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  2. Bhakti

    Very nice post.
  3. Where in his Bani or his writings does Guru Gobind Singh give any indication of having that motive for helping Bahadur shah? You should not impose your own motives/agenda on Guru Sahib and assume that you speak for him, particularly when there is zero scriptural evidence for your position. Neither is there any historical evidence that I'm aware of - the histories say that Guru Sahib's motivation for allying with him was the condition that non-Muslims would be treated fairly under his regime. So, I ask you, how do you know that was Guru Sahib's motive for helping Bahadur Shah?
  4. The Dogras were the most immediate cause of the empire's downfall, but the fundamental cause for the collapse of the Sikh Kingdom was Ranjit Singh's fatal decision to make himself king of the Sikhs and replace the Khalsa's republicanism (Sarbat Khalsa, Gurmatta, Jathedari) with a system of absolutist monarchy which centralized all power in his hands - this had no place in a 'Sikh' nation. His miscalculation ensured that the kingdom would all but fall apart his death and be vulnerable to vultures, particularly in light of the uselessness of his heirs. I disagree veerji. This Sikh kingdom would never have become as powerful as it did if not for non-Sikhs. The Sikh Empire was so successful while Ranjit Singh was alive precisely because he managed to integrate and secure the loyalty of the Punjabi musalman who constituted most of his subjects - and thereby ensured economic productivity and public order. The Khalsa army of the Lahore durbar was also not just made up of Sikhs - all cavalry were Sikh, but virtually the whole of the artillery was Muslim, as was a significant portion of the infantry of the regular army (included Pathans, Punjabi Muslims and Gurkhas). Secondly if not for the induction of non-Sikh European officers into the Sikh army, it would never have relinquished its fixation with irregular cavalry or its revulsion at the idea of infantry. Without the innovations of these non-Sikhs, therefore, the Fauj would never have advanced to first rank among the armies of Asia. An army composed entirely of cavalry is fine when you're fighting a guerilla war, not so much when you're building and defending an empire against men with guns and artillery. Furthermore not all non-Sikhs in the kingdom were disloyal to the durbar, and not all Sikhs were loyal. The Muslims of Punjab routinely resisted the calls of the Afghans (and later, the mutineers of 1857) to join them in jihad against the infidel Sikhs. The Fakir brothers (Muslims) were loyal to Ranjit Singh's memory to the last, as were several of the other Hindu Dogra generals of the Khalsa army (Dogras are a race, not a family. It was one family of Dogras in particular which caused most of the trouble). And while there were good, loyal Sikh nobles such as the Attariwalas and the Nakkais, there were many more who were fickle and treacherous. Rani Jindaan was notoriously corrupt , as were the Sandhawalias, who murdered Sher Singh, the only successor of Ranjit Singh with even a shred of competence, by blowing him to pieces with a shotgun. I think your stance is way too absolute bro. An empire is by definition multicultural and cosmopolitan. The Vatican is not the most apt comparison here (It is a country in name only).
  5. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    The passage reads: Vol I, Life of Guru Nanak, p51
  6. Bhakti

    This is indeed a good post.
  7. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Brother SeekingSikhi, do not know much, but certainly can tell you, being away from Wahiguru is a hell by itself. Secondly, there is no permanent hell nor heaven as per the thought of eternity in some religions, simply because our souls are of the same nature of Wahiguru, they can not remain permanently away from Him, whether in the hells or heavens. The day, the moment He decides to clear up this His huge play, where shall the souls go? Naturally back and merge in Him. But as we do not know, when will that be, not tomorrow nor 100 years later, so it is better that we by ourselves, we workout the bhakti as per Gurbani and seek His kirpa, in order to merge back in Him, as soon as possible in this very life. No one becomes a doctor after dying, in a similar way we have to start our journey of returning back right now, for after death we are bound by our karmas, thus caught up strongly in the endless wheel of births and deaths. God bless you.
  8. Bhakti

