ Is Strengthening ‘Osama Bin Ladens Dirty Turban!’ ‘TURBAN CAMPAIGN’ HAS BEEN MANIPULATED TO WORK FOR MUSLIM AGENDA !!!!!!!! YOU STUPID IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND IT IS TRUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINDUS ARE INVOLVED AS WELL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINDUS ARE THE ONES WHO GOT SIKHS SHAHEED BY PAYING MUSLIMS TO DO IT TO MAKE SIKHS FIGHT FOR INDIA ETC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINDUS HAVE BEEN PLAYING THESE DIRTY GAMES USING SIKHS WHEN THEY NEED THEM AND DESTROYING THEM WHEN THEY DON’T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINDUS CUNNINGLY DO THINGS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND MUSLIMS DO THEM UP FRONT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GET IT ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! HINDUS AND MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN ATTACKING SIKHS AND ARE ATTACKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU STUPID IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TurbanCampaign, you clearly have your head in the clouds. If you read news stories past and present in regards to radical elements within the muslim community you will see how much they dispise the non-muslims and other ways of life that is not islamic. As we all know the gurdwara committee's are the older generation who are corrupt and out of touch with what the younger sangat feels, ask your average Sikh on the street and they will tell you straight up they neither support EDL or want anything to do with an organisation that has Islamo-fascists within its ranks. What you are doing is trying to create a polarization within our community and forcing them to take sides.

