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Waheguru never discriminates who can become a Sikh or not. Only people and their silly politics do. Next time you hear someone say you cant be sikh cos you do not have uncut hair or you do not have right diet cos you eat meat or your dastaar is different shape to mine or your of a weird sect or jatha.... it is they who are not a Sikh they have become entranced in snobbery and egotism that Guru Ji has highlighted many a time.

If it's in their karam to become Sikhs, they will, and find ways of upholding Rehat. We change ourselves to become Sikhs, not change Sikhi to suit our circumstances.

I'm a supporter of neither the EDL or the extremist Muslims (an understatement if ever there was one) but you just know that as soon as our backs are turned, the white fellas are most probably taking the mick out of us. Sikhs are being used by the likes of the EDL - plain and simple. I sympthatise with the youth who consider the likes of the EDL as the only solution in the combat against Islamists in the UK, but aligning ourselves with the EDL just makes us look...well, wrong. It is a fractious issue and its a sorry state of affairs when our lads have to join forces with the EDL in order to be listened to.

None of the Guru's denounced Baba Sri Chand, but 6th Guru gave Baba Ji his son Gurditta to carry on the Udasi parchar. I guess southall youth knows more than 6th Guru. That is the problem with young sikhs today, they read one book and think they know everything.

:happy:

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

How old are you and do you have a job? Do you know how effeminate you sound? 'Oh please mr whitey, protect me from the big bad musis!' is how you sound. I live in an area full of muslims as do many other young sikhs I know. None of us are such suck ups or allow ourselves to become victims. You fools in Southall have always been asking for it since SP went belly up. My advice to you was in the previous post. You do know that the BNP are a broken political force? Democracy has failed for their aims. They've split into two groups of thought - those who want to set up pure white communities in parts of the uk that will become no-go-areas for non-whites; the others want to create more populist movements like the EDL. You do know that both sides laugh at sikhs? They laugh at how we always get up in arms for their beliefs whilst all they have to do is say a few words to gain our confidence and support. You are part of the problem, not the solution. Plays double games? Are you saying that hindustan is backing muslim extremism in the uk? lol. What do we sikhs have to lose? Southall?! Good riddance. How about you turn your brain on first. Have you ever considered siding with the Khalsa? You know the guys our ancestors were part of? The ones who laid down their lives on the fields of Sobroan and Gujrat in the hope sikhs wouldnt turn into people like you when they grew up? If they could see you now they would have probably not bothered, and I wouldnt blame them. Reichstag fire! Reichstag fire! lol Finally, you admit you dont have the brains to intelligently disect each side's motives and inner beliefs. Yet you have picked a side with your limited intellect. Judging by how pathetic and powerless you sound I think my dead grandmother would have a good chance of subduing the people in your little army of 'young sikhs'. Seriously though, to any youngsters who side with people like this guy, you are just making things worse for yourself. Get an education, get married and emigrate. England is one big slum, and southall is one of the worst parts. The edl will just use you and then dump you to one side afterwards. You have been warned.

yep, its from suraj parkash, and it also says that Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave thapia to Baba Sri Chand to continue Udasi method of Parchaar. And remember that in the tests of the Sikhs, only Bhai Lehna passed, but we are quick to remember that Baba Sri Chand failed, but also, Baba Budha Ji was one who didnt pass the test of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. What does this mean, that Baba Budha Ji turned his back on Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Absolutely not. And the same applies in Baba Sri Chand's case. The main problem is that Udasi's have fallen frome the great path shown to them by Guru Nanak Dev Ji. But having said that so has the Khalsa Panth. Udasi's (not all though) have gone back to idol worship etc, and that is their own stupidity but they are ignoring Guru Nanaks teachings. But this doesnt mean that Udasi Panth or Udasi Samprdaye is bad, or has no realtion with Sikh Panth, they are absolutlely an ang of Sikh panth.

I don't think many people are buying into your EDL crap Southall Youth? Maybe you should learn from that?