    There is a time when a Sikh reaches a point of recognizing Naam around him. This point teaches many lessons. We with the will of the Guru can see the Naam in plants, animals, trees, dirt and rocks. The Gurus given eyes provide us the ability to see how a tree can illuminate Gurus knowledge. However we fail to see the Gurus knowledge spoken by those who don't fit a image of a person who should be speaking of the Guru. For example a person who drinks and can even be a person who gets drunk most Fridays. But one day she or he speaks something she learned from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Many of us will discount what she says because of her look and/or because of her drinking alcohol. However there is Naam coming from that girls voice. The message is Gurmat even though the person delivering it is filled with mistakes. This has nothing to do with letting manmat people speak from the Gurus stage. This has everything to do with being in society on a daily basis. A person beginning to learn Sikhi won't be able to recognize what is Gurmat (Naam) from the persons speech. So in no way is this post for them and will only cause you to drift away from the Guru. This is for a select few stuck in the black and white of recognizing Naam. Gurbani says Naam is everywhere.....recognize it and you will be uplifted from misery. Recognizing this Naam in the speech of a manmat comes from devoting yourself to the Guru. In return Guru Sahib softens the heart to see the Naam. The Gurus compassion shows the way. Many Sikhs today enforce the rule of make an honest living as the highest and most important way to Vaheguru. Then they place doing charity work and last if time permits doing simran of Vaheguru. Let me provide you with an example I learned from society emitting Naam. A dog makes an honest living by going out and collecting food for itself and its young. If another animal attacks the pack of dogs the dogs collectively do seva by protecting the weak. The dog makes an honest living and does seva. According to some Sikhs these two are the most important. Then why hasn't the dog achieved mukti???? The dog can't achieve mukhti because it can't do simran of Vaheguru. Simran is the most important. Look at a tree. Standing to provide shade to the animals and people. It makes a honest living and shares in the wealth by letting other animals eat its roots as food and lets surrounding trees use its strong roots for their nourishment needs by joining together. Again the tree does not attain mukhti. Why not????? Naam is all around us. We need to develop the Gurus eyes and ears to learn from the Gurus.
  9. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    I totally managed to overlook question number 4. Apologies. You can find the pdf version here: http://www.vidhia.com/Max Arthur Macualiffe/Sikh_Religion_Vol_1.pdf The quote in question occurs on pg 145.
  10. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Good to know your getting satisfied with some answers. Hell and Heaven are less like special realms, but more of extra realms, as there's millions of them.
  11. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Well, I guess you answered my questions #1-3, but not #4, so go ahead and do that, please. It seems that you do accept the idea of punishment to the extent of the crime, which seems fine to me. Just like you were upset, I would be upset if there were no punishment for the evil deeds that people commit. I think that some people take the idea of a "loving God" too far, and think that they should be able to do whatever they want to do, and have no consequences. I don't think you are saying that, though. As far as Hell, it seems it depends how you define it. I guess you thought "hell" mean "eternal hell". I would think hell is a place that you get punishment; the length of the punishment is up to God in regards to your misdeeds. As for your question regarding the possibility of redemption for people in hell, yes, the Sikh scriptures do speak to that. First of all, there is a hell in which sinners are thrown: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥ ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀ ਸੁ ਅਉਖਾ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇਆ ॥ One who slanders the Perfect True Guru, shall have difficulty in this world. 14148 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੯ ਪੰ. ੧੦ p 309 ਨਰਕ ਘੋਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਖੂਹੁ ਹੈ ਓਥੈ ਪਕੜਿ ਓਹੁ ਢੋਇਆ ॥ He is caught and thrown into the most horrible hell, the well of pain and suffering. ਕੂਕ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਕੋ ਨ ਸੁਣੇ ਓਹੁ ਅਉਖਾ ਹੋਇ ਹੋਇ ਰੋਇਆ ॥ No one listens to his shrieks and cries; he cries out in pain and misery. ਓਨਿ ਹਲਤੁ ਪਲਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਲਾਹਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਸਭੁ ਖੋਇਆ ॥ He totally loses this world and the next; he has lost all of his investment and profit. ਓਹੁ ਤੇਲੀ ਸੰਦਾ ਬਲਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਜੋਇਆ ॥ He is like the ox at the oil-press; each morning when he rises, God places the yoke upon him. However, there is the possibility of redemption: ਜੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਹੁ ਆਵੈ ਤਾ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਅਉਗਣ ਬਖਸਿ ਲਇਆ ॥ But if he should come again to the Sanctuary of the Guru, then even his past sins shall be forgiven. ਗਉੜੀ ਵਾਰ¹ (ਮਃ ੪) (੧੩) ਸ. (੪) ੨:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੭ ਪੰ. ੯ p307 So, yes, I think that Sikhism does envision the kind of thing you're talking about (temporary punishment leading to cleansing and then forgiveness).
  12. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    As to your first point, I just want to clarify that I'm not concerned with getting some kind of reward. Living the guru's hukam with as little humai as I can manage is absolutely reward enough. I don't ask out of selfish reasons, but rather to ensure my understanding is at its best. Your second point is spot on. Thank you for your input!
  13. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    The goal for a Sikh isn't whether they get rewarded or not, but rather on serving Guru Sahib with the best you can. Now I don't really believe in any religion other than Sikhi, but there is s teaching in the Bible similar to that in loving Jesus with all one can do regardless. If you asked me, there is no hell in the world that can equate to not knowing Guru Sahib, and no punishment can amount to anything if Guru Sahib saves you. It doesn't matter if there is a physical or material hell or heaven, all we can do is help another being through Sewa. Also contrary to popular belief Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has existed since the beginning of time, before 1469.
  14. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Yes, but there's being stuck in the cycle of death and rebirth, stuck with a heart and mind that only knows and craves Maya; and then there's a life of eternal torment for not being a Sant. It's possible my christian upbringing has me fixated on the idea of a different geographic location that only exists for the sole purpose of torturing sinners.
  15. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Only liberation of the soul is eternal. Heaven and Hell would only be temporary. Though even if temporary meant lifetime, that's a very long time.
  16. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    I've never read Macauliffe's book, nor have I heard of this quote; however, what Gurbani says time and again is that Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only way to Vaheguru.
  17. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    I've always worked under the impression (even before finding Sikhi) that our deeds inform our next life, not that you get one chance to do things right and if you don't - sorry. Torment for eternity. Such would seem to fly in the face of a loving Waheguru. Now, if there were some evidence for something of a temporary hell where your sins are cleansed but then your soul is reborn (like a smelter's forge removing impurities from metal), I might could reconcile that with my understanding of God. But eternal torture? Doesn't make sense with a loving God. Even Hitler, in another life, could find the guru. If I don't believe it true for everyone, how can I believe it true for anyone?
  18. Questions from an ignorant manmukh, vol.1