I Would Not Exactly Join The EDL. But I Think It Is Fair To Post Their Side Of The Story. From http://englishdefenceleague.org/content.php?136 EDL MISSION STATEMENT Attachment 72 EDL MISSION STATEMENT “The world is a dangerous place to live in; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” - Albert Einstein, refugee from Nazi Germany People have been asking what the EDL is all about, what does it want to achieve, how will it achieve those things? Well now the English Defence League has a Mission Statement...... (1) HUMAN RIGHTS: Protecting And Promoting Human Rights The English Defence League (EDL) is a human rights organisation that was founded in the wake of the shocking actions of a small group of Muslim extremists who, at a homecoming parade in Luton, openly mocked the sacrifices of our service personnel without any fear of censure. Although these actions were certainly those of a minority, we believe that they reflect other forms of religiously-inspired intolerance and barbarity that are thriving amongst certain sections of the Muslim population in Britain: including, but not limited to, the denigration and oppression of women, the molestation of young children, the committing of so-called honour killings, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and continued support for those responsible for terrorist atrocities. Whilst we must always protect against the unjust assumption that all Muslims are complicit in or somehow responsible for these crimes, we must not be afraid to speak freely about these issues. This is why the EDL will continue to work to protect the inalienable rights of all people to protest against radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non-Muslims. We also recognise that Muslims themselves are frequently the main victims of some Islamic traditions and practices. The Government should protect the individual human rights of members of British Muslims. It should ensure that they can openly criticise Islamic orthodoxy, challenge Islamic leaders without fear of retribution, receive full equality before the law (including equal rights for Muslim women), and leave Islam if they see fit, without fear of censure. British Muslims should be able to safely demand reform of their religion, in order to make it more relevant to the needs of the modern world and more respectful of other groups in society. It is important that they completely reject the views of those who believe that Islam should be taken in its ‘original’, 7th century form, because these interpretations are the antithesis of Western democracy. The onus should be on British Muslims to overcome the problems that blight their religion and achieve nothing short of an Islamic reformation. In line with this, we should do all that we can to empower those who are willing to take this path. We must also ensure that they do not fear reprisals from those who, in line with these 7th century interpretations, would force sharia law upon them. The EDL calls upon the Government to repeal legislation that prevents effective freedom of speech, for freedom of speech is essential if the human rights abuses that sometimes manifest themselves around Islam are to be stopped. We believe that the proponents of radical Islam have a stranglehold on British Muslims. These radicals dominate Muslim organisations, remain key figures in British mosques, and are steadily increasing their influence. Radical Islam keeps British Muslims fearful and isolated, especially the women that it encases in the Burqa. It misrepresents their views, stifles freedom of expression, and indoctrinates their children, whilst continually doing a discredit to those who do wish to peacefully co-exist with their fellow Britons. (2) DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW: Promoting Democracy And The Rule Of Law By Opposing Sharia The European Court of Human Rights has declared that “sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy”. Despite this, there are still those who are more than willing to accommodate sharia norms, and who believe that sharia can operate in partnership with our existing traditions and customs. In reality, sharia cannot operate fully as anything other than a complete alternative to our existing legal, political, and social systems. It is a revolution that this country does not want, and one that it must resist. Sharia is most definitely a threat to our democracy. The operation of Islamic courts, the often unreasonable demand that Islam is given more respect than it is due, and the stealthy incursion of halal meat into the food industry, all demonstrate that sharia is already creeping into our lives. Resentment is already beginning to grow, and could create dangerous divisions if nothing is done. The primacy of British courts must be maintained and defended, fair criticism of religious and political ideologies must be permitted, and consumers must be provided with the information necessary to avoid halal produce should they wish. Restaurants and fast food chains that do offer halal options should offer non-halal alternatives as well, in order to show respect for other people’s religions, customs, and possible concerns about animal welfare issues (surrounding ritual slaughter). No one should be made to consume halal produce unwittingly, so it must always be labeled - in supermarkets, in restaurants, in schools, and in hospitals - wherever it is available. Free choice in these matters is, after all, a fundamental human right for everybody, not just the Muslim community. Sharia law makes a fundamental distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims, and the EDL will never allow this sort of iniquitous apartheid to take root in our country. The EDL will therefore oppose sharia appeasement in all its forms, and will actively work to eradicate the sharia-compliant behaviours that are already being adopted, and enforced, in our society. (3) PUBLIC EDUCATION: Ensuring That The Public Get A Balanced Picture Of Islam A central part of the EDL’s mission is public education. The British political and media establishment have, for a long time, been presenting a very sanitised and therefore inaccurate view of Islam, shaped by the needs of policy-makers rather than the needs of the public. This has acted as a barrier to informed policy-making and made finding the solution to real problems impossible. In pursuing this self-defeating and destructive policy, the Government has effectively been acting as the propaganda arm of the Muslim Brotherhood. Whether or not is aware of the predicament that it has put itself in, it has so far failed to honestly admit its failures. We are committed to a campaign of public education to ensure that all aspects of Islam that impact on our society can debated in an open and honest way. Demonisation of Muslims, or of Islam’s critics, adds nothing to the debate. We believe that only by looking at all the facts can society be most effectively and humanly governed. If there are aspects of Muslim tradition that encourage the activities of Islamic radicals and criminals then these need to be properly addressed without fear of accusations of racism, xenophobia, or the even the disingenuous term ‘Islamophobia’. The public must be provided with a more realistic and less sanitised view of Islam that allows it to ensure that decision-makers are held to account for their policy-making choices, choices that affect the harmony and security of the nation. The EDL promotes the understanding of Islam and the implications for non-Muslims forced to live alongside it. Islam is not just a religious system, but a political and social ideology that seeks to dominate all non-believers and impose a harsh legal system that rejects democratic accountability and human rights. It runs counter to all that we hold dear within our British liberal democracy, and it must be prepared to change, to conform to secular, liberal ideals and laws, and to contribute to social harmony, rather than causing divisions. (4) RESPECTING TRADITION: Promoting The Traditions And Culture Of England While At The Same Time Being Open To Embrace The Best That Other Cultures Can Offer The EDL believes that English Culture has the right to exist and prosper in England. We recognise that culture is not static, that over time changes take place naturally, and that other cultures make contributions that make our shared culture stronger and more vibrant. However, this does not give license to policy-makers to deliberately undermine our culture and impose non-English cultures on the English people in their own land. If people migrate to this country then they should be expected to respect our culture, its laws, and its traditions, and not expect their own cultures to be promoted by agencies of the state. The best of their cultures will be absorbed naturally and we will all be united by the enhanced culture that results. The onus should always be on foreign cultures to adapt and integrate. If said cultures promote anti-democratic ideas and refuse to accept the authority of our nation’s laws, then the host nation should not be bowing to these ideas in the name of ‘cultural sensitivity’. Law enforcement personnel must be able to enforce the rule of law thoroughly without prejudice or fear. Everyone, after all, is supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law. The EDL is therefore keen to draw its support from people of all races, all faiths, all political persuasions, and all lifestyle choices. Under its umbrella, all people in England, whatever their background, or origin, can stand united in a desire to stop the imposition of the rules of Islam on non-believers. In order to ensure the continuity of our culture and its institutions, the EDL stands opposed to the creeping Islamisation of our country, because intimately related to the spread of Islamic religion is the political desire to implement an undemocratic alternative to our cherished way of life: the sharia. Our armed forces stand up and risk their lives every day in order to protect our culture and democratic way of life. They are also reflective of England’s diversity, and are a shining example of what a people can achieve when united together. The EDL is therefore committed to opposing any and all abuse that our men and women in uniform are subjected to, and will campaign for legal remedies to ensure that those working within these important institutions are not exposed to abuse or aggression from within our country. (5) INTERNATIONAL OUTLOOK: Working In Solidarity With Others Around The World The EDL is keen to join with others who share our values, wherever they are in the world, and from whatever cultural background they derive. We believe that the demand for sharia is global and therefore needs to be tackled at a global as well as national level, so that this demand will never be succumbed to. The EDL will therefore have an international outlook to enhance and strengthen our domestic efforts, whilst at the same time contributing to the global struggle against Islamic intolerance of Western cultures, customs, religions, politics, and laws. The time for tolerating intolerance has come to an end: it is time for the whole world to unite against a truly Global Jihad. Also: http://englishdefenceleague.org/content.php?170-In-Defence-of-the-Asian-Community