:sad:

fateh g stay away stay away please i beg u stay away ive seen what tarmala has done pm me if u want more info he is dangerous stay away stay away stay as far away as u can g

Hello, thankyou for your enquisitive enquires with regards to sikhi. By the very fact that you have been drawn to this sikh forum, this suggests that you still have many questions unanswered by your new faith. I am still learning, however i shall humbly attempt to answer your questions. I also look forward to fellow more learned forumers responses. God is everywhere and in everyone. i have taken a nice explanation from the following site: http://www.searchsikhism.com/nirgun.html Let’s begin with Nirgun and Sargun first. We (Sikhs) openly accept this concept to be true since every word of Gurbani is directly revealed from Waheguru. Therefore, Waheguru is Nirgun and Sargun. saragun niragun nira(n)kaar su(n)n samaadhhee aap || He possesses all qualities; He transcends all qualities; He is the Formless Lord. He Himself is in Primal Samaadhi. (Ang 290) niragun aap saragun bhee ouhee || He Himself is absolute and unrelated; He Himself is also involved and related. (Ang 287) raaj joban prabh thoo(n) dhhanee || thoo(n) niragun thoo(n) saragunee ||2|| O God, You are my power, authority and youth. You are absolute, without attributes, and also related, with the most sublime attributes. ||2|| (Ang 211) nira(n)kaar aakaar aap niragun saragun eaek || He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes. (Ang 250) There are many more quotes but the fact is that wherever Waheguru is mentioned as “Nirgun” word “Sargun” also appears. Both words appearing right after each other in the same line does not mean contradiction but a characteristic of Waheguru. Had the two words been separate one could raise doubts. Any rational person can see that since Guru Sahib mentioned both words together there must be hidden meanings to it. The problem with Muslims is that they do not understand why Waheguru is referred to as Sargun. To explain the concept in simple terms, we go to the beginning of time. First Waheguru was only Nirgun as there existed nothing but Him. Then He created the entire creation i.e. solar systems, galaxies, planets, life forms, humans etc. In other words, anything to everything originated from Waheguru. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Ang 1349) Guru Sahib taught that everyone came from the same source of light and it is the same light that pervades in the entire creation. While Waheguru has no particular form of His own, all forms originated from Him and therefore all forms belong to Him. Since Waheguru is omnipresent and all pervading nothing in the creation is without Him. Therefore, he is Sargun i.e. everything including all life forms and attributes belong to Him. He is the life of the soul in each and every soul; He permeates and pervades each and every heart. (Ang 1273) Thus, it is clear now that the word Sargun refers to creation of Waheguru. When in Gurbaani it says “He Himself is formless and also formed”, “creating Himself” or “fashioning Himself” it refers to creation because He is the creator and resides within the creation. It means that God Himself manifested Himself from His Nirgun (invisible) form, which forever existed, to his Sargun (visible) form. people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt. The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause|| (Ang 1349) This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen. By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord. (Ang 922) Guru Sahib saw Waheguru residing in every heart and in every form of creation. This is why He rejected empty rituals like hajj and facing a certain direction during prayers. God is not limited to one direction nor does He reside at one particular place. He is everywhere and everything belongs to Him. Now, it is clear that the word Sargun refers to the creation in which we can see and realize Waheguru and His wondrous miracles. Words “Nirankar” and “Ik Oankar” are not contradictory at all. Here is why: Nir (without) Akaar (form) – Waheguru is without any form. Ik (One) Oan (Brahm or God) Kar (without changes) – One God who has stayed the same, is the same and will always be the same. In other words, He doesn’t change over time. His powers, characteristics and existence are beyond time and forever and ever. Both words convey the same meanings. First word says that Waheguru is formless and has no particular form of His own. Second word means that He is One and has existed forever and does not change over time. He is One universal creator. Therefore, the contradiction does not exist. Muslims are simply confused or trying to find flaws in flawless path, Sikhi, which is an impossible feat. The moghul empire ultimately collapsed. Any empire built on murder, rape and forceful conversions will ultimately fail. Good will always prevail. Our paintings in gurdwaras depict our rich history, which are very proud of. They are not there to breed hatred within sikhs towards muslims. They are to remind us of our history, to remind us of the sacrifices our ancestors made. And they are to inspire us to become better human beings. Sikhism is a unique faith. If you live the sikh way of life this will become apparent. please read the folowig three links summary of distinctions http://www.searchsikhism.com/distinct.html Differences with hinduism http://www.searchsikhism.com/hinduism.html Differences with islam http://www.searchsikhism.com/islam.html <> siq nwmu krqw purKu inrBau inrvYru Akwl mUriq AjUnI sYBM gur pRswid ] ik oa(n)kaar sath naam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibha(n) gur prasaadh || One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~ ] jpu ] || jap || Chant And Meditate: Awid scu jugwid scu ] aadh sach jugaadh sach || True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages. hY BI scu nwnk hosI BI scu ]1] hai bhee sach naanak hosee bhee sach ||1|| True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ Ny 1 got Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Dasam Granth Maharaj Bani in PDF format or available on the computer? Thanks In Advance