    Welcome. I would like to ask: 1. Why would it bother you if there were a hell? 2. Do you think people should or should not receive punishment for their deeds? 3. If yes (or even if no), do you think Adolf Hitler should receive residence in paradise in exchange for killing 11 million people? 4. What was the exact passage from Macauliffe's book?
  19. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh I am a 31 year old white male living north of Houston, TX with my wife and two young children. I recently became aware of Sikhi, and found an immediate and intense resonance with the words of the guru. I have been watching numerous videos from BoS and NanakNaam, and recently began reading Max Arthur Macauliffe's The Sikh Religion. While reading, I came across a passage that, frankly, upset me. I had been working under the impression that in Sikhi there is no literal hell, yet in this book Macauliffe suggests that not only might that notion be wrong, but that Guru Nanak Dev Ji has even said that "the hindus are going to hell". Maybe it's my being raised in the christian church, but that seems like quite a statement. The way I see it there are four options. 1 - I'm wrong and sikhs do believe in hell. 2 - Guru Nanak is referring to a maya-based hell on earth. 3 - The Guru changes this philosophy later, and had I kept reading I would've come to that part. 4 - This isn't a very good book about Sikhi. I look forward to using this community to deepen my understanding of the guru, and finally find some sangat.
  20. Bahadur Shah is proof that these enemies should never be trusted, Guru Sahib decided to help him because he knew he could teach a lesson to the Sikhs in the future. Remember what they did when Banda Singh Bahadur was fighting for the rights of an independent Punjab. When Put Buddhu Shah would help Guru Sahib, Autangzeb would make them into Shaheeds calling him false Muslim. Also even if hypothetical the message was forgiveness, there is no one like Guru Sahib, no Mahapurukh, saints, royalty, nobles, or anyone else can even equal Guru Sahib's shoes. The kingdom of Ranjit Singh fell because of the Dogras, and other Non-Sikhs. Multiculturalism is not the answer to our problems, a Sikh nation must serve Sikh interests support worldwide, not just Punjabi-interests: the Vatican is a tiny country; however, nobody would dare touch it, because they understand in the Vatican, that Multi-faith is not the answer, (will except the current Pope, but he must really hate the established Church).
  21. Sikhs need to wise up & realise the world ain't all lovey dovey.... Muslims especially will never have the best interests of sikhs or any non Muslims at heart.... it goes against their beliefs... it's a part of their religion to wage jihad against all kafirs. If the sangat, like me is not happy with Khalsa Aid spending money on helping Muslims then the solution is simple.... stop your donations! In my opinion Ravi Singh has become a fame chaser... helping sikhs in Punjab only draws limited attention if any..... going to places that are all over the news etc has bought him attention from the BBC & other media outlets.... he knows what he's doing... jumping on the bandwagon of media 'hot' incidents to get more exposure
  22. Very true, Sikhs need to read their actual history rather than imbibing Indian Government propaganda which endlessly regurgitates the trope that Sikhs are the predestined enemies of Musalman. Puraatan Sikhs and Maharaj themselves did not keep grudges forever and ever. Jahangir was ultimately responsible for the execution of Guru Arjan Dev, and yet he and Guru Hargobind Sahib eventually became friends. Guru Tegh Bahadur was executed by Aurangzeb, Guru Gobind Singh Ji could've embarked upon some blood feud against all Musalman and the entire Mughal dynasty after this but he actually supported Bahadur Shah's bid to become emperor. The Sikh Misls also formed periodic alliances with the Afghans, who had earlier wronged them on so many occasions. You are right, Sikhs are not and must never become the enemies of Hindus or the enemies of Muslims, this is a perversion of Dashmesh Pitaa's vision for us. We are supposed to be the enemies of the oppressors, that is all. I agree. But when has any group of our meager size ever risen to prominence without allies? Sikh Raj didn't just fall out of the Sikhs' rear ends, it's emergence was enabled by the constant shifting of alliances which Johnny has alluded to - sometimes with Marathas, sometimes with Kashmiris, sometimes with Rohillas and sometimes with Afghans. There aren't enough of us for us to go it alone, not yet anyway I hope.
  23. One of the top reasons for the muslim prison population was for drugs but wonder if the grooming cases has usurped that? If the authorities pulled their finger out and detained all those returnee "tourists" from Iraq and Syria, the muslim prison population would "explode" (pardon the pun).
  24. Will maharaj listen to me

    Maharaj will listen and answer even the smallest questions one may have, Listen to the Hukamnama and live in accordance to it, no matter how easy or difficult.
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