Turbancampaign, can you do the Sikhs a favor and change the name of your campaign or something. You are not representative of the majority of British Sikh community's view. I believe our community neither suppports EDL or your lot, they are neutral. The EDL have a right to protest against islamification of their country and erosion of their heritage and way of life by islamists and their gangs. Do not side with the islamists and give us a bad name as you will turn many of the youth into the hands of the EDL as I know our community would rather side with the english nationalists as patriots of this land than islamo-fascists who hate non-muslims and have infiltrated UAF by the banner of MDL (Muslim Defence League).

Fact is HSD wants to run off to north America he thinks he can deal with muzzles is that why the Sikh community fear them and can't even run a Sikh chnl while muzzies have 20 plus channels it's due to the baba followers the rally is not gd ,your one of them jokers who thinks hE knws everything yet he's just a wannabe posh lad.I'm pure anti bhaman and sharia and knw hw the intelligence agencies of India work. I refuse to continue to discuss with you go to a UAF rally and dnt lecture me on edl Sikhs like you live off past glory

HSD you chat crap old chap, Bhamans covertly fund Islamic fanatics to set up in Sikh areas through their agents ,even the islamists don;t know this- as they fund Talibans in Pakistan to destablise the country - the double game is where they sign s***t statements full of Bhaman names and Mandirs and then label it Sikh Community . Hindu boys openly introduce our girls to <banned word filter activated> at clubs and gigs as they suck up to them like dogs like some of our people do.Do as many rubbish statements as you want Balwinder Rana with your fellow RSS cronies - we aint having it.The game is to turn the average british population against us - make us look like we are siding with the Muslims while at the same time cause Sikh/Muslim tension either through issues of girls converting or other issues,conversions happen I agree but there is always a bhaman along the line somehwere.You might as well get the Hindu forum of Britain to sign your statement - and Seva international Hindu terror backers,who openly insult Sikh Shaheeds. HSD goes emigrate ,lol to where Hindustan?You will find these Islamics everywhere in every nation,our forefathers worked hard to build up what we have here - the problem with you people is you fear <banned word filter activated> like the devil .If a girl wants to marry a Islamic the majority of the community is shocked hai hai musalman ya we can't have this happening - as you fear them so much its in your blood to fear them,but when the local Bhaman munda wants to marry a girl oh teekya appa vi hinduan cho ya - this brotherhood crap that Sikhs are Hindus.Point being you fear islamics so much you would not dare side with an anti Islamic group ,rather side with the very organisations and people who have taken our nation commited genocide - Bhamans Those who attack our youths,rob them and have sex with our girls who then ran off with them. EDL are more than welcome to attend the 1984 rally - the Pakhandis can step aside or even bring it if they want to ,I'd rather have the EDL at a British Sikh Rally rather than a traitor or agent of the Indian Govt. Also Sikhs in EDL are more than welcome to fly Khalistan Flags