The Kirpan is fundamental part and parcel of the khalsa uniform, it is the guru given right to bear arms in defence of the faith and fight oppression. So any government which dares to ban it is showing you that they are indulging in oppression against the human right of religious freedom and it is a sign all Sikhs should take seriously. It is high time for Sikhs to become politically active particularly the younger generation.

Thanks Bhenji for putting up what took place with your friend. I didn't want to ask, but it's best if more people find out about this cult and never think about sending their daughter or son to such people. This kind of stuff is way to common and happens in many other places.

Vaheguroo, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji Maharaj, Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyare!

I didn't pose that question to you because i want to disprove what you said, but just to ask where its coming from. In my view there was nothing wrong with Udasi, Nirmalas, etc before 1699 and if a person took these paths, they were/are apart of the Sikh Panth. We can go further into history and see all the bhagats that followed Sri Waheguru ji and became jeevan mukt. Today, and after 1699, I believe the order from Sri Waheguru ji was finalized and complete (Saint-soldier, the order existed before, but the world did not realize it. The Gurus had to come down and spread it). If we look at Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj teachinges, they are more related to pulling the yogi the person who left the world to come back and practice true dharma in the world (Sant side of Gurmat). Then we have Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, who took the Sant and the savage swordmen and transformed them into soldiers of true dharma (Gurmat). In this day and age a person that is aware of the Khalsa teaching, he must follow this final form. Whether that be Udasi, Nirmalas, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Christian, whatever they want to call themselves. Satguru didn't exclude anyone from his teachinges and Guru Sahib applied Gurbani to every human being on this world. Those that don't even know what the Khalsa is, for them its a different story. The Nirmalas, the Udasi and all these other people that are aware of the Khalsa teachinges and don't let go of their ways are fooling themselves to think that they are higher than the order of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and they can do whatever they want. Let's not kid ourselves and say Shabad Guru, Gurbani is just for the Sikhs. Shabad Guru doesn't have a certain personal limit, but it has a discipline attached to it, which was given to us from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. In my view Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj took two extreme paths (yogi and savage swordmen) that people of the old age were following and combined them as one to every man and woman to follow. These division only get created when the ego comes out in the person and they want to follow a certain person from the past. Nothing wrong with taking their teachings, but the final order came from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, who took Amrit himself and his teachinges are supreme than any other bhagat, Udasi, or Sant, etc, etc, that became jeevan mukt. In my view, thats what everyone must follow in todays day and age. And if Satguru comes down again to bless us with more teachinges then, we should accept them and not say I'm the Sikh of this so i don't have to follow this teaching of Sri Waheguru ji.