HSD - The EDL is the only nationalist movement Sikh Youths can relate to we have had it up to our necks with these Muslims attacking Sikhs across the country,I gaurantee my life the Sikhs will never EVER be thrown out of the UK - the movement is a nationalist one not a political party like the BNP. India plays double games and Hindus have nothing to loose either way ,where as the Sikhs have.....the time to choose sides has come we ain't gna stand in the middle ground either we choose Britain or Sharia law - I knw which I choose EDL'S KEVIN CARROL JUST GOT SHOT SEVERAL TIMES BY MUSLIMS OUTSIDE HIS HOUSE ,the time is comming these <banned word filter activated> will create violence at any given chance we being Sikh youths know that we just don't have the brains to choose sides.No Nazi Scum who may be hanging around in the EDL crowds can subdue the Sikhs,where as the whole Islamic faith is egging on for sharia and conversions halal meat and abuse of the kafir

We live in england our families and kids live here it is only right we do what we can do support the Country against Islamists.I for one am for a Khalistani flag or a Khanda at an EDL rally if we can have Khandas at Vaisakhi events at India House at our Dushamans HQ in England so can we at an EDL rally.This will shake the walls of Delhi Sarkar - and will secure our identity as British Sikh not a fricking NRI or whatever they call it - this made up phrase.This will also send a message to Hindu fanatics that we are not Indians rather BRITISH SIKHS and we are not loyal to the Bhamans of India Govt we live in Britain we eat here we sh**t here and most of us die here! Hindus have no BIG reason to support EDL ,they have their mansions in Wembley and Hindu areas for when the trouble kicks off it will only be Sikhs Hindu businesses men like a Mr Patel of Sharma will go hide and all of it will be financed by the Indian Govt ie : protection and so on.Where will Sikhs go? Our best shot is siding with GB against Fanatic Islamists who are a threat to our boys/girls as well as families - its due to these Islamists we are in a recesion as our govt hands out benefits

lol again as i repeated many times to you Dalsingh, you know nothing about me, so please dont make assumptions

Come along with your Khalistani flag to a demo and fly it to your hearts content, i assure you, you will be welcome and if you want you can lead the demo. The edl wanted to come to the annual hyde park rally to show their support for the Sikh community. We advised them that it probably wasn't a good idea due to the narrow mindedness of some members of our owwn communtiy Maybe it doesn't need sikh support, but personally, i am not gonna sit back and be a keyboard warrior on an issue i feel passionate about.

lol we've actually seen sikh flags on demos and asked ppl to remove them as it's not appropriate. We have been asked to lead demos carrying the Nishann Sahib, again we felt its not appropriate. Think what you want, at the end of the day we are doing what we feels needs to be done. Militant islam, Muslim grooming gangs etc are a bigger threat in our country than any other group at the moment. and in the process if we can educate a few gorai about sikhs, then so be it

so your saying i'm not welcome here in sangat?

Before the usual suspects get on my back, or my posts are deleted. Look beyond the media and do your own research. I’ve been to over 10 demos and meets and not had any trouble and if anything have been treated with the utmost respect. The only trouble I had was from a group of black lads who due to the media thought the ‘kkk’ were in town, lol, the klu Klux klan have never even had a ‘branch’ in the UK Yes, I am not naïve to think racists wont try to attach themselves to this movement, but it’s upto the leaders to influence what direction it moves in, and IMHO the leaders/promeninet members including a number of Sikhs are trying to keep the focus on militant Islam and if anything bring about mutual understanding and awareness between different communities in our country.

UAF Is A Cunning Islamist Extremist Front Run By Dirty Islamist Extremists From The Behind.

Just Saying, This Rana Fella Is A Mona Who Runs ‘Turban Campaign’. I Wouldn’t Be Surprised If He Is A Secret Islam Convert Using Propaganda Tactics. Why Would Anyone Want To Convert To Islam? Oh Yeah, Then They Have Excuses To Do Evil. Why Doesn’t He, Rana, Put Up His Picture Under The Name ‘Turban Campaign’ On This Forum And Elsewhere. Oh Yeah! Then Everyone Would See His Deceptive Tactics! This Mona Rana Character Is Very Cunning! I Am Confident He Works For Islam Extremists. Having Said That. I Wouldn’t Necessarily Join The EDL, NO. I Would Definitely Educate Them However On The Differences Between Sikhs And Muslims. I Would Educate The Entire UK And World On Sikhi !! I Am Confident (Though Many Won’t Agree) But Many People Of The EDL Will Actually Respect Sikhi !! (Even Though Sikhi Is Very Much Against The Culture Of Drinking Etc) Many Would Actually Perhaps Even ‘Find The Light’ Through Sikhi !! The Islam Extremism That EDL Is Fighting Against, Is GOOD; But, Sikhs Need To Represent Themselves. I Am Talking About True Khalsa Aashikhs. Not Super Glued Dhaaree, Starched Helmets, Towel Head So Called Scholars No Jeevan Brown Noses. True Saint Soldier Inspired Aashikhs With Royal Dastaar Crowns. The UK Government Are Islam Extremist Brown Noses. And This Is Very Dangerous. People Need To Understand That There Is Evil That Is Preached In The Quran. Stop Being Brown Noses Like So Called ‘Turban Campaign’ Run By Mona Cunning Propagandists. ALL EVIL FROM EVERYWHERE WILL BE DESTROYED WORLDWIDE !!!!! TRUE KHALSA WILL RISE AND RULE THE HEARTS OF ALL WORLDWIDE !!!!! CHARDHI KALAA !!!

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh I had actually stopped posting on here as even though DalSingh always replyed to my posts in a respectful manner, they just kept going around in circles. Also the admin at the time said they didn’t want any so called ‘edl’ propaganda so were deleting everything. Recently A post was made about how edl members got a fb group comparing the darstar of the Sikhs with bin ladin shut down- not Sikhs, but gorai, and the admin shut that post down. Thus I get the impression that any1 with any link to the edl is not welcome to this ‘SANGAT’. However, I will post again. 1)Where are the statements from these so called sikh orgs condemning grooming by Pakistani groups not just to sikh girls but all girls in England. Where are the statements condemning attacks in this country and all the arrests benign made preventing terrorist attacks, where are alL the statements saying don’t label all as ‘ASIANS’ BUT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN Sikhs/hindues/Mulsims etc 2)So what if Sikhs support the EDL, maybe they are also fed up of all the issues with islamists in this country, and DalSingh before you say ‘don’t side with goray’ I don’t see any1 else taking a stand, and I and I am sure many others would stand side by side with you if you take the initiative?? 3) No one has the right to speak on behalf of the sikh community and I think the turban campaign if they are so passionate about what they belive in, they should focus on the real issues and not just get in to a ‘postion’ by condemning fellow Sikhs. I have wrote in the past a detailed argument of if not supporting the edl at least knowing they are not what the media portray and that don’t us fall into the hype, lets see how long this post lasts before I write anymore. Off to a meeting to educate 50 so called ‘racist chavy uneducated gorai’ about the difference between Singhs and Muslims J

Again, you inability to read and understand anything is mind boggling. How you are even allowed to type on this forum is beyond me. Page 1 of this topic, I said we should not side with EDL. You write back to agree. Page 2. I say we should speak to Singh's who are experienced in this field. (again what you repeated here) Now you say I make buhaney to support EDL? ok read page 1 again. Quote: "You keep going on about how apneean get manipulated by sullay" how many times exactly has that been mentioned here?. now all of a sudden. Stop Press. The crazy news factory that is Dal's singhs head:- We must to highlight how Goreh are turning Apeanan into bimbos if we are going to condemn islamists. This is only fair and must be done in conjunction. What is all the Sikhi parchar in aid of? the Sikh channel? the camps? yes, believe it or not its so our youth do not conform to kaljulic western society and instead take up sikhi. You have no logic of your own. There is no proactive sikhi parchar, or panthic issues raise by yourself. You spend you time nit picking and manipulating other peoples opinions. your own opinions change even time you press the keys on your keyboard. You'd make a great indian politician. serious dude, your on the wrong forum. Go to your indian Santa banta joke page along with the rest of your sell out types. and if you come back with a sardar ji joke ima put you 6 foot under