You and your wisdom! :D I'm going through a bit of a cynical phase at the moment. Hope it passes...:BL:

It's from the awesome "Sri Akaal Ustat", one of the first banis in Sri Dasam Granth.

If they were given access to information about Sikhi (history, teachings, etc) and they decided it was for them, I don't see why not. Although wouldn't the 'no meat' prohibition leave them a bit hungry, especially considering their natural environment and way of life?

We should not par take in either of these organisations EDL or UAF/MDF/Islamo-fascists Sikhs are sovereign people and should only be in organisations that promote Sikhism and stand up for Sikh rights. The British establishment and past government's has harmed Sikh interests since first contact in the 18th century, they conducted illegal wars with the Sikh empire then after annexing the Sikh homeland they recruited Sikhs in the British Indian Army. Using our forefathers manpower to fight for their freedom against nazi tyranny and what was the reward? partition of Sikh homeland and hardly any reference in history books for school kids of the UK to learn of the Sikh contribution to the war effort. There are many things I could list the injustices that Sikhs have had to put up with, but that doesn't mean we are not grateful to be part and parcel of British society or to be born into a land that used to be free and valued civil liberties, which are increasing under threat from the totalitarian authoritarian nature of UK governments since year 2000. Yes we should value and preserve englands history and heritage and traditions of our birth country but we should remember that the enemy of the british people are NOT muslims but the ideology that curbs your fundamental human rights (the right to privacy, right to freedom of speech, right to demonstrate.etc). If these rights are taken away then the people taking away these rights are the enemy of the people, be it islamo-fascists or the "political elite" fascists you can work out who they are yourselves.

Soldier, Your EDL propaganda machine desperately tried adding some super masala to this. Looks like the "great" leader of EDL thinks he had an object "thrown against the window " and thinks he saw a man who "appeared to be holding a shotgun." And he's even alive to tell the tall tale! http://www.bbc.co.uk...-herts-12305490 Attack on EDL man's Luton home probed Reports of an attack on the home of a leading English Defence League (EDL) member are being investigated by police in Bedfordshire. Officers were called to Kevin Carroll's home in Bolingbroke Road, Luton, late on Thursday after reports an object was thrown against the window of the house. Mr Carroll said he went to investigate and saw a man who appeared to be holding a shotgun. No shots were fired. Officers carried out a search of the area, but no offender was found. Police said they were trying to establish what happened and wanted to talk to anyone who saw anything suspicious.

this pothi is being translated into english it is currently in progress should be awsome once it is in english then a lot more sangat can benefit from it

@ singh559 thanks g i do too @ guest - this was in america right here in ny

LOL your statement didnt make any sense. We Sikhs don't celebrate Bandi Chor Diwas in celebration of Ram. You yourself stated the purpose for why we celebrate Diwali and yet you are criticizing it. You just totally contradicted yourself!

Sure if you ask the guru (read what is written in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) you will get the answer. Sikh and you shall find my friend if you want me to give you link to an english translation of SGGS Ji let me know

Peace and love anyone

Is that a translation or an opinion? Many Mahaan Gursikhs didn't pass the tests for Gurgaddi, but that doesn't mean we start insulting or disrespecting them. Ithaas tells us that Guru Nanak Sahib Ji's worldly family were shown the utmost respect by Guru ANgad Dev Ji up to Kalgidhar Pita Ji. This is Aarta, written by Baba Sri Chand Ji for Guru Sahib, it shows the prem they had: "Let us sing the praises of Nanak, King of kings of both worlds . The whole world is His temple, congregations sing sweet songs in His praise, Millions of goddesses kindle holy lights in His honor, All the gods sing psalms of His praises, All wash His lotus feet. The Sun and moon illuminate Him with their radiance, He is garlanded with mountains of flowers The True Master, the fountain of Light, is merciful to the poor, The king of the winds fans Him while saints and sages meditate on His holiness. The whole universe vibrates with His celestial song, The bells ring out - Onkar, Continuously illuminating the heavens He is one with God whose name is Truth, In Nanak saints find their support. Siri Chand, Nanak's son, declares Nanak is unattainable, unfathomable, unshakeable and pure. Whoever sings Emperor Nanak's praises resides in heaven and achieves complete salvation Oh kind master: give protection to those who seek your shelter. Oh Nanak: You are the savior we are just your children" Only5 - That post by Chatanga is from Suraj Parkash and other historical granths as well.