Dal Singh, you have an innate inability to read and understand what is written. Instead you draw absurd childish conclusions based on assumptions only to fuel more unnecessary replies and create long rubbish thread. As can be seen on most your other replies. I am not going to rebut what you said. because it is not worthy of it. But I will bullet point my argument, For the sake of other youth who may find it of use. As for you Bhaman style santa banta joke. We will deal with this on another occasion, as I'd avoid a spectacle on the net for all to see. Far better to sit down and discuss your attitude in person. * As Sikhs we need to weigh up the REAL threat of the EDL right now, We must be intelligent enough to understand who they are and not what the media proclaim them to be. Do they have valid points? I think so. Are they infiltrated by NF/BNP? more than likely. So far they have not shown any hostility to any other faith group. Unlike NF they have black and mixed members. They have valid points on Pakistani Gang grooming, sharia law, Islamification etc etc. These are very valid and have directly affected the Sikh community for the last 25 years. Many Sikh Families have suffered unspeakable hurt due to hard line islamic culture in UK. * Should Sikhs Support EDL? No, We should not align our selves with them, because as an overall outfit they contain fascist elements. Instead we should raise the points that we share with EDL on a separate platform as Sikhs alone. * UAF is a bogus group, full of hard-line Islamists, the same preachers who were at my uni preaching hate against Sikhs. These guys are proper scum, ex Al majaharoun, Real Khalifa lot. Now we got RSS types supporting them just because they think they are siding with the "good guys" for the sake of publicity. Our Sikh one band shows have done the same. * EDL have about 300 core members, rest are "fair weathered supporters". They marched around a few times and thrown a few bottles. I do not see them as a threat. But, those Sikhs that genuinely do, have every right to raise an anti-fascist campaign. But rather than siding with groups who have done, and potentially will do a lot more damage to the Panth, Stand with Sikhs alone. To me it shows an inferiority complexity within Sikhs, that any point made is not affirmed unless its backed by another faith group.

SarbahaPanjab - you hit the nail on the head - you stated the reason im an EDL supporter in your 1st line,as you may all know im very Anti Hindutva - and I would never ever side with UAF side which has all sorts,RSS,Islamics,Atheists and what not.Where as with the EDL the Sikhs stand out,as the bhamans will have no need to support and will not in mass numbers This condemnation is a joke 'Sikh Community' ha ha ha! Half the signatures are RSS & Congress supporters and Members,even the Mandirs have signed ,I want to ask the geeza who started this signtaure thing - you say its a declaration of being against EDL may i remind you - you missed out the Muslims,I aint seen one Islamic name of Mosque - just Mandirs,and Bhamans - the so called Sikh Community - the Hindus are the real leaders of the Sikh Community and you people have just proved it : ie; Verindra Sharma

I've said it before, the more you align yourself with UAF scum, RSS hindu scumbags like verindra pundit sharma the more you'll drive more sikh youth towards the EDL. It may surprise you to learn most Sikh youth have a clear definition and understanding of what issues are affecting the Panth Right now, parties and peoples hidden agendas, and publicity hungry self proclaimed leaders who love making statements in the papers or 5 mins on the radio. it totally shows an inferiority complexity within Sikhs, that any point made is not affirmed unless its backed by another faith group, or party. Sad

Woah, proper scary stuff man. masks and everything! I can only just see their eyes.

I will stick to my statement,as I believe that they are not BNP/C18. im not denying that these two nazi groups have joined the ranks of the EDL. I support the core leaders of the EDL Tommy and so on as they have spokent he truth,its better than siding with the Hindus as in the silly statement that has been released,since when have these Hindus come out in support of us when we have had needs or needed help NEVER,shame on the British Sikh Council - you fake Khalistanis

The national front NF now knwn as the BNP rioted in Southall not the EDL it did not exist during those times and had nothing to do with it ,neither did the leadership of EDL,half of whom were not even born.

Apart from SCAN in Slough , I've never seen press releases/statements from our community after 9/11, -Never seen press releases from our community after 7/7 - Never seen a press release afetr extremists burn the poppy, don't forget the wearing of the poppy also regnoises sikh soldiers who dies in the wars -Never seen press releases from our community after the many cases of conversions and the whole Mulsim Boy/Sikh girl thing (well apart from when the nawjawan stood up and said enough is enough and did a demo outside the police station in Birmignham) -Never seen a press relase whn a sikh boy gets battered by a gang of Muslims - Never seen press releases from our communtiy about the rise in militant islam in this country and the continued islamification of this country. -Never seen a press release when Sikhs have been mistaken for Mulsims and been attacked. Chello, just hope as a community we don't fall for all this 'being afraid to raise our voice against militant Islam' hAS I WRITE THIS, ITS COME ON THE NEWS THAT THERES BEEN A NUMBER OF ARRESTS OF EXTREMISTS BEING ABOUT TO CARRY OUT A TERROSIT ATTACK IN THE UK What about doing a press rlease condeming those who wish to terrosie our country and saying thanks to the law agencies for keeping us safe. DON'T GET INTO BED WITH MILITANT ISLAM - NEVER

1. Why is it called "turban campaign?" 2. on the Turban campaign site is says they stood with UAF on demo.. why? UAF are 2 faced lying scum What side shall we bat for? Muslims who groom our daughters and wanna kill kafirs or Skin head chavs with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon? How about None of them! Better time spent: Stopping Beadbi Supporting Shaheed Families Supporting Khalistan Or just have a nap you busy body, publicity hungry, bandwagon jathedars

•Sunny Singh, President, Sikh Society, Hertfordshire University •Gurdev Kaur, President, Sikh Society, Imperial College, London •Gulzar Singh Hanspal, Vice President, LSE Sikh-Punjab Society, London School of Economics •B. S. Virk, President, Sikh Society,University College London (UCL) •Jasdeep Singh, President, Sikh Society, Westminster University •Balvindar Singh, Vice President, British Sikh Council, U.K. •Umesh Sharma, Chairman, Hindu Temple Trust, Southall •Harsev Singh Bains, National Gen. Sec., Indian Workers Association ( G.B.) •Jaspal Singh Bhamra, Gen. Sec., Ramgarhia Sabha, Southall •Surinder Singh Purewal, Gen. Sec., Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Southall •Pyara Lal Sohi, President, Siri Guru Valmik Sabha, Southall •Harmander Singh, Principal Advisor, Sikhs In England (SIE) •Teja Singh, Gen. Sec., Sikh Missionary Society (U.K.) •Varinder Singh, Spokesperson, Turban Campaign •Sarswati Sharma, Cultural Sec., Vishwa Hindu Mandir, Southall •Balwindar Singh Rana, Spokesperson,Unite Against Fascism •Virendra Sharma, M.P. •R. Sansarpuri, Councillor, Hillingdon Leh lo Hindu Sikh Bhaichara ,go join the Hindus anyone reading this from Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall you Indian Govt agents ,You jokers You clowns, YOU CAN'T GET THE COUNCIL TO SHUT DOWN THE BOOKMAKERS OPENING ON TOP OF HAVELOCK ROAD WHICH WILL ATTRACT MUSLIM GANGS WHO ATTACK SIKHS IN SOUTHALL,yet a Mandir gets attacked and you lot release this press release ,Virendra Shamra MP Southall Overseas Congress Ex President,who smeared Sardar Gurcharan Singh who stood for MP and protrayed him as a terrorist supporter ,claimed Khalistanis were terrorists during Southalls elections and smeared Shaheed Beant Singh and Shaheed Satwant Singh at Southall General Elections in May,SHAME ON SINGH SABHAS CONGRESSI COMMITEE,Even during Himmat Sohi's Rule did a Indian High Commissioner come to our Gurdwara yet during your rule you opnely called him and other Congressi Thugs. Bhambra from Southall Ramgharia is also a hardcore Congressi,Anti Khalistani man at heart,die hard open Indira Supporter You leaders may release this but you don't speak for Southalls Sikh Youths I tell you that,you are not the people who face the attacks of Militant Islam.Jao Mandir'a di rakhi karo the same Congressi people that destroyed our Harmandar Sahib you are joining with them,you people make me sick Im not BNP Fan I have family who fought the BNP N/F National Front in Southall but EDL is not BNP neither is the leadership,they may have elements in their ranks but this was to be expected. You people FEAR Militant ISLAM like the Devil it is and the Hindus will use you to further their agenda.If anyone faces backlash after a terrorism attack it will be us Sikhs not the Bamans. and lol at British Sikh Council - You Claim Your Khalistanis yet you side with these Congressi's