If God is everywhere, that means God is also in His creation. Correct? This means that the creation is also in God because it can't be in a place where God is not, for there is no such place. Yes, God is One, and we pray to the Creator, not the creation.

That is true, he is not giving his full thoughts on the topic of Satguru's human form departure, which was the main focus of the article, but he stuck in 300 slanderous remarks coming to the main focus and after that as well. I feel that this article was not created to provide a definite answer to the reader, but to fill the reader with ambiguity, so trust is lost by the reader in the Gursikhs that have wrote the sakhi down and faith in Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. Would a Gursikh really be biased when it comes to writing the History of his Satguru? I think when he calls Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj just a mortal, then his respect for Gursikhs that wrote about Maharaj is lost in his thirst for pleasing his atheist mind and cronies that endorse this foolish behavior.

Tejkaur, if you know something the sangat needs to know, then please post it here. I'm not saying we start slandering him. But if there is factual info that you have then please make it public. Not presenting it, only makes people more curious and drives them toward tarmala.

I think you do not have an good idea on what this whole slanderous article is saying . I recommend you focus on the first part of the article where I.J. Singh makes the slanderous remark of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj, by saying he is JUST a mortal who died and then you should think of the latter part, of the article, which contributes to this slanderous remark of his. Also he slanders Gursikhs to get his point across. This is more than just someone's opinion. It's a well crafted attack on the Khalsa Panth's history.

LOL @ the Muslim da'wah on this thread. It's like one of them has written a little handbook of questions that the rest simply cut and paste to save them from the painful process of thinking for themselves. Peacescent, Your questions have already been answered here: http://www.searchsikhism.com/articles.html I also suggest that you read the following websites which discuss the fallacies of Islam: www.faithfreedom.org http://considerationsofacanadianex-muslim.org/ www.islam-watch.org http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/ These are written by former Muslims who saw the true face of Islam and decided to leave. Regards, K.

"namastang" veer, from the little bit that I know, Akal Takht Maryada states that the recitation of Ragmala is upto the "asthanik maryada", i.e. maryada followed by a particular Gurdwara at a particular location, which makes it optional. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. Regarding Sampooran Rehras Sahib (which I myself follow ), that too is not prohibited by Akal Takht, although the Rehras Sahib they advocate is shorter. I feel you should take this issue with Akal Takht if you feel so strongly about it . As far as Amrit Sanchar is concerned, we all do agree that we take Amrit from Panj Piyaare, and we all have seen that for the most part it is in fact 1 piyara who administers it. If some jathebandis want all 5 piyaare to administer it, please tell me how is that wrong? I can only request you to not target (directly or indirectly) any insult towards any jathebandi whose beliefs may not be the same as yours. Daas has personally noted on several occasions how a particular jathebandi (you know which one ) has been condemned by you on more than one forum. Believe me brother, your words don't make even a small speck of difference to the jathebandi, or any of those GurSikhs who claim to be it's members , it only soils your rasna with nindya. That jathebandi, like all other Panthic jathebandis, is blessed to have loads of Gurmukh souls as part of it. It always has, it still does, and shall continue to in future as well . Those who don't find answers on that website as proper may feel free to not visit it. Regarding their stand on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee, I am sure veer VSingh will take it up with them. bhul chuk maaf

For a long time I have kept my mouth fairly shut when it comes to this website. But honestly, has anyone else noticed they blantly prmote darshan ragi, even though he speaks so much trash? As for there articles, they have a few questionable articles. Like all the fiction stories are about Sikhs having premartial sex and not really following Sikhi. There non-fiction articles are written to sound nice but if you read carefully they clearly disrespect many aspects of Sikhi.