While I may not support the racist elements which have been attracted to EDL I fully support Tommy Robinson and his leadership core group openly as a British Sikh,I oppose Militant Islam and Militan Hinduism in all its forms - Im a proud British Khalistani Sikh

i dont mean anything by it, its a joke.

I just came across a very good post, I hope you guys read it. 'To the average Sikh their weapons are mere religious symbols without edges. For a nation which was created for the purpose of military ex...ploits and warfare we have become a castrated community which looks for pity rather than becoming the soldiers that were created by the great warrior gurus. Every Sikh lives off the glory of past great warriors, who lived and died gloriously on the battlefield, there is no reason why we can't put the effort and time to achieve even 10% of wat they were. In recent years nihang niddar Singh has promoted shastarvidiya to the wider martial arts world who actually can appreciate the arts more than our community, which are too busy in gossiping and slandering Niddar Singh due to ideological differences. Those who have a real desire with sincerity to uphold the traditions laid down by our gurus will devote their lives in the worship of the sword in order to master it's use, the rest will just waste their lives in bad mouthing the name of someone who has sacrificed everything in order to keep this dying art alive. ' Akaal.

ena dimaag kithe tera :rolleyes:

i actually edited my post and i think I made a mistake saying that to u but i dnt knw why the word was filtered. I just said | D | O T :|

slipped my mind....waiting for the ref for that part in the book, why are you twisting things only five? who said im a part of the Niddar crew? never said I was....putting words into my mouth? Mods : you guys are letting this topic go futher? when its been discussed 2 years ago when the book actually came out!!! if this was a pro chatka or shastar vidiya topic it would have been shut within hours.....shows how biased you lot are.

I never said I agree or disagree, what I believe has nothing to do with you. Like I said still awaiting for the page ref. Mods close the topic, this is only causing tension when it isnt needed, there are more important things happening within the panth.

I think all you guys (both sides) are pathetic. How would Sant Ji feel knowing that his Khalsa panth is being divided in his name. Back in the day, the different Sikh Misls did not agree with each other on lots of things. Unlike us, they did not let this divide them and still respected each other because they shared the same Guru, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. Whenever the Panth faced an issue they would always come together in Sarbat Khalsa and UNITE to fight common enemies, AS ONE PANTH. If you want to celebrate Sant Ji's Shaheedi, good luck to you. If you want to celebrate Sant Ji's life, good luck to you. Edited . Negative comments on Dasam Granth deleted. Dasam Granth is bani of tenth master. One is not a sikh without it.---- The only thing that matters is "Guru Maneo Granth". Full Stop! Ive just got into Sikhi a short while ago and when I see you Khalsa's focusing on your divisions (which are 10%) and not focusing on your common beliefs (which are 90%) it's so disheartening. I hope Maharaj can do kirpa and unite our divided Panth.

Why must you ask questions which have been answered over and over again?! you just want to create trouble with Niddar Singh, just because he is out of the picture you want to bring him back into this bakwas.... If niddar singh was seen with a bag full of booze why didnt you take a picture???? a clear one at least? what scared? so you did it on the sly? if your such a soorma pull your camera/phone out and take a damn picture what are you scared off? seriously dont half of you have anything else better to do? point fingers at people? go sit down and read some bani get peace with yourselfs rather trying to make yourself's feel better by slandering other's. caveman out.