Putting aside the disrespectful usage of 'Nanak' and 'Angad' (in a non-Gurbani context) is this fella suggesting that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's exploits were embellished over the years? This coming from a Sikh writer? My word.

I have remained quiet on this issue - but here goes The truth behind BSSF Founder gagan singh ... formed group to counter boss, then also made sikh tv to counter sikh channel.... Organised shaheed bhai talwinder singh babbar barsi by bssf - to stir controversy in smethwick - from advise from politicians in america harvinder singh sandhu barsi by bssf - again to stir controversy they do sant jee shaheedi smagam to stir controversy camps that happened by bssf at woolwich were not by bssf - they ust asked sangat to put logo on and then didnt do anything. They dont have part in the camps anymore.... as sangat want to stay clear of them BSSF/dal khalsa make sant jee shaheedi smagam and then at london provoke singhs into an argument. . Its sad, main sevadaar has lots of maya - can do anything, but comes into sikhi and goes straight into policits. making organisations, trying to do events etc etc. As a person there is no gurmat there. Its just about point scoring and acting on peoples emotions. The above is fact based. Support dal khalsa, panch pardani etc. Dont take offence, the above is fact based. Admin please keep this up

It's sad how when Sikhs were kicking off in the late 90s onwards, you didn't do anything then. Where were you hiding? I know you were old enough then. Now you think becoming white man's 'boy', blindly patriotic to England like a nationalist mug is some kind of solution/progress. It would be better if you just sat on your arse then do what you are doing mate. Shame on you. And if you can't answer the simple questions I asked in my last post, just own up to it.

Yes, I think your comments need to be critiqued because you are actually leading apnay down a very bad road. I'm not saying that you are doing it on purpose, it's probably down to lack of foresight on your part. I think you and the people you are with are actually making things worse. Plus you are ruining the reputation of SIkhs because the racist white media in this country just use people like you to create negative headlines involving the Sikh image. Plus, whilst you are critical of Muslims, you show sycophancy towards goray, and don't see how they cause so much trouble (here and abroad). It's like you are blindly loyal to them? I think it's great sullay are protesting against British soldiers engaging in pseudo-imperialist wars by the way. Plus I think western nations are just as bad as any sullay you can mention when it comes to attacking foreign countries and destablising them. In case your ignorant to it, they managed to destroy Sikh sovereignty too in the past. You don't seem like the type of guy who can see subtle differences to me? You seem like someone who just sees a 'sullah threat' but doesn't recognise that some Iraqi fighting western soldiers in say Basra may be more patriotically motivated than religiously. You also don't see how goray do EXACTLY what you are complaining that sullay are doing, by going into foreign countries and trying to foist their own western ideas of democracy, proportional representation on them, usually using this as some cover whilst they steal resources like oil. You might be an okay guy, but you are in over your head here. Let more clever people deal with the situation.

Are singhs on here for real? SIkhs joining the edl or even giving passive support is one of the dumbest things i have seen. Are you defending english values? Like the right to be racist? Invade foreign countries for no reason? Assault asian schoolgirls? Scream at tourists for not speaking english in london? Act like being born white makes you better than the rest of those born here? Rewrite history to make others seem inferior when in truth they were just as civilized as the english? Get your heads out of your backsides. Do you see any khalistani flags at the demos? NO! Just hindustani ones. English sikhs are the laughing stock of the world. UAF are no better, just a bunch of lefty scum. The left in this country has never done anything for sikhs. But then again neither has the right. Turns out no gives a damn about us. Surprise, surprise. Not. Now if you dont mind I'm off to torch a Ford Capri parked on the corner of my street. ;D

Is that the only reason you are here? To sell the EDL to us?

Before the usual suspects get on my back, or my posts are deleted. Look beyond the media and do your own research. I’ve been to over 10 demos and meets and not had any trouble and if anything have been treated with the utmost respect. The only trouble I had was from a group of black lads who due to the media thought the ‘kkk’ were in town, lol, the klu Klux klan have never even had a ‘branch’ in the UK Yes, I am not naïve to think racists wont try to attach themselves to this movement, but it’s upto the leaders to influence what direction it moves in, and IMHO the leaders/promeninet members including a number of Sikhs are trying to keep the focus on militant Islam and if anything bring about mutual understanding and awareness between different communities in our country.

Turban campaign does not speak for me or the Panth

Neo Nazis - Video against the EDL - I rest my case Nazis burn EDL flag

Only 5. You don't know what you're talking about man. How can you diss the monk for making a qurbani for his faith? Plus we have precedents in our older and more modern itihass with Bibi Anup Kaur and Fateh Singh anyway. If you must get worked up and fight with other apnay over stuff, do it over something worthwhile dude. That's one angry Canuck brother.....someone over there, give him a hug man..... And please tell us how old you are if you don't mind. I've got a feeling you are a teenager?

Sikhi isnt as black and white as people like to have it these days.... what brother Five is unable to understand is that during the times of our shaheeds, the oppression and tyranny was in the form of a government which physically imposed their the death. In the case of this monk it was again the Government of the time which caused a situation aroun the Monks death tyrannous, dont forget most of our shaheeds if not all had options, the option to convert and avoid death but no they "chose" death rather than converting. Transpose that very idea to this Monks situation, didnt the monk also "choose" deatht than to carry on taking the abuse the Diem regime imposed on southern vietnamese monks? Fair enough there was no jalaad there but his situation was the jalaad. He knew that in his self immolation the world would rise up and bring an end to the oppression of Buddhists, which it did. Therefore his act is not suicide. If his self immolation was for the betterment of his qaum then he is a shaheed. Suicide by your definition is "willingly giving yp your life" , didnt Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji Maharaj "willingly give up his life" for Hindus? Maharaj's shaheedi is mahaaan param mahaan, no one can compare anyones shaheedi to our Satgurus as they are Gods incarnated light on earth. But to belittle a shaheed such as this monk is ghor paap. SUICIDE IS WHEN A PERSON LOOSES ALL HOPE AND REFUSES TO GO ON, BECAUSE HE/SHE HASNT THE MENTAL OR PHYSICAL STRENGTH. THIS MONK DIDNT LOOSE HOPE INFACT HE HAD HOPE, HOPE IN THAT HIS "SACRIFICE" WILL BRING ABOUT CHANGE. THIS MONK HAD THE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL STRENGTH TO GO AHEAD WITH THE ACT WHEREAS MOST PEOPLE WOULD TAKE EASY ROUTE SUCH AS SLEEPING PILL OVERDOSE ETC TO INDUCE AND EASY PAINLESS DEATH.

Absolutely. So any inuit who wishes to become a Sikh, must do ardasa that global warming completely destroys the ice-cap, so that lush green fertile fields will replace the ice, so he can plough the land to grow wheat. And save himself. or move to panjab. But what about the thousands and thousands of millions of inuits that passed before him, why didnt God give thenm a chance to save themselves, by at least giving one field for them to grow wheat to feed themselves, without having to go the hell? Actually, we could apply this to some places in africa as well.

Veera, read up on our history before saying stuff you may regret later. Gurbani tells us that even the dust from a true Sant's feet is blessed, that the ground on which Guru Ji walked is dhan-dhan. Sri Chand Ji was Guru Ji's son, how does that compare to dust from Guru Ji's feet?! Gurbani also says that past and future generations of a Bhramgyanis family go straight to Sachkhand - that's for Bhramgyanis, imagine what kind of blessed soul has Guru Ji as their dad! It isn't Sri Chand Ji's fault that people have made idols representing him etc.